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 Where to find Eldritch Knights among humans
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Arioch
Learned Scribe

Italy
220 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2017 :  18:26:08  Show Profile  Visit Arioch's Homepage Send Arioch a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Dear Scribes,

I'm starting a new FR campaign, set in 1493 DR and using 5th ed. rules, which I like. I'm an old player (started in 1989) so I'm aware that my opinion about race-class combinations can be outdated. I can live with that .

One class in particular I'm trying to figure out which role covers in the Realms, which cultures may have adopted it, which backgrounds may it come from. It was present in previous editions but not with the actual face: the Eldritch Knight.

And I'm investigating it especially among humans.

I found hard to place this class because often a multiclass fighter/sorcerer, a war caster wizard, a warlock with the blade pact better describe a group/order option wielding magic and swords.


(Quick thoughts about other races:

  • Elves and half-elves: the fighter/mage class is something I see more closely related to elves. Maybe the spells available to EK are a bit too disruptive to be of their liking. Probably the Bladesinger(Wizard) and the Arcane Archer(Fighter) now better emphasize the magic-weapon relationship among surface elves. Possibly more diffuse among drows? Examples: Evereskan Tomb Guardians.
    EDIT. More importantly the Coronal Guard (Armathors)

  • Dwarves: NO WAY diffuse except perhaps among Duergars

  • Halflings and gnomesthe arcane trickster(rogue) fits much better with them, so no EK here too.

  • Dragonborn: do they *really* exist? Sigh… since they do, I must admit that EK fits with them, even if a fighter/sorcerer would have performed better.

  • Tiefling/Aasimar/Genasi/half-orcs: for some of them the EK could at least be partially seen as an option (not for h-orcs), but warlocks/pact of the blade or fighters/sorcerers may be way more common. EDIT. Air Genasi expecially among those coming from Abeir (Shyr Anarchists)


Exceptions may exists, of course, and as a DM I can accept them if motivated.


Here follows a list of where one can expect to find human fighters that, likely, could have chosen the Eldritch Knight archetype. I’m looking for suggestion, correction, additions to it!

Highly magical human empires:

  • Raumathari Battlemages:Even if the powers were a bit different, it seems to me the most close Forgotten Realms example for Eldritch Knights.

  • Humans of Netherese descent (including Halruaa): Among the shades probably fighters/sorcerers with Shadow origin are more common, but in Halruaa the HK seems a logical choice.

  • Nar (and to some extend present day Damara & Impiltur): warlocks with sword pact are more likely than HKs.

  • Thay: Are the Red Wizards cool with sharing magical power with ... fighters? Few EK here I assume.



Human knightly/religious orders:

  • Arcane Devotee:members of orders affiliated with magic-related deities such as Deneir, Mystra (among Knights of Mystic Fire, for example) or Savras. As guardians of their temples. Mage Killers for Azuth or Shar. Knights of the Weave for Mystra or Azuth.

  • Spellguard of Silverymoon

  • War wizards of Cormyr are more likely to be a wizards(Evokers) with the warcaster feat.

  • EDIT.Vremyonni Arcane brotherhood from Rashmen

  • EDIT.The Warlock Knights of Vaasa can also be considered Eldritch Knights




Edited by - Arioch on 06 Mar 2017 09:41:11

KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
612 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  01:47:28  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think the Eldritch Knight is this edition's nod to the Swordmage, which I believe is best set out in the aptly titled novel Swordmage, though I haven't read it yet. From the FR wiki I get that the main human swordmage of the novel learned his art in the rebuilt Myth Drannor (before it was destroyed again). Hope that helps.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5251 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  03:18:32  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As far as a culture being dominated by them, I don't necessarily see it in any of the current Faerunian societies. However, I can say that they'd be found in nearly every society. The war wizards of Cormyr would probably have some. My view of Rashemen would be that the vremyonni would have them (though my personal view of the vremyonni is that they spend a decent amount of time working against underdark threats under Rashemen). I can definitely see them in Aglarond and Baldur's Gate and Calimshan.

Also, I wrote up some improvements for this in my "Complete Red Book of Spell Strategy" on DM's Guild. I created the "Death Guard" option, which is a necromancer version of the eldritch knight with some wards. I also added a couple feats which allow you to be more of a spellcaster by combining half your levels as a fighter with levels as a wizard to be able to cast higher level spells than you would normally be able to cast with the standard multi-class rules ("cabalist necromancer" works with death guard/wizards and "raumathari battlemage" works with eldritch knight/wizards). Of course, since you're leveling as a wizard, you don't have the hit points of an eldritch knight, but you are better at spellcasting.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Arioch
Learned Scribe

Italy
220 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  06:56:12  Show Profile  Visit Arioch's Homepage Send Arioch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

I think the Eldritch Knight is this edition's nod to the Swordmage, which I believe is best set out in the aptly titled novel Swordmage, though I haven't read it yet. From the FR wiki I get that the main human swordmage of the novel learned his art in the rebuilt Myth Drannor (before it was destroyed again). Hope that helps.



The Swordmage! I completely overlooked it! Thanks, I'll edit my original post to include it... I'll add the Coronal Guard (armathors) for the elves, and the Air Genasi tradition of the Shyr Anarchists.
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Arioch
Learned Scribe

Italy
220 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  07:20:48  Show Profile  Visit Arioch's Homepage Send Arioch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

However, I can say that they'd be found in nearly every society.


It is exactly what I'm exploring here. Are they diffuse among humans as they are among dwarves, elves or halflings? Not all humans regions/cultures are the same.

Moreover: they are presented in the PHB as an alternative likely to be chosen as the others by a fighter... If this can be good setting-neutral speaking, is that really so for Forgotten Realms too?

Not fully convinced about War Wizards of Cormyr, but yes, possible considering recent warring against shades.

I fully agree on vremyonni!

In Aglarond there is a more ranger/sorcerers tradition, so I don't really see them here, but I guess you are probably right. It is a culture that may have adopted them in recent years.
No particular reason for having them in Baldur's Gate (or in any other cosmopolitan city) except for the fact that a lot of different cultures meet there.
About Calimshan I agree, because of the genesi the HK fighting style can have been passed to humans as well.

quote:

I wrote up some improvements for this in my "Complete Red Book of Spell Strategy" on DM's Guild.


I'll take a look to it!
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Zeromaru X
Learned Scribe

Colombia
243 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  08:10:03  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As already said, the Eldritch Knight can benefit from the swordmage background in 4e.

If you use the WotC canon, many War Wizards of Cormyr began to train in swordplay during the Wailing Years (the decade after the Spellplague in which magic didn't worked on Toril). When casters recovered their magic, many of those War Wizards became swordmages. The Coronal Guard of Myth Drannor also practiced a form of "sword magic" named "armathor", that was similar to the swordmage magic (was the background for a swordmage build in 4e). Nowadays, their traditions are practiced in Evereska, Evermeet, and Silverymoon, and few elves allow humans to train as armathors as well.

The genasi of Akanűl also had the traditions of swordmagic, the Anarchs of Shyr. Theirs was more aggressive and elemental magic oriented than the armathor magic. Maybe humans learned those practices as well. If you use Laerakond (Returned Abeir) in your campaign, many abeiran humans (and dragonborn) also practice this kind of swordmagic.

Toward the cobalt, there is a shining Earth. That is where sadness begins. All that we love is returning there...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 27 Jan 2017 08:11:19
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