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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1980 Posts

Posted - 24 Oct 2016 :  14:50:47  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ah, I had forgotten Calihye was a half-elf

Sweet water and light laughter
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  03:47:19  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As the novel is coming out tomorrow, I'll just leave this last remark here:

GODDAMNIT IT'S "ASCETICS" NOT "AESTHETICS" AFA:LK:LETKAE:LTJE:LTJALE:TJEL:T but then again, given how the Monastery of the Yellow Rose is apparently really decorated, maybe it really is an order of aesthetics. =_= Whatever happened to these guys having barren walls and the like?
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  04:12:44  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan

Thanks for the answers sno4wy :)

Btw is Entreri's own mental sickness from Maestro brought back here or did he somehow fix it via willpower or something? It would mean that Entreri is more disciplined than Drizzt or just less filled with doubts...

Also, does Entreri help Drizzt on his "healing" quest or does he simply show up against the Big Bad?



Oops, didn't see this one.

Entreri only suffered from the Abyssal Sickness while he was being exposed to the faerzress abnormality down in the Underdark. Yvonnel planted a curse in Drizzt to exacerbate his condition, so Entreri's faded after he was no longer exposed to the source of it, where as Yvonnel's curse sent Drizzt's sickness spiraling.

Entreri does play a part in Drizzt's healing quest. Ironically, or perhaps not so much so, it's Yvonnel's idea for him to do it and her concept on how to do it.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1980 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  04:29:23  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yvonnel seems to be playing both sides, though I got that impression in Maestro, too. So she placed a curse on Drizzt to make him more affected?

Sweet water and light laughter
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Petra_W
Seeker

Germany
24 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  10:30:07  Show Profile Send Petra_W a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems to sell really good. amazon germany doesnt even have the hardcover to pre-order. So i pre-ordered it on amazon uk one week ago. But it is out of stock. Now I cancelled the pre-order, went to ebay and bought it there. Lets hope the seller is reliable. Since I cancelled my amazon-order, otherwise I will have no book at all.
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  13:09:51  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Did anyone else find it gross what they coerced Wulfgar into?
Also weird: how Kimmuriel "fixes" peoples' brains. They all come out more docile, especially the crazy women.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  14:06:51  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock

Did anyone else find it gross what they coerced Wulfgar into?
Also weird: how Kimmuriel "fixes" peoples' brains. They all come out more docile, especially the crazy women.



Crazy women? You mean Dahlia and/or Calihye?

Is it explicitly stated that this is some side effect of Kimmuriel's fixing or they simply seem to act more meek and more submissive than usually?
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  14:15:24  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well - I don't have scientific proof that woulf hold up in court, but yes.
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  14:32:13  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a lot of shit that is not right with this book, that's always been a factor of Bob's writing, but I agree with you about that DandelionClock. Also that whole spiel about how Afafrenfere's blockage to attaining enlightenment was loving a man who didn't deserve his love? Wtf? I mean, I totally buy that loving the wrong person could often be very self-destructive, but it isn't explicitly stated with anyone except the first and only openly non-heterosexual character in Bob's book. Given his long history with fetishizing lesbians, and now this, color me extremely disapproving.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  14:32:19  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock

Well - I don't have scientific proof that woulf hold up in court, but yes.



Well Dahlia did go through some severe trauma(I think Calihye likely too) which caused her to be constantly angry(kinda like Entreri) and hold hatred towards both the world and herself.

Maybe this "fixing" just caused her to forgive for everything and get over the anger that was burning within her?

Which would make the calmer and more submissive personalities the original ones before the trauma?

Still, it would be hilarious to see ex femme fatale Dahlia making cookies for Arty while acting lovey dovey lol.

Edited by - Shadolan on 25 Oct 2016 14:43:26
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  14:37:46  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

There's a lot of shit that is not right with this book, that's always been a factor of Bob's writing, but I agree with you about that DandelionClock. Also that whole spiel about how Afafrenfere's blockage to attaining enlightenment was loving a man who didn't deserve his love? Wtf? I mean, I totally buy that loving the wrong person could often be very self-destructive, but it isn't explicitly stated with anyone except the first and only openly non-heterosexual character in Bob's book. Given his long history with fetishizing lesbians, and now this, color me extremely disapproving.



I think Afafrenefere might be Bi rather than homosexual. I recall how he seemed a bit bewitched by Tazmikella's beauty when she used her human/elf form.

Also were there any actual lesbians in RAS books? Calihye was bi as was Dahlia. Maybe Parissus(Calihye's female lover) was a lesbian.

As for Parbid he was given very little characterization but Ambergis seemed to imply that all folks in their old group were quite awful and she only saw Afafrenfere as the only decent one in the bunch which is why she chose to spare his life.

At least Kimmuriel did not "fix" Afarenfere's sexual preferences by suddenly making him see that he was never into males but females. Or did he? I'm still waiting for my book to arrive.

Edited by - Shadolan on 25 Oct 2016 14:40:10
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  14:48:42  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To use real-world analogies for what Kimmuriel is and isn't capable of (which is as much stated in the books), he's a super perfect brain surgeon, but not at all a therapist. His treatment of Dahlia is so successful because, as he explicitly explains, her brain was actively messed up by Methil, and all he had to do is find all of the stuff that Methil messed up and undo them. Drizzt's condition was different, just as Dahlia's traumas that led to her anger are different, from a bunch of messed up structures imposed by an external force. Kimmuriel said that he couldn't fix Drizzt because the change had to come from within, and that should be the same case for Dahlia as well. If Kimmuriel did, in fact, "fix" all of Dahlia's troubles, then there's no reason why he couldn't have done the same for Drizzt. I'd like to think that even Bob's trademark inconsistencies aren't *that* bad.

Calihye was never as angry as Entreri or Dahlia. We know nothing about her past, and as far as we do know, the most traumatizing thing for her was the death of her dear friend (and possible lover) Parissus. Once she was able to move on from that, and since what also caused her a lot of stress was not being able to choose between leaving with Artemis or staying in the Bloodstone Lands was a matter that was solved for her by Kimmuriel taking her away, there wasn't much left for her to be bitter about.

Afafrenfere's exact sexual orientation doesn't really matter to my point. The fact that he is definitively attracted to other men, however, does, and that is true whether he's gay, bi, pan, demi, whatever. The fact that the women weren't lesbian also doesn't matter, as by "fetishizing lesbians" I mean that Bob fetishizes women-women romantic/sexual interactions. We see a lot of female/female sex, that, some of which are downright unnecessary, whereas the only mention of anything male/male are cast in extremely negative lights.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  15:10:20  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

To use real-world analogies for what Kimmuriel is and isn't capable of (which is as much stated in the books), he's a super perfect brain surgeon, but not at all a therapist. His treatment of Dahlia is so successful because, as he explicitly explains, her brain was actively messed up by Methil, and all he had to do is find all of the stuff that Methil messed up and undo them. Drizzt's condition was different, just as Dahlia's traumas that led to her anger are different, from a bunch of messed up structures imposed by an external force. Kimmuriel said that he couldn't fix Drizzt because the change had to come from within, and that should be the same case for Dahlia as well. If Kimmuriel did, in fact, "fix" all of Dahlia's troubles, then there's no reason why he couldn't have done the same for Drizzt. I'd like to think that even Bob's trademark inconsistencies aren't *that* bad.

Calihye was never as angry as Entreri or Dahlia. We know nothing about her past, and as far as we do know, the most traumatizing thing for her was the death of her dear friend (and possible lover) Parissus. Once she was able to move on from that, and since what also caused her a lot of stress was not being able to choose between leaving with Artemis or staying in the Bloodstone Lands was a matter that was solved for her by Kimmuriel taking her away, there wasn't much left for her to be bitter about.

Afafrenfere's exact sexual orientation doesn't really matter to my point. The fact that he is definitively attracted to other men, however, does, and that is true whether he's gay, bi, pan, demi, whatever. The fact that the women weren't lesbian also doesn't matter, as by "fetishizing lesbians" I mean that Bob fetishizes women-women romantic/sexual interactions. We see a lot of female/female sex, that, some of which are downright unnecessary, whereas the only mention of anything male/male are cast in extremely negative lights.



Wasn't Drizzt problem also the curse that Yvonnel put upon him? Also Drizzt always was full of doubts whether it came to elements of his relationship with Catti or how to deal with bad guys...or even with his own place in the world. Dahlia was angry mostly due to Alegni's shadow and later Drizzt choosing a "ghost" over her. With Alegni dead and Dahlia apparently loving Arty more than she loved Drizzt both of her biggest issues would be gone. She might still be jealous or have nightmares but won't act so ruthless and be so moody perhaps...

I think it was mentioned in Road of the Patriarch that Calihye was also holding some demons inside which was why she choose not to remove the scar from her face in the first place. She used the scar to hide herself or something like that.

As for lesbian chicks fetish I don't recall any sex scenes between women. Neither between Calihye/Parissus nor Dahlia/other chick. Do you remember some other examples?

Besides the relationship between Calihye and Parissus was not particularly detailed so I dunno if it was portrayed so positively and Dahlia killed her female lovers without mercy.

IMO a bigger problems was so much rape lately(especially when it happened to Dahlia mostly). Guess it was to make the dark elves seem as mean as possible and to make Tiago's death extra satisfying?

Edited by - Shadolan on 25 Oct 2016 15:15:29
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  15:29:08  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Really? You don't remember any of the sex scenes between women? O_o I'm sincerely very surprised, sorry if my tone seems condescending, it isn't, it's just 100% shock. For instance: that threesome with two women and one guy during the Neverwinter Saga, I believe it was Arunika, a Shadovar commander whose name escapes me, and her servant that became the guy wrapped in Umberhulk skin. The priestesses of Lolth having sex with a Handmaiden in drow form. Jarlaxle's threesome with two women, which carried on having sex after he'd left the bed. In this most recent book, Malcanthet seduces the princess of Helgabal and has sex with her in the queen's own bed. Those are just a handful of examples, ones that I list off the top of my head. There definitely aren't any about sexual encounters between two men, barely any mention of romantic encounters until with Afafrenfere.

I agree with the rape problem. However, I don't know that overusing it is a bigger problem with the way that Bob represents anything non-heterosexual involving men. The two are both very bad.

I don't agree with the psychoanalysis part, but I'm not sure how much it'd be worth debating. Regardless of how their psychologies developed, it shouldn't have happened that fast, and Kimmuriel most certainly wouldn't have been able to "fix" any part of it.

Edited by - sno4wy on 25 Oct 2016 15:30:27
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
791 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  15:45:10  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just get annoyed with Kimmuriel as Deus Ex Machina all the time. He started as a psionic that was great at kinetic barriers and teleportation--but could also speak with telepathy to put him apart from regular mages. Somehow he is a master of everything mind related and making people forget things. I suppose he had 100 years of work with the mind flayers to bone up his skillset.

I did an lol when Kane drop kicked the Lolth handmaiden. I know Kane is just like a demigod but it strikes me as odd to think of a man drop kicking a blob of wax and having it take affect. I am so over Kane and don't understand why he was brought back here other than Bob has a hard on for monks and wanted a way to bring back Kane for the "last" Drizzt book? It felt out of place to me.
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  15:46:05  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

Really? You don't remember any of the sex scenes between women? O_o I'm sincerely very surprised, sorry if my tone seems condescending, it isn't, it's just 100% shock. For instance: that threesome with two women and one guy during the Neverwinter Saga, I believe it was Arunika, a Shadovar commander whose name escapes me, and her servant that became the guy wrapped in Umberhulk skin. The priestesses of Lolth having sex with a Handmaiden in drow form. Jarlaxle's threesome with two women, which carried on having sex after he'd left the bed. In this most recent book, Malcanthet seduces the princess of Helgabal and has sex with her in the queen's own bed. Those are just a handful of examples, ones that I list off the top of my head. There definitely aren't any about sexual encounters between two men, barely any mention of romantic encounters until with Afafrenfere.

I agree with the rape problem. However, I don't know that overusing it is a bigger problem with the way that Bob represents anything non-heterosexual involving men. The two are both very bad.

I don't agree with the psychoanalysis part, but I'm not sure how much it'd be worth debating. Regardless of how their psychologies developed, it shouldn't have happened that fast, and Kimmuriel most certainly wouldn't have been able to "fix" any part of it.



Wow, that seems to be a fair amount. I really hardly noticed that stuff. I don't care all that much about fan service. I did find regular interactions between characters more interesting.

I guess RAS simply chose to give more girl on girl material than man on man because the former is often considered more "hot". At least to the male heterosexual readers that is. Probably RAS thought that men on men scenes would be less welcomed.

It would be easier to just greatly diminish the amount of sex fanservice then so that it wouldn't look as if the writer tries to appeal to the most base "interests" of a specific group of readers lol.

So Dahlia does not show any signs of trauma at all now? And if she doesn't could it be simply due to her not having much "page time" in the book?
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DandelionClock
Seeker

67 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  19:26:38  Show Profile Send DandelionClock a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Page time does surely play a role. I mean, her son gets two half sentence mentions and that was an integral part of her storyline once. (Did I overread in my haste how she learnt he was still alive?)

It looks like it was dropped along with Effron* for something more problematic, aka - crazy evil chick, lots of rape happens to her until we can all feel sorry for her, redemption after that - with some deus ex machina thrown in. That also makes the fact so icky that she was fixed by Kimmuruel, who also took advantage of her - basically her character development from back story to humbled mellowed end was men forcing themselves upon her. Unneccessary.

Instead of developing herself as a character, she gets this (victim role) and then gets fixed by one of the guys who abused her (apparently the scene wasn't supposed to be read that way, but it really wasn't ambigious anyways - Kimmuriel finds her out of her mind, then actively puts her into a dream/ trip state in which she mistakes him for Drizzt - that isn't her as the "aggressor" and him just letting it happen. That's like being left alone with a defenseless mental patient, giving them LSD, and then having sex with them knowing they won't remember).

Sorry if I am repeating myself, but these bits/ decisions really stayed a thorn in my side, reading wise.

Then you see the similarities to Cali - "crazy, haunted, bi" woman gets thrown out after trying to harm her lover - then gets her brain fixed by Kimmuriel - gets back to Entreri for a more mellow encounter. I forgot if the question was answered why she would be so emotionally cruel as to have him believe she was kidnapped and ended up god knows where. I mean, that would be a horrible and repulsive thing to do to your ex even if it was resolved the next day, instead of just saying, here, this won't work out, but I am glad we could make amends and end it on better terms. Someone help me out there, because that is worse than just staying away from the guy in my opinion.

Now, after what sno4wy posted, can someone point me to a goodly aligned woman in the books that is bi or lesbian - or does it always go hand in hand with moral ambivalence? Hm. Again, someone help me out there.

Btw, a third crazy chick is still out there after having been abused by the same baddies, sexually, too, hence rendering it all as "to show how bad he is" even more unnecessary because Doum'wielle already served that purpose, which is cheap enough - writing that kind of thing it just to make you a) sorry for murderous women and b) hate the men who do this to them (but only if they do it a certain way).

PS: Wulfgar. Was that necessary? Like I said, "Sleep with her to avoid a war... no pressure..." - here, you may want to reverse the gernders if you don't already see it... and everyone chuckles afterwards.

PPS: I loved the idea of everyone staying kind of connected in the end. But is it really a given that the host tower will be a source of stability when influenced by people/ parties with so wildly conflicting moral alignments?

*Was anyone -Amber, Afafrenfere- informed or rightfully miffed when they learnt Jarlaxle knew all this time where their lost companion was all these years (3 I think)?
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  19:28:37  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadolan
I guess RAS simply chose to give more girl on girl material than man on man because the former is often considered more "hot". At least to the male heterosexual readers that is. Probably RAS thought that men on men scenes would be less welcomed.



This is exactly what I mean by the fetishization of lesbianism, or, more accurately, of female/female "action".
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  19:31:55  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I just get annoyed with Kimmuriel as Deus Ex Machina all the time. He started as a psionic that was great at kinetic barriers and teleportation--but could also speak with telepathy to put him apart from regular mages. Somehow he is a master of everything mind related and making people forget things. I suppose he had 100 years of work with the mind flayers to bone up his skillset.

I did an lol when Kane drop kicked the Lolth handmaiden. I know Kane is just like a demigod but it strikes me as odd to think of a man drop kicking a blob of wax and having it take affect. I am so over Kane and don't understand why he was brought back here other than Bob has a hard on for monks and wanted a way to bring back Kane for the "last" Drizzt book? It felt out of place to me.



I agree with you regarding Kimmuriel. I also have a perspective for Kane's purpose in the book, although I suspect that it'll only make you more done with him. ;P

Kane helps Drizzt achieve ascension like he himself has. Technically speaking, in terms of D&D anyway, isn't it the case that ascension is a viable, albeit difficult, path for a character to follow, and if they're successful, they can then choose to become a Divine Being or a God as a prestige class?

I mean, we've all known that Bob's refusal to acknowledge Eilistraee all this time is because she, what she embodies, and what her followers are, take away from the special snowflakeness that is Drizzt. What if it's actually greater than that, that there can't be another goodly drow diety, because Bob's plan had been to install his poster boy to be one all along? I mean, Drizzt certainly is on the path to become one now. :P
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1980 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  19:35:03  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not that I would object to another goodly drow deity, but...that would mean Drizzt would have to undergo apotheosis, like Shevarash did. I don't know if that necessarily requires death or not. If Drizzt actually worked with Eilistraee, as Vhaeraun is now doing it, I wouldn't be opposed, but if he overrides them and they continue to be ignored, then I may have issues lol.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2687 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  19:38:06  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can't become a god in the Realms unless Ao elevates you. I remember the rule you're talking about, it was a 4e thing, but the best that you could achieve was becoming a demipower. And a demipower can coexist with a deity in their own pantheon, even while having the same portfolio. That said, even if Drizzt was somehow elevated to Greater Power by Ao, unless Bob gave him the exact same portfolio as Eilistraee, both of them would be able to coexist (they should be allies, by all logic, tbh. And their concepts are not even the same, as Drizzt doesn't play the role of "mothering" the whole drow, nor I picture him using Eilistraee's way to lead the drow to choose a different path--which basically consists of making them rediscover all the beauty and joy in life that they have forgotten).

Although I really don't see Drizzt, who is becoming more and more detached from the gods, choosing to become one.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 25 Oct 2016 19:42:19
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  19:54:18  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Irennan, you're underestimating the inconsistencies that have become worse and worse with each passing novel. I think that if the Drizzt line isn't ending here, that Drizzt becoming a god is likely, as that would make the screaming hail Bob as the greatest writer of all time. ;P
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Shadolan
Seeker

29 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:04:22  Show Profile Send Shadolan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

quote:






I agree with you regarding Kimmuriel. I also have a perspective for Kane's purpose in the book, although I suspect that it'll only make you more done with him. ;P

Kane helps Drizzt achieve ascension like he himself has. Technically speaking, in terms of D&D anyway, isn't it the case that ascension is a viable, albeit difficult, path for a character to follow, and if they're successful, they can then choose to become a Divine Being or a God as a prestige class?

I mean, we've all known that Bob's refusal to acknowledge Eilistraee all this time is because she, what she embodies, and what her followers are, take away from the special snowflakeness that is Drizzt. What if it's actually greater than that, that there can't be another goodly drow diety, because Bob's plan had been to install his poster boy to be one all along? I mean, Drizzt certainly is on the path to become one now. :P



Is it shown that Drizzt gains anything by achieving such enlightenment or does it only help him overcoming his mental issues?

If it does make him stronger then I wonder if RAS wants to make him the strongest swordsman around. I hoped that Arty would remain his equal or maybe even end up slightly stronger to prove that caring about others and no longer being emotionally close can be a good source of motivation to get stronger.

Anyway, does RAS bring the matter of Drizzt possibly being a Chosen or is it sealed that he is only the Chosen of whatever is in his heart?


quote:
Originally posted by DandelionClock

Page time does surely play a role. I mean, her son gets two half sentence mentions and that was an integral part of her storyline once. (Did I overread in my haste how she learnt he was still alive?)

It looks like it was dropped along with Effron* for something more problematic, aka - crazy evil chick, lots of rape happens to her until we can all feel sorry for her, redemption after that - with some deus ex machina thrown in. That also makes the fact so icky that she was fixed by Kimmuruel, who also took advantage of her - basically her character development from back story to humbled mellowed end was men forcing themselves upon her. Unneccessary.

Instead of developing herself as a character, she gets this (victim role) and then gets fixed by one of the guys who abused her (apparently the scene wasn't supposed to be read that way, but it really wasn't ambigious anyways - Kimmuriel finds her out of her mind, then actively puts her into a dream/ trip state in which she mistakes him for Drizzt - that isn't her as the "aggressor" and him just letting it happen. That's like being left alone with a defenseless mental patient, giving them LSD, and then having sex with them knowing they won't remember).

Sorry if I am repeating myself, but these bits/ decisions really stayed a thorn in my side, reading wise.

Then you see the similarities to Cali - "crazy, haunted, bi" woman gets thrown out after trying to harm her lover - then gets her brain fixed by Kimmuriel - gets back to Entreri for a more mellow encounter. I forgot if the question was answered why she would be so emotionally cruel as to have him believe she was kidnapped and ended up god knows where. I mean, that would be a horrible and repulsive thing to do to your ex even if it was resolved the next day, instead of just saying, here, this won't work out, but I am glad we could make amends and end it on better terms. Someone help me out there, because that is worse than just staying away from the guy in my opinion.

Now, after what sno4wy posted, can someone point me to a goodly aligned woman in the books that is bi or lesbian - or does it always go hand in hand with moral ambivalence? Hm. Again, someone help me out there.

Btw, a third crazy chick is still out there after having been abused by the same baddies, sexually, too, hence rendering it all as "to show how bad he is" even more unnecessary because Doum'wielle already served that purpose, which is cheap enough - writing that kind of thing it just to make you a) sorry for murderous women and b) hate the men who do this to them (but only if they do it a certain way).

PS: Wulfgar. Was that necessary? Like I said, "Sleep with her to avoid a war... no pressure..." - here, you may want to reverse the gernders if you don't already see it... and everyone chuckles afterwards.

PPS: I loved the idea of everyone staying kind of connected in the end. But is it really a given that the host tower will be a source of stability when influenced by people/ parties with so wildly conflicting moral alignments?

*Was anyone -Amber, Afafrenfere- informed or rightfully miffed when they learnt Jarlaxle knew all this time where their lost companion was all these years (3 I think)?



LOOL, I wonder if Doum'wielle is actually bisexual too. Maybe she will also fall in love with Arty who by that time will become a full fledged psychiatrist.

Edited by - Shadolan on 25 Oct 2016 20:07:52
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2687 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:05:14  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy

Irennan, you're underestimating the inconsistencies that have become worse and worse with each passing novel. I think that if the Drizzt line isn't ending here, that Drizzt becoming a god is likely, as that would make the screaming hail Bob as the greatest writer of all time. ;P



If Drizzt becomes a god, and RAS doesn't even involve Eilistraee in the whole thing--she would obviously help him, and be happy to have such an ally--then that would be flat out disrespectful. Eilistraee doesn't diminish Drizzt's character. He has still overcome all his challenges, he still has his whole story and all that he conquered. OTOH Eilistraee adds depth to the drow as a whole: in my eyes drow like her and her followers make Drizzt more beliavable, because if he's the only drow who has ever managed to choose good or to get free from Lolth in over 10 millennia, then that just doesn't make sense. It makes his choices come from a birth "flaw", not due to his values or intelligence. I really can't picture RAS being a spiteful person and going out of his way to throw even more crap on Eilistraee than LP already did.

Besides, I remeber RAS writing about how he was happy with his story at this point, and how putting the word "END" to it felt, so I doubt that he'd try to make a god out of Drizzt. He'd also have to leave his companions and Catti behind, he'd have to embrace something that he doesn't believe in. As I said, unless RAS truly wanted to be spiteful, there'd be no reason for that. WotC also needs to approve it, and if Drizzt becomes a god, then they will effectively no longer be able to use him in any story or whatever, which I don't see them accepting.

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Edited by - Irennan on 25 Oct 2016 20:07:01
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sno4wy
Learned Scribe

USA
277 Posts

Posted - 25 Oct 2016 :  20:13:22  Show Profile Send sno4wy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It isn't a matter of Bob being spiteful, but the entirety of Hero reads like one giant ego-stroke (that also does a fair amount of putting down alternates to social-normative definitions of "good" and "natural"), that boosting his poster boy to illogical means wouldn't be an inconsistent path to follow. But then again, I'm trying to extrapolate based on patterns set in a series of books that have become extremely inconsistent not only with the greater setting but also with themselves, so I suppose that's an inherent tension.
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