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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1194 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2016 :  14:26:56  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Anyone know where the major conflicts in the realms are?

I know of the border skirmishes Mulhorand is having with the Imaskari, so I'm guessing some 20 000 mulan troops (magic stone-slingers, axe / spear and shield infantry led by divine champion Nezram the World-Walker, animated warmachines of Toth and southern magicians) are currently mobilised against the Imaskari surface garrisons in the Plains of Purple Dust. Imaskari defenders of the Skyclave (presumably under siege) probably have about 6 000 troops strong (arcane artillery, shadowmagic saboteurs and flying cavalry backed by mobile medium infantry) defending 18000 inhabitants.

Could we approximate numbers for other military conflicts elsewhere in Faerun?

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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
139 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2016 :  14:41:29  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Myth Drannor, because dark deities won't allow us elves to have nice things any more......Couldn't give you too many accurate numbers because there aren't too many of us left to talk about it by the time we finally retreated to Semberholme. The Coronal's taking it hard but still putting on a good face. I will say that we damned near drove the human mercenary population of the Heartlands (mainly those from Sembia) to that of an endangered species.

In short: Ed was very, very vague with his descriptions of the overall battle (unless said descriptions were about the murderous locks of hair of a certain bard). We also don't know any of the details that followed the pitched siege, such as the war with the shadovar/mercs leading up to it.

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Edited by - Adhriva on 16 Jul 2016 17:48:56
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2729 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2016 :  15:47:11  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The returned Old Empires are bent on driving away the dragonborn of what remains of Tymanther.

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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1194 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2016 :  23:50:33  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So Gilgeam is at Djerad Thymars doorstep? That pyramid city is pretty massive (1500 ft high) and hard to siege. I think its probably doomed without allies though.

What did the untherite army look like, and how has it changed since their return from Abeir? I guess Unther was known for master spearmen, in both throwing and formation techniques and armor cracking mace and shield heavy infantry, and employed numerous mercenary armies to complement their forces. Fighting oppression on Abeir has forged a new Father of Victory, and even a exarch/demigod status Gilgeam is a very powerful asset on a battlefield. Who among the godless dragonborn can stop a demi-god?

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BrianDavion
Seeker

71 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2016 :  10:40:17  Show Profile Send BrianDavion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

So Gilgeam is at Djerad Thymars doorstep? That pyramid city is pretty massive (1500 ft high) and hard to siege. I think its probably doomed without allies though.

What did the untherite army look like, and how has it changed since their return from Abeir? I guess Unther was known for master spearmen, in both throwing and formation techniques and armor cracking mace and shield heavy infantry, and employed numerous mercenary armies to complement their forces. Fighting oppression on Abeir has forged a new Father of Victory, and even a exarch/demigod status Gilgeam is a very powerful asset on a battlefield. Who among the godless dragonborn can stop a demi-god?



makes one wonder if perhaps they'll be forced to turn to a god to avoid being wiped out.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3549 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2016 :  11:16:54  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unthers army was known for being under equipped (bronze weapons and armour were still in use), low on morale (with harsh punishments meted out for failure, corrupt at the highest level, and pretty much completely ineffectual against anything more than a mob of peasants.
I wouldnt be surprised to find unther's army full of slaves. At least thats how it was in 1360+.

5e realms has no connection to that timeline so it could be anything now (up to and including mechs with laser beams from their eyes).

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2729 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2016 :  13:49:38  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

So Gilgeam is at Djerad Thymars doorstep? That pyramid city is pretty massive (1500 ft high) and hard to siege. I think its probably doomed without allies though.

What did the untherite army look like, and how has it changed since their return from Abeir? I guess Unther was known for master spearmen, in both throwing and formation techniques and armor cracking mace and shield heavy infantry, and employed numerous mercenary armies to complement their forces. Fighting oppression on Abeir has forged a new Father of Victory, and even a exarch/demigod status Gilgeam is a very powerful asset on a battlefield. Who among the godless dragonborn can stop a demi-god?



The Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide only says that, while the Dragonborn have been pushed back to Djerad Thymars, they are holding it quite well. They mention the beasts that guard the city as an asset.

If you want more, you should check Erin Evan's Ashes of Tyrant, as it deals specificially with this matter. I haven't read it yet, so I can't provide you more info than I already have.

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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

512 Posts

Posted - 17 Jul 2016 :  19:22:17  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

Who among the godless dragonborn can stop a demi-god?

That depends on whether Erin writes demigods like Richard L. Byers (then probably Mehen or Farideh will just defeat him in single combat) or like Paul S. Kemp (then they are doomed without getting a deity on their side)

The capabilities of a demigod vary to such a huge degree between authors that it's impossible to tell

Edited by - Mirtek on 17 Jul 2016 19:23:34
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1194 Posts

Posted - 18 Jul 2016 :  18:25:00  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gilgeam is probably as powerful as an fighter 2 cleric of war 20 wielding a godlike +5 mace of disruption in my 15th century Realms.

As for Myth Drannor, I kinda see that conflict as resolved... With the added effect of renewing Myth Drannor as a artifact ridden mega dungeon site with a struggling elven settlement attached. The Shrinshee survived I believe, aye? Making a Shrinshee build in 5e is tough, but a 12 level sorcerer and 20th level wizard 'lich' baelnorn will do I think.


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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2016 :  12:54:03  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Who among the godless dragonborn can stop a demi-god?"

If you read Erin Evans last novel you'll know who.

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2016 :  13:13:37  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

Anyone know where the major conflicts in the realms are?

I know of the border skirmishes Mulhorand is having with the Imaskari, so I'm guessing some 20 000 mulan troops (magic stone-slingers, axe / spear and shield infantry led by divine champion Nezram the World-Walker, animated warmachines of Toth and southern magicians) are currently mobilised against the Imaskari surface garrisons in the Plains of Purple Dust. Imaskari defenders of the Skyclave (presumably under siege) probably have about 6 000 troops strong (arcane artillery, shadowmagic saboteurs and flying cavalry backed by mobile medium infantry) defending 18000 inhabitants.

Could we approximate numbers for other military conflicts elsewhere in Faerun?




Where are you getting these details?

Anyways the major wars are Shade/Sembia vs. Cormyr, Dales, Myth Drannor. Winners Cormyr and the Dales, at the price of Myth Drannor.

Mulhorand vs. High Imaskar, winner Mulhorand with the Imaskar running to the Plains of Purple Dust, which is territory Mulhorand doesn't want. Some Imaskari fled to extraplanar holds.

Unther was at war with somebody in Abier and was winning that war, was about to take a major Genasi city, when they were returned to Toril and went to war with the Dragonborn. It looks like its a stalemate at this point.

I think there is or might be war between Najara and Estgurd.

Civil War in Calimshan, with the Djinn and Efferti getting kicked out, leaving the humans, Tieflings, and surviving Genasi.

Some uprisings and minor wars in the Moonshaes.

Silverymoon vs. the Orcs of Many Arrows.

That's all I could think of.

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2016 :  13:15:23  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

Gilgeam is probably as powerful as an fighter 2 cleric of war 20 wielding a godlike +5 mace of disruption in my 15th century Realms.

As for Myth Drannor, I kinda see that conflict as resolved... With the added effect of renewing Myth Drannor as a artifact ridden mega dungeon site with a struggling elven settlement attached. The Shrinshee survived I believe, aye? Making a Shrinshee build in 5e is tough, but a 12 level sorcerer and 20th level wizard 'lich' baelnorn will do I think.





You now have a mix of Myth Drannor ruins and Shade on top of it.
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
744 Posts

Posted - 19 Jul 2016 :  22:58:56  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm only just now reading the Sundering novels, but it's my understanding that during that period there's Chosen battling Chosen all over the place.

A passage from the Herald:
quote:
...folks proclaimed themselves Chosen of this god and that, and gathered armed hosts to battle other self-proclaimed Chosen...


In the recent WotC podcast where Ed talks about Death Masks he mentions gods having hundreds of Chosen roaming about. While I'd love to be able to say I have more information on that, I don't - but if anyone else does, please share!

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30340 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2016 :  03:44:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by KanzenAU

I'm only just now reading the Sundering novels, but it's my understanding that during that period there's Chosen battling Chosen all over the place.

A passage from the Herald:
quote:
...folks proclaimed themselves Chosen of this god and that, and gathered armed hosts to battle other self-proclaimed Chosen...


In the recent WotC podcast where Ed talks about Death Masks he mentions gods having hundreds of Chosen roaming about. While I'd love to be able to say I have more information on that, I don't - but if anyone else does, please share!



They did. Not that there was anything overly special about most of them... For a lot of them, they got a nifty extra ability or something and that was it.

A lot of them were really just throwaway characters. "Oh, hey, the Shades have rounded up a bunch of Chosen here, here, and there!"

I'm honestly not sure what WotC was thinking, there... They took an already badly abused and overused concept and turned it up to 11, just as a one-off plot device.

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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1194 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2016 :  11:23:16  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

Anyone know where the major conflicts in the realms are?

I know of the border skirmishes Mulhorand is having with the Imaskari, so I'm guessing some 20 000 mulan troops (magic stone-slingers, axe / spear and shield infantry led by divine champion Nezram the World-Walker, animated warmachines of Toth and southern magicians) are currently mobilised against the Imaskari surface garrisons in the Plains of Purple Dust. Imaskari defenders of the Skyclave (presumably under siege) probably have about 6 000 troops strong (arcane artillery, shadowmagic saboteurs and flying cavalry backed by mobile medium infantry) defending 18000 inhabitants.

Could we approximate numbers for other military conflicts elsewhere in Faerun?




Where are you getting these details?

Guestimates from the wiki page on Mulrohand: The troops and their numbers are extrapolated from the (old) population numbers
Nezram the WorldWalker is from the SCAG

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2016 :  13:16:25  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd guess closer to 53,000 to 100,000 professional soldiers and hundreds of thousands of revolting peasants, armed with knives and farm impliments.


Maybe 10,000 charioteers, 20,000-30,000 archers, 20,000-40,000 infanltry, 1,000-10,000 flying calvary, 3,000-10,000 magic users (cleric, paladins, warlocks of the undying patron, wizards, maybe a few druids of Isis, and of course Nezram the World Walker and apprentices), and that doesn't include mercenaries which Mulhorand has a long history of using or summoned celstials.

Nor does it include the God Pharoahs themselves, whose each manifestation has the power of a demigod or more, and his mortal incarnations likely have the power of a quasigod.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2016 :  13:28:37  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I believe Mulhorands population was 5.3 million once.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2052 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2016 :  19:15:34  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For now, Sword Coast Adventurers' Guide, the recent novels, and perhaps a few online articles are the best source of info we have.

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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore

Netherlands
1194 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  11:29:10  Show Profile Send Bladewind a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aye, I am trying to fill the void into something that might work in my campaign.

With the numbers Gyor suggested I'd say the imaskari Skyclave defence of 6000 stands no chance at repelling the seige a mulhorandi army of 100 000 can muster. They might manage to stall for more than a week or so with powerful magics. Could empress Ususi get anywhere with diplomacy with the avatar-commanders of Mulhorand? Despite isolationist conduct of the Deep Imaskari there is historic bad blood between the 'godless' imaskari elites and the 'spell begger' mulan rulers.

I guess I like the diplomatic solution for this conflicts outcome, with Ususi agreeing to a borderline change and perhaps bending the knee to Horus and Ra. Highly unlikely but might work as a (background) plot. This way I get to keep a humiliated Deep Imaskari people as a political liability in the Old Empires region...

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6094 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  13:56:36  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
my take on the High Imaskari is that some went to the Plains of Purple Dust, but some have taken advantage of some of the newly returned portions of the world... in particular, some of them have allied with a faction returned from Abeir (and no, not the Untherites) to settle certain old settlements of the Shaar.

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  13:59:48  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

my take on the High Imaskari is that some went to the Plains of Purple Dust, but some have taken advantage of some of the newly returned portions of the world... in particular, some of them have allied with a faction returned from Abeir (and no, not the Untherites) to settle certain old settlements of the Shaar.



My thoughts are that the High Imaskar retook the old ruins of the Bakkar Empire and Plans of Purple Dust and rebuilt them, along with teleporting Skyclave away.

With some holds in the Feywild and Shadowfell.

Also remember some Imaskari sided with the Mulhorand, like High Plannar Yanay, so there would be an Imaskar minority still in Mulhorand.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  14:13:20  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

Who among the godless dragonborn can stop a demi-god?

That depends on whether Erin writes demigods like Richard L. Byers (then probably Mehen or Farideh will just defeat him in single combat) or like Paul S. Kemp (then they are doomed without getting a deity on their side)

The capabilities of a demigod vary to such a huge degree between authors that it's impossible to tell



Having read the book, I'd say Gilgeam starts off at Byers level power because he just came from Abeir which is a giant nerf stick to divine beings but his power ramps up and by the end I'd say even Elminster would not win in a fight against Gilgeam (especially 5e Elminister). Sazz Tam might now even survive a fight with Gilgeam, he's powerful.

This version of Gilgeam is far scarier and more abimitious then 1e/2e/3e Gilgeam in my opinion.

Of course its means that the Mulhorandi Gods are likely just as powerful making it clear why the Imaskar were royally screwed.
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
788 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  14:57:25  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind

I guess I like the diplomatic solution for this conflicts outcome, with Ususi agreeing to a borderline change and perhaps bending the knee to Horus and Ra. Highly unlikely but might work as a (background) plot. This way I get to keep a humiliated Deep Imaskari people as a political liability in the Old Empires region...



Ususi was really old by 1479, so she was searching for a worthy successor (this is mentioned in both the 4e FRCG and in Whisper of Venom—Brotherhood of the Griffon novels). I guess that, by 1486 (that is when the Mulhorandi rebel), maybe a new emperor (with only a few years in the throne) had to deal with the rebellion.

In fact, seeing that Nezram had subverted a few Imaskari (at least, one of the four stewards, Yannay, was allied with Nezram, according to the 4e FRCG), he should have waited for a that period of time when Ususi stepped down to attack. Thanks to their inside allies, the coronation of a new emperor would be chaotic, to say the least.

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Having read the book, I'd say Gilgeam starts off at Byers level power because he just came from Abeir which is a giant nerf stick to divine beings but his power ramps up and by the end I'd say even Elminster would not win in a fight against Gilgeam (especially 5e Elminister). Sazz Tam might now even survive a fight with Gilgeam, he's powerful.

This version of Gilgeam is far scarier and more abimitious then 1e/2e/3e Gilgeam in my opinion.

Of course its means that the Mulhorandi Gods are likely just as powerful making it clear why the Imaskar were royally screwed.



This means Tymanther is full of baddasses, seeing that, by the time SCAG takes places, the tymantherans are screwing the Untheran army.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 16 Jul 2017 :  18:08:37  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tymanther has powerful friends.

SPOILER ALERT









The God Enlil,whose Gilgeam's Father, Nanna-Sin Former God turned Dragon Turtle (the former God is what protects the Dragonborn from Naval attacks, he merged with an ancient Dragon Turtle, his divine spark went Asnodeaus in exchange for life again, and he is allied,with Enlil), Traitors in the Untheritc Armies, and some wickly powerful Primordial Artifacts including a horn that can create massive, stone walls and buildings at the cost of turning part of one's lungs to stone permanently, incurable.



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