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sleyvas
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Posted - 19 Nov 2016 :  20:10:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I'm picturing a small mouse like humanoid... the size of maybe a goblin or kobold. I picture them as generally non-aggressive like halflings, but I'm also picturing them as having a general life span of say 20 years compared to a human's 70-100. As a result, their societies have never progressed much beyond tribal levels, and they are often used by more powerful races as slaves. They generally learn very fast, but have never developed a written language, and thus they adapt quickly as workers to whatever environment they are exposed to. Has there ever been a race like this developed for the realms or another D&D world (I'm betting there has), and if so what name were they given.

I'm specifically NOT picturing a rat like folk (which I plan on creating a medium sized version of them).

Along similar lines, a Meerkat/weasel like humanoid folk which would be medium in size, anyone heard of anything like this?


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

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Posted - 19 Nov 2016 :  21:16:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I picture something between a rodent and a human, like a 'borrower'. Tiny, with mouse-like features (maybe even a tail), but much more human-seeming than mouse.

Hmmmm... I thought 'Borrowers' were mouse-like, but when I went looking for a pic, they're really not (although I like to use their culture for something akin to what you are talking about).

Maybe something like THIS.

I could have sworn there was a creature in D&D - maybe I'm thinking of the Koul-something? Can't recall the whole name.

EDIT: I was thinking of the Killmoulis. It was VERY rodent-like in 1e, but seems to have become more human (a brownie type) in 2e.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 20 Nov 2016 03:55:23
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Fellfire
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Posted - 19 Nov 2016 :  22:26:42  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Lots of homebrew out there, but nothing official that I can find or in any source that I recall.

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EltonRobb
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Posted - 20 Nov 2016 :  04:29:09  Show Profile Send EltonRobb a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I picture something between a rodent and a human, like a 'borrower'. Tiny, with mouse-like features (maybe even a tail), but much more human-seeming than mouse.

Hmmmm... I thought 'Borrowers' were mouse-like, but when I went looking for a pic, they're really not (although I like to use their culture for something akin to what you are talking about).

Maybe something like THIS.

I could have sworn there was a creature in D&D - maybe I'm thinking of the Koul-something? Can't recall the whole name.




Skavin?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 20 Nov 2016 :  04:40:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EltonRobb

quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I picture something between a rodent and a human, like a 'borrower'. Tiny, with mouse-like features (maybe even a tail), but much more human-seeming than mouse.

Hmmmm... I thought 'Borrowers' were mouse-like, but when I went looking for a pic, they're really not (although I like to use their culture for something akin to what you are talking about).

Maybe something like THIS.

I could have sworn there was a creature in D&D - maybe I'm thinking of the Koul-something? Can't recall the whole name.




Skavin?



Skaven aren't tiny or from D&D.

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sleyvas
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USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 22 Nov 2016 :  14:07:55  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah, I definitely want to stay away from Warhammer names (think that's where the Skaven are from). For Rats, we at least have Nezumi from the Oriental Adventures handbook that I can work from. Mouslings, I've seen in story books for kids, with a mouse that's dressed in clothes essentially, and that's exactly what I'm looking for... but I know mousling is the name used in that kid's book series... so I was hoping there was a specific similar thing for D&D. Guessing not.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 22 Nov 2016 :  15:38:54  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

yeah, I definitely want to stay away from Warhammer names (think that's where the Skaven are from). For Rats, we at least have Nezumi from the Oriental Adventures handbook that I can work from. Mouslings, I've seen in story books for kids, with a mouse that's dressed in clothes essentially, and that's exactly what I'm looking for... but I know mousling is the name used in that kid's book series... so I was hoping there was a specific similar thing for D&D. Guessing not.



They're not FR, but there are intelligent, tool-using squirrels in D&D -- the kercpa. They're essentially overly large squirrels (about 1.5 feet tall) and prefer to dress the same as elves.

So the precedent is there, in D&D, for not smaller than human intelligent rodents.

I'd start with the Latin name for mice and tweak that somewhat for a name for the race.

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sleyvas
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USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2016 :  02:30:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

yeah, I definitely want to stay away from Warhammer names (think that's where the Skaven are from). For Rats, we at least have Nezumi from the Oriental Adventures handbook that I can work from. Mouslings, I've seen in story books for kids, with a mouse that's dressed in clothes essentially, and that's exactly what I'm looking for... but I know mousling is the name used in that kid's book series... so I was hoping there was a specific similar thing for D&D. Guessing not.



They're not FR, but there are intelligent, tool-using squirrels in D&D -- the kercpa. They're essentially overly large squirrels (about 1.5 feet tall) and prefer to dress the same as elves.

So the precedent is there, in D&D, for not smaller than human intelligent rodents.

I'd start with the Latin name for mice and tweak that somewhat for a name for the race.



Hmmm, decent idea... Latin for mouse is Musculus... Afrikaans word for mouse if Muis... Swahili is panya... somali is jiir... Irish is Luch... Norwegian is Mus... Zulu is Impuku

I like the ling at the end..... so...

Muisling or Impukuling??? Which do you guys like best?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe

USA
486 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2016 :  00:03:27  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Muislings has a nice look to it.

I'm envisioning the mice from the RPG Mouse Gard.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2016 :  22:51:30  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

Muislings has a nice look to it.

I'm envisioning the mice from the RPG Mouse Gard.



Mouseguard novels are exactly what got me thinking on it. I'm thinking though of some interesting sub-races. For instance, we already know that illithids have performed psionic experiments and created cranium rats. What if they decided to try similar experimentation on these Muislings. Similarly, Meerkats are somewhat mouse/weasel like and are known for living in underground tunnels.... what if they have some magical earth control, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 28 Nov 2016 :  23:03:06  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What if the muislings sometimes ride the more feral giant rats?

Sort of how the rabbits of Watership Down rode the more primitive Hares.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 30 Nov 2016 :  00:32:03  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

What if the muislings sometimes ride the more feral giant rats?

Sort of how the rabbits of Watership Down rode the more primitive Hares.



You kind of read my mind. They can't ride giant rats, because they're also small. However, I was picturing them riding giant weasels and badgers. Below are the notes I was making for them

By the way, the general concept I was going for with this is in Northwestern Katashaka. Have red wizards running the "Tharch of the Western Pridelands of Katashaka". The area is filled with various humanoid and Tauric Catfolk, gnolls, a gray fox like humanoid race, the Noceri (Rhino humanoids), the Nezumi (rat folk), a stork folk, bullywugs, crocodilians (Khumat), and a few other races. The cat races prey on the muislings, the red wizards have enslaved them. The Noceri used to enslave them and use them to harvest crops (since they are vegetarians)... but the red wizards have hired the Noceri to help be muscle on their own plantations overseeing the muislings.... and the red wizards raise giant rats to trade the meat with the cat folk and gnolls (and they secretly sell elderly muislings in the same manner).


Muislings small humanoids. They ride gazelles, zebras, giant weasels and giant badgers. They are master craftsmen with wood. Their short lifespans (they mature around 6 and live for about 25 years) make them also a race with limited technology, and they speak of the times before the red wizards as ancient times, as they were at least 10 generations of muislings ago. These creatures are a mixture of several breeds of rodent folk including al-miraj (

the Miraji, with long ears and who have a small spiral horn, can teleport short distances, have some minor healing ability....

The Craniar, who are mouse-like and are descendants of muislings who were psionically blasted like Cranium rats by illithids, thus they have limited telepathy with other Muislings within 120 feet, and some psionic abilities such as mage hand, message, mending, friends, unseen servant 1/day, detect thoughts 1/day....

the Meerkatians who have limited earth control such as mold earth, sand tools, sand blade, earth tremor 1/day....

and finally the standard Muislings who are masters of skills)

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1824 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2016 :  02:44:44  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Neat ideas! I first thought of jermlaine but that's pretty clearly not what you're going for.

Your thoughts on campestri in Katashaka? Plant/fungi-like humanoids would seem to be compatible with animal-like humanoids, and it would give them a place in the Realms, while explaining their near-complete absence from Faerun. Just an idea.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore

1757 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2016 :  07:45:06  Show Profile Send Quale a Private Message  Reply with Quote
beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2016 :  17:44:44  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jermlaine could be a feral (and evil) 'offshoot' of a Muisling race.

I would connect a race like this to the Fey, but thats just me.

quote:
Originally posted by Quale

beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans
I'm not finding them in either of the 2e or 3e SS books.
All I can find is the class of the same name.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 03 Dec 2016 17:46:52
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AuldDragon
Learned Scribe

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2016 :  18:51:29  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

quote:
Originally posted by Quale

beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans
I'm not finding them in either of the 2e or 3e SS books.
All I can find is the class of the same name.


Their 2nd Ed stats are in MC11, the second FR Monstrous Compendium appendix.

Jeff

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xaeyruudh
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Posted - 04 Dec 2016 :  20:48:49  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

I'm not finding them in either of the 2e or 3e SS books


They were sadly omitted from the table of contents, but they're on page 60 of the 3e Shining South, ahead of the Halruaan behir.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 05 Dec 2016 :  04:30:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, there it is! Thanks.

And they can all live in 'Meercat Manner'.

I found the Muisling bard.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 08 Dec 2016 :  02:32:42  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh

Neat ideas! I first thought of jermlaine but that's pretty clearly not what you're going for.

Your thoughts on campestri in Katashaka? Plant/fungi-like humanoids would seem to be compatible with animal-like humanoids, and it would give them a place in the Realms, while explaining their near-complete absence from Faerun. Just an idea.



That's interesting, because I was thinking about myconids and campestri being in the jungles of Katashaka.... then I saw vegepygmy's in Volo's guide to monsters and see them as a perfect fit. I was also looking into thorny/vine like plant folk as well.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  13:56:43  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Quale

beguilers (Shining South) are mouse-like, possibly a humanoid version of them created by Halruaans



Thank you. Halruaa and Katashaka are roughly around the same latitude (longitude maybe, I forget). I could see beguilers in this area as well, and if some of them were experimented on by some group along with other rodents to make humanoids... yeah, so we could also also have another subrace besides the miraji, craniar, and meerkatians that have some illusion abilities... wouldn't want to call them beguilers. They may even piss off the red wizard illusionists.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 09 Dec 2016 :  16:55:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Katashaka is more the same latitude as Zakhara, still some 800 miles south of Halruaa. However, the equator is about halfway, and both fall out within the 'tropics'.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2018 :  13:34:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, I've been thinking more and more about this topic recently (and I'm reading the mouseguard series as well), and I just started thinking to myself.... it really would make something different to have the muislings being size tiny instead of size small. Basically, I've been picturing a plentiful and intelligent race that's downtrodden until these Faerunian humans show up and basically protect them from all the other local races that have been eating them. The humans are essentially giants to them (granted no more giant than a gnoll or cat folk who regularly hunt them) and they can help them easily perform tasks that would be difficult for the muislings. Also, these humans are familiar with metal working, which these Katashakan muislings are not at all (they are simple farmers using things like gourds, feathers, wood, bone, stone, leather, etc....), so the humans can build reusable contrivances that the muislings might find immensely useful.


Basically, I'm picturing these muislings to be between 9 to 15 inches tall on average (with their children being about 4 to 6 inches tall). They would very much look like field mice but bigger, with three fingered paws that work like hands. Some may be striped like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four-striped_grass_mouse . Some may even be more squirrel like the African ground squirrel. If they only live 20 years or so, then for them, the last century has been 20 generations or so, and thus similar to us thinking back to a little before the revolutionary war in America. They may have totally adapted their society to having humans around that don't immediately want to eat them.

Their tools would be little more than sticks and stones tied together with tendons/animal hair, etc... I'm picturing them proudly wearing the equivalent of surcoats given to them by the humans and maybe simple paper mache hats. In fact, paper mache may be a large part of their buildings for internal walls, etc.. Their homes might consist of gourds, paper mache, and the small castoff pieces of lumber that the humans can't find a use for from building their own structures (and might typically burn).

Oh, and I may give these muislings the natural ability to cast speak with animals 3/day and possibly a version of animal friendship that ONLY works on mammals of size small or smaller 1/day.

So, why am I bringing this all up? I'd like to throw out there a what if scenario and see what people come back with. So, what if a human made a reusable metal "wagon base" let's say... what kind of reusable things might these mice be able to easily put on such a base with a humans help. For instance, I can literally see a pumpkin that's hollowed out or cut in half, or a gourd. They may

In these scenarios, what kind of creatures from like an African plain could you see that might pull such a wagon or act as a mount or help them work/plow their fields. I can definitely see rabbits similar to the African hare. I can see actual squirrel teams pulling wagons. Others that come to mind are tortoises, aardvarks, small foxes, larger breeds of parrots & cockatoos, hawks/falcons, vultures, peacocks, storks, pelicans, African crowned cranes, kori bustard, iguanas, honey badgers, etc... as others. Anything jump out at someone that I'm not thinking about?


So, with what I'm mentioning does it bring any other pictures to your head as well? Any things that would basically change their culture heavily because they have these humans protecting them (mind you, the humans protect them in order to make them work the field and perform intricate detail and dangerous work that they can't or won't do). I'm picturing the humans able to perform the heavy lifting irrigation work they'd need help with and the muislings through sheer numbers performing the mundane, repetitive, seed planting, fertilizer spreading, weeding, etc... I'm picturing the muislings hollowing out a pumpkins (not necessarily the orange variety here, but more greenish varieties) and using half of it to be a wagon that they preserve to last a few months with preservation. They may also have more traditional small wagons of scrap wood.


http://www.africanepicure.com/about-african-food/vegetables/pumpkin-and-squash/
http://fortuneofafrica.com/ug/pumpkin-growing-in-uganda/

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2018 :  13:43:05  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh,and Wooly, I'd never read your response before. While I want the muislings, since the kercpa are out there, and they fit perfectly, I'm thinking 2 separate races works perfectly. Kercpa apparently live longer than these muislings I'm picturing (what I'm looking up says they live 60 years), so the muislings might look upon them amongst their communities as "ancient ones" like humans might view elves. Maybe even the kercpa don't trust the humans but come into the human villages to trade with the muislings.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31636 Posts

Posted - 16 Nov 2018 :  15:14:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Oh,and Wooly, I'd never read your response before.


Must have been tricky responding to it on 25 Nov 2016, then, or coming up with a name based on my suggestion.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


While I want the muislings, since the kercpa are out there, and they fit perfectly, I'm thinking 2 separate races works perfectly. Kercpa apparently live longer than these muislings I'm picturing (what I'm looking up says they live 60 years), so the muislings might look upon them amongst their communities as "ancient ones" like humans might view elves. Maybe even the kercpa don't trust the humans but come into the human villages to trade with the muislings.



I like this idea.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2018 :  11:24:27  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I was so focused on the name idea, I didn't see the other race. I'm thinking with what I'm talking about doing, there's the savannah and then there's the jungle. Kercpa living in the jungle and visiting the savannah makes sense (and it would make the jungle a little less "Africanized"). Muislings living in the savannah wilds and amongst the humans (now), with the muisling populations exploding once they have human protection. There would still also be wild muislings who just don't trust the humans (turns out with good reason), but the domesticated ones just don't want to hear it, and the wild ones would be sparsely populated in the wild and the domesticated ones would outnumber them enormously.

One big picture difference I'm seeing between my muislings and the kercpa is that I can see muislings fitting on even your slightly bigger than average bird (say a parrot, etc..), but at a foot and a half tall, I can't say the same for Kercpa. So, in these human communities, I can see there actually being something like a postal service using bird mounted muislings. There may even be muisling scribes who write in REALLY small lettering (to us), but the colonists typically have magnifying lenses just for the purposes of reading this small lettering.

Oh, and just because I saw it and thought "yes what a great idea".... turtle shell wagons and roofs.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7593 Posts

Posted - 17 Nov 2018 :  13:08:46  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OMG... and now I have a picture of muislings mounted on Tressyms, miniature griffins, and faerie dragons in my head. The cute is tearing my heart up.... I want to see these little things for real....

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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