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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Apr 2016 : 09:13:02
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AGAIN MASSIVE SPOILER(S) FOR MAESTRO BELOW DO NOT SCROLL IF YOU HAVEN'T READ IT AND INTEND TO
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YOU WERE WARNED!
Mr.Salvatore better not have Drizzt end up doing what Yvonnel is suggesting that she intends to have him do. Killing Cattie-Brie. I can deal with Drizzt going out in battle as his epic finale(which hopefully isn't soon) and I can deal with Cattie dying again(doesn't happen in MAESTRO) ,but having Drizzt be the instrument of her death, whether he is under mind control or tricked, would be a huge disappointment for me.
Now that that is done. A few SPOILERS
-Yayyy Entreri is back! So is the Claw.leaving whether his longevity is due to the sword or not...
-A most deserving fate for Tiago. " I got you Drizzt".." No you don't " ...lol
-It's lucky for Gromph that his plan with Cattie didn't succeed.
-Rebuilding the Hottstower to save Gauntylgrym.
All in all,as a Salvatore fan, I was thoroughly pleased with the book.
Any questions feel free to ask.
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2016 : 10:51:01
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I've just finished it. Overall, I liked it a lot; familiar characters get some welcome life breathed into them, and some fun new ones too (I love the 'all-new' Yvonnel - she's awesome!). Plus, plenty of action & intrigue.
OTOH, I found Cattie-Brie to be pretty annoying & unsympathetic, in a prissy moralizing way (I guess she & Drizzt really are made for each other......). I don't really care if she ends up sitting on Kozah's Needle.
I can't repeat enough how much I liked Yvonnel; she's a lot more nuanced than other drow characters, and a lot more fun (reminds me a bit of Liriel, except more powerful & nastier). I hope that Bob doesn't kill her off. |
Edited by - BenN on 05 Apr 2016 10:56:44 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 00:46:40
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| As I posted in the other thread, Drizzt killing Demogorgon was the low point, and where Bob trolls longtime realms fans a bit. |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 13:59:39
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quote:
Mr.Salvatore better not have Drizzt end up doing what Yvonnel is suggesting that she intends to have him do. Killing Cattie-Brie. I can deal with Drizzt going out in battle as his epic finale(which hopefully isn't soon) and I can deal with Cattie dying again(doesn't happen in MAESTRO) ,but having Drizzt be the instrument of her death, whether he is under mind control or tricked, would be a huge disappointment for me.
I'm 99% sure that Bob wouldn't do what you're fearing. I'd be impressed if he did, but it just isn't like him to do something like that. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2016 : 21:03:50
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I just posted my review of Maestro in another thread (hadn't seen this one). I doubt he would have Drizzt kill Catti-brie. There was much about that book that made me a little ticked, though overall it was a good read.
But Bob went through a lot of trouble to bring the Companions back, so I doubt it's his plan to have Drizzt kill Catti-brie. That would make everything that has been done up until now a moot point. While I hate the state Drizzt is in right now (blame it on the Faeress, it was still random), he IS Drizzt, so... |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2016 : 21:57:08
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| I don't think he'll kill Cattie, but I think he might kill Entreri when he tries to stop him and shake him out of his condition. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2016 : 20:53:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron
I don't think he'll kill Cattie, but I think he might kill Entreri when he tries to stop him and shake him out of his condition.
I was honestly hoping Bob would explore that relationship more. Drizzt and Entreri strike me as a pair of brothers that don't get along very well, but might find common ground at some point in the future. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2016 : 21:08:43
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quote:
Originally posted by BenN
I've just finished it. Overall, I liked it a lot; familiar characters get some welcome life breathed into them, and some fun new ones too (I love the 'all-new' Yvonnel - she's awesome!). Plus, plenty of action & intrigue.
OTOH, I found Cattie-Brie to be pretty annoying & unsympathetic, in a prissy moralizing way (I guess she & Drizzt really are made for each other......). I don't really care if she ends up sitting on Kozah's Needle.
I can't repeat enough how much I liked Yvonnel; she's a lot more nuanced than other drow characters, and a lot more fun (reminds me a bit of Liriel, except more powerful & nastier). I hope that Bob doesn't kill her off.
I loved Yvonnel too. So much better than the old Matron Baenre and I likened her to Emperor Palpatine. I'm still trying to figure out what she is. What was the point in trying to tempt Drizzt to stay in Menzo or love her? Just to break him? I get the impression she might be the old Baenre reincarnated and possibly some sort of "daughter" or avatar type of Lolth combined. As the Chosen of Lolth and Drizzt the Champion of Lolth, those two having children seems like the stuff the apocalypse would be made of.
Now this is a stretch and The Spider Queen may be evil to the core, but what if she wants something she hasn't had since Corellon Larethian banished her: Love. Though given what we know of her, it's more likely she would try to breed the "good" out of the drow. I dunno, lots of fun stuff to think about. Can't wait for next installment! |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2016 : 21:13:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
As I posted in the other thread, Drizzt killing Demogorgon was the low point, and where Bob trolls longtime realms fans a bit.
I'd imagine Wizards told him to write it. Drizzt may be good, but there's no way he could have managed it without some Illithids Gone Wild action added in. Would have been fun to see Menzo get smashed up some as the entire city fights him, but I suppose that would eat up too much page count. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2016 : 21:22:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Now this is a stretch and The Spider Queen may be evil to the core, but what if she wants something she hasn't had since Corellon Larethian banished her: Love. Though given what we know of her, it's more likely she would try to breed the "good" out of the drow. I dunno, lots of fun stuff to think about. Can't wait for next installment!
She has already tried to do that with Wendonai and totally failed. She receives plenty of love, but doesn't give any. Her followers would do anything just to get a little bit of acknowledgement from her, but she treats them like disposable toys. If she truly wanted some love, she wouldn't have things like ''love is weakness'' in her dogma. If she showed a little willingness to become more reasonable, I'm sure that even her daughter would think about reaching for her. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2016 : 18:04:44
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I take it more that her followers generally love the power that she represents and doles out, not her, not really. Even for the males, she fosters their racial supremacy ideology.
I liked the book for the most part, although I found the Catti-Brie/Gromph scenario somewhat offputting and unbelievable. I honestly felt that it read like fanfiction. Also the characterization felt a little flat. Granted a theme of this book was that the characters were not quite themselves. Drizzt, Catti-Brie, Entreri, even Jarlaxle did't have a master plan. Still, I couldn't feel the characters come through so strongly. Entreri basically blew hot and cold in short bursts, only serving to bicker, briefly, with Drizzt and later to deliver short protests about Drizzt's eventual fate.
Also, the battle with Demogorgon was, in a word, unimaginative. He was treated essentially as a Kaiju with a couple of magic tricks, instead of a nigh-godlike being sitting at the pinnacle of the demon world. It was almost telling that Drizzt was essentially at his most sane when in close proximity with the creature that personifies madness. This was a real opportunity to put some horror into the story in an exciting and constructive way and Bob missed the boat completely. |
Edited by - Veritas on 12 Apr 2016 18:07:24 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2016 : 18:18:20
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| Yeah the Catti-brie-Gromph thing bothered me a lot. Both are above such pettiness, particularly Gromph. There was no point to it. If it was to show Catti-brie gaining a foothold over Gromph, then it was poorly chosen. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2016 : 03:48:32
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Just adding to my OP. With the way Tiago was finally defeated, that ranks as high as when Drizzt defeated Obould and Dantrag and Entreri on the Mountain my favorite battle endings. True they werent against epic foes like Demo or the Ghost King. But the satisfaction of those kills just was more. And the quips or gestures when Drizzt knew he won were great. Paraphrasing here but
"Zak would have beaten you"-Dantrag defeat
"As you cannot know mine"-As he shoots a poison crossbow arrow at AE
*shrugs- As he fires the oil of impact arrow at Obould
"Baubles, fairly earned but mastered(paraphrased). " As he proceeds to blow Tiago's head apart with Taulmaril.
Awesome
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2016 : 03:51:17
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| The fight between him and Tiago was better than the one between him and Demogorgan |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2016 : 13:49:13
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| The whole "fairly earned" thing regarding Drizzt's "baubles" annoyed me. I can't stand Drizzt as a character, he's just so damn sanctimonious. I was ok with it when he was saying that to Tiago to taunt him, but it seems like he actually *believes* that, when the fact is, some of his awesome items passed onto him much in the same way that Tiago got Orbcress and Vidrinath - more by chance than by merit. Taulmaril, the instrument of Tiago's defeat, was found pretty much by chance by the CotH, it could even be stated that Drizzt got that more easily than Tiago who had to find the plans for his weapons and get them forged. Not to mention, other than Icingdeath and his magical anklets, most of Drizzt's gear was bequeathed to him by friends or chance, and while that sort of sentiment is absent in drow society, Tiago receiving his gear from others really isn't much different than, for instance, Malchor bequeathing Twinkle onto Drizzt. |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2016 : 18:28:41
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
The whole "fairly earned" thing regarding Drizzt's "baubles" annoyed me. I can't stand Drizzt as a character, he's just so damn sanctimonious. I was ok with it when he was saying that to Tiago to taunt him, but it seems like he actually *believes* that, when the fact is, some of his awesome items passed onto him much in the same way that Tiago got Orbcress and Vidrinath - more by chance than by merit. Taulmaril, the instrument of Tiago's defeat, was found pretty much by chance by the CotH, it could even be stated that Drizzt got that more easily than Tiago who had to find the plans for his weapons and get them forged. Not to mention, other than Icingdeath and his magical anklets, most of Drizzt's gear was bequeathed to him by friends or chance, and while that sort of sentiment is absent in drow society, Tiago receiving his gear from others really isn't much different than, for instance, Malchor bequeathing Twinkle onto Drizzt.
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2016 : 18:31:10
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
The whole "fairly earned" thing regarding Drizzt's "baubles" annoyed me. I can't stand Drizzt as a character, he's just so damn sanctimonious. I was ok with it when he was saying that to Tiago to taunt him, but it seems like he actually *believes* that, when the fact is, some of his awesome items passed onto him much in the same way that Tiago got Orbcress and Vidrinath - more by chance than by merit. Taulmaril, the instrument of Tiago's defeat, was found pretty much by chance by the CotH, it could even be stated that Drizzt got that more easily than Tiago who had to find the plans for his weapons and get them forged. Not to mention, other than Icingdeath and his magical anklets, most of Drizzt's gear was bequeathed to him by friends or chance, and while that sort of sentiment is absent in drow society, Tiago receiving his gear from others really isn't much different than, for instance, Malchor bequeathing Twinkle onto Drizzt.
I felt this was more about the idea that Tiago had his incredible weapons (arguably more powerful than Drizzt's own) through the use of the Forge in Gauntlgrym. Drizzt unveiling his "buckle-bow" forged with aid of that very same Forge simply was a leveling of the playing field. Also he has accomplished more in combat than Tiago has (although still considerable). |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2016 : 18:50:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Merrith
I felt this was more about the idea that Tiago had his incredible weapons (arguably more powerful than Drizzt's own) through the use of the Forge in Gauntlgrym. Drizzt unveiling his "buckle-bow" forged with aid of that very same Forge simply was a leveling of the playing field. Also he has accomplished more in combat than Tiago has (although still considerable).
I understand what you're saying, and I think that Tiago's incredible weapons are definitely stronger than Twinkle at least. As just an ordinary frostbrand weapon, Icingdeath could've been weaker than Orbcress/Vidrinath, but we haven't yet seen a limit to its fire-defeating powers. With that in mind, Icingdeath seems on the same level as Tiago's weapons. Drizzt definitely earned Icingdeath through the defeat of the white dragon with Wulfgar, I don't dispute that.
However, I don't agree that Drizzt "earned" Taulmaril. That bow has always been a really OP weapon, and the CotH happened upon it without really doing anything to "earn" it per se. The same could be said of the belt enhancement to it. |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2016 : 16:58:47
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Drizzt was part of the group that broke into Mithral Hall to find Taulmaril. It took a lot of battle to get there.
Twinkle was a gift, but it's not so strong anymore. I'm not even sure if it's still magical. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2016 : 20:00:52
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| Twinkle probably isn't magical anymore. As for Taulmaril, I see your point. I would still contend that Drizzt didn't earn it though, because wasn't Catti-brie the one who discovered it and the one whom it sort of "accepted"? I say "sort of" because Taulmaril doesn't have any sentience, but I remember there being some sort of context about Catti feeling the rightness of it in her hands and as though it'd been waiting for a fitting owner to come along. Am I just hallucinating those things? >_> |
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Drizztsmanchild
Learned Scribe
USA
228 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 04:45:25
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You know there's also two other things that happened that arepretty significant if you ask me.
1. Artemis actually offering himself to die in Drizzt's place. And not for any type of gain to AE.
2. Jarlaxle openly threatening a Matron Mother. And not just any Matron Mother. The most powerful person in Menzo. Usually he works against them behind the scenes.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 04:59:26
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Artemis and Drizzt are essentially frenemies (or the perfect slash fiction pair lol). Anyway, in all seriousness, while their relationship is complicated, I think deep down, they care about one another.
Jarlaxle too cares for Drizzt, and I think he can openly threaten a matron mother because even the females know that if Bregon D'earthe wanted to, they could pose a serious threat to the matriarchy. Indeed, in some ways, they already do, which is why they are allowed to exist. Yeah, usually priestesses would eradicate threats, but BD is a -useful- threat. While the females may never openly admit it, they need BD. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
Edited by - CorellonsDevout on 15 Apr 2016 05:00:11 |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 08:18:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sno4wy
Twinkle probably isn't magical anymore. As for Taulmaril, I see your point. I would still contend that Drizzt didn't earn it though, because wasn't Catti-brie the one who discovered it and the one whom it sort of "accepted"? I say "sort of" because Taulmaril doesn't have any sentience, but I remember there being some sort of context about Catti feeling the rightness of it in her hands and as though it'd been waiting for a fitting owner to come along. Am I just hallucinating those things? >_>
I can sort of buy this, but we can't forget the century or so of deeds Drizzt had after Catti's death where he was using Taulmaril the entire time. If anyone has earned it at this point, it's Drizzt.
If we're really going to analyze it to this level, Tiago is lucky that he wasn't already killed by Drizzt in their first fight. In both instances, Drizzt had a plan for the shield's ability and executed it. Doum'wielle's intervention basically saved Tiago and reduced Twinkle to whatever it is now.
Another curious idea is who ends up with Tiago's weapons?
The reintroduction of Charon's Claw is strange to me as well. Both the fact it wasn't/couldn't be destroyed by the primordial, and that we're dragging Entreri's longevity back into question as being tied to the sword. Seems pointless for them to have that whole short story about him draining the life essence of a shade to extend his lifespan if they're just going to tie it into the sword again. |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 16:22:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Drizztsmanchild
You know there's also two other things that happened that arepretty significant if you ask me.
1. Artemis actually offering himself to die in Drizzt's place. And not for any type of gain to AE.
This was extremely annoying to me because of how out of character it is for Artemis. I'd be willing to accept it if we saw the character growth and progression that got to that point, but a big problem I have with a lot of Salvatore's "character growth" is that it isn't so much a process, but rather, abrupt changes in the status quo. It's like, bang! This character is suddenly this new way, which is totally different from the old way. It's jarring, to say the least.
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Artemis and Drizzt are essentially frenemies (or the perfect slash fiction pair lol). Anyway, in all seriousness, while their relationship is complicated, I think deep down, they care about one another.
That they care about one another is definitely what Bob is trying to get us to accept, but personally, it's something that I feel like was forced down my throat rather than making sense to me logically.
Don't even get me started on how disgusted I am by this slash pairing. >_> |
Edited by - sno4wy on 15 Apr 2016 17:00:14 |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 17:18:11
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| Entreri, Jarlaxle and most male drow see hope for themselves in Drizzt. That was Jarlaxles goal in bringing him back to Menzo: to give hope to more male drow. I was surprised by Entreri offer of sacrifice, but not too surprised. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 18:05:15
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For Entreri, I can see him not flinching when Drizzt touched his shoulder, sure, but it just didn't feel true to character when he was shouting at Yvonnel to take him instead of Drizzt.
Yes, Entreri feels that he owes a debt to Drizzt for Drizzt having come back to rescue him while he was captured in Q'Xorlarrin, but does that debt of gratitude extend so far as to change the very fundamentals of his nature? Entreri doesn't do things like willingly throw himself into situations where he's certain he'd die, especially since he'd finally gotten Dahlia back. Quite frankly, even with his whole fatalism thing going on, Entreri just isn't the type to offer his life in exchange for someone else's. We've been shown that he's come to like Drizzt, but he's not bonded to him like the Companions of the Hall are. It just feels pretty forced to me, what with Jarlaxle stating that they all wish they believe in what Drizzt believes -- really? I seriously hope that Bob's intention in that statement is that Jarlaxle et al want to believe that their existences are meaningful, but Drizzt comes with a whole lot of preachy sanctimony that I personally don't want to see in the other characters.
I feel like Entreri is being forced down a redemption path and that's very uninteresting to me. Bob seems to have this thing going where every popular character has to become a good guy. A "good guy" Entreri would just be like a grumpy sidekick whom makes occasional appearances and well, imo, that'd truly be a shame for the character he used to be. |
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Clegane
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2016 : 18:31:03
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I am not a fan of that type of redemption. It always feels to contrived for me. I do like redemption stories and characters who at times can be morally ambiguous if their is a consistency and natural development to it. Elaith Craulnober has always been that type of grey character, anti-hero I can buy in on.
Even though he may be try to believe he is completely and morally unrepentant, his story and actions have always been in conflict with that perception and the reader and character pov's are clearly in conflict. As his story has developed it's been a consistent journey ever since Elfshadow and is natural to the audience. |
Edited by - Clegane on 15 Apr 2016 18:35:54 |
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Merrith
Learned Scribe
135 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2016 : 15:40:16
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We've literally had multiple books leading up to this (at least the ones where Entreri was making a prominent appearance in) where Artemis' character has continued his slow turn towards...well, I don't know the right word for it, but certainly not the evil life he once led. He's obviously looking for something more, even if he doesn't quite believe in it yet. But he's known Drizzt represents something he is missing for awhile now.
I didn't find it all that shocking at all. Drizzt has risked himself on multiple occasions for Entreri now, and Entreri himself when traveling previously with Drizzt, Dahlia, etc put himself at risk for almost certain defeat at the hands of Tiago and his drow when they came looking for Drizzt at Port Llast.
Unless you skipped reading the last ~6-10 books with Entreri has featured in, should have seen this coming for a long time now. Not like he's a saint or anything (or ever will be, most likely), but the respect for Drizzt has been there and growing for awhile now, and vice versa from Drizzt to Entreri.
The more puzzling thing for me was Entreri's casual brush off of his problems with Jarlaxle for his part (forced or not) in his enslavement to the Netherese through Charon's Claw. Before this book, the last I remember was a grudging decision to not simply try to murder Jarlaxle, and a slight hint in Archmage that he had returned to Jarlaxle's band, although with the obvious intent of rescuing Dahlia. |
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Clegane
Seeker
65 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2016 : 15:47:01
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| I know the redemption has been developing through several books, it's just hard for me to accept someone can go from a completely soulless murderer to a point they are self-sacrificing. Has it happened in our world? Very rarely and then because the individual had some deeply personal religious awakening and at that point they and their lives and personality don't even resemble the past one. |
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sno4wy
Senior Scribe
USA
466 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2016 : 16:22:47
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*reaches through the internet tubes and heartily shakes Clegane's hand, going in for a hug even before thinking better of it ;P*
I can't convey my feelings any better than you have already on this matter so I'll let you take it from here. XD
I agree that the lack of the Jarlaxle and Entreri reconciliation was very very poorly handled. I didn't even bother bringing it up because I'm just that exasperated that after 100 Realms years and 10 our world years that they just get back together with only a mention of their previous tensions. There's so much stuff there that just got glazed completely over that I can't even express how frustrating that whole thing is. ._. |
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Gareth
Seeker
United Kingdom
55 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2016 : 17:14:40
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I've not finished the book yet, I will have by the end of the day, but I just cant get the mentions of the ruins of Shade from my mind. I'm even wondering if I missed a section in The Herald where the enclave flew back to the desert to crash.
Sorry, just had to get that out the system.
Otherwise, am enjoying the book :)
Gareth |
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He better not!( MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR MAESTRO HERE)
