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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2016 : 22:46:05
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While we like to think that FR fans are legion, my experience with the DMs Guild shows that it isn't the case at all.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 01:12:59
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I think FR still has a decent fanbase, I just think most of them don't like to spend money.
I don't even think the crowdfunding way of making RPG products is very viable anymore - too many 'slip ups' the past couple of years. It might still be a good way to produce a good tabletop game, however.
As for authors, I know of only one who is making a living with crowdfunding (and thats probably because he is an excellent artist, as well as good writer and decent storyteller).
I had thought the DMs guild was a viable option for making some money, but I guess not.
I've been thinking about this a LOT lately, the past few years. There HAS TO be a way of using the way the internet works to make money with writing, but it would have to be some sort of model that hasn't quite been hit-upon yet. After all, those gawd-awful 'click-bait' sites make money with their ad revenue, and they force people to click through a couple dozen pages just to read what amounts to be one paragraph of information. So if people can make money by doing next to no writing and putting it together with something semi-interesting ("You won't believe what happened next!") pics, then I would think an actual AUTHOR should be able to make a comfortable living. I think we have to stop being so 'pure' with our approach, and sully ourselves with base business-models for making money (because eating is always a nice thing).
Perhaps something along the way of 'serialized' content, like how videos work on Youtube. Read a chapter, then click some ads to get to the next chapter, etc. Its an ugly concept, but something like that might work. So the story would actually be 'free', in that its being paid for by the advertisers (almost getting back to the early days of TV, with 'soaps'). The same would probably work for game-material as well.
You can't make money the 'old fashioned way' anymore. Book stores and like media are things of the past; people have the attention span of gnats now. And everyone thinks everything should be 'FREE', because its the internet. So we have to play their game - charge them their 'time' instead. Time IS money, after all, and if someone would rather click on 4-5 ads every 10 minutes, rather then spending $8 on a paperback, then thats what we might have to do. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2016 01:14:15 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 02:39:06
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| I think the DM's Guild just isn't well-known enough to the fan community, either. It's a great idea, but unless WotC really starts advertising it, people aren't going to know it's there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 05:40:37
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Well, then, perhaps its up to US to make sure people know its there. Its a catch-22 situation: Without great content, no-one really knows about it, but without anyone knowing about it, it will probably never grow into something huge (because the few contributors WILL 'give up' on it). The 'word of mouth' business model is a rough one, although you would think in the age of the internet, that wouldn't be so.
Its only for 5e, huh? Thats a shame. If they would allow 'edition neutral', and even 'system neutral', I think it could be amazing. Even pure fiction, which I think is what Elaine was aiming for.
{Sigh} Everyone is so concerned with holding onto 'their piece of the pie', that they don't realize no-one is generating any new pie... and no new fans of pie. They're slowly strangling their own revenue streams to death. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 05:47:43
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| I think that you can upload nearly pure-lore material (not fiction, tho, apparently). I've seen some good stuff like that on the DMGuild. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 06:50:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, then, perhaps its up to US to make sure people know its there.
I think you might be over-estimating the amount of US too. Not trying to gloom and doom but saying it as I see it.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 07:22:08
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'The Squeaky wheel', and all of that.
If there is not 'more of us', then we need to MAKE 'more of us'. If we fail to let the next generation know what they could do with their imaginations - not just gaming, but reading stories as well, then these wonderful things that 'civilization' has given us will fall by the wayside, replaced by medicore, cookie-cutter video game plots.
Right now, fantasy, scify, and gaming are in new golden era; we just need to find an exciting new method of tapping into all that. The audience is there - we just have to make ourselves heard. We have to give them a world they can get lost in, just like Ed gave us.
"If you build it, they will come." |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 08:58:31
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Well here is what i intend to do (although time and skill may diminiah this intention).
Id focus on building a community (like here) but with the content linked as well.
So id start with a website with the campaign guide and rules system available for free (the campaign guide only contains information about how to roleplay in the realms, no regional info).
The rest is membership only (costing $1 a month)
Then each region gets its own sourcebook. the sourcebook is all encompassing and contains every bit of info you might need to play in that region. it can be built up gradually and is open to submissions of ideas from members, giving lots of versions of the sourcebook (the latest available as webpages or pdf, the others available as pdf).
Each sourcebook includes a number of premade adventures that are meant for 1st, 5th and 10th level.
Then there are the timeline dependant events that can be used to update a region. This is made as a sourcebook/adventure booklet (like Storm Kings Thunder) allowing dms and players to take part in the events. So for instance in cormyr it would be the devil dragon war, in unther it would be the invasion by mulhorand.
So that way everything is interactive and because members can contribute they will feel invested (plus its free for members). you dont need to scour sourcebooks for info either, everything you might ever want to know about a region will be included in that region sourcebook and updated to include all future changes.
Then i would work on resources for DMs. so generic floorplans for buildings. Premade encounters that are realms specific and mini adventures in themselves. Premade characters.
And all of this backed up by a forum open to everyone to help build the community (wotc really dropped the ball by axing the forum).
If i owned the IP the novels would be just one possible outcome for an adventure plot. everything has to be playable otherwise whats the point.
But all this is just my pipe dream and unless my life gets easier (maybe in 3 years when my kids are older) i wont even be able to start working on it. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 20:37:07
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Perhaps a hybrid of our ideas? The way some sites do it now...
Ads to cover the cost of running the site. What that does is generate a MUCH larger 'fanbase' than otherwise possible (people don't like to spend money on the internet - we've become 'spoiled', and think everything should be 'FREE'). Its weird how people won't spend a dollar, but will waste an hour of their time clicking through ads just to read something. Time is the most precious thing we own, and yet, we squander it.
And then have a premium, 'pay for play' version of the site, without the ads (and maybe a few 'added perks' to make some people go that way who otherwise wouldn't).
I still think that (re)building the setting itself should be edition/rules neutral, to maximize the potential demographic. As Ed figured out long ago (and had to inform TSR, who seemed to be oblivious to the phenomena) - some people are 'collectors'. They just want to know about stuff (like The Forgotten Realms), but don't necessarily play the game. That's where the novels/stories and setting-only material comes in. I think WotC/Hasbro is missing a grand opportunity with their limited vision here.
Imagine building a world so detailed and involved that it feels 'real', to the point where fans could actually look at weekly newspapers (Broadsheets) from regions within the setting! Pull people in in the same manner that TV shows like The walking Dead and Game of Thrones do. Make it so that when people are sitting on a bus, or at lunch, or on a plane, they think, "Hey, I can catch-up on my Realms". That's what we need. We have to find a way to 'serialize' most of the content in such a way that people can catch little 'snapshots' whenever they have free time and are bored (which is how just about every App works). Imagine 'Current Clack' as an App!
It could WORK, but it will be very hard at first, and require many people to work for free (at first), but it COULD work.
The first thing you need to do is convince college kids its 'the next big thing', and that's actually fairly easy to do. That's how you generate a future in this industry. That will cause a 'social cascade' event, in both age-category directions (just like FB did). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Nov 2016 20:41:17 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2016 : 22:46:18
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You guys could make a small fortune. Of course, you'd have to start with a large fortune.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2016 : 12:45:27
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Thanks for the detailed reply! Sadly, my initial enthusiasm for the DMs Guild has waned, as it appears that fiction will not be included any time soon. My interest in FR lore is considerable, but it was always based in storytelling rather than gaming. So... ::sadface::
For me FR was always about storytelling. If you are content with us here at candlekeep as audience you can write whatever lore or story you want and we would be happy for it. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2016 : 14:03:25
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
While we like to think that FR fans are legion, my experience with the DMs Guild shows that it isn't the case at all.
-- George Krashos
I think there are quite a few FR fans, but not all of them are aware of the DM Guild. Of those who are, I would say quite a large percentage are people who game but don't read the fiction. Judging from what I read on Candlekeep, a lot of fiction readers are averse to ebooks, and so would not be likely to go for digital originals. So what we're dealing with is a subset of a subset of a subset of people who enjoy a particular setting in a sub-genre of the fantasy genre.
(...) Yeah. Something along those lines, anyway. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2016 : 14:21:34
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well here is what i intend to do (although time and skill may diminiah this intention).
Id focus on building a community (like here) but with the content linked as well.
So id start with a website with the campaign guide and rules system available for free (the campaign guide only contains information about how to roleplay in the realms, no regional info).
The rest is membership only (costing $1 a month)
Then each region gets its own sourcebook. the sourcebook is all encompassing and contains every bit of info you might need to play in that region. it can be built up gradually and is open to submissions of ideas from members, giving lots of versions of the sourcebook (the latest available as webpages or pdf, the others available as pdf).
Each sourcebook includes a number of premade adventures that are meant for 1st, 5th and 10th level.
Then there are the timeline dependant events that can be used to update a region. This is made as a sourcebook/adventure booklet (like Storm Kings Thunder) allowing dms and players to take part in the events. So for instance in cormyr it would be the devil dragon war, in unther it would be the invasion by mulhorand.
So that way everything is interactive and because members can contribute they will feel invested (plus its free for members). you dont need to scour sourcebooks for info either, everything you might ever want to know about a region will be included in that region sourcebook and updated to include all future changes.
Then i would work on resources for DMs. so generic floorplans for buildings. Premade encounters that are realms specific and mini adventures in themselves. Premade characters.
And all of this backed up by a forum open to everyone to help build the community (wotc really dropped the ball by axing the forum).
If i owned the IP the novels would be just one possible outcome for an adventure plot. everything has to be playable otherwise whats the point.
But all this is just my pipe dream and unless my life gets easier (maybe in 3 years when my kids are older) i wont even be able to start working on it.
Interesting plan. The problem, however, is that you can't make WotC material available online for free, and you can't charge for FR material EXCEPT through the DMsGuild site. Charging membership fees a website that offers FR material--even new, fan-written material--would be problematic.
For good or ill, the DMs Guild is the only (legal) game in town. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Nov 2016 : 14:31:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Thanks for the detailed reply! Sadly, my initial enthusiasm for the DMs Guild has waned, as it appears that fiction will not be included any time soon. My interest in FR lore is considerable, but it was always based in storytelling rather than gaming. So... ::sadface::
For me FR was always about storytelling. If you are content with us here at candlekeep as audience you can write whatever lore or story you want and we would be happy for it.
Thank you, Wrigley. Much appreciated. :)
I haven't been writing much over the past several years, for various reasons too numerous (and let's face it, boring...) to get into. But I'm starting a reboot. Here's what's going on at present:
This week, I'll be finishing up a short story for a themed anthology. Today, I sent in the NDA needed to get the bible for a new shared-world project, a novella-length story. Yesterday, I heard from the editor of another shared-world project about an upcoming anthology. During the month of November, I'll be finishing up a short non-fiction ebook, writing three new short stories, and writing the detailed plot outline for that 50K-word novella. In addition to working (more than) full time on a web business start-up.
So as you can well imagine, there isn't a lot of time left over for just-for-fun writing. As much as I love the Realms, I don't foresee being able to write new fanfic any time soon--not even for Candlekeep readers.  |
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Darromar
