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 [3.5 ed.] Spell Weavers
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Qilintha
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  16:46:45  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
First of all thank you for this amazing board, I have been playing D&D for ten years, but I embraced the beauty of the Forgotten Realms Lore only recently. This board helped me lots since then thanks to the amazing community there is.

Anyway back to business... Spell Weavers, even though they are monsters that exist from the very beginning...they never got fully placed into the Realms Lore (as far as I know).

According to their ecology in the Dragon's Magazine #338 their history is really interesting, and it leaves plenty of adventure hooks. ( the mysterious gems, the artifacts they made and shared around just to see the other races destroy each other...their sudden distraction). What do you think?

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  03:23:59  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This article has stuff I made up about spell weavers in the Realms with help from Eric Boyd:

http://realmssecretariat.com/jergal/

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1377 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  03:52:03  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha

Spell Weavers, even though they are monsters that exist from the very beginning...they never got fully placed into the Realms Lore (as far as I know).

Wasn't there something back in AD&D2 days about beholders of Realmspace having a feud with spellweavers, and that there's a colony of them near Lake of Steam that one hive tried to exterminate and failed?

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Qilintha
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  10:34:11  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow! Thank you George Krashos, that sort of history was exactly what I had in mind for the spell weavers! I know it's not canon but it's still extremely interesting and useful!

@TBeholder... Oh? I Might miss that AD&D manual with that information.

On my end, I was thinking about the Ongild of Halruaa...in the History of the Realms it's been described as an artifact gem, that could store spells. I thought that it might be related to a spell weaver chromatic disk, as it's one of the few gem-like items that has that same ability. I still am unsure about details and how to build an hook....but that idea came up to my mind.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5236 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  15:06:49  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just as a homebrew thing, north of the "city of gold" in Maztica/Anchorome products, it mentions a land of insect men, and it specifically mentions thri-kreen. However, I think it'd be a great place to throw spellweavers in addition.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  15:29:34  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ive got a lot of plans involving georges lore on the spell weavers.

I made the sstar gems and the special gems of netheril that store spells and release then by crushing (the name eludes me but the were spread in caches throughout the north such as old owl well) one and the same. They were also the remnants of the spellweavers and a major part of jergals ritual to restore that race.

I had other dissident groups of spellweavers survive after a fashion by hiding in pocket dimensions. The thrikreen of the moonsea are magically fused human spellweaver hybrids created by the spellweaver attempts to return to the material plane. These attempts of course failed in the end.

Thats just how im working it though for my netheril rewrite.

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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1377 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2016 :  03:48:21  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I had other dissident groups of spellweavers survive after a fashion by hiding in pocket dimensions. The thrikreen of the moonsea are magically fused human spellweaver hybrids created by the spellweaver attempts to return to the material plane. These attempts of course failed in the end.

This makes little sense and much redundancy.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2016 :  06:49:48  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What you call redundancy i call variety.

Where you see senselessness i see lore links (spurious maybe but no more spurious than a portal to the shaar or athas).


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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2016 :  17:38:15  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Just as a homebrew thing, north of the "city of gold" in Maztica/Anchorome products, it mentions a land of insect men, and it specifically mentions thri-kreen. However, I think it'd be a great place to throw spellweavers in addition.
Because of where that is in relation to an Earth map, and what the faces of Spellweavers look like (and that weird picture of Jergal), I pictured 'grey aliens' (you know, because that region is near where 'Area 51' would be on an Earth map LOL).

And then I thought, how about the Doctor Who version? How about The Silence? I don't know if you know DW, but The Silence could be a hybrid human/Spellweaver, created for much the same reasons the Yuan-ti have crossbreeds.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2874 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2016 :  21:41:52  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

This article has stuff I made up about spell weavers in the Realms with help from Eric Boyd:

http://realmssecretariat.com/jergal/

-- George Krashos





"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5236 Posts

Posted - 15 Dec 2016 :  23:12:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Just as a homebrew thing, north of the "city of gold" in Maztica/Anchorome products, it mentions a land of insect men, and it specifically mentions thri-kreen. However, I think it'd be a great place to throw spellweavers in addition.
Because of where that is in relation to an Earth map, and what the faces of Spellweavers look like (and that weird picture of Jergal), I pictured 'grey aliens' (you know, because that region is near where 'Area 51' would be on an Earth map LOL).

And then I thought, how about the Doctor Who version? How about The Silence? I don't know if you know DW, but The Silence could be a hybrid human/Spellweaver, created for much the same reasons the Yuan-ti have crossbreeds.



You confused me for a second, but then I went and relooked at the spellweaver in 3.5 (I was used to the 2nd edition look which "Only vaguely humanoid in appearance, they have a combination of mammalian, reptilian, and insectoid features."). It definitely looks more humanoid in 3.5 . Playing on the idea of aliens... it could be interesting if the area was a spelljammer stop that traded with illithids and neogi for captured native humans... picturing some poor Azuposi who has been anally probed, and no one else believes him.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 17 Dec 2016 :  20:47:37  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the picture of Jergal I was talking about comes from P&P (2e), pg.19. I think that one pic is where all the lore regarding him being a Spellweaver stems from. Thus, although he most certainly looks like a 'Grey Alien' in that pic, he must have also looked a lot like a 2e Spellweaver, for so much fanlore (and now quasi-canon) to have built up around it.

I like the idea that they've been manipulating other (lesser) races since the dawn of time. They may even be one of the very first, non-Creatori (Creator Race) that was multi-spheric. If we add-in a little of The Silence flavor I suggested, it could be that they've found a way to circumvent the 'Spheric Rules' (of interloping/interference) by using native populations to duplicate parts of their own 'tech'. It could be that nearly all SJ helm technology stems from their original, with racial variations caused by that scenario.

Like locusts... they spread throughout the multiverse using up other's resources and then move on to the next world.

As for connecting them to the Thri-Kreen (mentioned earlier), I would prefer THEY be an offshoot of that race, rather than the other way around. As a former fan of the original Land of the Lost, I like how they did Enik the Altrusian (which also easily translates in the DW lore about the Solarians) - he was a 'throw back' to an earlier period when his race was very advanced. All the other Sleestak (reptilians) were very primitive. So it could be like that - the Kreen may have rose to prominance as the first multispheric (SJ) empire, and then 'the gods' (or whatever) put a stop to that 'meddling' with ther worlds, and most of them 'got nuked' back to the stoneage (I'm picturing some sort of super-virus back on their homeworld). Thus, the few survivors of the original Kreen would be today's Spellweaver, greatly changed from their original forms. They probably look upon the other thri-Kreen races in the same manner we would view neanderthals.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5236 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2016 :  00:55:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Well, the picture of Jergal I was talking about comes from P&P (2e), pg.19. I think that one pic is where all the lore regarding him being a Spellweaver stems from. Thus, although he most certainly looks like a 'Grey Alien' in that pic, he must have also looked a lot like a 2e Spellweaver, for so much fanlore (and now quasi-canon) to have built up around it.

I like the idea that they've been manipulating other (lesser) races since the dawn of time. They may even be one of the very first, non-Creatori (Creator Race) that was multi-spheric. If we add-in a little of The Silence flavor I suggested, it could be that they've found a way to circumvent the 'Spheric Rules' (of interloping/interference) by using native populations to duplicate parts of their own 'tech'. It could be that nearly all SJ helm technology stems from their original, with racial variations caused by that scenario.

Like locusts... they spread throughout the multiverse using up other's resources and then move on to the next world.

As for connecting them to the Thri-Kreen (mentioned earlier), I would prefer THEY be an offshoot of that race, rather than the other way around. As a former fan of the original Land of the Lost, I like how they did Enik the Altrusian (which also easily translates in the DW lore about the Solarians) - he was a 'throw back' to an earlier period when his race was very advanced. All the other Sleestak (reptilians) were very primitive. So it could be like that - the Kreen may have rose to prominance as the first multispheric (SJ) empire, and then 'the gods' (or whatever) put a stop to that 'meddling' with ther worlds, and most of them 'got nuked' back to the stoneage (I'm picturing some sort of super-virus back on their homeworld). Thus, the few survivors of the original Kreen would be today's Spellweaver, greatly changed from their original forms. They probably look upon the other thri-Kreen races in the same manner we would view neanderthals.



Just a note, on the above idea of a spelljammer nexus in the area where the "insect men" are, the anadjiin of the planet Anadia would fit the area as well and maybe they come to Anchorome/Maztica for the hunting (like the predator which probably inspired their creation in the first place). Ankhegs might make good pets/mounts in the area as well.

One the spellweavers with more fleshlike looks, perhaps there were some experiments in changing their physiology, because the 3.5 version with a bird like beak and fleshy arms isn't like the 2e version. The question is what the hell did they breed with?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 19 Dec 2016 :  02:10:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If we take a more technological approach with them, instead of 'magical crossbreeding', maybe they were able to manipulate their DNA, by combining it with others? Not sure where they got that beak DNA - could of been anywhere... Aaarakocra? (or ancient Aearee?) Maybe even a grell?

But I see them as one thing - something that evolved naturally (we don't have a lot of those), that is a cross between a reptile and an insect (something we haven't seen on Earth) - that eventually became something else, through necessity. If we go with what I said above - that they need to move-about 'incognito' for whatever reason, than to avoid (divine?) detection they had to mask their DNA, and also mask their tech (which is what The Silence does in Doctor Who - they lead the locals into developing the tech they want, so its considered 'native', so they don't have to use their own and give themselves away). I guess 'the gods' have something resembling a sonic screwdriver for detecting such anomalies (I'm sure Gond does )

Think of it like this - all sorts of settings (including D&D/FR) have powerful 'Mages' (or technomancers, like Reed Richards) that have all sorts of 'sensor equipment' (both mystical and technological) specifically designed to detect extra-planetary threats, be they interstellar, interdimensional, and even trans-temporal. On Toril, the Chosen are tied to the Weave, which canonically is set-up to detect such things (just one of its many functions).

So when you have folks like The Chosen (and Doctor Who, and Doctor Fate, and Doctor Strange... what is this? a Medical convention?) all ready to confront you, you would need to mask your presence by blending your race and tech with others.

I bit complicated, and a bit too scify for my (fantasy) tastes, but it could explain their evolving nature and appearance.

Agent Kay: "Zed, we have a Spellweaver."

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5236 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2016 :  00:19:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

If we take a more technological approach with them, instead of 'magical crossbreeding', maybe they were able to manipulate their DNA, by combining it with others? Not sure where they got that beak DNA - could of been anywhere... Aaarakocra? (or ancient Aearee?) Maybe even a grell?

But I see them as one thing - something that evolved naturally (we don't have a lot of those), that is a cross between a reptile and an insect (something we haven't seen on Earth) - that eventually became something else, through necessity. If we go with what I said above - that they need to move-about 'incognito' for whatever reason, than to avoid (divine?) detection they had to mask their DNA, and also mask their tech (which is what The Silence does in Doctor Who - they lead the locals into developing the tech they want, so its considered 'native', so they don't have to use their own and give themselves away). I guess 'the gods' have something resembling a sonic screwdriver for detecting such anomalies (I'm sure Gond does )

Think of it like this - all sorts of settings (including D&D/FR) have powerful 'Mages' (or technomancers, like Reed Richards) that have all sorts of 'sensor equipment' (both mystical and technological) specifically designed to detect extra-planetary threats, be they interstellar, interdimensional, and even trans-temporal. On Toril, the Chosen are tied to the Weave, which canonically is set-up to detect such things (just one of its many functions).

So when you have folks like The Chosen (and Doctor Who, and Doctor Fate, and Doctor Strange... what is this? a Medical convention?) all ready to confront you, you would need to mask your presence by blending your race and tech with others.

I bit complicated, and a bit too scify for my (fantasy) tastes, but it could explain their evolving nature and appearance.

Agent Kay: "Zed, we have a Spellweaver."



Ok, now I have a picture of a 2e spellweaver raping a grell in my head..... Its kind of disgusting

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 20 Dec 2016 :  05:29:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Reptile-insect aliens + floating brain squid-thingies = Ultimate gross-out Hentai.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Qilintha
Acolyte

8 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2016 :  14:19:56  Show Profile Send Qilintha a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank everyone for your help, even though the image of a spellweaver- mind flayers intercourse is...something I'll never unsee now. George Krashos, the link you gave me sadly doesn't work anymore...can you share it again?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4768 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2016 :  15:28:54  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Qilintha

Thank everyone for your help, even though the image of a spellweaver- mind flayers intercourse is...something I'll never unsee now. George Krashos, the link you gave me sadly doesn't work anymore...can you share it again?



PM me your e-mail address and I'll send you a copy of the Jergal piece.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5236 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2016 :  17:47:20  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, are grell a delicacy for mindflayers?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
13386 Posts

Posted - 26 Dec 2016 :  19:50:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Probably.

I was looking at some art I have on my computer the other day (looking to delete stuff to make room), and I noticed a pic of Slender man...

He has no face, and he has tentacles instead of the extra arms, but he has six limbs, and an elongated, inhuman face... hmmmm... maybe slenderman is either a Spellweaver using some sort of obfuscation magic to partially mask its true appearance, or its another hybrid of a Spellweaver and something else (human + something with tentacles? Maybe not human... I recall a D&D race with no faces...)

Either way - Slenderman is known for stealing children; maybe for 'experiments'?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Dec 2016 20:15:37
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