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 Elven High Magic: Flawed or Troped?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2017 :  00:36:09  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


The drow were not only denied sunlight - something intrinsic to elven nature (they derive sustenance from it) - but they had to resort to CANNIBALISM those first few years. Its right in 2e's Drow of the Underdark.



You make that sound like a bad thing. Have you ever HAD drow forearm baked in butter and mushrooms? Magnifique!

Well, after seeing some of the drow art, I might consider taking a nibble...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Mar 2017 00:39:42
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2376 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2017 :  21:17:37  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley


Your DOGMA HAMMER again?

Me no take the candle.
quote:
Elven High Magic elf-only...Elminster and others who took part in creating at least one Mythal?

It's a "wizardly" mythal, not High Magic one. And even HM mythals allow participation of non-elves, simply because secondary casters don't need to be High Mages:
quote:
this third ring of nine people often
consists of those three High Mages with six high-level wizards
or High Mage initiates (if not full High Mages)
. Only the central
four High Mages are actually casting the mythal; the outer
nine are secondary casters adding powers to the mythal and
energy to the link between all casters.
[...]
While many elves deny this fact, nonelves can be part of
this ritual too. They can occupy a position in any ring outside
of the primary casters, and N'Tel'Quess mages could even
contribute secondary powers to a mythal. This is one of very
few ways a N'Tel'Quess can experience what it means to be
an elf.
[...]
Due to a High Magic
backlash centuries before, Mythanthor was stripped of some
power and reduced to wizardly magic forevermore. Since
that time, he sought to duplicate some of his former High
Magics by wizardly means, including this greatest of feats.
- Cormanthyr


Which explains a lot, of course.
quote:
Is there anything saying how exactly was the tidal weave summoned by elves of Chondalwood?
Just that it was High Magic, and in the Year of Furious Waves (-255 DR).
And that it also flushed Coryselmal and buried everything around it.
There don't seem to be any disagreements in lore on this event - e.g. here.

quote:
Is there any explanation of this island fenomenon?

Yup.
quote:
This special area of magic, called a faith-magic zone, is
said to be a special gift to Silvanus from the goddess Mys-
tra. While the reasons behind such a gift are shrouded in
legend—ranging from a favor for Silvanus aiding Mystra
in a long-ago battle against Bane to a reward to Silvanus
for teaching Mystra how magic can be used to help the
land—the fact that it remains to this day is not in ques-
tion. All attempts to dispel or negate the effects, even
temporarily, have proven utterly ineffective.
- Vilhon Reach

Which is the only way it could make sense. Because if it was not agreed upon by Mystra, a large Weave anomaly usually is something that should be repaired. And if it wasn't a priority before, once she noticed the locals stumbled upon a bright idea of doing in wizards and Harpers with impunity, it would probably end in a visit of some Chosen, invisible (since they are not affected by such things too much) and without prior notice, to quietly fix the problem and leave this to be discovered the hard way.
quote:
Descent was explicitly said to be work of the Seldarine who answered prayers of elven priests. There was a mention of great elven ritual but first it was a plea to the gods.

Well, yeah.
Not that this really says much. Even if it wasn't divinely inspired, they'd be fools not to check with their gods before doing something on such a scale, if only because gods may have other plans and there's always possibility of ugly side effects. Those Nikerymath (Chondalwood) folk apparently forgot to ask, and they accidentally a whole Elven empire. And perhaps won't want sole responsibility for something so horrible, even if it didn't misfire. Because, well...
quote:
Theoretically, this ritual could allow an elf to be trans-
formed into a human or a dwarf (or other race), but no
High Mage has ever dared to attempt such, nor have any
volunteers been solicited to make such a sacrifice. In over
ten millennia, this ritual has been used only five times to
change a surface elf to a drow elf for the purpose of infil-
tration (twice) or banishment (thrice), so it is impossible
that any elf would condone the change to a N'Tel'Quess
except as the most extreme punishment.
- Cormanthyr


quote:
Elven High Magic is definitel unique but not in that it relies on elven magical status but because they sacrifice somobody most of the time.

That may be in part their sense of drama ("I lived for a long, long time, and not all my really cool deeds are even remembered. Hmm. Maybe going out with a bang for the good of People is a good way to go."), and in part inherent risks of this pastime, especially after Netheril.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe

Czech Republic
605 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2017 :  12:19:51  Show Profile  Visit Wrigley's Homepage Send Wrigley a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@TBeholder - thanks for more lore to the discussion.
I have been baffled as I have not delved into high magic itself so much until now and it seems that only wizards can become high mages. I had thought (probably read it somewhere) that main use of high magic was a divine one...can somebody clarify it?

So there is no explanation of how Ilighon came to be this way so my theory is plausible.

BTW in Magic of Faerun p.13 there is a confirmation by divination that Dark Disaster was called by elves (not directly saying Arivandaar)
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 04 Apr 2017 :  19:57:33  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Magic, whatever form it takes, is never perfect, and it's all how the wielder uses it. Elven high magic is a very powerful form of magic, but the more powerful forces you deal with, the more you can accomplish...and the more you can destroy. There is less room for mistakes, and things can go wrong if you aren't careful. The elves could do great things with their magic, but they also can cause great destruction. I think it's also a matter of things keeping themselves in balance (create something, something else may be destroyed, for example).

In certain instances, it was the hubris of the high elven mages. I love elves, but they can be an arrogant people, particularly the sun elves.

Sweet water and light laughter
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2376 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  09:35:37  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Magic, whatever form it takes, is never perfect, and it's all how the wielder uses it.

Or in 6 letters: PEBCAK.

But then, they know it's not the answer to everything, too.
Which leads us to a more interesting problem: whether and how the existence and peculiar properties of High Magic could have affected the views of its wielders, and then by extension other elves, to better and/or worse.
And perhaps this could be one of the factors that subtly crippled them?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 05 Apr 2017 :  16:27:40  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's clear that high elven magic is a very potent form of magic, and while the elves were equipped to use it (thus the name elven high magic), I don't think even they fully understood it's powers, which could be one of the reasons it went out of control in events like the first Sundering.

Sweet water and light laughter
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