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 Waterdeep in 1491 DR *Spoilers*
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BrianDavion
Seeker

71 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2016 :  19:15:21  Show Profile Send BrianDavion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lirdolin

quote:
Originally posted by BrianDavion
maybe but I said why not when. if there was a specific reason for being expelled (not that one was really needed, the man's tenure was by all accounts a complete disaster)



You mean wasting the fleet, letting the Harbor become a Floating wreckage-shanty-town, depending on Mintar for fleetships (and earning a good deal of money in doing so), secretly conspiring with the then Guildmaster of the Watchful Order to kill the Blackstaff, offering noble titles up for sale (well he saw that this was a dunb idea and stopped that practice again as well) and trying to become Lord of a second city (Neverwinter) as well? That wasn't a disaster, he was just the right Open Lord for Waterdeep of that time

I think it could especially been the Neverwinter-Project, that could have done him in for the Masked Lords.



well yeah I mean when you look at what he did it's a wonder Neverember is spoken well about in the source material. by rights not only should he have been pushed out of his spot as open Lord, the man should be a source of contempt and hate among most of Waterdeep.
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe

Germany
192 Posts

Posted - 22 Jun 2016 :  20:21:46  Show Profile  Visit Lirdolin's Homepage Send Lirdolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's why many citizens of Waterdepp think that he is behinde the murders in 'Death Masks' in some way. But actually there is a scene within the book where Dagult is shown as a capable man (by the way he handles Neverwinter), so maybe he learned from Waterdeep or maybe he really did the best he could with a city like Waterdeep at the time (by being one of the big vipers in a pit of vipers)?
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BrianDavion
Seeker

71 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2016 :  09:13:24  Show Profile Send BrianDavion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
it could be he's quite capable but simply was when running Waterdeep, corrupt. it may be that he's on his best behavior with Nevrwinter because he needs the people on his side if he wants to become King. I've actually for my own reasons been wondering what kind of impeachment process waterdeep has for the open lord and the masked lords. well (at least prior to the last novel) only one masked Lord had ever turned traitor, it happened on the watch of the guy who devised Waterdeeps current system of government, I can't imagine he wouldn't have created a mechanism to remove a corrupt lord. has the source material or Ed ever said?

Edited by - BrianDavion on 23 Jun 2016 09:15:47
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe

Germany
192 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2016 :  19:18:13  Show Profile  Visit Lirdolin's Homepage Send Lirdolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If there is a reason apperantly a Masked Lord can call for a gathering of the Masked Lords and if a majority decides against the Open Lord they can remove The Open Lord from Office.
That was my Impression from Death Masks where the Traitor Lord tries to remove Laeral from Office because of his Claim that she were a shapeshifting, murderous Monster who replaced Laeral.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1744 Posts

Posted - 23 Jun 2016 :  20:22:00  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh, Waterdeep. It's always something with you.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Lirdolin
Learned Scribe

Germany
192 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2016 :  20:48:25  Show Profile  Visit Lirdolin's Homepage Send Lirdolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Some small updates from Halls of Undermountain, Sword Coast Adventurers Guide, DeathMasks and Elminster's Forgotten Realms as well as the promised bold prints inthe later Posts for easier reading :)
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
535 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2016 :  21:54:08  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Love your work, this is a fantastic resource to have, so cheers for sharing your efforts!

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Nareshkendel
Acolyte

Venezuela
1 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  13:58:46  Show Profile Send Nareshkendel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi. One question, how big are the Walking Statues? Because searching online I found some references of them being 40ft tall. They built 5 big houses out of one of them?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29701 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  16:05:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nareshkendel

Hi. One question, how big are the Walking Statues? Because searching online I found some references of them being 40ft tall. They built 5 big houses out of one of them?



90 feet tall, according to Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

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Arivia
Great Reader

Canada
2869 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  17:15:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Nareshkendel

Hi. One question, how big are the Walking Statues? Because searching online I found some references of them being 40ft tall. They built 5 big houses out of one of them?



90 feet tall, according to Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.



Huh. City of Splendors: Waterdeep says 40 feet. Do we know why Eric changed it for 3e?
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3209 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  17:19:03  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At a guess because 90ft is beyond the colossal size category of 3.5e.

Completely guessing though. Im not checking the rules or anything

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4740 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2016 :  04:34:14  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'll check the manuscript and see if Eric left a note. Not like him to make that change without a good reason.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4740 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2016 :  08:31:14  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The answer is simple: the WotC staff did it and got it wrong. Eric never turned in a walking statue monster in his draft. Mind you they make allowance for a colossal walking statue which could be 90 feet tall.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 10 Nov 2016 08:35:33
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Mankyle
Seeker

Spain
15 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  11:57:25  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi there

I found this thread and I found it incredibly useful for my actual pet project of updating the Deep to 5e.

I have also added info from Storm Kings Thunder and the various articles, Dungeon and Dragon Magazines and other sources of info.

Does anyone know if there are out there any other reliable sources about waterdeep that don't fall under a NDA??

For the moment I'm updating the guilds and noble families so their descriptions reflect Waterdeep at the Beginning of 1491 DR
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29701 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  13:37:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It may be easier if you tell us what Waterdhavian resources you have access to - there are a bunch out there.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Mankyle
Seeker

Spain
15 Posts

Posted - 14 Feb 2017 :  13:47:34  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It may be easier if you tell us what Waterdhavian resources you have access to - there are a bunch out there.


I have City of Splendors, Waterdeep and the North, City System, and Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.

Plus this thread and Death Masks, Blackstaff tower and Circle of Skulls.

And of course all online articles at wizards page
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Mankyle
Seeker

Spain
15 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  09:53:59  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm updating and unifying all information I can find about the Waterdeep noble families in 5e, adding whatever canon info I can find about them and also adding the families crests in the upper part of each family entry. I'm also adding all NPCs names in 1491 DR I have been able to find, using this thread, other online articles and other sources such as SCAG, SKT and a couple of the AL Adventures

Would anyone be interested in a text like that??

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29701 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  09:57:40  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mankyle

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

It may be easier if you tell us what Waterdhavian resources you have access to - there are a bunch out there.


I have City of Splendors, Waterdeep and the North, City System, and Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.


Is that the City of Splendors boxed set from 2E, or the 3E hardback City of Splendors: Waterdeep?

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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Mankyle
Seeker

Spain
15 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  10:04:38  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 2nd edition one, the boxed set.

From that I have extracted the Noble families crests and coloured them.

I have even reenacted the traitor families crests, the ones from the Gildegh and Zoar families. I also have a preliminary version of the Neverember family crest.

It is a Shame that we don't have info about the new noble families such as the Ralnarths, Hedares, etc....
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Mankyle
Seeker

Spain
15 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  18:23:15  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have found one discrepancy between SCAG and SKT.

In their descriptions of Amphail,there is a difference.

SCAG: Says Daunier Ilzimmer, Lord Protector of Amphail, will end up his period of government next year and the government will pass to the Amcathras.
SKT: Lord Tyrandar Roaringhorn is trying to gain support as the neew Lord Protector of Amphail before Lord Ilzimmer's government ends...

There is another mistake in lore in the Heroes Articles in the Wizards Homepage.
http://dnd.wizards.com/dungeons-and-dragons/what-dd/heroes/alaeros
It says here the Margaster Family Coat of arms is an Stilized Green Dragon. Thats a mistake. It could either the Ilvastarr or the Hothemer coats of armas, but no the Margaster. The Margaster Coat of Armas is an eagle claw on yellow field.

Anyway, in SKT there are a lot of references to Waterhadvian nobles

Chapter 1
- Lady Velrosa Nandar, Regent of Nightstone

Chapter 2
- Lord Zelraun Roaringhorn, Patriarch of the Roaringhorns, Archmage and agent of the Harpers
- Othovir, Artisan in Triboar and member of House Margaster. He despises his family and wants nothing with them

Chapter 3
- Tylandar Roaringhorn, next ruler of Amphail (brother of Zelraun???)
- Tamalin Zoar, of the Zoar traitor Family, Lord Regent of Calling Horns village
- Horix Zoar, (brother of Tamalin?), Commander of the armies of Everlund.

Chapter 11
Arilosa Adarbrent, noble of the Adarbrent family that lets the player use her ship, the Coin Toss, and is a supporter of the Order of the Gauntlet

Could you add these names to the first post???


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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
535 Posts

Posted - 15 Feb 2017 :  23:33:33  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mankyle

I have found one discrepancy between SCAG and SKT.

In their descriptions of Amphail,there is a difference.

SCAG: Says Daunier Ilzimmer, Lord Protector of Amphail, will end up his period of government next year and the government will pass to the Amcathras.
SKT: Lord Tyrandar Roaringhorn is trying to gain support as the neew Lord Protector of Amphail before Lord Ilzimmer's government ends...

There is another mistake in lore in the Heroes Articles in the Wizards Homepage.
http://dnd.wizards.com/dungeons-and-dragons/what-dd/heroes/alaeros
It says here the Margaster Family Coat of arms is an Stilized Green Dragon. Thats a mistake. It could either the Ilvastarr or the Hothemer coats of armas, but no the Margaster. The Margaster Coat of Armas is an eagle claw on yellow field.

As to the first, perhaps the Amcathras and the Roaringhorns traded ruling periods for a rotation because the Amcathras couldn't find a successor (as mentioned in SCAG)? Needs a little massaging, sure, but as these books are set in different time periods it's not impossible to imagine that something changed. Good pick up though!

As to the second, we actually don't know what the heraldry of the Noble Houses is post-Spellplague. A lot of houses were absorbed, reorganized, died out then remade, etc. It's perfectly feasible that the heraldry changed over that period.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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Mankyle
Seeker

Spain
15 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  05:47:20  Show Profile Send Mankyle a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have found another inconsistency in 5e lore.

In PotA in the Westbridge entry they talk about the villa that the Silmerhelve noble family has there and that a Copper dragon called Umsheryoth protects her and the Silmerhelves.

In 2e and 3e sources that dragon is called Nymmurh.

Has anyone found other inconsistencies???
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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
535 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  08:34:51  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This isn't an inconsistency. Nymmurh is still a friend to the Silmerhelves, and makes an appearance in Rise of Tiamat. It just so happens the Silmerhelves have more than one copper dragon as allies - the two coppers may even been related.

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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zanetheinsane
Acolyte

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 12 Mar 2017 :  21:58:00  Show Profile Send zanetheinsane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Having never delved into the Forgotten Realms, my group's settled on fifth edition and Faerun for our next adventure. This is a fantastic resource on getting me up to speed on Waterdeep, where I'm planning to run our new campaign. Many thanks to Lirdolin and everyone else who put the time and effort into this.

I wanted to be able to print this off to keep a physical reference in a binder, so I formatted all of the information in the posts: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FXgWMZ__cRkjEjACopsBa7_K2irQv_LzwuFqySz1OG4/edit?usp=sharing

I've cleaned up the formatting for printing and standardized the formatting for book references and bolded all of them so they stand out from the text. I made a few minor aesthetic changes (without changing any of the actual information).

I may not be able to keep up-to-date with any new changes, so if Lirdolin (or anybody) wants to make a copy of the doc and use it, go nuts.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1723 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2017 :  06:02:09  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nice work!
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