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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 16:28:42
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This topic sprung up in my mind while reading another thread here at the Keep about how the actual combat with dietie's avatars actually happened. Per GH the war was really fast but I do not see a reason for any destruction at that magnitude if the Imaskari artificers haven't been able to stand against those gods. Why would their emperor dueled with Horus if he had no chance to win? They were not stupid and had plenty of options for retreat. I am not sure there is a single description of such fight besides mentioned duel.
So have you found any lore regarding imaskari weapons against gods/planars? I am also interested in any thoughts in this direction and of course speculations :-)
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 16:31:12
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| Just to add it here also I am using Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings as a Imaskari artefact that was able to banish a diety level of power from Material Plane so it might be a example of weapon used by them (it is not supported by any official lore now). |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 17:37:03
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total conjecture on my part.
Honestly, since the imaskari are a wizard society, just say they overcharged the spell weave in their area, which is how the raurin desert was formed in the aftermath.
I think an entire mystical energy as a weapon can be used to kill entities.
This macguffin is hidden in the desert and has been reduced to a legend. |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 18:04:52
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| I also always considered the Scepter of the Sorcerer Kings as tied to the Imaskari... it just fits well. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 18:16:31
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| Maybe they underestimated the power of the manifestations, maybe the manifestations deliberately hid their true power until their prime targets took the field |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 19:08:23
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They have been able to ward whole pantheon from Toril. I believe they had the power to stand against them based on this at least. There is also a problem with killing a diety when they only send avatars but in this case it should be possible as they were fully in physical bodies to circumvent the barrier...
I like the idea of desert being left over from usage of large scale magic... that make more sense than that some god really liked purple :-) |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2016 : 06:46:22
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This is a great point. Given their accomplishments, the Imaskari mages were likely very confident in their power. But archmages are always layered with contingency spells, precisely because you never know what sort of powerful creatures you might run into with crazy spell resistance. Or when you might run into an even more powerful archmage.
Plus, we've seen the highest end wizards in FR (Elminster, Larloch, the Simbul, the Srinshee, Vhostym, Telamont, etc.) display feats on par with any demigod. And we've seen avatars defeated before, such as Moander's and Ghaunadaur's. So I don't buy the whole, gods = automatic win story. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2016 : 11:53:35
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So we could also deconstruct what we know already. Imaskari were masters of planar magic, they used a lot of extra-dimensional space and portals so there should be some pocket dimensions also where they could rig a battlefield in their favor. They could also entrap some of those avatars in those spaces without easy exit thus dividing their power. They also used constructs so size of the avatars could be mitigated by that. Planar barrier was sort of Dimensional Anchor spell covering a huge area so gods couldn't summon help they didn't brought with them. Possibly imaskari could banish some of those inside or even some of the avatars.
Another interesting thing is that even that whole pantheon (or two) haven't been able to dismantle the planar barrier and Ao had to do that... |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2016 : 15:33:24
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For Mulhorand time I have used version that Planar Barrier is only in size of Imaskari central empire and that is a reason why gods moved to Skuld - it is already outside of that place as is Unther.
The big question thou is how does a mortal wizard kill a diety? Barrier forced them to this confrontation directly so it was at least possible (similar to gated demon). |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 03 Oct 2016 : 19:42:32
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Even with the manifestations the deities were not truly on Toril, it was still just beefed up avatars. So you would destroy them like any other avatars, just muster overwhelming force.
Inlike gated demons this would just send the energy used in the manifestation back home. However Ao barred any deiy losing her manifestation from interacting with toril ever again, thus dead as far as anyone on toril was concerned.
Note that pandorym was actually brought to toril to fight the manifestations, he was not meant to face full fledged deities |
Edited by - Mirtek on 03 Oct 2016 19:44:41 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 15:03:36
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| What source do you have for this? AFAIK in this case they were forced to fully embrace a physical body to get there. I haven't heard about that Ao decree you speak of. Pandorym is a good point thou and was probably meant as one of the weapons to be used against gods. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 00:07:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
What source do you have for this? AFAIK in this case they were forced to fully embrace a physical body to get there.
Basically every source that ever said something about the mulhorandi and untheric pantheons.
The deities were hanging in their outer planar realms all the time while their manifestations were left to fight for themselves or be slain and reabsorbed ending the deities chance of a connection to Toril. |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 11:28:13
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| So you are speaking about the multispheric "base" of the gods and their aspect on Toril. Than it is the same as we are talking about Toril space only. That also explain the Ao decree you mentioned as it also work with multispheric dieties. However it is not avatar only those aspects are entirely separate and can have different domains/looks/... |
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Imaskari fight with dieties
