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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1356 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2017 :  05:01:47  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Phoned it in" is the first thought that comes to mind. I'm generally not a fan of redo adventures, at least for the most part. Guess I'll have to wait and see.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13437 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2017 :  05:25:53  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finally figured out what TftYP stands for..... and MAN do I feel stupid.

quote:
Originally posted by Arivia

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

TftYP? Terrible for the Younger Players?

Ya'll are complaining about no Undermountain love, but there was a time ( *cough* 4e *cough*) when a lot of us were glad when our favorite regions got ignored; just imagine what would have become of Undermountain had the 4e team given it any thought...

"Once a part of the Forgotten Realms, the mega-dungeon of Undermountain has now shifted into the Shadowfell and the Domains of Dread! While most of the 'old ways' into Undermountain somehow remained intact, new gates have opened to countless other worlds, awaiting eager (foolish?) adventurers to plumb its depths!"

At least it remained in FR, and fairly stable, compared to so many other things.

Then again, Ravenloft COULD use a 'Night Below', and Halaster WOULD make a heckuva Domain Lord... Hmmmm....



You're forgetting that there WAS a 4e Undermountain product in the latter half of the edition, Markus.

It's not terrible, actually - it does try to genericize it for any D&D setting, but otherwise it's basically a series of adventures set through level 1 with a writeup of the level and a map included.


I didn't forget - I was completely unaware of it, as I am of most of the 4e products. I only played 3PF during that 'era'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jan 2017 05:26:37
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
376 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2017 :  03:24:51  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone

And yet nothing about the GREATEST D&D Dungeon at all: UNDERMOUNTAIN...



No, you mean Caverns of Thracia.

And, yes, I have run it in the Realms. :)

Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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farinal
Learned Scribe

Turkey
211 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2017 :  21:51:53  Show Profile Send farinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just preordered mine. I am very excited about this product. Can't wait to run those classic dungeons with my 5E group.

"Show some respect!" the draegloth thundered. "You adress High Priestess Quenthel Baenre, Mistress of Arach-Tinilith, Mistress of the Academy, Mistress of Tier Breche, First Sister of House Baenre of Menzoberranzan... you insolent dog!"
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  07:16:13  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

The most basic premise of 'The Forgotten Realms'- from the very beginning - is that it is a collection of Realms (not unlike RL's Domains) that have been known on other worlds through a multitude of 'planer connections', that not only connect Toril's 'Realms' to other worldly locations, but also to other periods in time on those worlds. Many of these 'eldritch pathways' have now been long forgotten (hence THE TITLE of the setting). Earth was just one of many worlds Abeir-Toril was well-connected to.

So Shadowsoul, I'm just not understanding your statement, "They are trying to turn the Realms into something it's never been in all the years it's been printed. It's amazing how it's suddenly become this hub for beyond otherly travellers."

As a world/setting, its always been 'a hub', its just been largely forgotten about (once again, hence the title). All I see them doing is focusing more on an aspect they used to sweep under the rug (during the 2e era, it was paramount to keep all the settings 'distinct' and 'separate'... even though they connected them all with three over-settings).

As for Durnan, you are assuming a LOT there. I don't recall ANY conversation with Durnan, EVER. For all I know he made have climbed Everest with some Gnomes from Mount Nevermind just to defeat Strahd and his spelljamming crew of Darksun half-giants from taking over Aebrynis in his younger days.

And the Yawning Portal sits atop Undermountain, home to Halaster Blackcloak - a guy who is literally an Imaskari 'Portal Master' (you recall the Imaskari, right? The guys that collected people from other worlds.)

Would the World Serpent Inn have been the smarter choice? Probably... but maybe there's a connection between that inn and the YP that we haven't heard about before (or that was added post-3e). One of those 'private club' secret-password type thingies (after all, we wouldn't want EVERYONE taking a nifty shortcut like that). In fact, it might not be such a bad idea for them add something like that in canon - it would help bridge their current area of focus (Sword Coast North) with the rest of the Heartlands.*

I just don't think is much of a stretch at all, especially concerning Oerth/GH - a world that is closely affiliated with The Realms and always has been (Drow became famous there first, no matter what that Drizzit fella tells ya').



*And how hard is this to do? Lets see... Galipagrinor Harpell, recently returned from one his many other-worldy romps, shows up at the World Serpent Inn. Eager to get back to his family and entertain them with his latest exploits, he decides to open a gate from the WSI to the Yawning Portal... not really a great idea under the best of circumstances, given the nature of the WSI (and there is at least one canon gate that goes from Waterdeep to the Harpel's home). Why not open the gate directly to the other Harpels? Because their compound is protected from that sort of invasive magic, naturally. Only an already fixed portal of their making could be used, and he decides to use this round-about method to get there as quickly as possible.

So he waves his hands and recites some mystical mumbo-jumbo, and the gate begins to open (directly into the main room of the Yawning Portal), and a strange, blue 'wave' passes through him and the entire World Serpent Inn, causing MUCH mayhem in the process, as magics go wild and some even explode. You see, the year is 1385 DR, and our friend Galipagrinor just had the worst luck imaginable. Not only is the gate now 'stuck' (permanent), but his spirit is bound to it (his body was turned to ash instantly when the Cerulean wave passed through him while he was casting dimensional magics).

The WSI has been repaired, and the new gate is now behind a locked door, and on the YP end it is behind a tapestry hanging on one wall of the main dining room. Only very power people and Harper-friends are allowed to use it... and the occasional other-worldy visitor who has busness in Waterdeep he/she needs to tend to badly (someone like Mordenkainen).




The problem with this is there are very few products over the years that have actually carried on with this whole "other worlds" concept. How come we don't have more deities from other worlds, or mentions of the other settings/worlds in the various products? Do you know for certain that when the Realms was deemed a crossroads it was a crossroads with connections to the other settings? We know for certain that Earth is the other world that is mentioned a lot in various products. Wizards is basically trying to shoe horn these adventures into the Realms and make the claim that this is how it's been all along. Planescape is widely known as the crossroads of all worlds/settings.

There is nothing wrong with a book of classic adventures but please don't sit there and try to spin the tale about this kind of thing has been in the Realms all along and that it makes sense. If there was a lot more info in the products through the years to back this up then yeah I could see your point, but we have what 2 or 3 products that deal with another setting/world? What's the expression in the States? I don't drink the Cool-Aid?

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29893 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  10:22:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No one at all has made the argument that all these dungeons are in the Realms.

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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  15:56:42  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

No one at all has made the argument that all these dungeons are in the Realms.



I know so not sure what you are talking about.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29893 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  16:40:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm talking about this comment:

quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

There is nothing wrong with a book of classic adventures but please don't sit there and try to spin the tale about this kind of thing has been in the Realms all along and that it makes sense.



Perhaps I misunderstood you, but it seemed that the argument was being put forth that these dungeons were in the Realms.

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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
280 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  05:49:47  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They don't have to be in the Realms. From my understanding, these are smaller adventures (modules) that can be conveniently placed anywhere. Anywhere in the Realms. Anywhere in the NOT-Realms.

And I prefer it that way.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  07:09:58  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

They don't have to be in the Realms. From my understanding, these are smaller adventures (modules) that can be conveniently placed anywhere. Anywhere in the Realms. Anywhere in the NOT-Realms.

And I prefer it that way.




Then what they should have done was create a generic D&D book of adventures which contains explanations of why they would be found in other settings instead of trying to establish some kind of silly and over reaching lore that connects them with the Realms.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3292 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  07:13:48  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Does it have the realms logo on it. If so then its a realms book and the stuff in it should be set in the realms or connected to the realms in some way.

If it doesnt then its not and its just some suggestions of dungeons and where to put them.

Although if it was up to me anything 4e onwards wouldnt have a realms logo on it

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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31688 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  07:37:28  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Does it have the realms logo on it. If so then its a realms book and the stuff in it should be set in the realms or connected to the realms in some way.
That's not really applicable, though, since the FR logo has largely been missing on Wizards RPG products since 4e D&D.

Granted, the few Realms novels that have been released, recently, only have the "FORGOTTEN REALMS" tag in separated branding elsewhere on the product, but I've yet to see that utilised on any of these 5e gamebooks published thus far.

It seems likely that Wizards will just continue with their current trend of including Realms material in these kinds of products, whilst also attempting to cater for other non-Realms consumers as well, by featuring generic and/or non-Realms-specific material.

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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
634 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  08:27:34  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For those interested in the product itself, it looks like the book will give the Yawning Portal a little character too. The first three pages of the book have been uploaded as a preview. Not anything hugely substantial or anything, but for those who like to keep up with developments... LINK

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3292 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  09:00:42  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Shows up the last time i bought a realms product.

Im glad the new ones dont have the realms logo, they arent really set in the realms

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29893 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  10:02:49  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

They don't have to be in the Realms. From my understanding, these are smaller adventures (modules) that can be conveniently placed anywhere. Anywhere in the Realms. Anywhere in the NOT-Realms.

And I prefer it that way.




Then what they should have done was create a generic D&D book of adventures which contains explanations of why they would be found in other settings instead of trying to establish some kind of silly and over reaching lore that connects them with the Realms.



Trying to establish over-reaching lore that connects other settings to the Realms? You mean, the lore that has existed since at least 2E?

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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  16:49:07  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Shows up the last time i bought a realms product.

Im glad the new ones dont have the realms logo, they arent really set in the realms



Problem here is it has The Yawning Portal in the title as well as using Durnan so it is a Realms product. That would be like coming out with a product about Evermeet and because it doesn't contain a FR logo it isn't a Realms product.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  16:55:26  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

They don't have to be in the Realms. From my understanding, these are smaller adventures (modules) that can be conveniently placed anywhere. Anywhere in the Realms. Anywhere in the NOT-Realms.

And I prefer it that way.




Then what they should have done was create a generic D&D book of adventures which contains explanations of why they would be found in other settings instead of trying to establish some kind of silly and over reaching lore that connects them with the Realms.



Trying to establish over-reaching lore that connects other settings to the Realms? You mean, the lore that has existed since at least 2E?



Oh you mean like the sparse info that would pop up very rarely? You have the likes of Castle Spulzeer and for Duty and Glory but we all aware of the connection with Ravenloft. Show me all these products that contain such common info about the other settings they would be talked about in the Yawning Portal. I know in the old grey box it had a small mention about Khelben having a run in with Bigby but that's about it. If going from one setting to the next was so easily done with teleporting or portals then we would have loads of crossover during the years.

I'm afraid we haven't so after all these years it's suddenly commonplace is reaching.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29893 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  17:10:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Who said it was commonplace? Just because a well-known adventurer, more than a century old, parked directly over the world's most well-known dungeon, in one of the biggest cities in the world, knows a few tales, it doesn't mean that back and forth travel is commonplace.

Also, nothing says that all the tales were first-hand accounts or that he was hearing three new ones every night. He's in a place where people tell tales, surrounded by people who would tell tales.

Hells, for all we know, Durnan himself has traveled to Oerth and back, and he's relaying what he heard there.

All that we know is that there are tales told by Durnan. That's it. Nothing more.

You've been attacking this book, based on nothing more than assumptions, for literally two months now -- since January 6th. How about waiting until it's out, and speaking on what it actually is, instead of attacking something that isn't what you're making it out to be?

If the book comes out and says all these places are in the Realms and that Uber offers discounts to travel between them, then there is reason to complain. If it has people bopping back and forth between the different settings with barely more than an "Ibbity bibbity bobbity boo," then there is reason to complain. Until the book is out, though, and we know exactly what's in it, we can't complain about. That's like complaining about next month's weather -- yeah, you may think you know what's coming, but it's not certain until it's here.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Mar 2017 18:42:58
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3292 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  19:41:09  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But you wont be surprised if its cold and raining in winter and hot in summer (geographical variances apply of course)

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29893 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  21:02:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

But you wont be surprised if its cold and raining in winter and hot in summer (geographical variances apply of course)



But you can't complain, today, about the rainfall on August 12th, 2017, at 3PM, because you don't know that it's going to rain that day, or when it will rain if it does, or how heavy the rainfall will be if it does rain. You don't know, today, because August 12th, 2017, isn't here yet.

That's my point. If a product isn't even in print yet, its specific content cannot be judged.

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Cyrinishad
Learned Scribe

230 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2017 :  21:07:27  Show Profile Send Cyrinishad a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am happy that they are continuing the trend of revealing that every world is connected to the Realms in some way, shape, or form... There is really zero downside to this, it just creates more possibilities... and overtly confirms the assumptions that many of us have been operating under for decades... That ultimately all Portals lead to the Realms.

To know, is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge. -Socrates

Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened. -Dr. Seuss

Edited by - Cyrinishad on 08 Mar 2017 21:10:35
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  06:52:36  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Who said it was commonplace? Just because a well-known adventurer, more than a century old, parked directly over the world's most well-known dungeon, in one of the biggest cities in the world, knows a few tales, it doesn't mean that back and forth travel is commonplace.

Also, nothing says that all the tales were first-hand accounts or that he was hearing three new ones every night. He's in a place where people tell tales, surrounded by people who would tell tales.

Hells, for all we know, Durnan himself has traveled to Oerth and back, and he's relaying what he heard there.

All that we know is that there are tales told by Durnan. That's it. Nothing more.

You've been attacking this book, based on nothing more than assumptions, for literally two months now -- since January 6th. How about waiting until it's out, and speaking on what it actually is, instead of attacking something that isn't what you're making it out to be?

If the book comes out and says all these places are in the Realms and that Uber offers discounts to travel between them, then there is reason to complain. If it has people bopping back and forth between the different settings with barely more than an "Ibbity bibbity bobbity boo," then there is reason to complain. Until the book is out, though, and we know exactly what's in it, we can't complain about. That's like complaining about next month's weather -- yeah, you may think you know what's coming, but it's not certain until it's here.


Explain to me how they traveled to other settings then. How exacty did Durnan travel to Oerth? Also, when something becomes pub talk then it's common place. I could understand if this information was found in ancient texts that were uncovered but that's not the case. The Yawning Portal has never been a crossroads stop over for extra dimensional travel. If you read the 3rd editon product Expedition to Undermountain it gives you a perfect description of the talk that floats around the Inn, it's all about Undermountain. The Yawning Portal was used as a sales pitch for this product followed some half arsed, far reaching explanation to tie it all to the Realms.

I don't always need the full product in my hand to what it's going to be like, I have a talent for knowing these things with only small bits of information, that's why I'm also very good at my job. I can see right through Wizards on this so you aren't going to change my mind.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  06:54:04  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cyrinishad

I am happy that they are continuing the trend of revealing that every world is connected to the Realms in some way, shape, or form... There is really zero downside to this, it just creates more possibilities... and overtly confirms the assumptions that many of us have been operating under for decades... That ultimately all Portals lead to the Realms.



I don't because it's a cheap sales pitch and it's lazy design. It also doesn't mesh with all the years of lore we've gotten in the past.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
634 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  07:29:45  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Even the earliest FR books talked about visitors from other planes being in Waterdeep. There was a whole book about Realmspace and travelling between crystal spheres written over 20 years ago. The Wizards Three implied links for years.

You've made up your mind though, don't see anyone convincing you. Certainly no one's going to force you to buy the product! If it doesn't suit whatever you want to do with your life, you certainly shouldn't drop any of your hardearned cash on it.

It's just a bunch of old adventures with a dash of Realmslore as an intro to spice things up, I don't really get the fuss tbh. I like the 5e system and I'm playing in the 1490s Realms, but I'm not even sure I'll pick this up myself, other than to give Tomb of Horrors a whirl sometime (though not in my FR game).

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
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Posted - 09 Mar 2017 :  09:45:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Who said it was commonplace? Just because a well-known adventurer, more than a century old, parked directly over the world's most well-known dungeon, in one of the biggest cities in the world, knows a few tales, it doesn't mean that back and forth travel is commonplace.

Also, nothing says that all the tales were first-hand accounts or that he was hearing three new ones every night. He's in a place where people tell tales, surrounded by people who would tell tales.

Hells, for all we know, Durnan himself has traveled to Oerth and back, and he's relaying what he heard there.

All that we know is that there are tales told by Durnan. That's it. Nothing more.

You've been attacking this book, based on nothing more than assumptions, for literally two months now -- since January 6th. How about waiting until it's out, and speaking on what it actually is, instead of attacking something that isn't what you're making it out to be?

If the book comes out and says all these places are in the Realms and that Uber offers discounts to travel between them, then there is reason to complain. If it has people bopping back and forth between the different settings with barely more than an "Ibbity bibbity bobbity boo," then there is reason to complain. Until the book is out, though, and we know exactly what's in it, we can't complain about. That's like complaining about next month's weather -- yeah, you may think you know what's coming, but it's not certain until it's here.


Explain to me how they traveled to other settings then. How exacty did Durnan travel to Oerth? Also, when something becomes pub talk then it's common place. I could understand if this information was found in ancient texts that were uncovered but that's not the case. The Yawning Portal has never been a crossroads stop over for extra dimensional travel. If you read the 3rd editon product Expedition to Undermountain it gives you a perfect description of the talk that floats around the Inn, it's all about Undermountain. The Yawning Portal was used as a sales pitch for this product followed some half arsed, far reaching explanation to tie it all to the Realms.

I don't always need the full product in my hand to what it's going to be like, I have a talent for knowing these things with only small bits of information, that's why I'm also very good at my job. I can see right through Wizards on this so you aren't going to change my mind.



I wish I had a job where facts could be utterly ignored and making a wild guess based on nothing at all was considered doing good.

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