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Lamora
Seeker

USA
73 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2016 :  00:31:12  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
So the last Farideh book came out today. I plan to buy the kindle sometime soon. Anyone already started it?

Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

487 Posts

Posted - 05 Oct 2016 :  06:48:36  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Finished it.
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Petra_W
Seeker

Germany
28 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  11:04:55  Show Profile Send Petra_W a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Didnt know it is her last book. We have very few D&D writers now. Does she start a new series then or stop to write for WotC?

I dont like that. Dennig was cancelled, if Evans is gone too, we just have greenwood and salvatore. To write their "high fantasy overpowered chosen" novels.
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Madpig
Learned Scribe

Finland
131 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  11:24:00  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Petra_W

Didnt know it is her last book. We have very few D&D writers now. Does she start a new series then or stop to write for WotC?

I dont like that. Dennig was cancelled, if Evans is gone too, we just have greenwood and salvatore. To write their "high fantasy overpowered chosen" novels.



Keep in mind that Salvatore has quite clearly stated that Hero is end of Drizzt's story. So no more that also.
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Petra_W
Seeker

Germany
28 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  15:02:14  Show Profile Send Petra_W a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
Keep in mind that Salvatore has quite clearly stated that Hero is end of Drizzt's story. So no more that also.



"Quite Clearly"?
Do you have a quote for this?

As I interstood, it is an end of this drizzt story. Maybe he is the next years writing a SpinnOff, like the jarlaxle books without drizzt, and returning later on his main character.


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Schreckstoff
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  17:00:46  Show Profile Send Schreckstoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Damn had I known it's the last one I wouldn't have blasted through it so fast.

Awesome book, awesome ending, didn't like a particular swift conclusion and never ended up liking Brin but my ship from book 1 worked out so hurray.

Now I have to reread them every now and then to get my Farideh fix.

Also don't scare me with Drizzt.

Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check

Edited by - Schreckstoff on 06 Oct 2016 17:01:23
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Lamora
Seeker

USA
73 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  18:13:17  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Salvatore, as far as I am aware of, does not have a contract for any more Drizzt books at this time. There is a lot of speculation right now that the Realms novels are coming to an end. This book might very well be the 2nd to last Realms book to ever come out. I have not heard anything about another Greenwood book yet, so Hero might very well be the last book and it will come out in a few weeks.
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

487 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  19:24:16  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Petra_W

quote:
Originally posted by Madpig
Keep in mind that Salvatore has quite clearly stated that Hero is end of Drizzt's story. So no more that also.



"Quite Clearly"?
Do you have a quote for this?

As I interstood, it is an end of this drizzt story. Maybe he is the next years writing a SpinnOff, like the jarlaxle books without drizzt, and returning later on his main character.







This is the last Drizzt book period. I think the writing has been clearly headed in the direction of wrapping up the series. Yeah, Jarlaxle has billions of adventures, and RAS could always write 10 more books about him, but we haven't received the slightest indication that he intends to do that. The Jarlaxle and Zaknafein book has been hinted at for years, yet he's announced no plans to write that.
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

487 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  19:30:35  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Petra_W

Didnt know it is her last book. We have very few D&D writers now. Does she start a new series then or stop to write for WotC?

I dont like that. Dennig was cancelled, if Evans is gone too, we just have greenwood and salvatore. To write their "high fantasy overpowered chosen" novels.




If it weren't for those books selling as well as they do, we never would have gotten the other novels in recent years. Erin Evans already said that we were very close to not getting The Devil You Know anyway. WOTC doesn't see the novel line as being profitable enough to continue, from what I've seen. Paul Kemp already said they aren't paying a reasonable market rate to their authors, so this has been a long time coming.

Also, how many novels do you expect RAS to write without getting to a point where his characters are epic level? Farideh would be overpowered too if Erin Evans had 20 more books to make her level up. Erevis Cale was more powerful by the end of his seventh book than any character from the Legend of Drizzt. The power of all his characters has been a logical progression (except Catti Brie). If all his characters were still 12th level after decades of writing, everybody would be complaining. And for all their power, they still all got captured in Menzo anyway.
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1741 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  20:21:18  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lamora

Salvatore, as far as I am aware of, does not have a contract for any more Drizzt books at this time. There is a lot of speculation right now that the Realms novels are coming to an end. This book might very well be the 2nd to last Realms book to ever come out. I have not heard anything about another Greenwood book yet, so Hero might very well be the last book and it will come out in a few weeks.



I doubt it... since wizards is contractually obligated to keep publishing Ed or the rights for the Realms go back to him - just like the deal he had with TSR.
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

487 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  22:36:46  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Lamora

Salvatore, as far as I am aware of, does not have a contract for any more Drizzt books at this time. There is a lot of speculation right now that the Realms novels are coming to an end. This book might very well be the 2nd to last Realms book to ever come out. I have not heard anything about another Greenwood book yet, so Hero might very well be the last book and it will come out in a few weeks.



I doubt it... since wizards is contractually obligated to keep publishing Ed or the rights for the Realms go back to him - just like the deal he had with TSR.



True, but I would be curious of the fine print in that contract. They may not necessarily be obligated to publish any more novels for Ed. WOTC may publish 1 Ed article every few months, or publish 1 adventure from him every year, and that may be sufficient to satisfy the agreement.
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Schreckstoff
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  22:55:40  Show Profile Send Schreckstoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So is this a spoiler thread? Cause I kind of felt the conclusion was a bit rushed which makes some sense if the book wasn't sure to even be published before. It just ties up to well for such a long buildup.

Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4336 Posts

Posted - 06 Oct 2016 :  23:11:11  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

quote:
Originally posted by Lamora

Salvatore, as far as I am aware of, does not have a contract for any more Drizzt books at this time. There is a lot of speculation right now that the Realms novels are coming to an end. This book might very well be the 2nd to last Realms book to ever come out. I have not heard anything about another Greenwood book yet, so Hero might very well be the last book and it will come out in a few weeks.



I doubt it... since wizards is contractually obligated to keep publishing Ed or the rights for the Realms go back to him - just like the deal he had with TSR.



True, but I would be curious of the fine print in that contract. They may not necessarily be obligated to publish any more novels for Ed. WOTC may publish 1 Ed article every few months, or publish 1 adventure from him every year, and that may be sufficient to satisfy the agreement.



As far as has been said, the contract requires one novel a year or Ed agree for compensation not to write a novel for a year. Of course we do not have the contact just a few comments about it as to reversion rights.

From what I have read the company has three options.
1)Publish one novel each year by Ed.
2)Reach a compensated agreement with Ed to waive the writing of a novel at an agreed compensation.
3) Rights to FR reverts back to Ed.

Under these conditions, there clearly is no assurance of a novel once a year being published, that leave open possible ways that rights will not revert to Ed.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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Petra_W
Seeker

Germany
28 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2016 :  08:35:50  Show Profile Send Petra_W a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

quote:
Originally posted by Petra_W

Didnt know it is her last book. We have very few D&D writers now. Does she start a new series then or stop to write for WotC?

I dont like that. Dennig was cancelled, if Evans is gone too, we just have greenwood and salvatore. To write their "high fantasy overpowered chosen" novels.




If it weren't for those books selling as well as they do, we never would have gotten the other novels in recent years. Erin Evans already said that we were very close to not getting The Devil You Know anyway. WOTC doesn't see the novel line as being profitable enough to continue, from what I've seen. Paul Kemp already said they aren't paying a reasonable market rate to their authors, so this has been a long time coming.

Also, how many novels do you expect RAS to write without getting to a point where his characters are epic level? Farideh would be overpowered too if Erin Evans had 20 more books to make her level up. Erevis Cale was more powerful by the end of his seventh book than any character from the Legend of Drizzt. The power of all his characters has been a logical progression (except Catti Brie). If all his characters were still 12th level after decades of writing, everybody would be complaining. And for all their power, they still all got captured in Menzo anyway.




Since these are novels and no P&P-Adventures, I dont see any XP and leveling in them at all. That is a big D&D thing I dont unterstand. Why cant it just be like in the witcher series.
Books --> protagonist dont level up in all this years
Games --> protagonist gets XP for every Quest and Kill and levels up
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Madpig
Learned Scribe

Finland
131 Posts

Posted - 07 Oct 2016 :  10:55:21  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Schreckstoff

So is this a spoiler thread? Cause I kind of felt the conclusion was a bit rushed which makes some sense if the book wasn't sure to even be published before. It just ties up to well for such a long buildup.



This is exactly the same that happened with Godborn. That was supposed to be trilogy, so it felt really rushed. It was still AWESOME book, as is everything by Kemp.

Sidenote, I think Wizbro has really foolproof contract for FR now, because they are making a MOVIE out of FR. So there is no way in Abyss that they would revert rights to Ed at this point.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1271 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  03:44:11  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the conclusion felt rushed, it was through not fault of Erin M. Evan, but rather corporate politics.

I mean okay it didn't make as much as they would have liked, but to shut down a profitable enduever because it wasn't profit enough is like starving yourself, because can merely have three healthy meals aday instead of a glorious feast three times a day!

Now they make no profits at all from the novels. Stupid corporate politics.

Anyway this was at least a triumphant end to the Brimstone Angels Saga.

I want to chew on my thoughts, I just finished the book, before I do a spoilery review of it.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2827 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  03:52:22  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig

Sidenote, I think Wizbro has really foolproof contract for FR now, because they are making a MOVIE out of FR. So there is no way in Abyss that they would revert rights to Ed at this point.



As far as I know, as long as Ed is involved/writes 1 FR product per year, the clause is respected. Novels aren't needed.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30976 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  04:03:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Madpig

quote:
Originally posted by Schreckstoff

So is this a spoiler thread? Cause I kind of felt the conclusion was a bit rushed which makes some sense if the book wasn't sure to even be published before. It just ties up to well for such a long buildup.



This is exactly the same that happened with Godborn. That was supposed to be trilogy, so it felt really rushed. It was still AWESOME book, as is everything by Kemp.

Sidenote, I think Wizbro has really foolproof contract for FR now, because they are making a MOVIE out of FR. So there is no way in Abyss that they would revert rights to Ed at this point.



They can't unilaterally change the terms of a contract. The more likely conclusion is that they're going to keep at least a trickle of novels coming out, so there are no legal issues.

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Schreckstoff
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  04:44:00  Show Profile Send Schreckstoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

If the conclusion felt rushed, it was through not fault of Erin M. Evan, but rather corporate politics.

I mean okay it didn't make as much as they would have liked, but to shut down a profitable enduever because it wasn't profit enough is like starving yourself, because can merely have three healthy meals aday instead of a glorious feast three times a day!

Now they make no profits at all from the novels. Stupid corporate politics.

Anyway this was at least a triumphant end to the Brimstone Angels Saga.

I want to chew on my thoughts, I just finished the book, before I do a spoilery review of it.




Definitely. At best you could say it didn't pick up the pace quickly and or soon enough. I would say there was a bit too much time spend on the Dragonborn city and Gilgeam the Son of Victory. For all its posturing we got like 2 pages of the actual battle but those are pitfalls of having been introduced in the prior book though.

Another point is Farideh being so conflicted w/r/t Lorcan for so long when she clearly voiced her choice long ago and then dropping Lorcan within a second. OTOH that gave Lorcan room to show his growth and while it came out of left field I liked when he pleaded to Dahl not to make Farideh break the pact.

Sairché's conclusion was also godly, didn't expect her to ever realize her position and bargain as such for her only chance in redemption.

Havilar once again has pulled too much a deus ex machina, she just finds easy solutions to problems that are too important to the plot. Farideh spends weeks trying to beat Bryseis with literally godly resources yet Havi just ends up taking her body back nonchalantly and anticlimactic.

I wish Selune had been more involved, always had hoped Farideh would end up converting to her faith. But at least Tam made an appearance again.

Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1271 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  04:52:45  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not sure what faith Farideh is, but like much of the realms, I believe she has no problem praying to whatever God she needs to, Selune, Enlil, Torm, yet maybe Asmodeaus once in a while.

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Schreckstoff
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  05:09:18  Show Profile Send Schreckstoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pretty sure she'd end up before Kelemvor as a faithless if her soul wasn't claimed no one came to offer her haven when she was dead after all.

Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check

Edited by - Schreckstoff on 08 Oct 2016 05:26:01
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

487 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  05:16:27  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Schreckstoff

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

If the conclusion felt rushed, it was through not fault of Erin M. Evan, but rather corporate politics.

I mean okay it didn't make as much as they would have liked, but to shut down a profitable enduever because it wasn't profit enough is like starving yourself, because can merely have three healthy meals aday instead of a glorious feast three times a day!

Now they make no profits at all from the novels. Stupid corporate politics.

Anyway this was at least a triumphant end to the Brimstone Angels Saga.

I want to chew on my thoughts, I just finished the book, before I do a spoilery review of it.




Definitely. At best you could say it didn't pick up the pace quickly and or soon enough. I would say there was a bit too much time spend on the Dragonborn city and Gilgeam the Son of Victory. For all its posturing we got like 2 pages of the actual battle but those are pitfalls of having been introduced in the prior book though.

Another point is Farideh being so conflicted w/r/t Lorcan for so long when she clearly voiced her choice long ago and then dropping Lorcan within a second. OTOH that gave Lorcan room to show his growth and while it came out of left field I liked when he pleaded to Dahl not to make Farideh break the pact.

Sairché's conclusion was also godly, didn't expect her to ever realize her position and bargain as such for her only chance in redemption.

Havilar once again has pulled too much a deus ex machina, she just finds easy solutions to problems that are too important to the plot. Farideh spends weeks trying to beat Bryseis with literally godly resources yet Havi just ends up taking her body back nonchalantly and anticlimactic.

I wish Selune had been more involved, always had hoped Farideh would end up converting to her faith. But at least Tam made an appearance again.




I really enjoyed the focus on Tymanther. Maybe 2 other FR books used lone dragonborn who were adventuring elsewhere. Only she really explored the culture of the dragonborn and their daily lives. There wasn't much point to 4e introducing a new race and then ignoring them (you know, like the transformed "dark elves").

I also loved that Erin gave Selune some attention, and made one of Selune's priests an important character. Selune gets completely ignored by FR. In the 4e and 5e (Sundering) novels, we saw champions of so many gods thwart Shar's plans: Mystra, Lathander, Helm, Mask, Siamorphe, Sune, and Cyric. Seriously, the novels make it seem like Selune doesn't even care that is coming very close to ending the world every few years.
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Schreckstoff
Seeker

53 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  05:36:06  Show Profile Send Schreckstoff a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't remind me of the Brown Elves, can't believe that was just never followed up.
We also never learned just how Quentel dethroned her sister but we know that at least Lolth taking her new form did happen.

I hate when canon is in limbo with parts acknowledged and parts ignored.

Complete Drizzt Saga - Check
In love with Farideh's Saga - Check
Disappointed at Erevis' Saga's apparent end - Check
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1271 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  05:40:32  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spoilers below.

I originally though Dumuzi was Enlil's incarnation, but he's just a Chosen, about a massively powerful one, at least Elminster's equal.

What Son of Victory is exactly is a mystery. Is he an Avatar, a Demigod, and Incarnation, an imposter who somehow stole part of Gilgeam's power?

My speculation is alittle bit of all of the above. I think the Son of Victory found Gilgeam's sputtering divine spark, which ended up in Abeir, and put it into his amulet, which lets him draw on both the spark and Gilgeam's memories, maybe even uses it to trap Gilgeam's soul.

His connect with the amulet gave him limited divine power, but upon entering Toril, his worshippers massively boosted his power, so I think he's closer to being an Avatar/Incarnation of Gilgeam then he had been and he grows more powerful still. But Nanna-Sin's spark would have push him the rest of the way.

But denied that Spark their could still be the Sparks of Inanna, Kurru, and other dead Untherite Gods to harvest, and more territory/worshippers to collect, so this isn't really over, the question is what happened to either bodies, and is their sparks powerful enough to give Gilgeam what he wants.

Is it still possible bring them back, perhaps in the way Gilgeam was?

As for Nanna-Sin new Immortal form, I can see him greating Undying Pacts to Warlocks.

And one wonders if Asmodeaus will take on some of Nanna-Sin's traits and if he can grant spells in Nanna Sin's name.

Also in question is the Plane of Ziggurtus, whereever it is, is still at stake.

Another thought is New Unther/Tymanther seems to be a mix of both, so outside of Unthlass and the two Dragonborn cities, the area could be very strange, and chaotic, some possible in Mulhorandi hands, but the ones who served the Genasi, so now that they're back in Toril do the Abeir Mulhorandi join with the Toril Mulhorandi and with possible Shadow Plane Mulhorandi?

And one wonders what else was brought back to Toril from Abeir, what strange things, like artifacts of the Dawn Titans.

Also I think that Caisys is basically an immortal Tiefling portal, with a shit load of progeny, so anyone who wants to move between Abeir and Toril can do so via Caisys. They're maybe other portals. Ironically he's what the Steel Sky Liberators had wanted all along.

I also like that the new Eyerines forms were explained and tied to what happened during the battle. But I'm wondering, are the Pradaxi (sorry for the mispelled word), just bigger, more powerful Eyerines of the new form, or are they closer to the old form, but with wings?

I'm glad Mot got promoted to Eyerine, I was expecting a Spinagin promotion, this is much bigger, but cooler. Mot, the very male Imp, got turned into a very female Eyerine, which makes one wonder how fiends experience gender and sex.

I'm glad Lorcan survived, and I love that his nasty sister ended up his pet Imp. Although I will note, that she retains her memories of her life as a Cambion and can get promoted now, not just in title, but into more powerful devil or succubus (maybe), forms.

So many interesting plotlines, characters, cosmic beings, political intrigue (including the reverbations of what was happening else where), I feel like I barely scratched the surface of this wonderful novel.


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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1271 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  05:43:14  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Schreckstoff

Pretty sure she'd end up before Kelemvor as a faithless if her soul wasn't claimed no one came to offer her haven when she was dead after all.



Selune did, although various devils from various layers tried to tempt her.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2827 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2016 :  05:51:11  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Schreckstoff

Don't remind me of the Brown Elves, can't believe that was just never followed up.



I'm torn on that. From a certain viewpoint, it's a waste, from another one, it's better so because of its ugly implications. It essentially demolishes all that Eilistraee and her followers stand for, reducing it to changing the skin color of a narrow % of drow, and abandoning all the rest to their fate (when in her lore Eilistraee is about being a mother goddess, teaching the drow the joy of life that they were denied, and helping them build their own place in the world, as drow). It warps redemption from ''choosing a different life, forging their own path in the world'' (which, again, is what Eilistraee is about) to ''redemption for some kind of original sin and for what the drow are''

It was also forced on her followers, which is flat out a violence. They didn't get to choose and were forced to give up the body that they were born with, what they were, because in the eyes of the Seldarine it was corrupt and they couldn't access to another paradise (even tho it was irrelevant, as they already had access to Eilistraee's realm). For a goddess that stands for accepting people for what they are, and that tries to never artifically alter or force the choices of her people, that makes no sense.

Not only that, but it implies that the drow, no matter what they do, need to physically change themselves in order to be accepted by the Seldarine and the elves. Add to that all the transformed drow that died in the Underdark, and the fact that reversing the curse gave them absolutely nothing, and you can see why WotC chose to retcon that and say that Eilistraee has drow followers post Sundering.

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