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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5747 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2016 :  12:56:21  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Was searching through the OGB last night (great stuff in there, like the river Lis is navigable along its entire length because mages from the Moonsea cities lowered its falls) when i came across a rumour about Ballouchs Hold (sorry about the misspelling ill get the proper quote tonight) being discovered in the glacier of the white worm filled with treasures.

Now im going to assume its a true rumour because it suits me to do so.

The quote also mentioned Ballouch as being the first bandit lord of the inner sea.


So my questions are thus.

1 when was Ballouch the reigning bandit lord of the inner sea - im thinking after the fall of netheril and before the founding of impiltur (generally a time when humans began to settle the north of the inner sea after the netherese and jhaamdath diaspora).

2 did Ballouch build it atop the glacier (and if so, why because glaciers are not your typical place to build a big draughty keep). If he did not build it atop the glacier then does this point to a time when the glacier of the white worm did not exist or was much smaller (which is great since i was going to link its creation to an after effect of the fall of narfell and a massive monster).

Any thoughts or other mentions in other sourcebooks (or novels if nowhere else).

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5747 Posts

Posted - 29 Nov 2016 :  20:26:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got the quote

quote:
Barroch#146;s Hold has been found. The fabled citadel of the first great bandit lord of the Inner Sea lies south and east of the cities of the Moonsea, in the Glacier of the White Worm. The adventurers who found it encountered a number of strange creatures and were scattered or slain. Two survivors reached Orm to tell the tale: Feenoch the Five-Fingered, a rogue of some infamy, and Yostur Ulhmond, a young fighter from the villages of the Snow People in Thar, blond-haired and strong as an ox. The two evaded queries about treasure, but there is talk in Hillsfar that they have been trying to gather together a large adventuring band with sledges. (*)


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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe

Australia
385 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2016 :  04:30:41  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I covered this for the wiki:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Barroch%27s_Hold
But couldn't find anything more about it. It's one of those OGB things that really were never followed up on, as promised.

Here:
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=20083&whichpage=2
We speculated a connection between Barroch's Hold and the Citadel of the White Worm (later home to the Ilmateri monks), and between them to the ancient minotaur kingdom of Grong-Haap, which was once dominant in the area. That explains the impractically large buildings, which Barroch and the monks later moved into.

I assume they're not built on the glacier, but rather next to it or overlooking it.

BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2016 :  07:28:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is also a 'Lothchas' bandit lord in the same area, who's keep is in the mountains just south of the glacier - he preys upon travelers in The Vast.

Not sure where I read that - it might also be OGB.

You could always spin it that Lothchas found the Barroch's keep and is using it (the glacier used to be bigger... MUCH bigger.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Nov 2016 07:31:43
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5747 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2016 :  10:29:28  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

There is also a 'Lothchas' bandit lord in the same area, who's keep is in the mountains just south of the glacier - he preys upon travelers in The Vast.

Not sure where I read that - it might also be OGB.

You could always spin it that Lothchas found the Barroch's keep and is using it (the glacier used to be bigger... MUCH bigger.




Lothchas was in the OGB but i think it mentions him located in the giantspine mountains which i presumed was a mispelling of the giantspire mountains which present problems in itself (unless he is a human thrall of that succubi demon whose name i cant remember but who plagues impiltur.


As for the great glacier it has been both bigger and smaller in the past and i the glacier of the white worm has been part of it but is now separate.

I was going to have the great glacier expand from -500 onwards as the high ice in netheril expanded.

That means barrochs hold may well have been free of ice at that time (because i peg the formation of the glacier of the white worm to an event related to the fall of narfell.

I quite like that barrochs hold was the same as the ilmatari monastery. It means all his treasure lies in the catacombs (and maybe a few nasties) and has been funding the monks for ages.

Which of course means those two adventurers found a different stronghold (probably another giant watchtower to guard the mountain passes into ostoria). And they got killed by a nasty thing that lives there, and i mean to use the same nasty thing that i think created and maintains the glacier of the white worm.


Now onto the next juicy lore from the ogb

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2016 :  10:24:42  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, there was an inconsistency with the lore regarding Lothchas, which I believe has to do with the way the maps were changed from Ed's originals to the published, OGB ones (in other words, all that lore was written BEFORE TSR got its hands on the maps and changed them by shrinking the glacier{s} and adding Vassa & Damara). I believe I attempted a small fix when I did the map of Impiltur, by naming those foothils the Desertspire Hills. I no longer recall HOW, precisely, that fixed anything. LOL

But my idea (IIRC) was that The Vast (Vastarr) WAS desert-like (scrub-plains) for a time, and then the glaciers started to melt, which irrigated all that dry land, and made it more fertile. All that to explain-away a single mention of 'desert' in regards to something near that glacier. However, it does help with a couple of other conundrums, like why humans - or elves/dwarves - hadn't really settled that area for thousands of years, but Orcs had... and were left-alone, for the most part (because it was crap and no-one really wanted it). Between the dryness and cold winds blowing down from the (previously much larger) glacier in the north, it was similar to the Siberian Tundra - very inhospitable. Thar was much the same (only the temperature-stabilizing waters of the Moonsea kept the coastal regions habitable).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5747 Posts

Posted - 01 Dec 2016 :  11:53:53  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice idea. The forest that the srinshee came from means the desert could only be on the eastern side but desert could be tundra scrub land or dusty plains like much of americas mid west. There is vegetation but not enough to sustain settlements of more than a few buildings.

Im sure i will come across the inconsistency and likely draw a similar conclusion. I find that time is a great fixer of contradictions. I used that to explain away many conflicting statements about netheril. They are all true but just at different times. A lot can happen in a decade so anything can happen in a century or even a millennia.

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