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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 03:34:52
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I haven't had much experience playing gnomes as a DM or a PC. I have only used a few gnome NPCs. They seem to be the "forgotten race" of the Realms.
Well now due to a random encounter, my party has been captured by rock gnomes and taken to their village.
The village is a series of burrows and warrens, with some above ground pastures and orchards/field.
All are shrouded by powerful illusion magic. Our elf wizard (Olin Gisir), happened to roll a natural 20 and was able to see that something wasn't right near a pasture. He then cast dispel magic and suppressed a small area of the illusion, uncovering a rock fence, pasture and sheep (in the middle of nowhere).
The party then rode on through and on contact with the illusion, all was revealed.
Party was quickly spotted and a few gnome outriders surrounded and disarmed the PCs. Our hobgoblin scout ran away and they chased after him (he isn't evil he was raised among humans).
The gnomes blindfolded the party and took them into the warrens, where they were locked in store rooms (a small village wouldn't have a dungeon I wouldn't think). They don't even have much for warriors.
The party was brought before the council of elders. They have no clue what to do with a dwarf cleric of Moradin, elf wizard, a huge human fighter (6'4" 225 lbs), half-elf cleric of Chauntea.
I still haven't decided how to handle what they would do with the hobgoblin scout.
No one speaks Gnomish.
The wizard has a feychild necklace and had some high diplomacy rolls (30+). He's convinced them that we aren't a threat and simply in search of a crypt (Crypt of Carthagax the Reaver).
The gnomes know where the crypt is, and one of their children disappeared near it, but this is a matter of great shame to them, as leaving the hidden village and exploring is very shameful in gnome culture. They will not ask for help.
My problem is I don't really know much about gnomes or gnome society. I'm trying to play them as frankly confused about what to do with this strange group, stout folk, fair folk, "big folk", and a hobgoblin.
I know they would rather hide than fight so I don't see them actually harming the hobgoblin. But now the group knows where their village is (not that it's easy to find).
I know they are mostly craftsman, and few warriors. Most everyone practices an art of some kind. I imagine them having a small contingent of Wardens to keep them safe.
The elders have invited the party to a community banquet in the main common area. I imagine they would have things like sausages, mutton, possibly fungus, and some root vegetables.
I'd like to have the party interact with some of the populace, so I asked them to think of some items they could trade. I figured gnomes so isolated would be interested in trading?
I'm not sure. Would they be shy? Suspicious? Curious? Angry at this intrusion? Indifferent?
I am playing the children and curious, mischievous, and using their innate spell like abilities to play pranks on the PCs, and each other.
Any ideas? Would gnomes be open to bartering with strangers?
IMPORTANT: What sorts of items would they trade to the PCs? I want it to feel unique to gnomes and not just the usual.
Any help is appreciated. Sorry for the long post.
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Ari
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 05:43:48
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I dunno about your campaign but in general gnomes are like the hyperactive and excessively curious cousins to halflings. They take an almost manic delight in life and activity and accomplishing and making and rarely if ever sit still.
They would want to know everything about the PCs. Everything. As for trade items, small but very useful magic baubles, intricate art, exquisite small arms and maps of exacting precision might be found. They would probably fight over their relative skill with the PCs caught in the middle. The kids would be utterly impossible to deal with by non-gnomes.
How does that sound? |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 05:58:33
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Races of Faerun has some good info on gnomes. There was also a Forging the Realms article called "Melve's Way" which also went into how they fit into larger society quiet well - I think those articles are still accessible through the efforts of Delwa, and are available through his sig. If you wanted to run with some gnomish themes you could have their village be a waypoint on the Trail of Mists, that was mentioned in Mintiper's Chapbook.
I think them having an interest in trading makes sense - they would be interested in any curiosities the group travelled with them, and might be interested in finding out how their gear works. As far as stuff the gnomes could trade, you might consider giving them some smokepowder or intricately carved gems. |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 14:55:52
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Ari, nice yes the children are essentially running wild. Most have never seen another race.
Kanzen, yes I should read those thank you. Do you know where that article may be found?
How do we think they would handle a hobgoblin? He isn't evil, he's a follower of Shaundakul, but he is quite savage by most standards...soft hearted by goblin standards. He's wild, anti-social, and feral but not evil and he is a protector of the weak. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 16:49:23
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I run them as a cross between a halfling and a dwarf... because thats what I think they are.
As a race, there are different sub-groups. I think brownies are related to gnomes, and thus 'forest gnomes' are much more fey-like in their outlook and culture.
Deep Gnomes (Sirfneblin) are like classic German Kobolds (NOT D&D kobolds - I HATE that they use that name for a dog-faced reptile), and are very much almost exactly like dwarves, but much more xenophobic and maudlin.
But the gnomes we are most familiar with - 'Rock Gnomes' (or as I think of them, 'city gnomes') - I run them a lot like the goblins from Harry Potter. Methodical thinkers (and misers) who have taken to using machinery (steampunk-esque tech) to get a lot of things done, over magic. Their penchant for illusion magic comes from their natural deceptiveness. Through the thousands of years of interaction with other races, these gnomes have learned to 'put on' a friendly face... but its just an act. When you deal with a pack of happy-go-lucky gnomes and then turn to walk away, had you just turned around quickly enough, you may have caught them giving each other sly grins in an evil-lookng, clandestine way.
A lot of how I picture gnomes comes from the computer game Arcanum: Of Steampworks and Magick Obscura. Before that game, I never really thought much about gnomes, and tended to never use them IMGs. In that game, most everyone thought gnomes were just 'friendly little fellows' and shrewd businessmen. However, right form the beginning, you see hints of a 'dark side' - human 'trophy wives' and enslaved half-ogre servants. Later in the game you learn some of the horrific truth - they force-breed their slaves from human female and ogre stock on an island. After playing that game, I decided the only way I wanted gnomes in my games was if they were like that (far more interesting than the canon version).
So basically, they use their small size to fool people into thinking they're harmless, when nothing could be further from the truth. There's even a hint of that 'true nature' in a Waterdeep novel (I forget which one, but 'The Warrens' were involved). I picture my (Arcanum's) version of gnomes as the true 'masters' behind much of Sembia's trade empire. Or do you think the (canon) gnome town of Skultan sits right on Cormyr's border by accident?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Feb 2017 16:55:18 |
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Ari
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 18:21:59
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I feel they would be wary but willing to give them a chance. Because to live is to change and change is good. Maybe try and keep them where a lot of adults can keep watch.
Also they would want to know everything about them and their culture, their family, how the heck goblins, bugbears and hobgoblins can all be of like kind when the "common" races look so similar but are so different.
They might want to take him hunting or just go sight-seeing to be on the safe side. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 18:23:13
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There was a Demihumans of the Realms book, back in the day. And the core book The Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings.
More recently, there was Gnomes of Golarion, though it's not a Realms book and their gnomes are quite different from D&D gnomes. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 19:35:52
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I like the fluff surrounding Golarion's gnomes, but I don't like it FOR (my) gnomes, since I already have a very solid idea of what they are like (see above).
However, if I were to run another fantasy campaign again (whatever world I use - probably a homebrew mash-up), I would include them but not have them be 'gnomes' - maybe some sort of fey race, like pixies or brownies (size-wise they're closer to brownies, but I think the fluff lends itself to the term 'pixie' better). Just give them some sort of fey heritage Feat where they can change size when in proximity to a 'fey place of power'. Something like that. I really do like what they did with the lore, there.
Edit:
I've also toyed with the idea that the gnomes are just a feywild dwarven offshoot. Of course, I've toyed with lots of ways to spin their genesis, and have never come up with one thats made me 100% happy. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Feb 2017 19:37:54 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 20:10:21
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Gnomes are indeed the "forgotten race" of the Realms. Sometimes they're even conspicuously "missing" from the first wave of rule sourcebooks after new D&D editions release.
Gnomes in AD&D could be illusionists or multi-classed illusionists, a powerful and versatile class back in 1E. Svirfneblin (deep gnomes) were detailed in later 1E and 2E products and had racial abilities attractive to hard powergamers. 2E's PHBR9: Complete Book of Gnomes & Halflings presented some gnome-centric kits which (along with kender) were irresistible to players insistent on provoking inter-party conflicts.
I generally avoided using gnome NPCs because my players were too-often prejudiced, suspicious, and dismissive towards this "useless" race. I found it hard to avoid steering my gnomish inventors, tinkers, craftsmen, jewellers, bankers, and merchants into predictable (and unflattering) stereotypes. I found it hard to present my gnomish soldiers, mages, and thieves in ways the party would take as seriously as, say, dwarven fighters and elven mages and halfling thieves. While a gnome could be just about as good at just about anything that any other demihuman could be, I found it difficult to convince my players that my gnomes ever really fell outside the box. I tried enthusiastically embracing obvious expectations, I tried vehemently avoiding them, I tried lampshading them tongue-in-cheek, I tried surprises - perhaps my acting/roleplaying skills weren't up to the task, or perhaps my players' insistent expectations were impossible to overcome, or perhaps gnomes are just an inherently dull, redundant, and unnecessary race. Fortunately, setting canon provided me an easy out with the explanation that gnomes are scarcely encountered, there's not a lot of them around and even those who are around often struggle against (or actively cultivate) a tendency to be overlooked by the other races.
So my only advice is that if you like gnomes then just don't do whatever it is I did wrong or didn't do right, lol.
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[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2017 20:22:40 |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 21:32:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I run them as a cross between a halfling and a dwarf... because thats what I think they are.
As a race, there are different sub-groups. I think brownies are related to gnomes, and thus 'forest gnomes' are much more fey-like in their outlook and culture.
Deep Gnomes (Sirfneblin) are like classic German Kobolds (NOT D&D kobolds - I HATE that they use that name for a dog-faced reptile), and are very much almost exactly like dwarves, but much more xenophobic and maudlin.
But the gnomes we are most familiar with - 'Rock Gnomes' (or as I think of them, 'city gnomes') - I run them a lot like the goblins from Harry Potter. Methodical thinkers (and misers) who have taken to using machinery (steampunk-esque tech) to get a lot of things done, over magic. Their penchant for illusion magic comes from their natural deceptiveness. Through the thousands of years of interaction with other races, these gnomes have learned to 'put on' a friendly face... but its just an act. When you deal with a pack of happy-go-lucky gnomes and then turn to walk away, had you just turned around quickly enough, you may have caught them giving each other sly grins in an evil-lookng, clandestine way.
A lot of how I picture gnomes comes from the computer game Arcanum: Of Steampworks and Magick Obscura. Before that game, I never really thought much about gnomes, and tended to never use them IMGs. In that game, most everyone thought gnomes were just 'friendly little fellows' and shrewd businessmen. However, right form the beginning, you see hints of a 'dark side' - human 'trophy wives' and enslaved half-ogre servants. Later in the game you learn some of the horrific truth - they force-breed their slaves from human female and ogre stock on an island. After playing that game, I decided the only way I wanted gnomes in my games was if they were like that (far more interesting than the canon version).
So basically, they use their small size to fool people into thinking they're harmless, when nothing could be further from the truth. There's even a hint of that 'true nature' in a Waterdeep novel (I forget which one, but 'The Warrens' were involved). I picture my (Arcanum's) version of gnomes as the true 'masters' behind much of Sembia's trade empire. Or do you think the (canon) gnome town of Skultan sits right on Cormyr's border by accident?
ummm..wow lol |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2017 : 23:08:48
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| Bistro Batenrooj the .... ahem... gnome monk |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 01:02:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
ummm..wow lol
And I even left-out the worst part - the unwilling human females ALWAYS die in childbirth.
Yeah... *UGH*  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 03:29:23
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This is how it played out: The community banquet went off quite well. Much sausage, cheese, cottage cheese, goats milk, buttered moss and mushrooms were consumed. Along with much mushroom wine and mead. Dessert was cloudberry and bearberry pies.
After the meal instruments were brought out and music and dancing began. Some instruments were gnomish inventions, variations on a foot powered accordion, and a sheep stomach rudimentary bag pipes.The pan pipes, lute and drums were of the utmost craftsmanship (even the dwarf was impressed). Illusionists created elaborate scenarios for entertainment. Wizards fighting dragons. Comical trolls chasing the children. Many gnomes asked our PCs every possible question. The gnomes had much debate as to whether our fighter had giant's blood (he's 6'4" 250ish lbs).
The party had several mundane items for trade as all magic items had been taken away. But we still had misc gems, small items like smokesticks, tindertwigs, mess kits, healer kit, map making kit, ink quills, our trail rations etc.
The outriders eventually caught our hobgoblin scout, and he was brought into the common hall. Everything stopped.......
the children cowered in fear under their mothers skirts. Everyone moved to the opposite side of the hall. Our hobgoblin was in chains and a catch pole around his neck. He is quite frightful looking, yellow eyes, large canines, very strong and lean 6'0" 200+ lbs. Filthy dreadlocks, a belt made from the hair of a hobgoblin chieftain.
Our elf was able to convince the elders to allow the hobgoblin to join our group in the feast, but under heavy guard. The festivities resumed if somewhat tentatively.
Eventually one of the gnomes who had an eye on our gem stones worked up the courage to come forward. He was a weaponsmith and he had created a dagger that appeared to be nothing but a small bone carving of an eagles head. But, if you touch the eye a hidden button causes a spring loaded blade to shoot out, as if the blade was thrown. Or another catch can be flipped to retain the blade in the handle like a switch blade.
It was ours for about 20 platinum in coins and gems.
Once the hobgoblin caught on to the bartering, he laid out a small leather wrapped bundle, an extremely high quality lock, some steel fish hooks, and some hand made throwing darts. One of the Wardens had his eye on the fish hooks, and gave some smoke pellets in return.
A young miner gnome desired the fancy lock, and gave the hobgoblin a spring loaded extendable metal pole that he uses to test the tunnel ceilings for cave ins. About the length of a short sword, it has pins on either end, and can be extended up to 10 feet to act as a trap springer, wedge open a door, even strong enough to tight rope walk across a gap.
The hob grudgingly gave up his best practice lock for the gnomish pole.
All was well in the end. The elders mentioned that tribes of orcs had moved into the Evermoors. Even orogs had been seen. Hunting has been poor, and the trolls have moved out south and west toward the Evermoor Way. They hinted that perhaps the hob could learn from the orcs why they have come to the Evermoors. This will hook my group into the next adventure (the hall of the frost giant jarl) in the Spine of the World. The frost giants have pushed the orcs out of the spine of the world to the south, the orcs in turn displaced the trolls causing all the attacks along the Evermoor Way.
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Edited by - Cards77 on 06 Feb 2017 03:32:49 |
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Ari
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2017 : 05:41:57
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| This sounds fantastic, Cards77! I'm sorry I'm not one of your players, though perhaps that's for the best. |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 14:03:33
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| One last question. Would gnomes ride small ponies or riding dogs? :) |
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Ari
Acolyte
40 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2017 : 17:55:41
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| Ponies, 100%, assuming they hadn't bred a kind of tiny horse or mule. Dogs aren't very good mounts, and look way worse when you come riding in on one. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2017 : 22:11:20
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| Gnomes might ride large dogs, the way goblins ride large wolves. I'm not talking about any common variety of "big dog", I'm talking about wargs and winter wolves, the sorts of beasts which are more the size of a bear or a pony than the size of a german shepherd. Or maybe large reptiles, large felines, large spiders, giant slugs - why not? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Stormlord
Acolyte
USA
15 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2017 : 05:51:14
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Greetings.
The type of creature a gnome would ride is also depends on location. In one of the Dalelands modules (I think it was Sword of the Dales) the gnomes within the Spiderhaunt Woods tame/train/ride giant spiders. |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Feb 2017 : 16:53:38
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Gnomes in Midgard are an interesting deviation from the norm... From page 32 of the Midgard Campaign Setting:
quote:
Found throughout Midgard in small numbers, gnomes have a single primary home, the dark forest of Neimheim and its surrounding territory. They have a terrible reputation as swindlers, kidnappers, diabolists, and charmers. As individuals, the small men in their amusing hats and pointy boots seem silly. However, as a race they have struck one or more diabolical bargains for power with Baba Yaga or archdevils, and this has led them to turn inward. Their only close allies are the shadow fey, though goblins and kobolds and gnolls are not too particular in their choice of friends, either.
A gnome prince once made a bargain with Baba Yaga and then broke it... And if you know of Baba Yaga, you know that whatever the setting, she is scary with a capital S. So the gnomes were -- rightfully so -- in terror of Baba Yaga, when a devil from the Eleven Hells showed up to make a bargain with the gnomish king. The deal was basically that the gnomish homeland would be hidden and protected from Baba Yaga, in return for blood and souls.
So the gnomes of Midgard have a lot in common with gnomes in most D&D settings -- except for the bound to Hell part. They craft stuff, they live in the forest, they sneak around, and they grab people to sacrifice to maintain their protection against Baba Yaga. (Strangers are greatly preferred to sacrificing gnomes, though they'll do the latter if they must)
Their current king isn't happy with this arrangement, and would like to be rid of their Hellish allies. But that would require coming to some sort of peaceful arrangement with Baba Yaga, and she's not the forgiving type. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2017 : 15:37:52
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I love gnomes as a race. They're the best illusionists in the game, in fact, human illusionists that desire to learn more illusory spells go to gnome masters to train and learn the intricacies of illusory magic.
Gnomes make great rogues. They're small enough to get into areas larger rogues shake their heads at in amazement.
I also think they make great warriors. Who else can stand in the front lines of melee and give the backline rangers, mages and priests open and easy firing paths?
Gnomes make great craftsgnomes too. Their proficiency with jewelcrafting and gems is unmatched imo and they make decent smiths.
From a cultural standpoint, I like gnomes that are happy-go-lucky, inquisitive, opinionated, staunch when set on a topic and thrill seekers. However, just like the rest of the races, they have their people that turn to evil and brigandry. |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2017 : 20:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
One last question. Would gnomes ride small ponies or riding dogs? :)
giant badgers and giant weasels would be common for adventurous typesguards. I'd even throw in giant raccoons (stat wise maybe use giant badgers). Deer might also be fairly common in forest gnome communities. Ponies and Mules should be extremely common. Other than that, yeah, wolves and mastiffs might also be used, but they're probably less likely to be found in gnome communities. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2017 : 16:28:51
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| So we can all agree gnomes are awesome, and vastly underrated |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2017 : 17:30:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
So we can all agree gnomes are awesome, and vastly underrated
Actually, I've never been a fan of gnomes or halflings. Dwarves I like, but not the other short folk. They just don't interest me, most of the time. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2017 : 19:09:58
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I like the Midgard gnomes Wooly detailed above, which sound similar to the Arcanum/My take on them (friendly little fellows in public, but if you turn your back on them WATCH OUT). More in line with traditional (folklore) kobolds, like how Tony DiTerlizzi drew them)
I also like what Paizo did with theirs, although I would take all of that fluff and maybe apply it to something else, like some sort of brownies/Urchin/leprechaun type of fey race. Weirdly, the 'turning grey' part makes me think of the Fairly Odd Parents cartoon take on pixies and fairies.
But standard, D&D gnomes? Just no. Don't like them normal, and don't like the brief, 2e 'wood gnome' variant (which was basically taken from garden gnomes/the old cartoon show). The Krynn/DL version is okay, but I'd like them more 'grittier' and less crazy (so steampunkish - that would be okay). Once again, though, I'd apply that to a more 'kobold' type of creature (or Iron Kingdom's goblins, which are just AWESOME).
In my homebrew lore, I plan to spin them as fey-variant of dwarves, with maybe two branches - Prime material 'tinkers', and Feywild dwellers (that would be more like Tolkien's hobbits, living in burrows).
I'm with Wooly once again - never cared much for halflings either. As much as I dislike Dragonlance, at east they did something interesting with Kender. FR/D&D standard hin are just 'small humans', and thats kinda boring, IMO.
EDIT:
I just got a nifty idea - what if the feywild had borders with all the outer planes? (Does it? With the ever-changing cosmology I wouldn't know, plus the Feywild is actually sort of 'new', edition-wise). And what if fey creatures were sort of like 'sponges' in a weird way, becoming very much like things they live near (so fey living close to humans would behave a lot like humans, etc).
What sparked this idea was thinking of those 'tinker gnomes' and Mechanus (Nirvana) - what if those types of gnomes live close to the border with that plane (or close to gates there)? So it isn't just the landscape and structures that are affected by this 'planer pull' (infectious synchronicity), but also creatures as well (which makes sense, giving the types of people that live in the Gate Towns). So you could have gnomes of many different varieties, all based on different planes (watch out for those hell-Gnomes, they'll feed your soul to Asmodeus!).
Maybe all fey behave this way (didn't gnomes become fey in 4e?), and maybe the Great Wheel turns, and different parts of the Wheel come into contact with different parts of the Feywild (and Shadowfel) as it spins. That could explain the seasonal 'courts' - maybe the winter court and summer court are the same thing, but you are catching them at different times (when they are 'coterminus' with different outer planes).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Mar 2017 19:24:36 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 03:17:06
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I've long established my love for all-things-gnome across the various D&D worlds. And whilst I do care deeply for the gnomes of the Realms in particular, I'm comfortable with their rather "forgotten" status, since it's an aspect of their race that's been perpetuated since the earliest days of the published Realms.
From the Ol' Grey Box [Cyclopedia of the Realms pg. 46]:-
quote:
The Gnomes are called the Forgotten Folk of the Forgotten Realms, for despite the fact they seem an everyday sight in major cities, and have goodsized communities of their own, they seem unbothered by the world and similarly only rarely become involved with it.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 04:19:13
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I should like to expand on my previous statement, just a bit... I am no fan of halflings and gnomes, but I don't dislike them, either. The races just hold no appeal for me.
I generally don't even think about them, unless I've a concept that specifically calls for one of those races -- like the halfling assassin I thought up, or the gnome monster hunter. The halfling assassin I came up with because of the sheer unlikeliness of that class/race combo, and the monster hunter became a gnome because I wanted to use a rather gnomish name I'd thought up.
Other races that don't work for me include aasimar and just about anything that was thought up for a splat book. There are exceptions to the latter, but a lot of those races have been uninspiring and generic, IMO.
I do like tinker gnomes, though.  |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Mar 2017 04:20:14 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 15:13:38
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We're beginning to drift, but I just want to respond to Wooly's last comment -
My problem with splat-book races isn't so much the lore itself, but rather, that they wasted that space creating a race no-one really uses or cares about, when we already had existing races that could have been expanded upon, and really used all that juicy lore.
Prime examples - Raptorans. What the hell? Did anyone ever play one? Why hadn't that lore been applied to the Aarakocra, or avariels? The lore itself is good, the race redundant and unnecessary.
And don't even get me started on 'Goliaths'. Not only does the name make me want to strangle someone, but we already had a MUCH better race fit in that niche - the Firbolgs. Bob Salvatore did a few cool things with them, and so did Troy Denning. They are a great race, with some neat gimmicks and they look awesome. 'Goliaths' isn't just a silly sounding name, they are ugly, lumpy... *just yuck*. They look like something a 5-year-old came up with. Those things will NEVER exist on any RPG world I play on, and most certainly not be in the Forgotten Realms. Hell, even 'half-giants' (Athas) are better than those dumb-ass things.
The fluff that went with them, though, is pretty good, which just infuriates me more. All of that could have gone to the firbolgs, who've been in D&D practically from the beginning, and have EARNED the right to be in a splatbook.
And to bring this back around, I went looking for cool-looking gnomes, and found THIS, which should give folks some inspiration. I love the one in the top hat with the bow. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Mar 2017 01:57:00 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 17:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
We're beginning to drift, but I just want to respond to Wooly's last comment -
My problem with splat-book races isn't so much the lore itself, but rather, that they wasted that space creating a race no-one really uses or cares about, when we already had existing races that could have been expanded upon, and really used all that juicy lore.
Exactly. I'd've rather seen existing races expanded upon, rather than others shoe-horned in to fill page count.
Gnomes and halflings in the Realms have, pardon all the puns, gotten the short end of the stick. Humans get most of the coverage, and elves have gotten a lot of coverage, too. Dwarves haven't had a huge amount of coverage, but at the very least, there is a dwarven sourcebook that came to us from Ed's own pen. Gnomes and halflings have had very little coverage... So there has been little to set them apart and really make them interesting, at least in my opinion.
Honestly, the best coverage Realms halflings have had was in a Known World sourcebook! Sure, it's not the Realms, but it's from Ed's pen, and when I said to him it could be used for Luiren, he responded with "Superimpose the Luiren cities and government structure, shift places "just a little" to make room for them, and, yes, it works admirably for that. Almost as if someone designed it that way. ;} "
Heck, the drow have had more coverage in Realmslore than gnomes and halflings have, and until recently, the drow were not one of the core races.
Now, I'm not a fan of Golarion's gnomes, but the Bleaching is an interesting idea -- it's something that really sets the race apart and makes them distinctive. And Midgard's gnomes, with their collective racial terror of Baba Yaga driving them to consort with fiends, that's a really interesting spin. We don't have anything like that for Realms gnomes.
They're called the Forgotten Folk in-setting... But they've largely been forgotten in the source material, too, and that's a shame. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2017 : 00:56:26
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How about Mr. Welch gnomes?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
My problem with splat-book races isn't so much the lore itself, but rather, that they wasted that space creating a race no-one really uses or cares about, when we already had existing races that could have been expanded upon, and really used all that juicy lore.
Splatbook nonsense is but a symptom of what goes on: in 3.x era D&D became a "formerly loud name" bandwagon with little to no quality control and surprise, surprise - it quickly ended up as a blob of barnacles and lampreys allowed to cling to whatever and whoever was good in AD&D2 era.
Which demonstrates the rule of continuity degradation, too: "Any sufficiently established franchise is indistinguishable from fanfic". Which is one of the reasons why "Grubbyverse" Planescape was never replaced by anything coherent comparable to it, just drunk mumbling.
Introducing Very Speshul tiny little things as splatbook novelties in itself is not a big problem - look at Mystara. At least are, indeed, easy to ignore. Which is better than everything established being turned on its ears and squashed into one more stupid fanfic.
Conversely, "one sinkhole" policy and "what the world spins around this month" gimmick events are bound to bury anything left worth looking at under mountain ranges of junk. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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How do you roleplay gnomes?
