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Bravesteel
Seeker

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  23:44:26  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What if the CKC was revived for the DM'S Guild and then, separately, there was a series for going into detail about regions, something along the lines of Candlekeep Compendium Presents: Cormyr. I don't feel like burying an extensive region-by-region project in the CKC is a good idea.

I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore


Edited by - Bravesteel on 11 Dec 2016 23:46:28
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  23:45:53  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You'd still have to find and get permission from all the attributing authors of those articles.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
Artstation Portfolio
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Bravesteel
Seeker

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 11 Dec 2016 :  23:48:42  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

You'd still have to find and get permission from all the attributing authors of those articles.



Only if we wanted to put the old CKC up. I think it would be smart to simply revamp it from the ground floor and any authors that want to refresh their old CKC articles for the new version could do so.

I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore

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EltonRobb
Seeker

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  00:37:26  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel

quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

You'd still have to find and get permission from all the attributing authors of those articles.



Only if we wanted to put the old CKC up. I think it would be smart to simply revamp it from the ground floor and any authors that want to refresh their old CKC articles for the new version could do so.


This could work.
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Alisttair
Great Reader

Canada
3054 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  03:06:26  Show Profile  Visit Alisttair's Homepage Send Alisttair a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm always up for more and more FR Lore. I've been very pleased with WotC using FR as the core setting making sure to have loto of familiart things which leads in to the upcoming movie better (like with characters for Marvel movies)

Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)

Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  03:11:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I really like this - get the CKC running again. Maybe produce a 'best of' volume first, to test the waters, which would really be us just taking whatever articles we can find the authors for and maybe slapping a fresh coat of paint on them.

Maybe have 2-3 returning 'columns', that we could start in this one - "Current Clack", "Eyes on..." , etc, that would be brand new.

quote:
Originally posted by Bravesteel

What if the CKC was revived for the DM'S Guild and then, separately, there was a series for going into detail about regions, something along the lines of Candlekeep Compendium Presents: Cormyr. I don't feel like burying an extensive region-by-region project in the CKC is a good idea.
As I said above, I would prefer the gazeteer-style treatment of The Realms (in lieu of an actual FRCG) to be done by WotC themselves, or at least, more fully backed by them than the DM's Guild, and that could possibly be achieved through TEGG, if they were willing. Their resources may already be stretched a bit thin, though. I don't want such a thing being done here, as 'fan work', because the whole point would be lost (an OFFICIAL update/CG of FR for 5e).

And, of course, we could feature short stories (in a CKC) as well, by some of our known authors, but that would have to be a separate 'deal', because they may not want to provide material that would only benefit the operation of Candlekeep. So long as each volume has its share of 'crunchy bits', it might be a way of slipping that stuff into the DM's Guild.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 12 Dec 2016 03:15:59
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Bravesteel
Seeker

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 12 Dec 2016 :  04:04:33  Show Profile Send Bravesteel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MarkustayAs I said above, I would prefer the gazeteer-style treatment of The Realms (in lieu of an actual FRCG) to be done by WotC themselves, or at least, more fully backed by them than the DM's Guild, and that could possibly be achieved through TEGG, if they were willing. Their resources may already be stretched a bit thin, though. I don't want such a thing being done here, as 'fan work', because the whole point would be lost (an OFFICIAL update/CG of FR for 5e).



I suppose I understand where you are coming from, unfortunately the only "Official" update would have to come from WotC which puts us all right back to where we were when this thread went slightly off-topic. I feel like an "official" update would pale in comparison to a well organized fan-update to the Realms. Just my opinion.

Edit: I, of course, understand that TEGG doing something would be as close to official as possible, but why leave it there? Since the original grey box first came out the Realms has belonged to all of us (in spirit if not IP rights).

I loved to read and to write, but then something happened. As I made my way through school, I kept getting handed books to read that didn't excite me and didn't even remotely connect to the realities of my life.- R. A. Salvatore


Edited by - Bravesteel on 12 Dec 2016 04:07:27
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
762 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2016 :  09:02:27  Show Profile Send Kiaransalyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted No. I'm happy with the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide and don't see a need for a Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide. Of course, guides for other regions would be welcome.

Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness


Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3999 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2016 :  15:29:59  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I voted yes but I'm well aware of the fact that getting one for the whole setting just isn't profitable for them right now. WotC's release schedule is very specific and tailored to their Adventure Paths. Storm King's Thunder, Prince of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, etc. ALL are adventures for players that are set in the Realms that all have regional information and that's intentional because they WANT you to use their books, their rules, their stuff and not just take a regional thing (devoid of edition-based rules) and switch to Pathfinder or RIFTS or even an earlier version like 4e, 3e, or a TSR version.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9633 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2016 :  16:16:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I voted yes but I'm well aware of the fact that getting one for the whole setting just isn't profitable for them right now. WotC's release schedule is very specific and tailored to their Adventure Paths. Storm King's Thunder, Prince of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, etc. ALL are adventures for players that are set in the Realms that all have regional information and that's intentional because they WANT you to use their books, their rules, their stuff and not just take a regional thing (devoid of edition-based rules) and switch to Pathfinder or RIFTS or even an earlier version like 4e, 3e, or a TSR version.



That goodsir, is a very telling point. I even moreso understand why they're doing this as adventures that contain regional info, and I think that's their method moving forward, until they've done enough regions to consolidate data into a campaign guide later.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3999 Posts

Posted - 22 Dec 2016 :  19:13:44  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I voted yes but I'm well aware of the fact that getting one for the whole setting just isn't profitable for them right now. WotC's release schedule is very specific and tailored to their Adventure Paths. Storm King's Thunder, Prince of the Apocalypse, Out of the Abyss, etc. ALL are adventures for players that are set in the Realms that all have regional information and that's intentional because they WANT you to use their books, their rules, their stuff and not just take a regional thing (devoid of edition-based rules) and switch to Pathfinder or RIFTS or even an earlier version like 4e, 3e, or a TSR version.



That goodsir, is a very telling point. I even moreso understand why they're doing this as adventures that contain regional info, and I think that's their method moving forward, until they've done enough regions to consolidate data into a campaign guide later.



Well that would be a cool idea waay further down the road. Personally I think they're investing TOO much on one area (Sword Coast/Western Heartlands). I'd love to see some adventures in the Utter East, The Moonsea, the Sea of Fallen Stars (think sailor adventure path fighting sea monsters and the Abolethic Sovereignty), the Moonshae Isles, or even the Dalelands/Myth Drannor. None of these places have really been touched outside of a novel or 3.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

469 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2020 :  22:01:23  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Voted no. Every change in 5e has been to make the setting less dynamic and to remove parts I enjoy in favor of returning parts I disliked. No thanjs.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3999 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2020 :  22:27:13  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

Voted no. Every change in 5e has been to make the setting less dynamic and to remove parts I enjoy in favor of returning parts I disliked. No thanjs.



I get where you're coming from keftiu. Looking at the changes they made...again....to the Realms, and as a 4E Realms-fan, it's really difficult to see the parts you've come to enjoy with the post-Spellplague Realms get ripped away really stinks.

However since the change of the Realms from 3e to 4e I've adopted an approach to the setting that has been really freeing. Basically I treat the Realms-lore as information to use, or disregard, at my leisure. For example I read a bunch of the Adventure League adventures set in Hulburg, a town I had come to really love since the Blades of the Moonsea novels. But reading the adventures....nothing was kept in them about the actual novel that affects the setting. All the major players and characters are gone or not talked about at all. Very disappointing. Still, I'll change what I need to make it work.

The thing is, we have the blocks to build from and take from that to go forward.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 05 Jan 2020 05:58:04
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3302 Posts

Posted - 04 Jan 2020 :  23:24:15  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

Voted no. Every change in 5e has been to make the setting less dynamic and to remove parts I enjoy in favor of returning parts I disliked. No thanjs.



The changes are already done, whether they write a 5e setting or not. If anything, a 5e campaign book could add something you may like to the setting

As an example, and I say it as someone who approached FR towards the end of 4e, so this is not my personal experience (even though I didn't like many things that 4e did, mostly its subtractive design), this is how older fans felt with the arrival of 4e, but I've read some people saying that they warmed up to at least *certain* aspects of 4e with the addition of new material.

And this is without taking in account the fact that 4e went out of its way to destroy beloved characters or elements, sometimes in spiteful ways--basically, it came to exist at the cost of much of what a lot of what FR-lovers, well, loved. 5e at least tried to keep some of what 4e added around (for example, the Dragonborn still have some land. And nothing says that portals to abeir no longer exist and that you can't go there), so--unlike in 4e--there could be a chance for some lore to come up regarding those areas (heck, even in 4e some designers managed to sneak in lore about certain areas in the older eras).

I also disagree that *every* change in 5e has made the setting less dynamic. Some actually added back variety, new players and plot hooks (like the return of many gods and their faith--which 4e had taken away for really hollow reasons--or of cool nations like Halruaa), even though WotC did nothing to explore those events and their consequences (but keep in mind that this last point has little to do with the changes themselves, and everything to do with the implementation, which was a problem for 4e too).

Finally, there's always what Diffan says.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 04 Jan 2020 23:31:41
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TBeholder
Great Reader

2025 Posts

Posted - 05 Jan 2020 :  09:59:56  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

they are also exactly the things WoTC have been trying to avoid since 3e.
they want to be able to put whatever they want whenever and wherever they want without a fan telling them they got it wrong and forcing some errata or other update.
the less detail about the sundering the more they can blame on that. the less timeline info the more they can shoehorn in with later adventures. details will only constrain them and they dont have or want the resources to do lore checking.

Indeed, 3e era seems like a slide into incoherent mumbling. "Something something, or maybe something else, or maybe let DM decide what to shoehorn where, we can't be bothered". So, won't care about continuity, won't care about quality. A disadvantage of having it run by a big company with corporate bureaucracy, internal politics and little interest in any particular acquisition (unless it's someone's pet project) beyond milking it.

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Also, in some media, they should advertise it as 'The world of Drizzt'.

Since that's how it will inevitably end up, this would be too much truth in advertising.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3999 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2020 :  15:16:55  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder

Indeed, 3e era seems like a slide into incoherent mumbling. "Something something, or maybe something else, or maybe let DM decide what to shoehorn where, we can't be bothered". So, won't care about continuity, won't care about quality. A disadvantage of having it run by a big company with corporate bureaucracy, internal politics and little interest in any particular acquisition (unless it's someone's pet project) beyond milking it.


That's a far bit disingenuous don't you think? You make it sound like every person on the Forgotten Realms team, including people like Ed Greenwood, Sean K. Reynolds, and Richard Baker didn't give a flip about anything regarding the material post 1999 and I find that exceedingly hard to believe.

Maybe....just maybe you simply didn't like it but the quality was just as good? Nah, people don't like things so they equate that with either poor writing (yet decidedly ignore or don't mention the poor writing of the stuff they do like) OR blaming big CORP (because, hey Evil Empire amiright?).

I mean, lets look at Iyachtu Xvim - or otherwise known as the "deity" they named by grabbing a fistful of darts and throwing them at an alphabet wall - and what a dumb concept the entire deity was? Or about the ridiculous conquistador-Helmite excursions into the "West" or what is basically 'Hey I can play a Realms game as Cortez!!'

Face the fact that the Realms continues to be, as it's ALWAYS been, a kitchen-sink setting. With knights, samurai, wizards, space-crafts, cthulhu, vikings, and Baskin Robin flavor of Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, and other non-humans; with a variety of magics from Weave to Shadow-Weave to Gem magic to psionics and "mind" magic, to "Land"-Magic. Governments from Mageocracy to Feudalism to Free-City states to Undead-run States, etc. There is literally nothing outside the possibility of happening in the Realms, from the 40+ years of novels, games, and supplements.

It's ok to not like certain parts of the setting (I'll certainly never play in a Kara-Tur or Al-Qadim setting) but that doesn't make it inherently bad or poor writing. It just means that it's not to my tastes.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."

Edited by - Diffan on 06 Jan 2020 15:17:26
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5984 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2020 :  23:25:39  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Indeed, 3e era seems like a slide into incoherent mumbling. "Something something, or maybe something else, or maybe let DM decide what to shoehorn where, we can't be bothered". So, won't care about continuity, won't care about quality. A disadvantage of having it run by a big company with corporate bureaucracy, internal politics and little interest in any particular acquisition (unless it's someone's pet project) beyond milking it.



IMO, the 2E era had far more egregious Realmslore gaffes and issues than 3E, other than work done by Ed and Steven Schend. In addition, the "shoehorn Earth-analogues into the Realms"-trope reached its zenith in 2E.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 07 Jan 2020 00:48:35
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader

USA
4004 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2020 :  01:19:41  Show Profile Send Dalor Darden a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I’ve decided a 5e book is nothing more I really want; though I could mine it for possible information “from” around 1357 DR.

My own current Realms is OGB with essentially Stygia where Mulhorand is and Shem where Unther is. My “Grey Realms” has Greyhawk where Kara Tur is and the Hordelands blend into the Paynim lands in between Greyhawk and Faerun.

I for sure left the corporate Forgotten Realms long ago.

The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me!

Edited by - Dalor Darden on 07 Jan 2020 01:26:28
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
9633 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2020 :  01:21:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

Voted no. Every change in 5e has been to make the setting less dynamic and to remove parts I enjoy in favor of returning parts I disliked. No thanjs.



The changes are already done, whether they write a 5e setting or not. If anything, a 5e campaign book could add something you may like to the setting

As an example, and I say it as someone who approached FR towards the end of 4e, so this is not my personal experience (even though I didn't like many things that 4e did, mostly its subtractive design), this is how older fans felt with the arrival of 4e, but I've read some people saying that they warmed up to at least *certain* aspects of 4e with the addition of new material.

And this is without taking in account the fact that 4e went out of its way to destroy beloved characters or elements, sometimes in spiteful ways--basically, it came to exist at the cost of much of what a lot of what FR-lovers, well, loved. 5e at least tried to keep some of what 4e added around (for example, the Dragonborn still have some land. And nothing says that portals to abeir no longer exist and that you can't go there), so--unlike in 4e--there could be a chance for some lore to come up regarding those areas (heck, even in 4e some designers managed to sneak in lore about certain areas in the older eras).

I also disagree that *every* change in 5e has made the setting less dynamic. Some actually added back variety, new players and plot hooks (like the return of many gods and their faith--which 4e had taken away for really hollow reasons--or of cool nations like Halruaa), even though WotC did nothing to explore those events and their consequences (but keep in mind that this last point has little to do with the changes themselves, and everything to do with the implementation, which was a problem for 4e too).

Finally, there's always what Diffan says.



There's much that I agree with here. The spiteful removals, but also warming up to some of the 4e ideas (I liked Tymanther… I liked the warlock knights... I liked genasi city... I like the idea of the undead society but not so much the realm. I'm less fond of Returned Abeir, but that's probably more due to less familiarity to it). I'm also happy to see places return.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Stonwulfe
Learned Scribe

Canada
81 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2020 :  20:39:49  Show Profile  Visit Stonwulfe's Homepage Send Stonwulfe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A country-by-country Atlas of the Forgotten Realms with high-detail artwork and Encyclopedia/CIA World Factbook-like entries on the economy and trade of each region/country would be something I'd gladly pay $250 CAD for (provided it was hardcover open-bind with good quality paper and a fabric binding. No true-binding. The glue just breaks and then you lose sections, pages, etc.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5984 Posts

Posted - 08 Jan 2020 :  22:42:31  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe

A country-by-country Atlas of the Forgotten Realms with high-detail artwork and Encyclopedia/CIA World Factbook-like entries on the economy and trade of each region/country would be something I'd gladly pay $250 CAD for (provided it was hardcover open-bind with good quality paper and a fabric binding. No true-binding. The glue just breaks and then you lose sections, pages, etc.



You are in the minority unfortunately, IMO. I think that there would be a small number of FR fans, the diehards if you will, who would buy such a product at that price point.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
33987 Posts

Posted - 09 Jan 2020 :  01:03:04  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe

A country-by-country Atlas of the Forgotten Realms with high-detail artwork and Encyclopedia/CIA World Factbook-like entries on the economy and trade of each region/country would be something I'd gladly pay $250 CAD for (provided it was hardcover open-bind with good quality paper and a fabric binding. No true-binding. The glue just breaks and then you lose sections, pages, etc.



You are in the minority unfortunately, IMO. I think that there would be a small number of FR fans, the diehards if you will, who would buy such a product at that price point.

-- George Krashos



I'd want to, but it would require saving up for -- that's nearly $200, US. I don't often get to drop that much on frivolous stuff.

(I have dropped that much and more on frivolous stuff, just not often!)

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keftiu
Senior Scribe

469 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2020 :  00:55:32  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Stonwulfe

A country-by-country Atlas of the Forgotten Realms with high-detail artwork and Encyclopedia/CIA World Factbook-like entries on the economy and trade of each region/country would be something I'd gladly pay $250 CAD for (provided it was hardcover open-bind with good quality paper and a fabric binding. No true-binding. The glue just breaks and then you lose sections, pages, etc.



Do you know how much that would cost, and how many copies would need to sell just to break even?

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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cpthero2
Master of Realmslore

USA
1498 Posts

Posted - 05 Mar 2020 :  08:13:36  Show Profile  Visit cpthero2's Homepage Send cpthero2 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Master Gyor,

I voted no.

I think WotC has done enough of them for now. Mixing in more confusion just doesn't seem appealing.

Best regards,



Robert McDonell
Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring
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RRELIN
Acolyte

12 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2020 :  02:29:12  Show Profile  Visit RRELIN's Homepage Send RRELIN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with the No votes. Too much can be a bad thing...
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