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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 00:05:28
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This is a thread to gather what little we know about the old empires 5e, from the SCAG, Ashes of the Tyrant, and The Devil You Know, and elsewhere.
Basic state of Affairs:
Mulhorand is back as the Incarnations of the Mulhorandi Gods drove the Imaskari into exile.
High Imaskar is scattered to the Plains of Purple Dust and Extraplanar Holds. Deep Imaskar is fine.
Unther has been returned, at least in part and Uthlass is being rebuilt.Gilgeam rules, but he's different from how he used to be and growing in power. Gilgeam made a deal with Grazzt for demons and other servants like Jackleweres.
Tymanther has been reduced by the Sundering and Gilgeam, its size has basically reduced to the land around its two cities. What remains was protected by Enlil. An Immortal, but no longer deity Nanna Sin guards the city as a superpowerful Dragon Turtle, guarding Tymanther.
Okoth has not been mentioned, but it could have been destroyed,conqueored, or ignored by Mulhorand. Unknown fate.
Murghom is still ruled by Dragons according the Sorceror Section of the SCAG or at least that how I read it.
Thay now allows the living to be promoted.
Chessenta is still basically Chessenta, but in a new incarnation Tzazzar has returned to rule Erebos and the Primordial Enthropy is contained again and being worshipped. Air Spur the Capital of Akanul is fine, why its concidered apart of Chessenta doesn't bode well for the rest of Akanuls cities.
Am I forgotting anything important?
Is Mask still concidered a member of the Mulhorand Pantheon as such is he Incarnated somehow?
I assumed that because she wasn't mentioned in the Faerun Pantheon in the SCAG I assumed Sharess has incarnated amoung the Mulhorand deities.
Enlil, Gilgeam, and sort of Nanna Sin, and maybe Ishtar (who was an aspect of Isis at one point) are back, but what about Inanna, Kirru, ect...?
Didn't the 4e Backdrop to Chessenta suggest that Faerun gods had assumed the powers,identities and customs of some of those deities?
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 02:55:01
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I forgot Threskel, last it was mentioned in 4e it was a vessel state of Chessenta.
I assume Unther founded Threskel like it did Chessenta, but I don't actually know. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 03:00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
I forgot Threskel, last it was mentioned in 4e it was a vessel state of Chessenta.
I assume Unther founded Threskel like it did Chessenta, but I don't actually know.
Threskel was one of those weird 'regions in pink' in 3e, and mostly ignored. The original 3rd edition artist chose light red to denote 'non-nation autonomous regions', something we really don't have real-world. Altumbel was another (there were several, but 3e also lost a couple). I think they were meant for 'DM development' or some-such.
Edit: Just checked - actually, Altumbel is in that brownish-gold color, so its considered an actual 'state'. The Priador, Dragon Coast - even the Dalelands - all got that 'pink' treatment. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 03:11:03
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I did some research and discovered that in 4e the Mulhorandi Gods were kind of still worshipped in Chessenta in some form, some under the watch of Faerunian Gods like Anhur worship in the Church of Tempus for example.
And oddly Sharess as Bast Exarch of Sune became really popular in Chessenta in 4e, which previously had not really been a place she'd been worshipped.
I guess maybe refugees from Mulhorand would have been responsible.
Sebek may have become an Werecrocodile Archfey in 4e. Prehaps much of the Pantheon and its Capital Skuld hid in the Feywild for a time? |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 03:36:44
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Looking for Threskels origins I stumbled onto the Blade Kingdoms, so I checked that out having never heard of it, it was a group of city states based on North Italy during the Renassiance, but it had lazer beams. WTF?!?! Its sounds like it got stolen from Eberron, except it predate Eberron.
It was between Chondath and Chessenta, so I assume the Spellplague blew it up. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 03:46:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
It was between Chondath and Chessenta, so I assume the Spellplague blew it up.
We can only hope.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 05:06:20
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I always include them on my maps, but its easy enough to just say the folks from there have been eating too many strange mushrooms and spreading odd stories. 
Kinda like how they fixed the Whamite Islands - perhaps the same insanity/malady has afflicted the people in the Blade kingdoms as well (it IS nearby, after all).
Those druids (Ilighôn) better get on the ball! 
EDIT: What novel were they from again? 
EDIT2: Nevermind - found it. I hadn't realized there was a map in that. A new name for some hills, but the region is a LOT more hilly/mountainous then I thought previously. I'll have to make a note of that. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Dec 2016 05:18:31 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 08:42:02
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
It was between Chondath and Chessenta, so I assume the Spellplague blew it up.
We can only hope.
-- George Krashos
I assume you weren't a fan of them then. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 20:03:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
This is a thread to gather what little we know about the old empires 5e, from the SCAG, Ashes of the Tyrant, and The Devil You Know, and elsewhere.
Basic state of Affairs:
Mulhorand is back as the Incarnations of the Mulhorandi Gods drove the Imaskari into exile.
High Imaskar is scattered to the Plains of Purple Dust and Extraplanar Holds. Deep Imaskar is fine.
Unther has been returned, at least in part and Uthlass is being rebuilt.Gilgeam rules, but he's different from how he used to be and growing in power. Gilgeam made a deal with Grazzt for demons and other servants like Jackleweres.
Tymanther has been reduced by the Sundering and Gilgeam, its size has basically reduced to the land around its two cities. What remains was protected by Enlil. An Immortal, but no longer deity Nanna Sin guards the city as a superpowerful Dragon Turtle, guarding Tymanther.
Okoth has not been mentioned, but it could have been destroyed,conqueored, or ignored by Mulhorand. Unknown fate.
Murghom is still ruled by Dragons according the Sorceror Section of the SCAG or at least that how I read it.
Thay now allows the living to be promoted.
Chessenta is still basically Chessenta, but in a new incarnation Tzazzar has returned to rule Erebos and the Primordial Enthropy is contained again and being worshipped. Air Spur the Capital of Akanul is fine, why its concidered apart of Chessenta doesn't bode well for the rest of Akanuls cities.
Am I forgotting anything important?
Is Mask still concidered a member of the Mulhorand Pantheon as such is he Incarnated somehow?
I assumed that because she wasn't mentioned in the Faerun Pantheon in the SCAG I assumed Sharess has incarnated amoung the Mulhorand deities.
Enlil, Gilgeam, and sort of Nanna Sin, and maybe Ishtar (who was an aspect of Isis at one point) are back, but what about Inanna, Kirru, ect...?
Didn't the 4e Backdrop to Chessenta suggest that Faerun gods had assumed the powers,identities and customs of some of those deities?
Thank you for the note of Mask being part of the Mulhorandi Pantheon... I forgot that, and it helps me with something.
Other things to take into account
There was the section of Chessenta (basically southern Chessenta area that had little detail) that was called the Maw of Entropy and basically all of those lands were being disintegrated. What I'm presently doing with that is having it that when the sundering happened a portion of Abeir was brought over to fill this area in. Ironically, this area was filled with Mulans (including the red wizards from the Thayan enclaves) from Soorenar and Cimbar <my homebrew is that these areas were destroyed on Toril when portions of them transferred to Abeir.... but people didn't understand what happened due to the destruction of the cities themselves>. I'm calling this area the "Tharch of the Red Mineral Forest of Shyr", and its ground is red earth and its filled with a bunch of "trees" with crystalline leaves of varying colors and some earthmotes.
Although not technically the old empires, the underchasm filling in shouldn't be overlooked as well. In this I've also been of the belief that it didn't collapse as 4e lore states, but rather that a lot of the area that is the landrise transferred to Abeir, and that the empty area that is the underchasm was in Abeir previously. This allows for the return of another area that can also be populated, and I'm calling this area the "Tharch of Pelevari".
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 20:31:07
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| Your welcome, just curious but what did that help with, if its okay to ask? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 23:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Your welcome, just curious but what did that help with, if its okay to ask?
Sure, since it looks like it may take me a long damn time to get it all written up, might as well just share. Some of what I've been working with on the side has been revolving around the concept that some of the missing gods of this world during the 4e era were actually forced into Abeir. A large portion of that is that Velsharoon, Leira, and Savras were actually in Abeir. I also wanted to include Talos, the Maztican deities (including Ubtao), the Mulhorandi and Untheric deities, Lathander, Helm, Tyr, and Mask (and possibly Eilistraee).
So, this gives me another reason why Mask may have transferred.
One of the ideas I had was that through some means dweomerheart (Mystra II's home plane) was transferred to Abeir when Mystra was "attacked". I've got a couple theories for that, but the main one I've got right now is that Mystra #1 knew something about the future and had worked out with Ao to get herself sent to Abeir following the ToT, but it required her death. Mystra #1 knew of Shar's want to gain control over the entire weave, and this move was meant to actually remove her control of the shadow weave which was tied to Karsus.
Whenever Mystra's plane transferred, it pulled the home planes of some other pantheons with them (i.e. Mulhorandi, Maztican)... this still needs some work...
Anyway, I want to leave a lot of this vague and just put hints, but the general idea was that Leira was riding inside Cyric's head. She actually confused Cyric into thinking he accomplished his goals and then had him leave dweomerheart. Savras was also in dweomerheart. Velsharoon had a phylactery in Soorenar in his Tower Terrible, and a large portion of Soorenar transferred to Abeir (most people think the town simply drowned, but they can't actually tell since it was all under water). So, Mystra II is wounded, and these 3 gods of magic must form alliances with some other pantheons to try and get the worlds righted.
One of the big things I also start off with is the idea that the gods' portrayals in this world of Abeir are more like what we see in our own Norse/Greek/Egyptian type mythologies. For instance, Leira and Savras appear to the red wizards in the city of Soorenar and tell them that they must enter the Tower Terrible and recover the phylactery of Velsharoon so that he can act in the world to "use his powers to raise other gods". A few days later, many of the transferred spellcasters have a dream of performing a magical ritual to summon the moon... a dream that involves people from many cultures. They all wake up to an illusion of the moon in the sky.... an illusion which then begins to solidify as belief in the return of various moon gods in various pantheons causes it to return. A few days later, these same spellcasters have dreams of performing a ritual to summon a sun. A sun is seen to appear in the horizon the next morning... but depending on the viewer, this sun might be pulled by Lathander in a chariot... or pulled by Ra... or the sun might be Tezca... some (such as red wizards) may see the sun as Kossuth but pulled by both Lathander and Horus-Re. What is perhaps more interesting is that the inhabitants of Abeir don't see either this sun or this moon.... until some of them are exposed to divine magic such as healing from a sun priest, and their belief in this power suddenly "reveals" the sun to them.
I also add that these spellcasters who "helped" perform these rituals are "blessed" by the gods with extreme virility over the next few years, resulting in numerous children (and for red wizards who have basically harems this might be with multiple women).
Anyway, that's the general idea I've got going so far. I wanted to involve both Leira and Mask though, because I like having both of those deities together as co-conspirators to a degree.
Oh, and with dweomerheart in Abeir, its my belief that the wizards transferred there were not hampered like the ones left in Toril. As a result, the red wizards transferred to Abeir (long story) were able to make inroads in Maztica's outer edges (basically, I have them in the southern Lopango, Northern Katashaka, Balduran Bay, eastern portion of the Poscadar Basin (i.e. city of Gold area), and in the Shaar and southern Chessenta). Over the past hundred years, the red wizards numbers in these areas have gone from a 1-2 thousand to numbers probably in the 50-80 thousand... granted the vast majority of these at 5th level and under. They've also grown their number of servants (in the form of Azuposi, Metahel, Nahopaca, Kolan, and Maztican humans... and various humanoid races in the various areas in which they're found) as well and slowly built their towns from simple villages to smallish towns (most maybe no more than 20 thousand individuals... and none nearing anything like Bezantur or Waterdeep in size |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 : 01:10:50
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| Cool are you doing this for DMSGUILD? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 : 01:52:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Cool are you doing this for DMSGUILD?
Yeah. My last entry was pretty long too (like 150 pages). This may end up longer, and work is heating up AND I'm trying to keep it mostly canon so it involves more research. So, I've figured what the hell, I'll discuss some of it before I write it up. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2016 : 21:42:39
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I was wondering how exactly the Mulorandi took their land back after most had been wiped out in 4e, so I reviewed the 4e FRCG and what I found was some escaped in Chessenta and a few other lands, about 22,000 survived in the only surviving city, and part of Skuld had disappeared, possibly to Abier and those in Unther disappeared with those people.
So this is how I'd guess it went down. Some Mulhorandi didn't die, they were transfered to a nearby plan of a existance like the Feywild.
Others ended up in Abier. Others still gathered in Chessenta and Mulhogm and Semphar, others hid like bandits in caverns in High Imaskar, and others still lived under High Imaskari rule.
It was said that the think the Blue Dragon Shalnaedyr was using his premade tomb as a front for building an army, what if that army was a Mulhorandi army. Meanwhile in Chessenta Sharess was organizing a combo of displace Mulhorandi and Chessentan Mercanaries. And someone killed off the Mindflayers controlling Mulhorandi Bandits in high Imaskar, freeing them into joining the revolt.
Set comes back in Okoth and just takes back over, driving out Sarrukh Sseth loyalists.
And Skuld comes back, stronger then ever.
Nezram the World Walker organizes Imaskari and Mulhorandi dissidents in High Imaskar to overthrow the government.
Maybe the Mycoids that took over Rose Castle are under the control of Nazram.
So attacks and betrayals occur and all of a sudden High Imaskar finds itself over whelmed from multiple directions. Chaos insues and Skyclave its self ends up besieged.
Tymanther tries to help, but their is little point in asking for more help, High Imaskar is facing attacks from multiple armies, Gods, and possibly some dragons, and one of the most powerful archwizards in the realms.
So the survivors start fleeing from their remaining strongholds like Skyclade, using feywild and Shadowfell crossing and teleporting the Purple Palace back to the Plains of Purple Dust.
This leaves Mulhorand in control of any surviving cities, ruins of their former cities, Skyclade, and vast terrorities that were stored to fetility and health by the Sundering. Maybe they even captured some Red Wings, the giant Dragonflies that Imaskar uses for transportation.
Still this new Mulhorand would not resemble the old Mulhorand much at all. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2016 : 17:23:11
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We desperately need a Players Guide to the Old Empires.
I am really warming up to this new political climate Nezram is creating in the Southern Realms. Do you know what the Chessentan based Zhents are doing there?
How are the Emerald Enclave faring? Probably freaking out about the colossal task of mitigating the effects of the Plaguechanged lands, the return of lands from Abeir, the collapse of the underchasm and the seemingly eternal rainfall and subsequent rise of the Sea of the Fallen Stars. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2016 : 21:21:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
We desperately need a Players Guide to the Old Empires.
I am really warming up to this new political climate Nezram is creating in the Southern Realms. Do you know what the Chessentan based Zhents are doing there?
How are the Emerald Enclave faring? Probably freaking out about the colossal task of mitigating the effects of the Plaguechanged lands, the return of lands from Abeir, the collapse of the underchasm and the seemingly eternal rainfall and subsequent rise of the Sea of the Fallen Stars.
The Emerald Enclave apparently gave up on the area and is totally involved in the North...... at least that's the viewpoint you get from some of these modules they've put out. I think they need to be brought back local again. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2016 : 21:27:27
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| I think WotC is only going to produce stuff for the North/Sword Coast for awhile. The WotC designer's might get overwhelmed trying to keep up with multiple areas of the Realms. When Wizbro gets overwhelmed the Realms suffer. Your best bet is to up date it yourself, and don't rely on WotC at all. It's freeing to not need Wizbro to hold you by the hand in YOUR Realms. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2016 : 21:55:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
We desperately need a Players Guide to the Old Empires.
I am really warming up to this new political climate Nezram is creating in the Southern Realms. Do you know what the Chessentan based Zhents are doing there?
How are the Emerald Enclave faring? Probably freaking out about the colossal task of mitigating the effects of the Plaguechanged lands, the return of lands from Abeir, the collapse of the underchasm and the seemingly eternal rainfall and subsequent rise of the Sea of the Fallen Stars.
Most if not all plague changed lands have reverted basic to normal, just as all but a handful of spellscars reverted to normal flesh, so that's not an issue anymore.
I absolutely agree we need a Player's Guide to the Old Empires, it'd be awesome |
Edited by - Gyor on 21 Dec 2016 15:58:29 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 17:56:14
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| I still think spellscars could have been a great Realms version of Eber-whatsit's dragonmarks. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2016 : 20:19:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I still think spellscars could have been a great Realms version of Eber-whatsit's dragonmarks.
Yeah, you could even have spellscars being passed down via breeding so that you develop certain ancestral lines that link back to an individual who was scarred. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2447 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 21:53:42
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Guess I'm multiclassing with necromancer, but this post got my attention, as Tymanther is one of my Realms focuses. If you're still interested in doing a 5e Old Empires material for DM's Guild, I can help with 4e stuff (Tymanther and Murghôm, and Akanûl if also included in this area).
quote:
Enlil, Gilgeam, and sort of Nanna Sin, and maybe Ishtar (who was an aspect of Isis at one point) are back, but what about Inanna, Kirru, ect...?
You have to take into account Tiamat, who will be freed from the Nine Hells or not depending on players' actions in her 5e adventures. I guess that if someone is doing a 5e Old Empires conversion, we have to chose a "canon" ending for that document.
Regardless of her ending in those adventures, I can see Tiamat still interested to be revered as a goddess by Gilgeam's opposition (that we know still exists, thanks to The Devil you Know).
And Bahamut, that, according to Dragons of Faerûn (3.5 book) was Marduk all along, a guise (or more accurately, Marduk was an aspect of him) he took to battle Tiamat in Unther as part of their endless draconic battle.
Both Bahamut and Tiamat had a canon presence in Tymanther and Murghôm before WotC forgot about them in the Sundering novels.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Tymanther tries to help, but their is little point in asking for more help, High Imaskar is facing attacks from multiple armies, Gods, and possibly some dragons, and one of the most powerful archwizards in the realms.
Actually, canon (Ashes of the Tyrant) states that in fact Tymanther did not helped High Imaskar during the mulhorandi revolt (that started one or two months before the return of Unther, as the ambassador had recently returned to Djerad Thymar in Nightal of 1486).
They recalled the tymantheran ambassador in High Imaskar back to Djerad Thymar because the tymatherans knew that if they got themselves involved in the war and maybe Mulhorand won (that indeed happened) they would be in a bad position to make a diplomatic relationship with that new nation. Also, most of the tymantherans didn't remembered fondly when High Imaskar left them on their own to face a potential war against Akanûl and Chessenta during Capnolithyl's Xorvintaal stuff (three first novels of the Brotherhood of the Griffon series).
So, Tymanther purposefully left High Imaskar on its own during the mulhorandi revolt, and focused instead in their conflict against "New" Unther. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 02 Feb 2017 22:08:32 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 22:55:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Looking for Threskels origins I stumbled onto the Blade Kingdoms, so I checked that out having never heard of it, it was a group of city states based on North Italy during the Renassiance, but it had lazer beams. WTF?!?! Its sounds like it got stolen from Eberron, except it predate Eberron.
It was between Chondath and Chessenta, so I assume the Spellplague blew it up.
Threskel was Northeast of Chessenta and North of Unther, not between Chondath and Chessenta. Not sure where Italy and lasers came from? It only had one major city that I recall (Mourktar). Mourktar's ruler was dying back in 2nd edition and Assuran (his deity) told him to hold basically an Olympics to find a worthy successor. In third edition they brought in a nearby dracolich and did the whole Tchazzar versus that dracolich thing. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 23:34:31
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Yeah, I liked what they did with Tymanther in Ashes of the Tyrant / Devil You Know. The fact that Enlil has come back and in essence is at odds with his successor Gilgeam is interesting.
In my mind, it COULD be interesting if we find out that Bane/Xvim has in fact infected Gilgeam (long ago), and Enlil finds some means to break this hold. With the largest temple of Bane in all of Faerun nearby in Mourktar in Threskel (the Black Lord's Cloak), Gilgeam's followers who want to follow Tyranny could go there. Of course, the question is did this great temple to Bane survive the spellplague, etc... into 5th edition.
Hell.... it just now occurs to me, where Mourktar WAS in 3e, is just a big pool of water in 4e (so the water ROSE there, not dropped OR Mourktar went over to Abeir). Since Gilgeam was dead, and his body was in some tomb.... and the largest temple to Bane possibly went over to Abeir... and said largest temple ALSO held a sentient artifact of said god..... hmmmmm, did the Banite priests of Mourktar use an artifact of Bane on the dead body of a god who was a tyrant (i.e. Gilgeam)? Could it be that Xvim is posing as Bane and Bane is now posing as Gilgeam? Or it could go another way, and Gilgeam has taken the Black Lord's Cloak while it was in Abeir, and he thereby absorbed all those worshippers. Since this area (Mourktar) was outside of Unther proper, it wouldn't have been under Mulhorandi control, so it could have been a good place to regroup for him. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 03 Feb 2017 03:09:45 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2447 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2017 : 23:50:06
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| Well, the Devil you Know posses the possibility of Gilgeam being not Gilgeam at all, but another guy (the fact that he called himself "The Son of Victory" and not the "Father of Victory" left perplexed a few characters, including Enlil). But Enlil didn't knew the Gilgeam that was before Tiamat killed him, so maybe he don't want to recognize that Gilgeam just became a Tyrant just like the original Imaskari (that oddly enough, the High Imaskari weren't tyrants, so this mulhorandi rebellion against people that weren't enslaving them is really illogical and I saw it as way to bring back Mulhorand because reasons). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 02 Feb 2017 23:52:15 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 01:17:24
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| Is the bit about the deal with Grazzt and the stuff about Enlil in SCAG? |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 02:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
Is the bit about the deal with Grazzt and the stuff about Enlil in SCAG?
<possible spoilers>
It is in the Devil You Know for Grazzt and Enlil. Enlil actually returns, but he returns to the Dragonborn as a deity. Its kind of interesting, because he appears to his chosen among them as a black dragonborn. He offers his aid and protection if they will accept him and give him worship (and he notes, he only needs the worship so that he can be strong enough to protect them), but he doesn't hide the fact that he was a god of humankind (specifically the people of Unther). The dragonborn also accept some Mulans recently returned from Abeir who were under Gilgeam's thumb, but who don't want to follow Gilgeam. Basically dragonborn clans don't believe everyone needs to be of the same blood to be clanmates... they simply have to share the same goals and values. I don't want to spoil too much, but the book is really good from that perspective, in that it actually delves the concept that it makes it believable HOW it happens. Its not just "and Enlil showed up and all the dragonborn were like yay we have a god".
I must admit, I know Nanna-Sin was reborn in some form of "immortal" body (but not as a god)... but the original poster states that he became the dragon turtle.... I don't know if that's true... I can't honestly state that I recall WHAT Nanna-Sin returned as though. I guess I assumed his old body became animate, minus its divine spark. I will drop it at that though, because I really think I may be spoiling the book. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 02:30:48
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2447 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 02:41:42
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
It is in the Devil You Know for Grazzt and Enlil. Enlil actually returns, but he returns to the Dragonborn as a deity. Its kind of interesting, because he appears to his chosen among them as a black dragonborn. He offers his aid and protection if they will accept him and give him worship (and he notes, he only needs the worship so that he can be strong enough to protect them), but he doesn't hide the fact that he was a god of humankind (specifically the people of Unther). The dragonborn also accept some Mulans recently returned from Abeir who were under Gilgeam's thumb, but who don't want to follow Gilgeam. Basically dragonborn clans don't believe everyone needs to be of the same blood to be clanmates... they simply have to share the same goals and values. I don't want to spoil too much, but the book is really good from that perspective, in that it actually delves the concept that it makes it believable HOW it happens. Its not just "and Enlil showed up and all the dragonborn were like yay we have a god".
Something that I find odd, because Bahamut and Torm were helping the dragonborn since years before the Sundering (Brotherhood of the Griffon novels), so they already had a god (or two gods)... but I can bet WotC downplayed those gods in the novels because their foolish idea of negate all that had a little importance in 4e (regardless if it was good or not).
quote:
I must admit, I know Nanna-Sin was reborn in some form of "immortal" body (but not as a god)... but the original poster states that he became the dragon turtle.... I don't know if that's true... I can't honestly state that I recall WHAT Nanna-Sin returned as though. I guess I assumed his old body became animate, minus its divine spark. I will drop it at that though, because I really think I may be spoiling the book.
IRC, the dragon turtle is one of Nanna-Sin's servants (and it seems, one of his older servants), not Nanna-Sin himself. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11716 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2017 : 22:23:34
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Yeah, they do mention in the books that some of the dragonborn had accepted foreign gods. But the rest of the dragonborn still treat those individuals as "weird". However, with the way they handle Enlil (that he puts a shield around the entire city made of lightning to protect it from the ravages of the second sundering)... you can see how they might all go "Whoa, this god thing is good". Especially whenever after the second sundering they find out that a bunch of people had died that they knew and not simply been transferred back to Abeir.
I did like how at the start of it all, some dragonborn were trying to do a ritual to transfer themselves back to Abeir as well. Makes you wonder "just what DID they accomplish?". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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5e The Old Empires
