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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:14:18  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@Shadolan: Hey, you might be onto something there. Following the trend in all of the Drizzt books so far, she's probably bisexual. As DandelionClock pointed out, all women of less than perfect purity of virtue have proclivities towards the same gender, after all.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:17:02  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sooo...Drizzt is kinda Gary Stueish in this book, yes?

But he does not beat Kane to a pulp who begs Drizzt for mercy while marveling on how Drizzt is better than him could ever be while Arty looks all jealous and all chicks including Ambergis are all googly eyed while looking at Drizzt?

Right? ^^;
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:19:59  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan

Sooo...Drizzt is kinda Gary Stueish in this book, yes?

But he does not beat Kane to a pulp who begs Drizzt for mercy while marveling on how Drizzt is better than him could ever be while Arty looks all jealous and all chicks including Ambergis are all googly eyed while looking at Drizzt?

Right? ^^;



KIND OF? :P

You're right. He didn't do all of that. Because this isn't Twilight, at least. Not yet, anyway. :P
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2572 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:20:03  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@sno4wy I get your point of view, but such a change involves too many external factors and isn't actually Bob's choice (I mean, WotC didn't even let him alter the status quo of Menzo, AFAIK).

About being spiteful, what I mean is that, if Bob elevated Drizzt while leaving Eilistraee out of that story, it'd be just the same as being spiteful (for the reasons that I've already pointed out). It'd be like saying that Eilistraee, Ed's own character, that heavily contributes to define the FR drow, is in fact irrelevant.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 25 Oct 2016 20:21:29
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1747 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:20:11  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am kind of kind of hoping this is "the end", because it has to end at some point. The series has been going on for a long time. But if Drizzt DID become a deity (or demipower), I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it -unless-- E and V were continually ignored and he overrode both of them. I wouldn't like that. It would also mean leaving the CotH behind, as pointed out. Plus, Drizzt probably doesn't want to become a god, but if he did, I would hope Drizzt, E and V would become some sort of triad, like Ilmater, Tyr (or was it Helm? lol), and Torm.

But I think it better that the story line is ended (I may or may not feel differently after I read the novel lol).

Sweet water and light laughter
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:25:59  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

@Shadolan: Hey, you might be onto something there. Following the trend in all of the Drizzt books so far, she's probably bisexual. As DandelionClock pointed out, all women of less than perfect purity of virtue have proclivities towards the same gender, after all.



I guess if the books continue then it is only a matter of time till Doum'wielle gets her own girl on girl scene, huh? :)

Maybe with Yvonnel?

And she will attack Jarl violently for stealing her virg...errr I mean Cutter.

Just a prediction lol.
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:41:51  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I see a crack fic in the near future. It could be cathartic.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:46:06  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock

I see a crack fic in the near future. It could be cathartic.




Nothing to fear bro for Dr. Kim and Dr. Arty are there to bring their expertise in fixing any and all issues that crazy bisexual chicks might have :P

Just some brain surgery and a few talking seasons with Dr. Arty and those chicks will be like new! :)

And Doum'wielle will no longer need to keep searching for the biggest/sharpest..."sword".

Edited by - Shadolan on 25 Oct 2016 20:47:49
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:00:34  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seeing them becomes all the rage in the nobler circles of Luskan after Lady Avelyere boasted about her regular sessions - while attending a high society ball wearing a spectacular sparkly dress. Business is thriving until listening to too many tragic childhood tales, and every patient ending up with an infatuation with him, leads to Arty deciding he's going back to his evil ways, grab all their winnings, and stab someone on the way out to drive the point home.
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:09:00  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The thing is, in Hero, Bob is changing what defines FR drow. Here is a quote from the book, one of many, that reflects this:

"She was intrigued by Drizzt. She had seen the same possibilities of a wider and grander philosophy, one based on a love of others as much as, or more than, a love of oneself. Drizzt’s dedication to a greater cause than his own gain did hint at something from which most drow were starved."

It isn't that Drizzt's life and deeds have inspired oppressed male drow in an aggressively matriarchal society, he's also moved the fanatic females that uphold the authority of their society. When the embodiment of the pinnacle of what it means to be a Lolthite in Menzoberranzan actively rejects Lolth, sets out to the surface, and wants to find more meaning in life beyond pleasing herself, well... I'm really not sure what else to say about that.

Edited by - sno4wy on 25 Oct 2016 21:09:28
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:12:16  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock

Seeing them becomes all the rage in the nobler circles of Luskan after Lady Avelyere boasted about her regular sessions - while attending a high society ball wearing a spectacular sparkly dress. Business is thriving until listening to too many tragic childhood tales, and every patient ending up with an infatuation with him, leads to Arty deciding he's going back to his evil ways, grab all their winnings, and stab someone on the way out to drive the point home.



Well, status quo must be kept so Arty will go evil sooner or later :P

Btw there is still the ultimate crazy chick out there :Valindra the lich.

Even Kim couldn't fix her and it was hinted that it would take the power of the Aboletic Sovereignty to heal her.

Just the challenge Arty needs!! Could she be bisexual too? Plus Arty will give ARKLEM the cuckold treatment this time :P

Though such "date" might drive Arty insane too. ^^
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:14:27  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is it still cuckolding if Arklem is dead? I mean, more dead, that is? Or is his soul stuck in a phylactery somewhere still, I can't remember...
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:18:14  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

The thing is, in Hero, Bob is changing what defines FR drow. Here is a quote from the book, one of many, that reflects this:

"She was intrigued by Drizzt. She had seen the same possibilities of a wider and grander philosophy, one based on a love of others as much as, or more than, a love of oneself. Drizzt’s dedication to a greater cause than his own gain did hint at something from which most drow were starved."

It isn't that Drizzt's life and deeds have inspired oppressed male drow in an aggressively matriarchal society, he's also moved the fanatic females that uphold the authority of their society. When the embodiment of the pinnacle of what it means to be a Lolthite in Menzoberranzan actively rejects Lolth, sets out to the surface, and wants to find more meaning in life beyond pleasing herself, well... I'm really not sure what else to say about that.



Don't you worry. Unless RAS decides to make Drizzt less "special"/Gary Stueish then there is no way that more drow will suddenly turn good for real.

It will just be like with Tos'sun. A temporary break and back to baddie business.

Yvonnel will be evil before you can say "Kane doesn't kill. He just allows those whom he had not killed yet to live". Chuck Norris style.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2572 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:20:21  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@sno4wy Ah ok, I see what you meant now. It is cool that Drizzt inspired something like that in someone like Yvonnel, and I'm fine with that, tbh (I'm only surprised that she rejected Lolth). Yvonnel is her own person, tho, or did Drizzt shake the whole foundation of the Lolthite cult?

I would have really liked to see Eilistraee play some role in all of this, especially after LP, but w/e. At least Ed is trying to give her something after LP. I'm curious if the "side-plot" about her appearance in Waterdeep and her followers befriending the city will have any followup.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 25 Oct 2016 21:21:21
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:23:06  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

The thing is, in Hero, Bob is changing what defines FR drow. Here is a quote from the book, one of many, that reflects this:

"She was intrigued by Drizzt. She had seen the same possibilities of a wider and grander philosophy, one based on a love of others as much as, or more than, a love of oneself. Drizzt’s dedication to a greater cause than his own gain did hint at something from which most drow were starved."

It isn't that Drizzt's life and deeds have inspired oppressed male drow in an aggressively matriarchal society, he's also moved the fanatic females that uphold the authority of their society. When the embodiment of the pinnacle of what it means to be a Lolthite in Menzoberranzan actively rejects Lolth, sets out to the surface, and wants to find more meaning in life beyond pleasing herself, well... I'm really not sure what else to say about that.



Yeah, I am still confused by that. I don't know what to make of it. Effectively, this is what convinced me that this is going to be the last FR novel, becuase this doesn't make sense -upending part of the established world *because*- unless they said, "You're the last one out, do what you want with the decoration and don't forget to switch off the light on your way out."

Nothing in regard to Menzo/ Drow society in the last two/ three books was consistent with what we've seen of it during the XX books before, or even in itself, in the sense of an actual, believable development.

Btw, is it weird to see Drizzt described as if he was his people's Ghandi? He wasn't! Until he went back in Maestro, he'd left Drow society behind him. Heroic reputation - yeah. But this? Until he was used as a weapon against Demogorgon in the most underwhelming/ artificial fight scene ever, he didn't fight *for Drow society* at all. And that society didn't exactly come across as having a Perestroika era, either.
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:25:58  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock
Nothing in regard to Menzo/ Drow society in the last two/ three books was consistent with what we've seen of it during the XX books before, or even in itself, in the sense of an actual, believable development.



I would go so far as to say that that extends beyond Menzo/Drow society. The forced and contrived "development" of Artemis, the idiot ball syndrome that Jarlaxle can't shake...
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2572 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:28:04  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wait, so Drizzt actually did upset the foundation of the Lolthite society? He was turned into a champion of all drow, Eilistraee-style, without her even getting mentioned? Eh...

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:29:49  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
...and the epilogue.
The epilogue made me think: There. This is the dark twist. Loth has placed a dark and ironic curse upon Drizzt: No one he loves can ever truly die. The first rounds everyone will think this is splendid. But let a thousand years pass... (omninous music) ....a few more lives lived on repeat, the seemingly spared wife, friend, companion change ever so subtly by their lives overlived... *dramatic change in light* ... and it turns into a twisted horror tale.
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:30:56  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock

...and the epilogue.
The epilogue made me think: There. This is the dark twist. Loth has placed a dark and ironic curse upon Drizzt: No one he loves can ever truly die. The first rounds everyone will think this is splendid. But let a thousand years pass... (omninous music) ....a few more lives lived on repeat, the seemingly spared wife, friend, companion change ever so subtly by their lives overlived... *dramatic change in light* ... and it turns into a twisted horror tale.



Right??

I'm seriously boggling at people who think that the ending set a great precedent for many books to come. I mean, there's a reason that stories end with "Happily Ever After", when the prince and princess kiss.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:34:11  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wonder if Ellistrae will be killed in one of RAS books(if the line continues) or if her existence will be forever ignored altogether.

Btw isn't Yvonnel in love with Drizzt too?
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2572 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:39:20  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan

I wonder if Ellistrae will be killed in one of RAS books(if the line continues) or if her existence will be forever ignored altogether.


She has just managed to return to life... besides, that decision is up to WotC, not RAS. I think that he would rather continue to ignore her and her brother forever. Ed has included news and tidbits about Eilistraee in his latest two books, tho.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:40:33  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan

I wonder if Ellistrae will be killed in one of RAS books(if the line continues) or if her existence will be forever ignored altogether.

Btw isn't Yvonnel in love with Drizzt too?



To not include a character at all is more dismissive than including and killing the character. The latter option requires acknowledgement of the character's existence in the first place.

It certainly seems that Yvonnel is in love with Drizzt as well. Bob's never been good at writing multi-dimensional women. It's always been the case that you can predict whether a female character will live or die based on how beautiful she is. The level of depth to a female character also seems to be associated with whether she's in love with the poster boy.
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:47:59  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking of Dorigen, whose most if not sole redeeming act apparently was loving Cadderly (in whatever way). That means she's good by association, no matter what her past crimes are (she didn't live though). I didn't even dislike the story over it, it just comes to mind.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1747 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:53:22  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since this is the (supposedly) last novel, perhaps the ending is RAS' final way of giving fans (or at least some fans) what they want? Many (admittedly myself included) have been clambering for it, or at least a story about him.

Again, I will have to draw my own conclusions (my copy should be arriving any time now), but I am miffed about Eilistraee being completely ignored. This goes back to my issue with Maestro. Drizzt can be seen as -a- beacon of hope, but to be painted as -the- beacon, whereas Eilistraee, and even Vhaeraun to an extent, have been such for centuries...

Going back to the characters' sexualities, maybe Jarlaxle and Zak had/will have a relationship ;) Actually, I would support that.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  21:54:13  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote

I recall how Yvonnel told Drizzt that she was willing to make Drizzt the king of Menzo if he agreed to love her.

Was she serious?

Wouldn't Lloth take all of her powers away if she tried to bring down the matriarchy and make Drizzt the city's BOSS?

Hmmm...

Edited by - Shadolan on 25 Oct 2016 21:56:26
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