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Charles Rampant
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
 Posted - 09 May 2016 : 20:18:25
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Hey all,
I'm currently gathering information for a campaign set in Waterdeep. (I'm building my own tiddlywiki, and copy/pasting information from PDFs into it, in order to have my own customised and hyperlinked document). Anyway, my question concerns the sources of information on Waterdeep. I've been making very extensive use of the Realmshelps.net website, which I believe is basically the 3.5 Waterdeep City of Splendors book; I have also bought the 1e Waterdeep & the North book. I own the Sword Coast Adventurers' Guide, but that is not so useful for Waterdeep itself. Am I missing anything by not looking at the 2e City of Splendors boxed set? I cannot find it available on drivethrurpg, and I am wondering how much more information could have been provided in it, as compared to the 1e and 3.5 books. In addition, is there any other source of information that I should be looking into? I am aware of the various Undermountain books, but have not made my mind up yet on whether I want to make my own dungeon maps up or not.
Many thanks for any suggestions!
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6647 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 20:59:56
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Volo's Guide to Waterdeep is your must have book. Of course, if you are running a post-Sundering campaign much of it will be outdated.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 21:13:02
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Volo's Guide to Waterdeep is your must have book. Of course, if you are running a post-Sundering campaign much of it will be outdated.
-- George Krashos
I could not agree more strongly, on this. Volo's Guide to Waterdeep is what made me the Realms fan I am now.
City of Splendors does expand on the material in Waterdeep & the North and add to it.
I would recommend at least the first Ruins of Undermountain boxed set; Undermountain is an important part of the city, and there are many connections between the two.
There are other bits and pieces scattered around, but Volo's Guide to Waterdeep and the City of Splendors boxed set will really help you out. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 21:27:10
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Technically, the last official Waterdeep sourcebook, City of Splendors: Waterdeep, is the best product to extrapolate forward into the post-Sundering Realms. It doesn't hurt if you can find older 1e and 2e Waterdeep material as well. I don't know if anyone has pulled together what is currently the state and happenings in Waterdeep from novels, accessories, web material, and whatnot, outside of Waterdeep's entry at the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
If any specific city in the Realms gets a proper in-depth treatment for 5e (at some point), Waterdeep is likely at the top of the list.
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- Ryan |
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Charles Rampant
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 21:54:58
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Unfortunately, the City of Splendors boxed set is not available on pdf - so I'll just have to do without that. Volo's Guide I had forgotten, partly due to the terrible font making my eyes bleed! However, it does seem to come highly recommended, and also seems like a good thing to pilfer whole building descriptions from.
Undermountain is quite a confusing topic - Drivethrurpg has some options (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse.php?keywords=undermountain) but not the 'Ruins of Undermountain' which was the first and main product describing it? I also understand that the 3.xe and 4e material was quite good, but very focused on combat encounters for those editions, thus not much use for my 5e game...
The current state of Waterdeep is not that far from the 2e state, AFAIK, although lots of little changes. But I quite frankly plan to totally ignore that - I'll just take the current 'timeline' from the Sword Coast Adventurers' Guide, and use the 2e/3.5e material for Waterdeep. I prefer the older 3.5e city maps to the new Jared Blando one, anyway. Any inconsistencies will be dealt with by simply not telling the players about them! :D |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 22:29:11
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All that stuff used to be available on pdf; it's odd that it's not available, now.
The first Ruins of Undermountain boxed set is indeed the best reference for that locale. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 01:42:25
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I've been running my game in Waterdeep lately and I have every source so I will rank for you those which I used most often.
1. Volo's Guide - by far and away this is what I used 90% of the time. It's a must have. Make sure it comes with the tear out map.
2. City of Splendors boxed set - mostly from this I used the maps but the Volo's guide has a map (make sure the one you get comes with the map). This box is really more useful for indepth details on older NPCs, noble families, and the whole "Adventurer Quarter" concept as a kick off for your campaign. However that concept flopped with my group. We never so much as set foot inside the AQ. There are a lot of nice NPCs detailed as well as more on the laws, economy, the lords, the harbor, economy, armies, etc.
3. City of Splendors: Waterdeep - this was more of a quick desk reference for some smaller maps and a few places. It's woefully lacking in any detail and many of the locations conflict or contradict Volo's Guide and the boxed set.
4. Watderdeep City System - No one has mentioned this yet. It's fantastic. Packed full of detail on buildings, streets, alleys, sites, great maps of the sewers etc. This has the most detailed maps.
I opted not to purchase the boxed set "Waterdeep and the North" because from what I saw most of the information was already replicated in another source, and it didn't have any other details to add.
My recommendation is to avoid any Undermountain products unless you specifically plan to go there.
I would instead highly recommend the Skullport supplement (the old one). It's packed with details and will help you connect Skullport, Waterdeep, and Undermountain.
I never even opened my Undermountain boxed set and I took that to mean that if I wasn't reading through it looking for something for my waterdeep campaign then I didn't need it. |
Edited by - Cards77 on 10 May 2016 01:45:20 |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 04:13:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
I've been running my game in Waterdeep lately and I have every source so I will rank for you those which I used most often.
1. Volo's Guide - by far and away this is what I used 90% of the time. It's a must have. Make sure it comes with the tear out map.
2. City of Splendors boxed set - mostly from this I used the maps but the Volo's guide has a map (make sure the one you get comes with the map). This box is really more useful for indepth details on older NPCs, noble families, and the whole "Adventurer Quarter" concept as a kick off for your campaign. However that concept flopped with my group. We never so much as set foot inside the AQ. There are a lot of nice NPCs detailed as well as more on the laws, economy, the lords, the harbor, economy, armies, etc.
3. City of Splendors: Waterdeep - this was more of a quick desk reference for some smaller maps and a few places. It's woefully lacking in any detail and many of the locations conflict or contradict Volo's Guide and the boxed set.
4. Watderdeep City System - No one has mentioned this yet. It's fantastic. Packed full of detail on buildings, streets, alleys, sites, great maps of the sewers etc. This has the most detailed maps.
I opted not to purchase the boxed set "Waterdeep and the North" because from what I saw most of the information was already replicated in another source, and it didn't have any other details to add.
My recommendation is to avoid any Undermountain products unless you specifically plan to go there.
I would instead highly recommend the Skullport supplement (the old one). It's packed with details and will help you connect Skullport, Waterdeep, and Undermountain.
I never even opened my Undermountain boxed set and I took that to mean that if I wasn't reading through it looking for something for my waterdeep campaign then I didn't need it.
All great sources. However, the reason City of Splendors: Waterdeep seems to contradict the other material is because it updates the other products from the 1st and 2nd editions into 3rd edition (technically 3.5e). It contradicts the other products because the lore is a little more current (looking back at it from the current post-Spellplague era). It certainly helps to have the older material as City of Splendors: Waterdeep glosses over details the 1e/2e products had down to the minutia. |
- Ryan |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 15:29:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
I've been running my game in Waterdeep lately and I have every source so I will rank for you those which I used most often.
1. Volo's Guide - by far and away this is what I used 90% of the time. It's a must have. Make sure it comes with the tear out map.
2. City of Splendors boxed set - mostly from this I used the maps but the Volo's guide has a map (make sure the one you get comes with the map). This box is really more useful for indepth details on older NPCs, noble families, and the whole "Adventurer Quarter" concept as a kick off for your campaign. However that concept flopped with my group. We never so much as set foot inside the AQ. There are a lot of nice NPCs detailed as well as more on the laws, economy, the lords, the harbor, economy, armies, etc.
3. City of Splendors: Waterdeep - this was more of a quick desk reference for some smaller maps and a few places. It's woefully lacking in any detail and many of the locations conflict or contradict Volo's Guide and the boxed set.
4. Watderdeep City System - No one has mentioned this yet. It's fantastic. Packed full of detail on buildings, streets, alleys, sites, great maps of the sewers etc. This has the most detailed maps.
I opted not to purchase the boxed set "Waterdeep and the North" because from what I saw most of the information was already replicated in another source, and it didn't have any other details to add.
My recommendation is to avoid any Undermountain products unless you specifically plan to go there.
I would instead highly recommend the Skullport supplement (the old one). It's packed with details and will help you connect Skullport, Waterdeep, and Undermountain.
I never even opened my Undermountain boxed set and I took that to mean that if I wasn't reading through it looking for something for my waterdeep campaign then I didn't need it.
All great sources. However, the reason City of Splendors: Waterdeep seems to contradict the other material is because it updates the other products from the 1st and 2nd editions into 3rd edition (technically 3.5e). It contradicts the other products because the lore is a little more current (looking back at it from the current post-Spellplague era). It certainly helps to have the older material as City of Splendors: Waterdeep glosses over details the 1e/2e products had down to the minutia.
Oh I'm aware of why the 3.5e contradicts. That doesn't make it more useable. The "lore" was updated some, but the main problem for me was the inexplicable loss of some locations, and the addition of others. I'm assuming this was because some businesses were destroyed etc during the ToT. That's all fine but when I'm using 2-4 sources to portray the city to me group, it's helpful if they agree. For the most part though they all do.
That is why I used the CoS: Waterdeep as a sort of quick reference and then went to the detailed sources if more detail was needed.
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Charles Rampant
Acolyte
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 16:32:28
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| On a slightly different topic, are there any good pictures of Waterdeep? I don't mean maps, but images for scene and setting. The 1e and 2e stuff is pretty limited, visually (art budgets and the like probably not being very high) and the City of Splendors book is actually pretty light on pictures. It has lots of space given to NPC stat blocks though, which is obviously super useful (?). |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 19:16:42
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Picture of Waterdeep at night
I like this photo.
I forgot how to post links...
But I quickly relearned! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 10 May 2016 19:18:46 |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
745 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2016 : 19:47:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Rampant
On a slightly different topic, are there any good pictures of Waterdeep? I don't mean maps, but images for scene and setting. The 1e and 2e stuff is pretty limited, visually (art budgets and the like probably not being very high) and the City of Splendors book is actually pretty light on pictures. It has lots of space given to NPC stat blocks though, which is obviously super useful (?).
There are very very few.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-238-U1KB1wk/UDtfUHtTYHI/AAAAAAAAAjU/2taOHWosI-M/s1600/Waterdeep.jpg
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City of Splendors
