Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Journals
 General Forgotten Realms Chat
 Alias Construct History / Midnight / Ariel Manx
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10016 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2016 :  13:12:28  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was looking at something someone talked about last year and some comments that I posted at the time. Putting that together with the idea that "Alias" was created just before the ToT.... makes me really wonder if Midnight aka Ariel Manx wasn't one of the "Alias Constructs"..... and that the demonic "beholder", Phalse, which provided the spirit essence was an avatar/aspect/creation/servant of Leira. Could Mystra have created Ariel with the knowledge that she would need a being to be assassinated instead of herself in a mere 27 years? Could she have placed "contingency" magics upon this "construct" that were only kicked off upon her death to bring her back in a century?
To take this a little further, could Moander have been involved here as it allowed him to "infect" the Faerunian Pantheon again and thereby attempt to destroy some gods? Did Finder actually absorb Moander's power, or did Finder instead enable Moander to fool Lolth into absorbing its essence (and thus, Lolth's silence and then splitting into multiple aspects was a result of Moander's corruption upon her)? Is Mystryl somehow tied to Moander as well in some way that we don't understand as yet, given that she is also a construct created by the corrupting power of the goddesses of light and darkness?


*** below from FR Wiki for Phalse***

Phalse was a being with beholder-like characteristics, except that his tentacles ended in mouths. Other beholders found this disgusting.

Phalse was one of the six involved in creating the human construct Alias. His symbol was a blue-upon-blue circle, presumably representing a beholder's central eye.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34593 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2016 :  15:52:21  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's no evidence that I am aware of that Midnight was anything other than a pure, vanilla human.

However...

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I just had a thought... When Mystryl died, she dumped her power into a human girl.

Mystra 1.0 dumped a lot of her power into a human girl, too, before Midnight came along and got the rest of that power.

We also know that Mystra 1.0 possessed a mortal woman and had a slew of daughters with her, daughters that contained part of Mystra's essence...

What if Mystryl did the same thing? It's possible that the nameless girl who became Mystra was either a daughter of or a descendant of Mystryl. For that matter, a lot of magical anamolies could be explained that way -- maybe all of the non-Seven Chosen are descendants of Mystryl. Maybe some other odd cases, like wild talents, incantatrices, and even spellfire wielders are all descendants of Mystryl.

I might be wrong, but it's an interesting idea, thinks I.



quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

In some of my 'deep secrets' musings in this thread and others, I have had some indication by 'persons in the know' (can't remember the specifics... probably Ed via THO) that the artifact that is Mystra requires some sort of mortal connection. Exactly why and and how deep that connection must be has never been discussed, because it falls into that 'deep secrets' category. I am not sure if it has anything to do with her initial creation, or some rule imposed upon her later by Ao (or even something else).




quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

Markustay, you recall correctly - - and Wooly, you tread into dangerous ground, you wise and insightful hamster, you!
(Which is a not so subtle way of saying you're on to something, both of you.)

THO



Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10016 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2016 :  02:17:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be interesting if these children must all be born entirely of magic (like Alias was), but still drawn from the original bloodline. Thus, perhaps Cassana was of the bloodline of Mystra? After all, we found out that there were multiple Alias clones.... but were they all created by Cassana / Zrie Prakis? For that matter, Finder was punished for attempting to make a similar clone of himself, and he also ascended to godhood..... if we dig into his bloodline will we find some similar deific links possibly to another deity.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
Go to Top of Page

Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34593 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2016 :  04:05:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Think about this: there is some evidence that magic use is in the blood... Maybe the first mortal magic users were all children of Mystryl, or were specifically gifted by her. So the first generation of magic users were something akin to Chosen, the second generation gifted but not as gifted, and subsequent generations just had a touch. Millennia have passed since then, but there's still that trace of divine blood, and the ability to use magic is tied to that. And perhaps those magical anomalies, and/or the exceptionally skilled mages, are those who managed to luck out in that particular genetic lottery and get a bit more of that divine blood.

I don't really see any way to tie in the Alias clones, though, or Finder. That idea does not work for me.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
Go to Top of Page

sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10016 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  16:32:40  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cast Minor Thread Necromancy

So, in the reimaginging Jhaamdath thread, I started talking about this again, because the idea came back to my head. It occurred to me that there are other individuals that this might fit. For instance, might we find that Cyric himself is a clone with ties to say Mask and that his whole life was nothing but a lie (which makes his "remaking" of his life in the "True Life of Cyric" that much more poetic). Along the way, the body of Leira that's "killed" by Godsbane (which I've theorized several things about in the past involving Godsbane absorbing/hiding her spirit until she "poured" herself out to form "The True Life of Cyric") might have been a similar creation set in place for the time of troubles. This becomes a lot more believable if the being that imbued them with souls (That of some weird beholder demon entity named Phalse which has mouths in place of eyes) was actually Leira. To note as well, the wiki on Ariel says that Zrie Prakis was there to make the body "immortal"... which is a level of divineness.

Perhaps even all of the beings involved in that ritual can be linked by bloodline to deities. For instance, Zrie Prakis… and I know this is a leap... but his symbol is three interlocked rings... and he's a lich... so perhaps if one traced him back he could be of the bloodline of Jergal. For instance, Finder takes on the portfolios of the cycle of life (rot to rebirth)… could he have relations to Lathander. Cassana might have ties to some god of magic. Heck, since Velsharoon eventually rises up, I wouldn't be surprised if he himself has ties to the bloodlines of Jergal through his bloodline of Halruaa/Netheril (not saying as an alias clone). Or if not of the direct bloodline, perhaps something they did linked them to gods, etc...

And when it comes to "why would the gods go to all this effort?" Maybe because the creation of a divine body REQUIRES mortal effort. Thus along these same lines, the creation of the original manifestations of the Mulan gods may have required something similar (though it could be vastly different ritual such as using blood of the gods, semen of the gods, etc..).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 29 Mar 2020 16:46:22
Go to Top of Page

AuldDragon
Senior Scribe

USA
416 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2020 :  23:54:46  Show Profile  Visit AuldDragon's Homepage Send AuldDragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you want some more divine bloodlines, I'd be inclined to make Phalse an offspring of the Great Mother of the beholders. It is known to have spawned a wide variety monstrosities, some by various fiends as well. Phalse could be one of those. Most of the offspring seem to kill each other off or roam the Great Mother's layer of the Abyss, with only Gzemnid having gained a substantial amount of individual power and name recognition.

Just something I pondered while working on the Great Mother's deity entry.

Jeff

My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."
Go to Top of Page

TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
620 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2020 :  00:48:08  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Per an ecology of the Ogre Magi Dragon article, all ogre magi are descendants of Vaprak the Destroyer. That would give them divine blood. A fact I took advantage of for a half-ogre magi NPC that was introduced in my campaign. Of course, if any ogre mage were to hear about this guy and his heritage, they would stop at nothing to kill him (gotta remove that weak bloodline).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2021 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000