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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 28 Jan 2017 :  20:42:41  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hi. Here asking another map stuff (so, maybe is a Markustay question). Is there any map that shows all of Toril continents with Laerakond/Returned Abeir in it? Is mostly to do a comparative of size and distance with Faerun and Maztica (I plan to have the three continents on my Realms).

Thanks in advance.

P.S.: There is any canon answer on what happened to Returned Abeir in 5e? It's not mentioned in SCAG, and as far as I know, in Volo's MG they say Maztica returned to Toril. Was Returned Abeir returned to Abeir? (no pun intended) or is still laying around in canon Realms?

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5240 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2017 :  03:19:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Hi. Here asking another map stuff (so, maybe is a Markustay question). Is there any map that shows all of Toril continents with Laerakond/Returned Abeir in it? Is mostly to do a comparative of size and distance with Faerun and Maztica (I plan to have the three continents on my Realms).

Thanks in advance.

P.S.: There is any canon answer on what happened to Returned Abeir in 5e? It's not mentioned in SCAG, and as far as I know, in Volo's MG they say Maztica returned to Toril. Was Returned Abeir returned to Abeir? (no pun intended) or is still laying around in canon Realms?



No answer as yet on whether Returned Abeir returned, but personally I'm not a fan of giving up things that have been detailed. Since somehow or other "fake" Evermeet got moved near to it, I personally thought "hey, let's have it move with Evermeet so that its out of the way of Maztica". Since I don't believe we ever knew the spatial relationship of the "fake" Evermeet to Laerakond (which if it was ever revealed, someone let me know), I chose that Laerakond was NW of "fake" Evermeet before.... and so now its NW of "Returned Evermeet".... putting Laerakond firmly between Northern Faerun and the continent of Anchorome.... perfect for interacting with both and being a raiding ground for Northmen.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2017 :  05:46:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
#1, No map, per se, but at one point I did a mock-up thingy just to show the relationship between them all. maybe I can find it.** My timezones map shows the entirety of Toril - just picture Returned Abeir where Maztica is (and I only just now realized I never labeled Maztica on that map... *sigh*)

#2, I am working on a another side-side project that is on the back-burner at present, but maybe I'll post a WIP of it tomorrow. I found a new home for Abeir (better than the last three palaces I stuck it*), and it actually makes another FR region more useful... and fun. Picture it as a 'gateway to Zakhara', but still close to FR... and some of those islands that need love (poor little gnomeses).

Also, I modified the shape of it quite a bit, by resizing the canon map (and parts of my own map), so its not so 'fantasy-ish' (but still keeping the flavor the Atlatean-esque layout).


*Although I still like the Halruaa idea... if they hadn't brought back Halruaa. This version leaves all the old stuff intact ('additive design').

**EDIT:
Just found THIS, which was the mock-up I did. Just ignore Xendrik at the bottom there (it does make a great replacement for Katashaka, though).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jan 2017 19:07:54
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2017 :  19:40:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I pulled-up the newer 'Abeir in 5e' map I was working on, flattened it, and posted it to DeviantART 'for posterity'.

The New Abeir-near-Chult Map

You can see its now growing off the back of Lantan (like a giant wort LOL), which I did because I wanted to Lantan to get some 5e love, but now I thinking maybe it would have been better served 'very close by but NOT connected'.

I've also pulled Nimbral a little closer, so we get some nifty interaction there (I picture a big alliance of 'flying nations' working at odds with the dragon lords in Abeir, which would include Pegasi rides of Nimbral, Ornithopters from Lanatn, flying ships (and griffin riders) from Halruaa, and perhaps some wyvern-riders from Chult (picturing an old Conan/Vallejo cover).

Please let me know if you guys think this is something worth finishing. I don't want to work on any maps that no-one will wind up using (no matter how 'kewl' the concept is).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2017 :  19:50:47  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I thing that the very close but not connected is the best approach. The map seems cool.

Is there a 5e map, btw?

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2017 :  20:09:09  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is THIS SWORD COAST MAP by Mike Schley (which I've purchased), but I haven't seen any maps that have gone beyond this one. AFAIK, there is no '5e Campaign Map' for The Forgotten Realms.

There is one I got from an article on the WotC site - a preview map, which had a LOT of that map on it, and I was able to download it for free, but now I can't seem to find that article (or map) anywhere. I even searched by file name... weird. I did find it somewhere else though (Google 'Storm king's Thunder' for images), but since the ones I see when I try that approach are NOT on the WotC site, they probably aren't legally reposted (although there may not have been a problem when they were first posted, if Wizard's had posted it themselves, which I am 99% positive they did). Still, I would recommend just buying the full map from Mike Schley's site - its worth it (and the one I am basing all my 5e maps off of... for the most part).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jan 2017 20:10:34
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
604 Posts

Posted - 29 Jan 2017 :  21:33:05  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That map Markustay posted is the only "sourcebook" map so far for 5e, which appeared in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. All the other maps have been in adventures, the most complete of which appeared in Storm King's Thunder, and was made accessible through the Extra Life charity donations - available here.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Matrix Sorcica
Seeker

Denmark
39 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2017 :  12:09:18  Show Profile Send Matrix Sorcica a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Please let me know if you guys think this is something worth finishing. I don't want to work on any maps that no-one will wind up using (no matter how 'kewl' the concept is).


Please do.I find your work endless inspiring.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2017 :  20:01:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since I am playing with this again, I put together a 'tool' map by pasting together a bunch of FRIA maps, to make it easier for me to do conversions moving forward (placing and sizing them properly). Its nothing pretty, but it gives a good overview of the major 'Forgotten Realms' playing areas, minus Kara-Tur, and you can see the distances to other regions beyond Faerûn. I originally had no intention of posting it anywhere, but I figure maybe some folks will find it useful, and even give newer FR fans an idea of just how big FR really is.

My 'work map'

Oh, and although quite a bit of text is illegible, its sized at 11 x 8½ (Landscape) at 300 DPI. If anyone bothers to print it, let me know how it comes out.

Cheers

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Mar 2017 20:05:40
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2017 :  21:19:55  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And whilst looking for yet another reference in one of Ed's threads, I cam across this response by Ed to a query from Wooly, and it has to do with using Laerakond (Returned Abeir) in the Realms in other ways than 4e did, which could also apply to us simply moving it to a new spot as of 5e, hence my posting a link to it here:

From Ed's 2009 thread, pg.66 - close to the bottom of the page.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Mar 2017 21:21:26
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2017 :  22:56:23  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That map is perfect, thanks. Using it alongside with your earlier map of Jakandor/Laerakond, this map will be most useful.

EDIT:

Reading Ed's answer, he says that Laerakond can be located "southwest of Evermeet". Is that the placement of Katakasha? Or my sense of direction is worst than I thought?

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 22 Mar 2017 23:10:15
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5240 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2017 :  02:24:45  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, just a thought. I actually wanted Laerakond moved northeast of Evermeet. However, that was purely to give the northmen somewhere new to raid. However, it doesn't really fit its jungle nature in the southern part (much of the northern mountains are frozen, but they are mountains... so...). Anyway, tying this in with the Jakandor also being that small continent to the east of Katashaka.... what if somewhere above Evermeet there's some portal in the ocean that links to the southern hemisphere. This could explain the idea of the Knorrmen of Jakandor, give the northmen a passageway to invade these southern island continents of both Jakandor and Laerakond, and even explain away the northmen like culture that's down in the borderlands area between southern Faerun and Zakhara.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  01:37:38  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I used to feel that way about mountainous cold regions as well, until I noticed that the Himalayas aren't that far from the equator. Altitude means a LOT.

The other conversion I am working on - putting the Rivlands (Norse-like setting) into the northern part of the Sea of Swords (between Ruathym and The Purple Rocks) gives us a decent 'Northmen homeland', that just like Jakandor, may have only appeared since the Sundering (2.0).

If and when I ever get around to a new world map (nothing fancy - just a prettier version of the FRIA world map), I plan to rebuild Ed's original island chain of Anchorômé, trailing outward from the top of that continent north of Maztica (which rally ISN'T Anchorômé - we've just been calling it that) toward the islands around Tuern. You'll note on the FRIA maps there is an island chain, its just very tiny and strung along the coast there. I plan to accentuate it a bit, and have it 'connect' to the northern part of Faerûn's islands (with still some distance between them, of course - I'm thinking they 'island hop', which is what Ed said many folk do in his old Realms L-list postings).

Laerakond definitely works better in a hot climate; jungles, dragons, all sorts of 'scaley thangs' going on. It makes a nice go-between for Faerûn and Zakhara, IMO.

And folks are MUCH more likely to use it somehow if its placed near the main campaign area; Returned Abeir and Maztica were both practically ignored because of where they were/are.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Mar 2017 02:00:45
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5240 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  01:56:45  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I used to feel that way about mountainous cold regions as well, until I noticed that the Himalayas aren't that far from the equator. Altitude means a LOT.

The other conversion I am working on - putting the Rivlands (Norse-like setting) into the northern part of the Sea of Swords (between Ruathym and The Purple Rocks) gives us a decent 'Northmen homeland', that just like Jakandor, may have only appeared since the Sundering (2.0).

If and when I ever get around to a new world map (nothing fancy - just a prettier version of the FRIA world map), I plan to rebuild Ed's original island chain of Anchorômé, trailing outward from the top of that continent north of Maztica (which rally ISN'T Anchorômé - we've just been calling it that) toward the islands around Tuern. You'll note on the FRIA maps there is an island chain, its just very tiny and strung along the coast there. I plan to accentuate it a bit, and have it 'connect' to the northern part of Faerûn's islands (with still some distance between them, of course - I'm thinking they 'island hop', which is what Ed said many folk do in his old Realms L-list postings).

Laerakond definitely works better in a hot climate jungles, dragons, all sorts of 'scaley thangs' going on. It makes a nice go-between for Faerûn and Zakhara, IMO.

And folks are MUCH more likely to use it somehow if its placed near the main campaign area; Returned Abeir and Maztica were both practically ignored because of where they were/are.



I know the whole story of Ed had Anchorome as islands, but we have the 2e sources labeling the northern continent as anchorome in the Maztica stuff. What I choose to think is that its both.... the continent and the islands in the northern part.

On the Laerakond relocating, I like the idea of if somehow getting "dragged" by evermeet (as the fake evermeet and real evermeet swapped). As far as I can tell in my research, we never got a spatial relationship between the fake evermeet and Laerakond (i.e. was the fake evermeet southwest of it or northwest or northeast of it). However, that may be delving too deep into the mystery without a good reason for why, and we can always say "uh, magic broke... things shifted"

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  02:07:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, the article I wrote in the Candlekeep Compendium IX detailed a number of 'Sea Gates', and there could be many more.

I'm not so thrilled with Jakandor precisely where I placed it in the above link. It probably would have been fine by itself, but with Abeir there it is awfully crowded, which goes against the whole premise of Jakandor. I'd probably shift Jakandor south, and somewhat west. Not entirely replacing 'Tabaxiland', but in that general direction (its a LOT smaller than Tabaxiland).

The only thing I don't like about that is that i feel the futher away we push it, the less likely folks will use it. I felt the other placement was a compromise, but it just don't look right, and the Maztica-crossing has become somewhat easier because of it (although ships might just sail far north of it, rather than circling around the coasts). We could even plunk Jakandor down on the other side of Zakhara, and it might actually be a better fit - perhaps the knorr are from Osse. Of course, than no-one would use it. LOL

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Mar 2017 00:42:19
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  02:17:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And just for posterity (and since I have it all in my notes), here is Ed's post about Eskember from the Realms List -

quote:
Eskember
This small island realm never made it into the Old Grey Box for the same
reason Evermeet got shoved several thousand leagues east (closer to mainland
Faerun): accurate maps of my 'home' Realms campaign would have been map panel
after map panel ('panel' meaning one fit-the-box folded rectangle of those
fold-out map pages) of mostly empty water stretching west, with only a few
islets and island chains scattered thereon.
So to 'find' Eskember, get out the Old Grey Box mapsheet labelled
"1031XXXX0703," and look at the Moonshaes. Start at the map panel occupied by
the Wave Rocks, the Gull Rocks, and the Moonshaes, and go due west (following
the "to Evermeet" arrow that's helpfully floating on the waves there) for two
panels of almost-blank sea (the second invisible panel has a tiny cluster of
shoals called "Wash Rock" on it, at about the same latitude and position in
the panel as the Gull Rocks occupy in the panel you're examining). In the
western half of the third panel of proceeding westwards lies Evermeet (at
least, as it was situated in the original Realms). Now shift southwest from
this panel, diagonal corner to diagonal corner, into a new panel of empty
sea. Go west along this new line of latitude the full length of another
panel, and as you enter the panel beyond, imagine it dotted with numerous
small islands and rocks, and dominated by two larger islands.
One of these large isles, about 2-o'clock in orientation to the center of the
panel, is a 100-mile-long, fairly slender (30 miles wide at best) east-west
crescent (center bow towards the north) that's wild jungle over VERY rough
terrain (rock ridges and little gorges cut by numerous small streams that all
find their own ways to the sea without ever combining into larger rivers).
Shove all manner of monsters, especially oversized bats and nasty plants of
all sorts, into this terrain, put abundant gems and a little gold into the
many gorge crevices (and if I was doing it today with 3E rulebooks, I'd
deploy generous numbers of chokers, too), put in a few deep caves with
cloakers and an ancient, subterranean automaton-guarded and
magic-item-studded tomb of a fled-from-Netheril archmage, and call the whole
thing "Sarambril."
Make Sarambril the run-to refuge of some pirates of the Nelanther, and the
place the most daring pirates come to seek gems, or put ashore disobedient
crew or slaves in a sort of rough justice ("We'll return to this
landing-place next year; if you meet us here then with X amount of raw gems
in payment, all is forgiven/you're freed...and we'll take you aboard and
deliver you ashore in the mainland, just trust us" :}). Most pirates have
never been to Sarambril; to them it's a legendary but known-to-be-real place
somewhere "far across the trackless waves."

South of Sarambril, sheltered by it and by Eskember from the worst winds, are
many small, rocky islands inhabited by simple fisher-folk, who have no riches
or possessions to speak of (beyond their nets, spears, boats, and huts).
These brown-skinned, long-limbed people are called "the Hael" by the pirates,
after the name of one of the largest islands (Hael, about twelve miles across
and roughly circular), but call themselves after the particular island they
come from, and lack any unified government or authority beyond family elders.
Though they include many castoff pirates and descendants of shipwreck crews,
the Hael don't make war on each other or discriminate among themselves on the
basis of blood or appearance; they consider everyone on an island to be 'a
family.' Preoccupied with the daily struggle to survive, the Hael are acutely
attuned to the weather and the sea, entertain themselves with tale-telling
(visitors will instantly become the focus of new tales created from
conjecture), and have little interest in alliances, the doings of the wider
world, or riches (beyond abundant food, good sails and rope, and the like).
Hael treasure good hand-weapons (handaxes, broadswords, and daggers), many of
which they've gleaned from outlanders, but mistrust hurled spears, arrows,
and the like (any missile weapons beyond the simple sling or rolled boulder)
because of the strong, gusty local winds.
The Hael wear broad woven straw hats (tied securely on their heads against
sea-winds), and wear large, loose, wrap-around-the-body weather-cloaks
salvaged from old sails. They make small, slender, swift boats out of
palm-trunks lashed together (with lateen sails woven on looms from the
cotton-like fibers of the pods of the thradra plants that grow naturally on
the high slopes of most of these islands), fish with small drag nets and long
palm fish-spears, and flee and hide rather than fighting most outlanders.
They dwell in caves that have thatched hillside 'forerooms' built over the
cavemouths, and tiny 'back ways out' (concealed by capstones) laboriously dug
for each cave that doesn't naturally connect with another. Many of the ridges
in the islands of the Hael are honeycombed with small, spiderlike cavern
networks, customarily divided into individual sleeping-caves by
readily-rolled-aside stones, and having many connections to the outside.
The Hael neither read nor write, but they can count, have their own
arithmetical characters and symbols for warnings and place-markings, and have
a simple system of whistling and "seabird-shriek" calls that they use to
communicate across water. They speak a heavily-accented Chondathan, and
Common.

The Hael have long since exterminated most of the predators on their islands,
though wyverns fly out from Sarambril on 'hunger raids' from time to time. A
few islands amid the cluster of 130-plus small islets remain wild and
monster-roamed; Hael seeking to get rid of belligerent outlanders will
sometimes direct such folk to one of these, claiming ruins thereon contain
rich treasure. Many of the islands DO have ancient crumbling-stone-wall ruins
(of origins unknown to the Hael), but the only 'treasure' most of them hold
is monsters, monsters, and more monsters.
Some of the more populous islands of the Hael (in roughly descending order of
size) include: Hael, Sorsee, Umbar, Thloekil, Thammar, Ruveldar, Osell,
Mrasak, Oumpaun, Ilidil, Tarmusk, Faedree, and Darso.
To the west of the islands of the Hael is the large island of Eskember, which
is roughly teardrop-shaped, with its long axis running north-south and its
larger, bulbous part at the south end. Its northern spur is about forty miles
across in most places, and 120 miles or so long, curving slightly to the
northeast at its tip (which is a profusion of rocks, shoals, and islets
rising out of the sea). Its southern bulk is about seventy miles across and
fifty miles 'high' from north to south, and its entire western flank consists
of a rugged range of mountain peaks that thrust almost vertically up out of
the sea and the rest of the land-mass, forming a sheltering wall. The peaks
are said to be 'haunted' by beasts that "eat the minds of men," and few folk
trouble to go there to see what these menaces may be.
Eskember is usually covered with a light mist, and is always covered with a
forest of huge shadowtop trees, of a height and girth astonishing to most
mainlanders who see them. These forest giants are much prized for use in
shipmaking, and for centuries sawmills and shipbuilding slips have been
located here; of old a few intrepid seafaring folk of Tethyr, Tashluta, and
Baldur's Gate considered this place their 'secret hoard of ships.'
Down the centuries, sheep-farms and then small trading-ports grew up around
the coastal mills and shipwrights' yards (which are located at the only two
settlements of Eskember: the horseshoe-shaped port "Eskember" that surrounds
the natural harbor of Tarnstar Bay, a long inlet at the center of the eastern
face of the island's southern bulk; and Halamorn, located where the small
Darsurpar River empties into Rathaer's Bay, two-thirds up the eastern shore
of the island's northern spur).
The port of Eskember, in particular, has become something of a crossroads
trading place, haven, and 'neutral ground' for pirates, outlaws, slavers,
whalers, far-faring fisherfolk, and outcasts from all over Faerun. The pirate
Rathaer set himself up as 'Lord of Eskember' centuries back, largely to
establish a rather brutal law-keeping force that drove home his idea of
Eskember being a 'down-all-weapons, suspend-all-feuds' place. He died long
ago, but his best import remains: established clergies of Helm, Mielikki,
Selune, and Silvanus who govern in concert, 'in the name of' the Lord of
Eskember (whose empty throne is kept on display, never-if they or any of the
rival pirates who call in at Eskember have anything to say about it-to again
be filled). A few priests of Chauntea, Ilmater, Lathander, Lliira, Lurue,
Sune and Tymora can also be found on the island, but they take no part in
governance, and form no priesthoods larger than a dozen individuals.
From time to time folk who've fled to Eskember or parted ways from captains
or crews there will get together on a newly-built boat to sail east to the
mainland, usually sailing well south to avoid the Nelanther, and calling at
Tharsult or Tashluta. In these voyages they're aided by two things: even the
fiercest ship-wrecking storms seldom manage to actually sink ships that are
crammed full of lumber, and a deck cargo of large masts sold at the docks of
any Sword Coast port usually defrays all costs of the voyage and leaves every
person disembarking quite wealthy.
This has led to tales of "distant, golden Eskember" and "Eskember the
Sea-Haven," many of which are so embellished that folk who reach Eskember are
often bewildered not to find an empire, palaces full of riches and beautiful
folk, and the like. Those who come to conquer are warned that the Mist
Haven's forests hide more than a few simple dwellings of powerful folk who
came to this remote isle so as not to be found-but retain the means to firmly
resist unwanted visitors.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Mar 2017 02:17:30
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  03:07:59  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

On the Laerakond relocating, I like the idea of if somehow getting "dragged" by evermeet (as the fake evermeet and real evermeet swapped). As far as I can tell in my research, we never got a spatial relationship between the fake evermeet and Laerakond (i.e. was the fake evermeet southwest of it or northwest or northeast of it). However, that may be delving too deep into the mystery without a good reason for why, and we can always say "uh, magic broke... things shifted"



We can always say that the gods relocated it in the Sundering 2.0. I mean, AO wanted its fake Mexico back, but some gods (including Selûne, Shar, and others) were investing their powers in Laerakond. If it was returned back to Abeir, would be a blow for them (thanks to AO's rules). Mostly for Shar, that get in the losing streak when Netheril was thwarted (or destroyed again, if you follow canon—I'm not, I using your ideas about a more intelligent new Netherese). So, they went to AO and said "we want Laerakond here, if you please". AO allowed it and they moved the continent to Markustay's location.

Or least, that's the explanation I using in my Realms.


Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29792 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  15:55:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It'd be easier to say that Laerakond was originally on Toril, and got moved to Abeir at some point. It coming back to Toril was truly a return to its place of origin, hence, "Returned Abeir."

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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 25 Mar 2017 :  20:28:52  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, it would be easier. And technically what you say is true: Abeir and Toril were one world at some point in the past, so Laerakond was part of Toril at some point... But I really like the concept of this continent being from a parallel world. It allow me to export rare stuff from other settings into my game without so much thinkering (like Dark Sun's defiling magic)

And gods saving abeiran lands in the Sundering 2.0 has happened in canon (Erin's novels). If a power so weak as Enlil (he had only one follower in millenia) was able to save Tymanther on his own... well, I'm an sure a major deity can easily hold a continent on its own.

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29792 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  03:24:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Yeah, it would be easier. And technically what you say is true: Abeir and Toril were one world at some point in the past, so Laerakond was part of Toril at some point... But I really like the concept of this continent being from a parallel world. It allow me to export rare stuff from other settings into my game without so much thinkering (like Dark Sun's defiling magic)




My approach doesn't keep you from doing that: Laerakond was on another world for millennia -- that's plenty of time for importing stuff from elsewhere.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  04:31:11  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EDIT: I seem to have gotten two different threads and projects mixed up, my bad. Although I am responding to stuff said just above, i am thinking about the wrong 'add-in' for the 5e Realms. Sorry.

FR's always been open to 'setting immigration'; in fact, its built right into the name (and core concept). No need to go looking for reasons. The Gates/Portals are also all part of the setting, as are the 'Wells'/'Pools of Power', both of which I think are connected, and part of the The Weave (and I think The Weave itself can function as a 'transitive plane' when need be, with the concept of The Road of Stars and Shadows). Portals and Pools - one transfers matter, the other energy. All part of some 'vast network' (power grid?) set up in the Dawn Ages (back on that 'First World' before it was Sundered). And as we know (from Ed), The Weave = 'Life', which brings me to...

Borrowing defiler magic from Dark Sun. Once again, no need. FR has the concept, as I am sure most D&D worlds do (its juts better hidden). What happened when the Phaerimm started draining the magic out of the Anauroch? They destabilized The Weave in a localized fashion, causing havoc (including at least one Enclave falling). The Phaerimm's magic-eating was called 'life-draining magic'. Once again, magic (Arcane Magic/The Weave) = 'Life', and when you drain it away, life dies... like a desert. The Phaerimm ARE defilers.

The Thayans 'Dread Rings' seem to function on a similar concept. All roads lead to Toril.

As for the promised map, I wound-up going back into the original Rivlands map, which I tweaked a bit, and posted on my DevianART Page. That island is the one I will be using for the conversion (minor conversion - more of a 'shoe-horning'), and a WIP of that map will be posted tomorrow. In the meantime, check out The Rivlands Map, and if you like it, buy Midnght at Mogheim, while its still available. The pdf is only $10, so its a steal.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Mar 2017 04:33:41
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  06:40:28  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Borrowing defiler magic from Dark Sun. Once again, no need. FR has the concept, as I am sure most D&D worlds do (its juts better hidden). What happened when the Phaerimm started draining the magic out of the Anauroch? They destabilized The Weave in a localized fashion, causing havoc (including at least one Enclave falling). The Phaerimm's magic-eating was called 'life-draining magic'. Once again, magic (Arcane Magic/The Weave) = 'Life', and when you drain it away, life dies... like a desert. The Phaerimm ARE defilers.

The Thayans 'Dread Rings' seem to function on a similar concept. All roads lead to Toril.


Well, Dark Sun defilers are unlike the Phaerimm. They become dragons Though yes... defiling magic despoils life...

BTW, that reminds me of the concept of the Worldfire that Ed created in 4e, although Worldfire have far more powerful effects than what the Phaerimm did...

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 26 Mar 2017 :  07:11:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They become Dragon-Kings, but only if they know that path to power. I think in order to do that, you'd need some psionic abilities as well.

Phaerimm would have no need to do that; they already command a powerful form. However, Phaerimm may have started-out as something else, just as their arch-enemies - the Sharn - did.

So maybe, when you've drained-away enough magic, you become part of The Weave of that world (or even simply replace it - Athas is a 'dead' world). Ed has said both dragons and elves are part of the Weave, so maybe 'draconic' is just one of several paths to demi-godhood. I've likened Phaerimm to 'magical cancer' that infects worlds, and the Sharn as a type of 'antibody'. If you think of the world itself as a living creature (which I suppose it is in a D&D/fantasy setting), and The Weave as its 'soul', then all these different types of powerful creatures are there for a reason, and are art of the 'metabolism' of the planet itself.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2017 :  19:51:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, in the thread about finding a 'Northmen Homeland' I posted that i would try building a map using Ed's instructions (above) for Eskember, and working outward from there. As soon as I sized the 'panels' he was talking about, I realized an immediate problem - Evermeet should be about twice the distance it is from Faerûn as it is on the old maps. I realized it was further, but hadn't realized it was THAT MUCH further. Now, the place where Ed's version of Anchorômé begins is even one 'panel' further west than that (and south), which would put it on the other side of that continet there (which isn't really Anchorômé - we've just been calling it that).

Now, I noted some time back we actually had much more ocean between Kara-Tur and Maztica than the maps ever showed (except maybe the FRIA maps), because of the nature of applying a flat map to a globe. In other words, if you were to look at the map in the 3e FRCS you'd have to add about two inches off either edge of that map there (my timezones map shows the correct distances, or, at least as 'correct' as you can get with a flat map). Thus, the best solution would be to shove that northern continent further away... except that it appears in that spot in the FRIA maps and in the 3e FRCS map. Plus, it would do weird things in regards to Maztica.

So what to do? there are several ways I could go with this. The first thing that popped into my head was a 'shattering' of that continent there, actually turning it into an archipelago. That would mean Ed's home group 'sailed through' that region to get to Eskember. Not optimal, but kinda cool (especially from a gaming perspective - "the shattered lands" sounds awesome). Just Gooogled that name, and WotC already owns it - it was the name of a DS video game!

Moving it past that continent would make everything work out numerically (and, I suppose, canonically), but it would make no sense at all as a place you could sail to directly, invalidating Ed's home games (not that that should matter at this point, but it would also make my mapping of them completely pointless as well).

So lets throw-out the math, and the 'kewl' factors - what if I just reduced his directions to fit the canon maps? It would mean a slew of islands between Evermeet and that continent (which I now refuse to call Anchorômé, since the idea here is to bring back the 'real' version).

Or maybe... some combination of the first and last ideas? I'm really taken with the whole 'Shattered Lands' thing, and it could just be the 'greater' region of the archipelago 'behind' the parts that Ed's group discovered.

And if I really feel like providing an explanation, Ed's game happened in an 'alternate reality' version of The Realms (albeit technically the canon/TSR/WotC Realms are the 'alternate') where the Sundering never occurred, and the planet is STILL Abeir-Toril, so its almost twice the size (thus explaining where all that extra ocean went).

And because I'm borderline insane, I just wondered and calculated how much bigger a planet really would be if its mass doubled, and the surface area would only increase by about 59% (multiply all distances by 1.587411... approx.) . And now I know the radius, surface area, and volume of an Earth-sized sphere, and one that has increased to double that volume. So much uselees crap swimming around inside my head. {sigh}

Anyhow, that actually sounds in the ball park of the number we'd need for my conjecture above - that Ed was indeed playing on an 'unSundered' Abeir-Toril (except it then invalidates all his Faerûn-based numbers). We could say only the water-area increases in size, and continents remain the same... but my brain is still to hurt and all of this is absolutely meaningless as anything other then a mental exercise.

Of course, if the planet were bigger, would that mean the people and everything else could have been bigger? Then they'd be able to cover the same distance between two settlements in the same amount of time regardless... *GAH!* I need to stop now... and take some ibuprofen...


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 28 Mar 2017 20:07:18
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2017 :  20:09:10  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I love finding the little snippets on the Realms L List. If only there was a way to find all the ones Ed posted there (and George and Eric and others).

I know the Secrets of the Archmages website has all the posts on there but I just need some way to auto sift through them

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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer

USA
1073 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2017 :  23:42:56  Show Profile  Visit Brian R. James's Homepage Send Brian R. James a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For those curious about Eskember, Sarambril and other Uncharted Islands of the Trackless Sea, you can read more about them in Candlekeep Compendium - Volume IX in my article "Age of Sail"

http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/Candlekeep_Compendium-Volume_IX.zip

Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer

Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames, and please be sure to check out the RED AEGIS Roleplaying Game
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