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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 17:20:08
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Okay I've been looking for info on the lost empire of Bakar.
So far this is what I have found.
Imaskari Survivor Stat, existed in the Raurin Desert thanks to a magical river, that dried up thanks to a Curse from Amun-Re, their last Pharoh who was cursed in turn by Osris the Mulhorandi God.
It oddly worshipped the Mulhorandi Pantheon, but also other Gods not found else where in the Forgotten Realms, like the Titan Prometheus and Baldur from the Norse Pantheon, amoung others, who gained those faiths from travellers from other worlds.
It had several major cities, Terbakar, Phoenix, others.
The only person left from that empire is likely the Archwizard Mertek who would have been resurrected during the Deserts of Desolation adventure.
Here is the thing, if this adventure had been completed in world, then shouldn't by now the river Athis be flowing again restoring the region?
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 18:49:54
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| Just wondering, where's the main source of the information you have so far? Was it the old desert of desolation adventure that they updated to second edition and then imported to the realms? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 19:03:58
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| Yes, mostly. I think the Imaskari Survivor stat thing came from elsewhere. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 19:40:19
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My assumption has always been that the adventure has NOT been completed.. or they just walked off with the decanter of endless water (thats what made the river, IIRC).
Although I may be confusing this with some of my homebrew for the region - I had a timeline going, connecting the Hordelands to Faerūn, K-T, and Zakhara (and even Malatra a little bit).
Essentially, we have it where after the godwall came down and the heart of the empire was destroyed, there were over a dozen 'survivor states' that clung to life for a few centuries, at least three of which existed in today's Raurin. I think that the Plains of Purple Dust were that 'heart', and the Desert of Desolation was more to the south and east, although that remained fertile for awhile longer.
The way I see it, there WAS some major waterway - perhaps even a large lake (connecting to Brightstar lake/Gbor Nor) in the PoPD area, and after the obliteration of that, some of the survivors (Bakar?) got together and kept the defunct river 'flowing' with a decanter of endless water (such things have been done before). I believe that was the River Athis. Once the 'curse' shut that down, the river stopped flowing, and the final three kingdoms left in that region crumbled. The three kingdoms named in the GHotR are Nemrut (the 'heart' of Imaskar), Raurin (a misnomer by modern sages - actually Bakar), and Linia... which was later reduced to just the Citystate of Solon.
Thommar was another 'fallen kingdom' (survivor state) just to the south, but its lands got 'eaten' by Durpar and Ulgarth (I had a lot of history tied to that). I've never made a complete list of Imaskari survivor-states... perhaps I should. Its probably closer to 20, if I count all the states created by their slaves.
I just realized my 'Hordelands' map never made it up here at the keep - I should send that to him ASAP.
You can find out even a little more from a Core D&D source - check pg.104 of Dragon Magic (3e) and the Legacy Weapon: Wyrmbane Helm for some insight into what I presume to have been Linia (Solon) in the past.
I REALLY need to do a series of historical maps of FR... maybe someday. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Nov 2016 19:48:13 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 19:58:21
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And the Hordelands material... very carefully. You'll find so many hidden gems in that your heart will sing.
There are so many sources for the region, but they don't seem to have referenced each other at all, and they conflict in a few places. I tried ironing them out with my timeline - the biggest 'monkey wrench' in all that was the first emperor of Kara-Tur, Tan Chin; he had at least two other names/identities, and waffles between being a 'good' guy and a villain. I managed to fix most of the problems with a healthy dose of homebrew and running with one major canon factoid - he was a (Suel) Lich, capable of 'possessing' a host (which artificially aged them faster). At least one of his identities - Ambuchar Devyam - was able to obtain his 'freedom' for a time (I had it where Tan Chin was 'visiting' another host down in Tempat Larang - thats where the oft-overlooked Ronin Challenge comes in). Thus, why we see differences in his personality... that, and he didn't consider himself a 'villain', and probably didn't start out as one (no more than perhaps a haughty Gold Elf who does bad things for 'the greater good'). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 20:57:08
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The adventures that would become the Deserts of Desolation in 2e had no connection to FR, they were added when in 2e they were combined into the Desert od Desolation adventurer, which got reconned into being in FR, which created the Bakar, which was later declared an Imaskari Survivor state. Why an Imaskari State like Bakar adopted the Gods who'd destroyed Imaskar is unknown, but I assume it was to keep Mulhorand from destroying them, appeasement, so they took up a bastardized form that took a horrible turn by the end.
It just occurred to me to ask about it, because if the Imaskar has been driven back into the Raurin desert, its be a great place to rebuilt if they can get the river Athis to flow again.
Also they are redoing past legendary adventures in 5e, so I thought DoD would get hit eventually, so it'd be good to figure out the current state of the former Bakar. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Nov 2016 : 23:45:46
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Personally, DoD would have been better shoe-horned into Calimshan - don't know why they picked the Raurin (come to think of it, yes I do - so as to not conflict with ACTUAL FR lore).
Lets see, we got us a big meanie-head Efreet causing a ruckus, and we have to get a Djinn to go and fight him to end all the problems...
Yup... nothing at all like Calimshan.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2016 : 03:02:35
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You make an excellent point, it does sound like Calimshan.
I think they placed it in the Raurin because of the Pyrimids and the Egyptian Gods, which is the only FR product that actually admits straight up that the Mulhorandi Gods are Egyptian, the other books just hint strongly at it.
Its a very strange book in some ways, which added a very strange former empire that rarely got mentioned after. An Imaskari state that worshipped Mulhorandi Gods. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 : 00:13:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Personally, DoD would have been better shoe-horned into Calimshan - don't know why they picked the Raurin (come to think of it, yes I do - so as to not conflict with ACTUAL FR lore).
Lets see, we got us a big meanie-head Efreet causing a ruckus, and we have to get a Djinn to go and fight him to end all the problems...
Yup... nothing at all like Calimshan.
Yeah, but let's face it... what's really near that area as well... Zakhara. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 : 04:20:09
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Yeah, but Zakhara was its own setting, and didn't need any 'adds'. They just decided to recycle some generic D&D lore and place it on the outskirts of Faerūn.
The big problem with all that is the major plot sounds way too much like what happened in ancient Calimshan.
There's also mentions of gods of other (Earth) pantheons in that product, which I have no problem with, since many of those pantheons already have some presence in The Realms. I figure Bakar was a region where there was much study of other plains and cultures, and they took a special interest in the world they had stolen so many slaves from (hence all those books detailing other earth pantheons).
It also makes sense they worshiped the Mulhorandi gods post-fall - its called 'sucking up' so you don't get another beat-down. 
Or... (just thought of this) it might make even more sense if that region also had a great number of Egyptian 'house slaves' (as opposed to the harder-worked field slaves in distant agricultural areas), thus it was really the slaves that took-over post-fall and ran the place for a time. They may have even interbred with their former masters... maybe thats where the term 'Mujhuri' comes from. They were the people of mixed blood, that probably stayed-on in Imaskar, and the Golden Waters region. I may have to rethink a few things - Mujhur could be a (FR) term for the Persian-like culture we see in Semphar, and somewhat in Murghōm. I had it as a term representing the Bedouin-like people who migrated up from Zakhara through the Utter East and on into the Golden Waters (and then Imaskar), but I think I like it better as a hybrid ethnicity (and more Realmsian that way). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2016 : 17:26:12
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Actually the Mulan as a whole interbreed with the Imaskari, that how they went from being Mesopotamians and Egyptians, into being the Mulan, all three races intermixed during the Imaskar Empire.
I had a weird thought that Egypt and Mesopotamia were not the only regions pillaged from.
What if Bakar had been made of up of a mix of smaller slave populations, Greeks, Sudanese (who I believe were at one time culturally and religiously connected to the Egyptians there are actually Sudanese Pyramids in the Sudan, and one of the Pharohs of Egypt was Sudanese, not Egyptian), with maybe small Slavic and Norse populations, that mixed together, with Imaskari.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2016 : 21:39:10
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| It could be interesting if families of mixex Imaskari and Mulans who don't want to be invovled in the Imaskar-Mulhorand war decided to rebuild Bakar. |
Edited by - Gyor on 03 Dec 2016 21:44:16 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Dec 2016 : 02:17:51
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I had similar ideas of my own - one of the god books (P&P?) hints that there were 'waves' of people brought from earth, not just the main ones we always hear about.
What if THAT is what the Imaskari were doing? Experimenting with 'godhood'? What if they learned how to read (and later manipulate) the underlying 'code' of Realmspace? That the way it works is if there is a certain amount of 'Elan' (a great word I stole from another game, which amounts to 'worship juice', or 'faith energy') directed at a being, he/she gets an 'invitation' to join the ranks of Toril's pantheon(s). Maybe they were bringing-over all different size groups from different regions/time periods (and NOT just from Earth), and were trying to see at which point (the 'threshold') the being would become part of Realmspace's cosmology. That would explain all those books (and rooms) detailing all those different pantheons in Desert of Desolation.
Maybe turning them into 'slaves' was merely a byproduct of a much larger enterprise - to get those people to worship them, like the god-kings of Ancient Egypt, Sumeria, Baylonia, etc. maybe, all you really need is worshipers to become a god (and a fairly high-level, in D&D terms). Maybe thats what they were really doing. Because they studied that 'Divine Code', they were able to manipulate it in such a way to block the actual gods from coming over (the Godwall, which is canon). They basically 'hacked' the crystal sphere.
And they were hoping that all that excess Elan would go to them, in time, and cause an apotheosis. Who knows? Maybe it DID happen to a couple of them (Aoskar?). And then Ptah, and maybe Set & Baast (and perhaps Ao himself) set about to give those pantheons a 'back door' in which to enter Realmspace - the Imaskari would have never seen that coming.
But getting back to Bakar - I DO picture them being of 'mixed blood'. I think all the survivors (that didn't go underground) must have had mixed blood, because I think the Mulan deities would have been VERY thorough in tracking down all the pure-blood Imaskari and wiping them out. Ra has no sense of humor what-so-ever.
Way back when I was working on the Hordelands project, I had a write-up for all the Taangan tribes, and each had slightly differing percentages of ethnic stock in them (the Tuigan, for example, had a very high % of Shou/Wu blood, whereas the Khassidi were almost entirely Raumvari/Rashemi). I thinkI even made the Fankiang Hobgoblins (and I actually had some canon basis for that, from the novels). You'll recall that all the Taangan (tuigan tribes) were once part of the greater Imaskar empire. So were the shou (although they, themselves, are actually a hybrid group at this point, between an indigenous eastern people, and some group that entered Realmspace - "The Follower of the Dragon", either brought over by the Imaskari, or came because of the Imaskari. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Dec 2016 02:37:54 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2016 : 16:35:28
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| I just think it'd be interesting if Bakar was being rebuilt. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2016 : 18:48:03
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Well, every single desert (aside from those over in Maztica... AFAIK) we have in canon was created 'magically', or at least, artificially (probably BECAUSE of a nearby magical catastrophe).
In the case of the Quoya, I tried to at least fudge things in such a way as to make it more natural (there is a single reference to the Quoya having been non-desert at one time). In my (homebrew) KT material, I have it where it was originally scrublands, similar to the great plains of the American northwest. By 'originally', I mean a LONG time ago, probably pre-Crown Wars. Then someone - possibly the Fey Creators, or the ancient Elves, or even the Imaskari - did 'something' to make the region more fertile (I tied it to the Mountain of Iron in the North of the Taan region). I think a vast region was 'heated up' over the course of milenia, melting many of the glaciers that existed in the K-T mountain ranges. Thus, the 'fertility' of the Quoya was artificial, created by magical means over a very long period of time. Then the war with the Mulan Gods and the Imaskari happened, and it 'nuked' whatever was making things more hospitable (or, conversely, if it was some magic by the Fey or some other primordial source, it may have simply 'wore out').
So, in my musings, its not so much that the desert was created magically, but rather, it has just gone back to the way it was (actually, its worse than how it was, because the more tropical plant life could not survive the extreme conditions, as the original flora and fauna could have). There is still one fertile patch in the Quoya - the Merket Depression - where fruit trees can still be cultivated. That was obviously a lake at one time.
Not sure where I was going with this... old age and all...
Oh, got it! After the Spellplague (and to a lesser extent the earlier ToT), a lot of magic failed, or went haywire. We also had a second Sundering, more recently. So, if a lot of things got 'reset', the Raurin - or at least, parts of it, could possibly be getting more fertile again.
And while I am on the subject, the Great Glacier should be MUCH smaller by now - if anyone re-does Vassa/Damara for 5e, please keep that in mind. At the very least, there should be vast (cold) swamps all along the the northern frontier.
And now that I'm thinking on it, two other wetlands should have grown (or shrunk, if the magic failed) - The March of Chelimber being one of them. This is why the Realms cartographer (for 5e) really needs to know ALL the lore.
Too bad we don't know where to find a guy like that... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Dec 2016 18:49:12 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 13:07:49
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The Raurin lands around the River Athis were clearly ethnically and culturally mixed, probably consisting of former Imaskari slaves who did not elect to follow the God-Kings to found Mulhorand and Unther, as well as surviving Imaskari and various subject peoples.
The Imaskari facility for planar magic neatly explains the many influences from non-FR pantheons and cultures, as when the Godswall fell, the Imaskari magics that allowed planar travel also allowed for many foreign gods to be brought back.
As Bakar and the other realms were situated on sites of rich Imaskari heritage, with plenty of magical lore and powerful items that could be repurposed, it's plausible that even if there were no mages in these survivor states who were remotely close to the Imaskari Artificer-Lords in power, they still had much easier access to planar resources, allies and trade.
What I'm wondering is what kind of relations these Raurin realms had with Tsharoon and any other lost kingdoms in the neighbourhood, as well as their relations with Mulhorand and Unther. They lasted until the 4th century of Dale Reckoning, meaning that they existed through most of the history of the Old Empires, and appear to have been functionally independent, although they might well have been theoretical provinces (like Murghom and Semphar in the modern day) at some points in history.
During the First Empire, especially between -1250 DR and the Orcgate Wars, I imagine that the Raurin lands were brought under Mulhorandi rule, but it is very plausible that this rule became theoretical only after the Orcgate Wars and might have ended entirely.
The Second Mulhorandi Empire might or might not have tried to take over the Raurin kingdoms again, but given that they were functionally independent at the time of Martek (fl. ca 350 DR), this obviously didn't work too well.
So, what were relations like in that time?
To take just a random example, during the War of the Claws (202-211 DR) with Eltabranar and the First Mulhorandi-Durpar Coin War (317 DR), did Bakar and the other Raurin realms support either side? Did they trade with either or both? Have embassies in their lands? |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2020 : 16:20:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
In short raurin was geographically difficult to access from mulhorand and I don't think they wanted anything to do with imaskari survivors
But Mulhorand specifically brought former Imaskari lands to the East under its rule in -1,250 DR and onward. That's Murghom and Semphar, true, but why would they stop at those?
Bakar specifically traded extensively with Untheri, Mulhorandi, Murghomi and Semphari cities, so it's not like travel there was impossible. At the height of Raurin civilization, there were raised limestone roads through the desert, presumably dotted with wells, qanats and the occasional oasis.
As for Imaskari 'survivors', some three thousand years after the end of a culture, there will still be people who descend from it, but they'll have as much in common with it as modern people have with Phoeniceans or Chaldeans. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 16 Jul 2020 16:24:26 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 15:08:41
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It's very true that Imaskar was a multiethnic slave nation and probably everywhere in the empire, more slaves survived than pureblooded Imaskari. We shouldn't forget that the Mulan were only one group of slaves and that the empire would have included innumerable ethnic groups, both slave and free.
Indeed, all of the countries of the Endless Wastes, the surrounding mountain ranges and even over much of the Eastern Realms were Imaskari survivor states, despite obviously being very culturally, ethnically and linguistically diverse.
Also, we shouldn't forget that many centuries passed between the Mulan rebellion in Imaskar and the fall of the Artificer-Lords and the founding of Mulhorand and Unther. The followers of the God-Kings were only two parts of the slaves who survived the war, those who chose to leave their homes for religious, political or other reasons and create new realms based on the God-King's interpretation of Mesopotamian or Egyptian culture.
Vitally, as they didn't reach their new lands until every human who was involved in the rebellion was long dead, it seems that at first, they tried to live on the ruins of Imaskar. Indeed, there must have been a lot of unwritten history over those first centuries, with some descendants of the Mulan (and maybe others) accepting the leadership of the God-Kings and others presumably rejecting it.
I think that the states that remained in Raurin must have been settled, at least in part, by religious dissidents among the Mulan and others. As well as the more secular among the descendants of the slaves (and all the free population, it's not like 100% of the population would have died). After all, even among the God-Kings, not everyone would have accepted Enlil's and Ra's leadership without question.
This also fits well with the apparent worship of Anu among Durpari tribes and in the Raurin. That would have been one of the dissident religious movements. In my campaign, I'd also postulate a lot of variations of Ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian religions, as those are much more diverse in the real world than in Mulhorand and Unther. Supporting that are the various temples in the ruins of Raurin to deities not worshipped in modern Mulhorand and Unther, or worshipped under different names. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 20:27:46
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Yeah, one thing to bear in mind is that the Desert of Desolation module indicates some worship of gods that would generally be considered "Mulhorandi". There's references to a "god-king" by the name of Amon-Re (that I would probably turn into an incarnation of Ra). So, perhaps some of the royal family left Mulhorand. Perhaps they never joined Mulhorand initially. Perhaps there's even some links between Amon-Re, At'ar, and Amaunator (Amon-Re-At-Ar). There could be several other gods from down here that might have appeared in Netheril as well (Jergal and Nergal could easily have ties for instance). Note, I'm saying "ties" and not "the same being", as in perhaps for instance an incarnation of Nergal was somehow involved with the ascension of Jergal (or perhaps something to do with the manifestation of Nergal). There's also a temple of Tyche in the desert of desolation area and Tyche is found in Netheril.
There's also mentions of Set, a temple of Ra, a temple of Horus, a temple of Osiris, etc.... in Medinat Muskawoon.
By the way on the source of the river Athis (which in the original adventure was a simple decanter of endless water), how would you change this for modern day? A 5e decanter of endless water would require someone to activate it every round. I'm thinking this thing should be an artifact of a god. Preferably a god of rivers, such as Isis or Ishtar. Since the gods shown are primarily Mulhorandi, I'd say go with Isis. Also, while at first it would seem that it would be best to open a portal to the elemental plane of water, perhaps it should instead open a portal to the divine domain of Heliopolis and an actual flow from the River Isis is what used to come through it (to note this is the description of what the River Isis does "A life-giving river fl ows through a barren desert, turning the earth
around it lush and green. The River Isis flows with holy water, the source of all life on this plane. Near its banks, the land is covered
with thick grass and dotted with fi g and palm trees. Farther from
the water, the constant glare of the sun bleaches the earth bare, and
desert winds grind stone into sand."
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 18 Jul 2020 22:15:49 |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 22:27:06
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I'm pretty sure that even in the original adventure, the River Athis wasn't just a Decanter of Endless Water. It might have been a decanter that emitted endless water, but it was a lot more powerful than a typical such item.
For one thing, the water from the source, I seem to recall, conferred magical blessings. For another, it irrigated a lot of desert, which is more streamflow than the 0.44 MGD (millions of gallons per day) than a Decanter of Endless Water would enable. (Edit: Of course, the fact that the original Decanter of Endless Water and the 3.x Decanter of Endless Water have the same 30 gallons per round 'geyser' setting, but the different editions have different time scales means that the original Decanter of Endless Water is an order of magnitude less powerful than that, making it 0.044 MGD).
For reference, the Nile, on Earth, is over four orders of magnitude larger than that. Sure, maybe the Athis Valley was smaller than Egypt and the Sudan, but it's not 0.01% of its size.
I can't find a handy map with a scale to compare it, but I figure that we're talking somewhere over two orders of magnitude, which, yeah, definitely means artifact/relic/epic magic territory. |
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Forgotten Realms fans, please sign a petition to re-release the FR Interactive Atlas
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Edited by - Icelander on 18 Jul 2020 22:43:34 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2020 : 23:35:34
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Perhaps a good thing to do would be to mine the module for data in the form of rulers and/or city names and other information.
For instance, page 109 of the module confirms that there were 2 cities, Pazar and Akhir, which were at blood feud with the "Al-Alisk Clan" for 5 generations prior to the river drying up because a Sultan's daughter of Pazar on her wedding night before she could marry Athas Al-Din of Akhir. She was sealed in a crystal box "to preserve her beauty" and placed in a crypt by the "Al-Alisk Clan", and Martek migrated this crypt into an extradimensional space. Later states that the city of Akhir is IN the desert of Al-Alisk. SLEYVAS' NOTE: This story of them taking her just to preserve her like a Barbie doll in its wrapper needs work. Perhaps she was an incarnation of a love goddess like Isis and they intended to drain her divinity or something.
Other cities are Medinat Muskawood (the Cursed City of Stone), which gets its own chapter. It had a lake called Me'at Halwa (meaning Sweet Waters) created by the River Athis and eventually to the sea.
page 94 mentions The Goldenflow, Semkhrun, Zindalankh, Ustann, and Phanaskul that traded with Medinat Muskawoon. It also mentions that the people of Unther, the Uttermost East, and steel-clad warriors of the "then-primitive Inner Sea Lands" met in Medinat Muskawoon and that it hand more languages spoken there than anywhere in the world at the time.
Gates of Sule
Terbakar and the crypt of Amun-Re.
Carthag is also known as the City of Phoenix. It was the city where the wealthy and powerful came to resorts, for the cities healing waters revitalized the spirit. The city abounded in "jokes, tricks, and puzzles that catered to the whims of the very rich". Mazes and other dangerous traps were carefully watched so that noone would die in them. The entire city was covered in a dome.
City of Phoenix and Pazar is mentioned as south of Medinat Muskawoon on page 94.
Pazar is referred to as the Garden City of Pazar and held a temple to Amun-Re and the Fountain of Athis. Contained a temple of "Eilish" that Martek placed the imprisoned efreet Khalitharius within. Who is Eilish? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 19 Jul 2020 00:25:55 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2020 : 00:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Icelander
I'm pretty sure that even in the original adventure, the River Athis wasn't just a Decanter of Endless Water. It might have been a decanter that emitted endless water, but it was a lot more powerful than a typical such item.
For one thing, the water from the source, I seem to recall, conferred magical blessings. For another, it irrigated a lot of desert, which is more streamflow than the 0.44 MGD (millions of gallons per day) than a Decanter of Endless Water would enable. (Edit: Of course, the fact that the original Decanter of Endless Water and the 3.x Decanter of Endless Water have the same 30 gallons per round 'geyser' setting, but the different editions have different time scales means that the original Decanter of Endless Water is an order of magnitude less powerful than that, making it 0.044 MGD).
For reference, the Nile, on Earth, is over four orders of magnitude larger than that. Sure, maybe the Athis Valley was smaller than Egypt and the Sudan, but it's not 0.01% of its size.
I can't find a handy map with a scale to compare it, but I figure that we're talking somewhere over two orders of magnitude, which, yeah, definitely means artifact/relic/epic magic territory.
I'd have to doublecheck the source, and I could easily be wrong, but honestly sounds like we're both agreeing that it should be an artifact. I agree too though that I'm looking at the tomb of Amun-Re and it says that it has "the waters of Athis" and that the water heals. Even more a reason to maybe make it an adjunct of the River Isis from the divine domain of Heliopolis.
Ah, and there's the source on page 40 in the temple of Amun-Re there's the Fountain of Athis. Apparently you have to do some things in the temple to start it up again. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Icelander
Master of Realmslore
1864 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jul 2020 : 00:46:11
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| In real life, Eilish is a Gaelification of a Hebrew name, so either we postulate that it's some unknown deity that perhaps didn't survive in any neighbouring area or that it is some planar influence. Bakar is likely to have had access to a lot of Imaskari magical stuff, including many ways to other planes. |
Za uspiekh nashevo beznadiozhnovo diela!
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Bakar
