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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 10:00:41
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How you describe you wish them to be is pretty much how they are, I think.
As I see it, the factions have been a large part of material because they've designed the Adventurer's League around them. Through the AL, players get access to defined perks and things such as "access to a mentor". You move up through the ranks of a faction (and thus get more perks) by getting Renown Points, which are gained by completing missions and quests in that faction's interests. But the AL is its own weird thing.
In non-AL play, (or as I would call it, traditional play), Renown Points still exist, as do the ranks within each faction. Or at least, they exist as much as any rules in the 5E DMG do: they're at the DM's discretion. Factions and renown are covered in p21-23 of the 5e DMG. However, the perks are NOT defined, and left to the DM. For instance, you need 1 Renown Point with the Harpers to gain the initial rank of Watcher, then 3 RP for Harpshadow, and so forth, but it's left to the DM to decide what being a Harpshadow actually means. Some guidance is given, eg. gaining better contacts, followers, resources, etc - the kind of ideas you put forward actually. It's also advised that DMs can add additional requirements for ranks beyond Renown Points, eg. character level (or for something like the Lords' Alliance, perhaps holdings of land). No hardboiled character stat/skill/ability/feat increases are specifically encouraged - it seems that they wish the factions to be a roleplaying aid, to get people to care more about the world and their character's place in it.
The factions exist in my own game, but I have to say I threw Renown Points and specific ranks out the window, they seem unnecessary and overly codified. I still advance characters in the respect of a certain faction, just without the numbers. I suppose Renown Points are a nice number for players to be able to look at and see that they're improving in the eyes of a faction, and gaining more influence, but I prefer such things to be more in the ether. I do respect the idea behind it though.
Downsides include that the factions haven't really been fleshed out very well. There's information on overall goals, but not on any specific figures within any of the organizations. For the Harpers there's some information from 4e and novels, and the Lords' Alliance is relatively obvious, but the Zhentarim are pretty enigmatic, the Order of the Gauntlet is very poorly defined, and the Emerald Enclave... well....
Interestingly Chris Perkins straight-out admitted on the D&D podcast that using the Emerald Enclave as one of the factions was purely an artifact of needing a faction with a different ideology to the others active in the region, there was no good story reason for it. Hopefully they'll back-track in some lore when the time eventually comes to release a proper campaign setting... |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe
Australia
763 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 10:12:59
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Example ranks (RP = renown point)
Harpers
1 RP = Watcher
3 RP = Harpshadow
10 RP = Brightcandle
25 RP = Wise Owl
50 RP = High Harper
Each of the factions advances in the 1-3-10-25-50 pattern. The rank of "High Harper" is the only rank name in any of the factions that has any lore-wise significance to me, but as these Harpers are different to the Harpers of old, it may not have the same meaning as it used to.
If I was to ask for improvements to the current factions, I would ask for more defined benefits, and a more defined leadership structure - for instance:
Watchers get a mentor within the Harpers who provides them with resources for Harper-given missions
Harpshadows get a lesser Harper pin, and access to Harper caches
Brightcandles get access to the Harper gate-network
Wise Owls get a greater harper pin and are able to give missions to those below them in rank
High Harpers get to have a say in the overall strategy of the organization |
Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North |
Edited by - KanzenAU on 01 Oct 2016 10:24:58 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4426 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2016 : 20:07:26
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| Factions and renown points are an interesting way to bring lore, mechanics, and a bigger involvement (RP wise) to a campaign where as before it was done through Prestige Classes, Paragon Paths, or Organizations (3e's PHB 2 and DMG 2). For example you could use this method to express advancement in the Purple Dragons, Zhentarim, Red Wizards, etc. Pretty cool IMO |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4426 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 06:00:46
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well i dislike automatic access to anything, and ranks within an organisation should likewise be ignored.
Who said anything about automatic? I mean you'd probably have to prove yourself in some way to be offered an entry into an organization (unless it's scripted in AL, which I've never done)? As to ranks within an organization, it's how you classify who is what. I mean every branch of the military and non-military organization have some sort of ranking, showing either how you've obtained your status by paying money or donating or doing things to prove your worth.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
However improving your standing with an organisation by performing services makes sense (how else does one become a harper friend).
Yea, it's called getting a higher rank.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Im wondering now if it is possible to write the same adventure but from 5 or more different perspectives. One for each faction with their own quests and outcomes and assistance, and another without any of that.
I've never done AI so I don't know about how far they go into it but I"m assuming that different outcomes are more favorable to each party, though in different ways.
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Fendrikor
Learned Scribe
Australia
189 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2016 : 15:38:48
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Hrmm my two cents. I run my game in a living world style setting with a few other DM's. Its not Aleague, and we do have factions.
But its largely down to DM's discression what those factions can do given the DM's part of the gameworld (for example, theres very poor support for the lords alliance in Amn).
The players can begin earning rep for a faction once they express an interest in being recruited (either through meeting with agents in game, or starting with the faction agent background). These characters acrue 1-2 reknown points each time they check back in with someone capable within the organisation who can pass on a good word about something they did which was worthy of reknown.
A few examples...
At the end of Sunless citidel (Which i set on the borders of Trielta) two of my players, one a zhent, one an emerald enclave agent - had an argument as to what to do with the Gulthias tree at the bottom of the dungeon. The Zhent wanted to keep the tree so that the Zhentarim could take monopoly over the trees magic red and white apples, maybe too study a way to control the blights it makes. The Emerald enclave member knew that the EE had initially created the tree by staking a vampire with a living stake - unwittingly making the abomination - which he in turn decided needed to be destroyed as it was throwing out the balance in the nearby surface woods. They fought eachother, and the EE druid was defeated (but managed to escape in panther form). He got 2 rep for reporting back to the emerald enclave about the tree, while the Zhent guy got 2 rep and a secret mission sucess for securing the tree. It was enough to rep both of them up to rank 2 with their faction (They had 1 rep each already at that point). The Zhent player then changed tables for a few months, returning after the EE character had met a horrible end. He is currently now nearly rank 3 - and has had some acess to a hidden Zhentarim Cache at the temple of Cyric in the city of hillsedge before a particularly perilous mission. The EE character, before his death, managed to use his second rank benefits to secure a meeting in Waterdeep with an EE advisor to Laerel Silverhand and draw upon the Avery to supply Hippogryphs to cut a long journey's travel time down significantly... ofcourse it was a 1 way ticket but it still required a persuasion check to market the worth of the mission (to retrieve a relic, which accidentally destroyed him in the end).
Another example of some faction rep gain was my two Lords alliance players, a Knight from Cormyr and Cleric from the red war college north of Baldurs gate. They have had no shortage of Lords, Hedge nobles and councils to work for (making it one of the easiest factions to play by far on the sword coast!). From Lord Elvar of Triel, The High Overseer Thavius Kreeg of Elturel, Lady Morgan Bloodhawk of the red war college, Duchess Garland Greywater of Orlumbor, The collective nobility sponsoring the Horizon Armada, Laerel Silverhand and the Masked Lords of Waterdeep and finally Count Norro Wiston of Hillsedge in the sunset vale - they are sitting on around 8 rep each now. At the current point, the Cleric is using her rep and her ties to the Red War College to get the ear of important people to influence a war. The only reason she is being heard or considered at all are her connections and her reknown but that doesnt guarentee sucess of command of soldiers... just yet, but it can help in advising more sane/logical strategies and preperations. The other one, The Knight of Cormyr, is hoping that his reknown will reflect the deeds of his house and his status among the lords of the Sword coast. As yet, his deeds earn him friendly responses as a protector of the realm and he has even received support in the form of potions and fuss-free audiences with local nobility where applicable.
In short, Reknown is a great tool for gauging and pacing the players standing with a large connected resource they can draw upon to add a level of politics and bigger world thinking to a game.
At its worst - it can cause interplayer conflicts as clashing faction interests threaten party unity. In a living world this isnt so much of an issue as like minded players tend to eventually gravitate towards the same tables to game together. In a 'traditional' game i would recommend only using it as a rough tool to figure out how willing a faction is to trust a player with a sacrifice in local resources (soldiers, magic items, discounts, acommodation, mounts etc) Its essentially an integrity / opinion guage.
I would strongly recommend you either run a homebrew plot forcing all the factions to work together (such as the major 5e modules) so that a bigger threat and draw out cohesion. Or shelve faction membership all together as a mechanic and adopt a more hollistic natural 'makes sense' discressionary approach to membership as used in previous editions.
Hope this helped alittle.
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'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup' |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2016 : 05:04:23
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I've created a couple of new factions for my 5E campaign. And I purposely de-emphasized the hyper-importance of the Harpers and the Lord's Alliance. Many of the latest 5E adventurers presumes that the Harpers have their hands on everything. I have neutered them somewhat, since the Harpers should be a "hidden" organization that you rarely even notice.
Those adventures also give the impression that the Lord's Alliance is like some Grand Confederacy of City-State-Nations. That's such BS. In reality, only a small handful of city-states are members of the Alliance. And even then, not every citizen and not every leader/official of those cities are actual members or supporters of the Lord's Alliance. So even if Waterdeep is technically a "member" of the Alliance, I would more realistically portray that many factions in Waterdeep and several of the Hidden Lords of Waterdeep actually work against and loathe the Alliance.
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2016 : 15:18:08
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I gave the following perks for joining a faction, and I intend to come up with new ones on the fly as the story of my campaign demands. They tend to give a sense of interaction on more coastal or regional scale.
Harpers
Arcane Amnesty: allowing advantage on skill checks dealing with the use and restrictions of magic in settlements
Order of the Gauntlet
Friendly Judge: Access to use of a veteran for one combat/trial in each settlement
Emerald Enclave
Secluded Haven: Find a secret resting place in nature outside each settlement
Lords Alliance
Lord ....'s Association: Get advantage on CHA intimidation checks against anyone who knows the lord
Zhentarim
Procure Illegal Goods: can try to get potions, alchemical items and scrolls at reduced cost but with random risks depending on the settlement
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My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2016 : 11:18:54
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Bladewind, those benefits are a good idea. Although I personally would refrain from bestowing them to any PC at the entry-level Faction Rank. Maybe wait until they've proven themselves and obtained faction Rank 2?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2016 : 19:24:04
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The first time I saw heavy use of the 'factions' concept in a game (both RPG and TT miniatures) was in the Warmachine/Iron Kingdoms line, and they played it to the fullest. It worked well with their RPG, just because of the factionalized nature of their minis game.
Later Paizo picked-up the concept and ran with it, and made it a central theme to their pathfinder/Golarion setting. I don't know if they are still playing-up that aspect - I haven't gone over to their site or looked at their stuff in quite awhile. I suppose the WotC people became aware of all that and borrowed the idea as well.
I like the direction you are taking it Dazzerdal - almost like taking the factions concept and merging it with a hybrid of the old 'Professions' and PrC rules.
I would make it 'tiered', though. Have levels 1-3 be 'friend' (i.e., "Harper Friend"), with no benefits outside of RPing. Then add other perks as they level-up. Also, disadvantages would be in-order to offset those perks (a high-level Harper would have a much harder time in Zhentil Keep than a 'newb', just because he's already a known personage). Basically, the higher-up you go in one faction, the worse your reaction rolls should be with others, and the harder it would be hide your identity. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Oct 2016 19:31:46 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2016 : 19:53:43
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Well, there are Harpers, and then there are Harpers. 
In other words, the low-levs might consider themselves important, but the sad truth is - even within 'good' organizations - the lower-lev you are, the more 'expendable' you are. The ends justify the means.
So most Harpers probably only know whats going on in their area, while a higher-up would know about larger plans, etc. The 'big guns' are going to know about continent-wide operations. So, just because somene is a 'Harper' doesn't mean they are privy to everything. Same goes for other organizations. Most of these clandestine groups use a 'cell' organization, to keep enemy intelligence to a minimum. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Factions
