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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jan 2017 : 16:14:08
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quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
So basically Wizards doesn't even know their own IP, or just think everyone else is stupid, because The Yawning Portal doesn't contain an actual dimensional portal but a well that serves as an entrance to Undermountain.
What? Where did they claim it did? They have thus far only talked about the well... no extradimensional portals as far as I've read. I'd be interested to see that quote.
Also, who said it was "common tavern talk"? The impression I'm getting is that Durnan is telling some wild stories about stuff he's heard from passers through. The Realms has received visitors from many planes since the very first books, I don't see they couldn't have visited the most fantastic inn in arguably the #1 on Faerun's TripAdvisor list! And even then, they may have only told Durnan their story, and he only busts out his best stories when the famously reticent old bugger feels like it...
This seems to be just an adventure anthology wrapped up in a little Realms by Durnan telling stories about things that happened elsewhere. No need to buy it if you don't want the old remastered (with Schley maps) adventures, but I don't see it as a reason to claim the designers think we're stupid or that it's a fail. But oh well.
From all we know about Durnan and through all the books and supplements we've gotten over the years, how many actually talk about other worlds such as Oerth, Krynn, etc except Spelljammer? Durnan wouldn't know these other places exist. He would mayne know about other planes if existence that reside in the Abeir-Toril sphere but not outside of that. They are basically trying to make the Yawning Portal like some crossroads inn from Sigil where otherworldly travelers come to swap stories. Look at the name of the inn, if you are Realms ignorant then you would most likely associate "portal" with something extra dimensional.
I see exactly what they're trying to do here. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2017 : 17:46:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
From all we know about Durnan and through all the books and supplements we've gotten over the years, how many actually talk about other worlds such as Oerth, Krynn, etc except Spelljammer? Durnan wouldn't know these other places exist. He would mayne know about other planes if existence that reside in the Abeir-Toril sphere but not outside of that. They are basically trying to make the Yawning Portal like some crossroads inn from Sigil where otherworldly travelers come to swap stories. Look at the name of the inn, if you are Realms ignorant then you would most likely associate "portal" with something extra dimensional.
I see exactly what they're trying to do here.
We have a whole century where we don't know what Durnan was doing... And on top of that, most of what little we do know about him is mostly from his association with Mirt.
And just how many examples of tavern talk from the Yawning Portal do we have? And with Undermountain having at least one known portal to elsewhere in Realmspace, and a whole mess of portals to all over the Realms, why is it so unreasonable to assume one or more might go beyond the Realms? Heck, we know of one planar portal under the Yawning Portal....
And even if we don't go that route, why is it so unreasonable to assume that if adventurers from elsewhere do wind up in the Realms, they might wind up in one of the setting's most prominent cities, in a tavern known to be very friendly to adventurers?
Is this the best approach they could have taken? No. But it's not the worst, and it's not like they're claiming this product is anything other than a collection of updated reprints from various settings. I get not being interested in it, and I get the general dissatisfaction with WotC -- Lurue knows I'm feeling that dissatisfaction, myself.
But attacking a product for being something it isn't and doesn't claim to be is over-reacting, thinks I, especially when that product isn't even out. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2017 : 19:54:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
From all we know about Durnan and through all the books and supplements we've gotten over the years, how many actually talk about other worlds such as Oerth, Krynn, etc except Spelljammer? Durnan wouldn't know these other places exist. He would mayne know about other planes if existence that reside in the Abeir-Toril sphere but not outside of that. They are basically trying to make the Yawning Portal like some crossroads inn from Sigil where otherworldly travelers come to swap stories. Look at the name of the inn, if you are Realms ignorant then you would most likely associate "portal" with something extra dimensional.
I see exactly what they're trying to do here.
We have a whole century where we don't know what Durnan was doing... And on top of that, most of what little we do know about him is mostly from his association with Mirt.
And just how many examples of tavern talk from the Yawning Portal do we have? And with Undermountain having at least one known portal to elsewhere in Realmspace, and a whole mess of portals to all over the Realms, why is it so unreasonable to assume one or more might go beyond the Realms? Heck, we know of one planar portal under the Yawning Portal....
And even if we don't go that route, why is it so unreasonable to assume that if adventurers from elsewhere do wind up in the Realms, they might wind up in one of the setting's most prominent cities, in a tavern known to be very friendly to adventurers?
Is this the best approach they could have taken? No. But it's not the worst, and it's not like they're claiming this product is anything other than a collection of updated reprints from various settings. I get not being interested in it, and I get the general dissatisfaction with WotC -- Lurue knows I'm feeling that dissatisfaction, myself.
But attacking a product for being something it isn't and doesn't claim to be is over-reacting, thinks I, especially when that product isn't even out.
Look, all this is is another lazy stunt by Wizards to mesh the worlds together so they don't have to go and print other settings. The Realms has become a dumping ground and when you are very familiar with the comings of goings of the Realms for many years you see right through it. They are trying to turn the Realms into something it's never been in all the years it's been printed. It's amazing how it's suddenly become this hub for beyond otherly travellers.
What they are doing now is essentially what should have been done with a generic world like the Points of Light one they had for 4th edition. They could have made it the nexus in the universe that allows a connection to all the spheres.
It's extremely lazy design because they want to save a few bob. Oh yeah and by the way, they are going against everything they've ever said with regards to the Realms and "just printing the same material again". They are essentially giving chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry icecream in one giant container with it all mixed in instead of individually because there are some of us who really aren't mad into chocolate, or vanilla, or strawberry. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jan 2017 : 20:13:30
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How is it a lazy attempt to mesh worlds together? There have always been connections between the various settings, and the only thing this book does is say that these connections have been used. It is not dumping anything, anywhere.
And they're not "going against everything they've ever said with regards to the Realms" when the book contains mostly non-Realms material.
Again, all this book is is a collection of updated dungeons, from multiple settings. It is not anything else. It does not put all the dungeons in one place, and it's not creating any connections that didn't already exist.
At worst, it's saying that a guy who is well over 200 years old (THO confirmed Durnan was over 100, back in the days of 3E), and who has had an inn sitting over and directly connected to a place that's literally connected to many points beyond the Realms, has heard of some of these other places.
Why this is so utterly abhorrent is beyond me. I'd be more surprised if Durnan hadn't heard of any places beyond the Realms. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 06 Jan 2017 20:22:33 |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jan 2017 : 19:15:01
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| Maybe it could have been titled "Volo's Campfire Tales" |
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Cryton
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 02:58:28
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Hmmm. Interesting.
I have already run White Plume Mountain for my players having done a conversion to 5th edition for it myself, it will be interesting to see the new "official" take on WPM.
One would thought that with a name like "Tales from the Yawning Portal" the book would have covered Undermountain and Skullport. Oh well.
As a side not: it is kind of funny, that if you have been paying attention, they told us that these conversions were coming. How you ask? The clues are all over the PHB, MM and DMG. Oh look, Strahd is in the MM, Oh look 5th ed Ravenloft. Oh look, all the weapons from White Plume Mountain, and Return to White Plume Mountain are in the DMG, Oh look...they are putting out a new WPM! Oh look! There are other clues for you to find as to whats next and still coming too!
In any case, as most of the modules they are covering in the book are considered to be "the classic D&D experience", I think I am looking forward to it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 03:39:05
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The most basic premise of 'The Forgotten Realms'- from the very beginning - is that it is a collection of Realms (not unlike RL's Domains) that have been known on other worlds through a multitude of 'planer connections', that not only connect Toril's 'Realms' to other worldly locations, but also to other periods in time on those worlds. Many of these 'eldritch pathways' have now been long forgotten (hence THE TITLE of the setting). Earth was just one of many worlds Abeir-Toril was well-connected to.
So Shadowsoul, I'm just not understanding your statement, "They are trying to turn the Realms into something it's never been in all the years it's been printed. It's amazing how it's suddenly become this hub for beyond otherly travellers."
As a world/setting, its always been 'a hub', its just been largely forgotten about (once again, hence the title). All I see them doing is focusing more on an aspect they used to sweep under the rug (during the 2e era, it was paramount to keep all the settings 'distinct' and 'separate'... even though they connected them all with three over-settings).
As for Durnan, you are assuming a LOT there. I don't recall ANY conversation with Durnan, EVER. For all I know he made have climbed Everest with some Gnomes from Mount Nevermind just to defeat Strahd and his spelljamming crew of Darksun half-giants from taking over Aebrynis in his younger days.
And the Yawning Portal sits atop Undermountain, home to Halaster Blackcloak - a guy who is literally an Imaskari 'Portal Master' (you recall the Imaskari, right? The guys that collected people from other worlds.)
Would the World Serpent Inn have been the smarter choice? Probably... but maybe there's a connection between that inn and the YP that we haven't heard about before (or that was added post-3e). One of those 'private club' secret-password type thingies (after all, we wouldn't want EVERYONE taking a nifty shortcut like that). In fact, it might not be such a bad idea for them add something like that in canon - it would help bridge their current area of focus (Sword Coast North) with the rest of the Heartlands.*
I just don't think is much of a stretch at all, especially concerning Oerth/GH - a world that is closely affiliated with The Realms and always has been (Drow became famous there first, no matter what that Drizzit fella tells ya').
*And how hard is this to do? Lets see... Galipagrinor Harpell, recently returned from one his many other-worldy romps, shows up at the World Serpent Inn. Eager to get back to his family and entertain them with his latest exploits, he decides to open a gate from the WSI to the Yawning Portal... not really a great idea under the best of circumstances, given the nature of the WSI (and there is at least one canon gate that goes from Waterdeep to the Harpel's home). Why not open the gate directly to the other Harpels? Because their compound is protected from that sort of invasive magic, naturally. Only an already fixed portal of their making could be used, and he decides to use this round-about method to get there as quickly as possible.
So he waves his hands and recites some mystical mumbo-jumbo, and the gate begins to open (directly into the main room of the Yawning Portal), and a strange, blue 'wave' passes through him and the entire World Serpent Inn, causing MUCH mayhem in the process, as magics go wild and some even explode. You see, the year is 1385 DR, and our friend Galipagrinor just had the worst luck imaginable. Not only is the gate now 'stuck' (permanent), but his spirit is bound to it (his body was turned to ash instantly when the Cerulean wave passed through him while he was casting dimensional magics).
The WSI has been repaired, and the new gate is now behind a locked door, and on the YP end it is behind a tapestry hanging on one wall of the main dining room. Only very power people and Harper-friends are allowed to use it... and the occasional other-worldy visitor who has busness in Waterdeep he/she needs to tend to badly (someone like Mordenkainen). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jan 2017 03:44:32 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 06:12:00
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| WotC could put four or five books out on Undermountain and barely scratch the surface. It makes sense that they would want to rehash the "Classic D&D Experience". They really don't have to be creative, and Undermountain could in their eyes seem rather daunting to "rehash". |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 15:46:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
WotC could put four or five books out on Undermountain and barely scratch the surface. It makes sense that they would want to rehash the "Classic D&D Experience". They really don't have to be creative, and Undermountain could in their eyes seem rather daunting to "rehash".
And their last game contact with it was underwhelming. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 16:02:09
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| Lol that is when someone on DM's Guild produces a proper "Tales from the Yawning Portal" and updates Undermountain Level by level. WotC probably wont do it. Maybe this is their way of saying have at Scribes of Candlekeep. Do your thing... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 08 Jan 2017 16:03:01 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 16:23:03
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The thinking, then, is that the name and maybe the basic idea of the Yawning Portal Inn is a draw to enough people for it to be worth using it in the title, but most of these people won't mind that the book isn't about the Yawning Portal and only includes one scenario set in the Realms, and not one of the best or most famous?
As for Undermountain, what we need is the original levels below the third -- pity the optimal time to publish them passed more than twenty years ago. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 17:21:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The thinking, then, is that the name and maybe the basic idea of the Yawning Portal Inn is a draw to enough people for it to be worth using it in the title, but most of these people won't mind that the book isn't about the Yawning Portal and only includes one scenario set in the Realms, and not one of the best or most famous?
Oh, I mind it. And when I buy this book, it's going to be from somewhere that I'm not paying anywhere near the full price -- even if it means waiting a while for it.
I want them to put some time and talent into producing some worthy Realms content. We've had dribs and drabs here and there, but they've not given us anything truly noteworthy in a while.
I'll readily say if a product is not what I want them to do (and in this case, it is not), and if a product does not appear to be of interest, I'll say that, as well. If I'm not sure, I'll either say I'm not sure, or simply say nothing.
But what I'm not going to do is attack a product for not being something it doesn't claim to be. And I will not attack a product I have not actually laid eyes on. That kind of negativity has become far too prevalent.
My opinions on how WotC's handling the Realms are just as negative as anyone else's -- but I'll not do the kneejerk attacks or assume malice because I disagree with something. I try to be reasonable and look at things from angles other than "they're not doing what I want." And that's why I'll defend them when I think they're attacked unfairly, even if I don't like their actions, either.
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
As for Undermountain, what we need is the original levels below the third -- pity the optimal time to publish them passed more than twenty years ago.
Oh ye gods, yes. Throw some money at Ed and Steven and let them give us some quality Undermountain... Knowing Ed, he's likely got reams of material waiting to see the light of day, and anything he handed over would be worth twice what WotC paid for it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 18:39:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
The thinking, then, is that the name and maybe the basic idea of the Yawning Portal Inn is a draw to enough people for it to be worth using it in the title, but most of these people won't mind that the book isn't about the Yawning Portal and only includes one scenario set in the Realms, and not one of the best or most famous?
As for Undermountain, what we need is the original levels below the third -- pity the optimal time to publish them passed more than twenty years ago.
For what its worth, its obviously aimed at 5e (gamer) fans, and not 'Realms fans'. They slapped a locale on it to frame it within their current area of focus, and then reprint some of their classics so people can play them. Thats all this is.
I think the problem here is that people still have expectations. Mine died long ago (probably around 2007). You have to just let the old Realms go and understand these are just game products now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Jan 2017 18:42:10 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4429 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jan 2017 : 19:32:30
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| My only problem with this is that they ALREADY converted Tomb of Horrors to 5th edition in Dungeon mag #193. They couldn't do another one? |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2017 : 07:00:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
WotC could put four or five books out on Undermountain and barely scratch the surface. It makes sense that they would want to rehash the "Classic D&D Experience". They really don't have to be creative, and Undermountain could in their eyes seem rather daunting to "rehash".
Yes. A 5th Edition Undermountain book would be (should be!) a single tome dedicated all to itself. It would be a disservice if they decided to "shoehorn" a half-hearted (5e) Undermountain campaign within this book of multiple adventures.
I still want them to come out with a new Undermountain campaign/mega-dungeon adventure for 5E. But they should take their time to do it right. I can wait, as long as they do it right. :) |
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Rils
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jan 2017 : 22:43:41
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The Adventurer’s League team has said that the next season of AL will be tied to TftYP, but set in the Realms. They also stated they are moving the AL geography from the Moonsea to Waterdeep for this season. Based on the way they have previously incorporated the published adventures with the AL adventures, there are a lot of people expecting that the AL adventures will deal with Undermountain.
People have been asking for shorter 5e adventures ever since it was published. Personally, I think this is an interesting way to accomplish it. Tall tales told by adventurers in a pub – “Oh yeah?! Well orcs ain’t nothing! This one time we went to this place called The Tomb of Horrors…” It’s actually kind of a funny visual. It’s an in-game analog to real life cons and gamer-pubs where all us gamers sit around comparing adventure war stories. It’s exactly what the title says – tales heard/told in the Yawning Portal.
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Dugmaren Brightmantle is my homey. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2017 : 00:16:23
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TftYP? Terrible for the Younger Players?
Ya'll are complaining about no Undermountain love, but there was a time ( *cough* 4e *cough*) when a lot of us were glad when our favorite regions got ignored; just imagine what would have become of Undermountain had the 4e team given it any thought...
"Once a part of the Forgotten Realms, the mega-dungeon of Undermountain has now shifted into the Shadowfell and the Domains of Dread! While most of the 'old ways' into Undermountain somehow remained intact, new gates have opened to countless other worlds, awaiting eager (foolish?) adventurers to plumb its depths!"
At least it remained in FR, and fairly stable, compared to so many other things.
Then again, Ravenloft COULD use a 'Night Below', and Halaster WOULD make a heckuva Domain Lord... Hmmmm.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Jan 2017 00:17:43 |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2017 : 01:33:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
TftYP? Terrible for the Younger Players?
Youngsters would make poor members of a dungeon crawl group. Their bedtimes would often come just before the DM unleashes all the wandering monsters. |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 10 Jan 2017 : 09:02:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
TftYP? Terrible for the Younger Players?
Ya'll are complaining about no Undermountain love, but there was a time ( *cough* 4e *cough*) when a lot of us were glad when our favorite regions got ignored; just imagine what would have become of Undermountain had the 4e team given it any thought...
"Once a part of the Forgotten Realms, the mega-dungeon of Undermountain has now shifted into the Shadowfell and the Domains of Dread! While most of the 'old ways' into Undermountain somehow remained intact, new gates have opened to countless other worlds, awaiting eager (foolish?) adventurers to plumb its depths!"
At least it remained in FR, and fairly stable, compared to so many other things.
Then again, Ravenloft COULD use a 'Night Below', and Halaster WOULD make a heckuva Domain Lord... Hmmmm....
You're forgetting that there WAS a 4e Undermountain product in the latter half of the edition, Markus.
It's not terrible, actually - it does try to genericize it for any D&D setting, but otherwise it's basically a series of adventures set through level 1 with a writeup of the level and a map included. |
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Elren_Wolfsbane
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jan 2017 : 16:15:30
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| I'm excited to see this new product. Hopefully I can incorporate it in my campaign... Somehow |
Aa' lasser en`coialle n`natula brown.
(May the leaves of your life tree never turn brown)
-Elren Wolfsbane |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2017 : 05:01:47
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| "Phoned it in" is the first thought that comes to mind. I'm generally not a fan of redo adventures, at least for the most part. Guess I'll have to wait and see. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jan 2017 : 05:25:53
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I finally figured out what TftYP stands for..... and MAN do I feel stupid. 
quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
TftYP? Terrible for the Younger Players?
Ya'll are complaining about no Undermountain love, but there was a time ( *cough* 4e *cough*) when a lot of us were glad when our favorite regions got ignored; just imagine what would have become of Undermountain had the 4e team given it any thought...
"Once a part of the Forgotten Realms, the mega-dungeon of Undermountain has now shifted into the Shadowfell and the Domains of Dread! While most of the 'old ways' into Undermountain somehow remained intact, new gates have opened to countless other worlds, awaiting eager (foolish?) adventurers to plumb its depths!"
At least it remained in FR, and fairly stable, compared to so many other things.
Then again, Ravenloft COULD use a 'Night Below', and Halaster WOULD make a heckuva Domain Lord... Hmmmm....
You're forgetting that there WAS a 4e Undermountain product in the latter half of the edition, Markus.
It's not terrible, actually - it does try to genericize it for any D&D setting, but otherwise it's basically a series of adventures set through level 1 with a writeup of the level and a map included.
I didn't forget - I was completely unaware of it, as I am of most of the 4e products. I only played 3PF during that 'era'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jan 2017 05:26:37 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2017 : 03:24:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
And yet nothing about the GREATEST D&D Dungeon at all: UNDERMOUNTAIN...
No, you mean Caverns of Thracia.
And, yes, I have run it in the Realms. :) |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2017 : 21:51:53
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| Just preordered mine. I am very excited about this product. Can't wait to run those classic dungeons with my 5E group. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2017 : 07:16:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The most basic premise of 'The Forgotten Realms'- from the very beginning - is that it is a collection of Realms (not unlike RL's Domains) that have been known on other worlds through a multitude of 'planer connections', that not only connect Toril's 'Realms' to other worldly locations, but also to other periods in time on those worlds. Many of these 'eldritch pathways' have now been long forgotten (hence THE TITLE of the setting). Earth was just one of many worlds Abeir-Toril was well-connected to.
So Shadowsoul, I'm just not understanding your statement, "They are trying to turn the Realms into something it's never been in all the years it's been printed. It's amazing how it's suddenly become this hub for beyond otherly travellers."
As a world/setting, its always been 'a hub', its just been largely forgotten about (once again, hence the title). All I see them doing is focusing more on an aspect they used to sweep under the rug (during the 2e era, it was paramount to keep all the settings 'distinct' and 'separate'... even though they connected them all with three over-settings).
As for Durnan, you are assuming a LOT there. I don't recall ANY conversation with Durnan, EVER. For all I know he made have climbed Everest with some Gnomes from Mount Nevermind just to defeat Strahd and his spelljamming crew of Darksun half-giants from taking over Aebrynis in his younger days.
And the Yawning Portal sits atop Undermountain, home to Halaster Blackcloak - a guy who is literally an Imaskari 'Portal Master' (you recall the Imaskari, right? The guys that collected people from other worlds.)
Would the World Serpent Inn have been the smarter choice? Probably... but maybe there's a connection between that inn and the YP that we haven't heard about before (or that was added post-3e). One of those 'private club' secret-password type thingies (after all, we wouldn't want EVERYONE taking a nifty shortcut like that). In fact, it might not be such a bad idea for them add something like that in canon - it would help bridge their current area of focus (Sword Coast North) with the rest of the Heartlands.*
I just don't think is much of a stretch at all, especially concerning Oerth/GH - a world that is closely affiliated with The Realms and always has been (Drow became famous there first, no matter what that Drizzit fella tells ya').
*And how hard is this to do? Lets see... Galipagrinor Harpell, recently returned from one his many other-worldy romps, shows up at the World Serpent Inn. Eager to get back to his family and entertain them with his latest exploits, he decides to open a gate from the WSI to the Yawning Portal... not really a great idea under the best of circumstances, given the nature of the WSI (and there is at least one canon gate that goes from Waterdeep to the Harpel's home). Why not open the gate directly to the other Harpels? Because their compound is protected from that sort of invasive magic, naturally. Only an already fixed portal of their making could be used, and he decides to use this round-about method to get there as quickly as possible.
So he waves his hands and recites some mystical mumbo-jumbo, and the gate begins to open (directly into the main room of the Yawning Portal), and a strange, blue 'wave' passes through him and the entire World Serpent Inn, causing MUCH mayhem in the process, as magics go wild and some even explode. You see, the year is 1385 DR, and our friend Galipagrinor just had the worst luck imaginable. Not only is the gate now 'stuck' (permanent), but his spirit is bound to it (his body was turned to ash instantly when the Cerulean wave passed through him while he was casting dimensional magics).
The WSI has been repaired, and the new gate is now behind a locked door, and on the YP end it is behind a tapestry hanging on one wall of the main dining room. Only very power people and Harper-friends are allowed to use it... and the occasional other-worldy visitor who has busness in Waterdeep he/she needs to tend to badly (someone like Mordenkainen).
The problem with this is there are very few products over the years that have actually carried on with this whole "other worlds" concept. How come we don't have more deities from other worlds, or mentions of the other settings/worlds in the various products? Do you know for certain that when the Realms was deemed a crossroads it was a crossroads with connections to the other settings? We know for certain that Earth is the other world that is mentioned a lot in various products. Wizards is basically trying to shoe horn these adventures into the Realms and make the claim that this is how it's been all along. Planescape is widely known as the crossroads of all worlds/settings.
There is nothing wrong with a book of classic adventures but please don't sit there and try to spin the tale about this kind of thing has been in the Realms all along and that it makes sense. If there was a lot more info in the products through the years to back this up then yeah I could see your point, but we have what 2 or 3 products that deal with another setting/world? What's the expression in the States? I don't drink the Cool-Aid? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2017 : 10:22:31
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| No one at all has made the argument that all these dungeons are in the Realms. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2017 : 15:56:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No one at all has made the argument that all these dungeons are in the Realms.
I know so not sure what you are talking about. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2017 : 16:40:08
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I'm talking about this comment:
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
There is nothing wrong with a book of classic adventures but please don't sit there and try to spin the tale about this kind of thing has been in the Realms all along and that it makes sense.
Perhaps I misunderstood you, but it seemed that the argument was being put forth that these dungeons were in the Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2017 : 05:49:47
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They don't have to be in the Realms. From my understanding, these are smaller adventures (modules) that can be conveniently placed anywhere. Anywhere in the Realms. Anywhere in the NOT-Realms.
And I prefer it that way.
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2017 : 07:09:58
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quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
They don't have to be in the Realms. From my understanding, these are smaller adventures (modules) that can be conveniently placed anywhere. Anywhere in the Realms. Anywhere in the NOT-Realms.
And I prefer it that way.
Then what they should have done was create a generic D&D book of adventures which contains explanations of why they would be found in other settings instead of trying to establish some kind of silly and over reaching lore that connects them with the Realms. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Tales from the Yawning Portal
