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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 17:12:23
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The Saurials of the Lost Vale - a Brainstorming Session
The reopening of the D.M.s guild to allow others to publish and sell forgotten realms material has gotten me thinking.
It lit a fire based on an old passion.
Namely the Saurials
I remembered reading the Finder Stone's trilogy a long time ago in a world far far away (called Faerun).
I always loved the idea of an alien dinosaur humanoid species that communicated with scents, had unlimited class levels in 2e, and dinosaur paladins.
I played a Hornhead Saurial wizard in 2e and he was one of my legacy characters.
So I did some followups to see what had been done.
I was disappointed with the results. One Dragon Article, one web expansion in 3rd edition and that was pretty much it.
4e was worse. Thanks to Netheril, it looked like they had pretty much been written out of the world (driven underground is pretty much the canon equivalent of "being put on a bus.")
So I sat down and decided, what could I do with the concept?
The Saurials have been on Faerun for about 200 years. I wanted to connect them to the Forgotten Realms so they would be not easily written out in the future as well as explain what had happened during this time.
Additionally Paleotology has been a passion of mine and concepts have changed so much since the finder stones trilogy was written.
I want to give it that 2e sourcebook feel, and will try to keep it to public domain pics for the artwork (because quite frankly, I can't draw worth a darm).
I've done some stewing, but would love to set this thread for a bunch of crazy ideas as well as any crazy dinosaur facts to see where it leads?
Any interest?
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Edited by - shades of eternity on 03 Apr 2016 19:40:34
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 17:34:39
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| Out of interest, do you plan on detailing the saurials who lived on the Malatran Plateau as well? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 17:55:51
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Out of interest, do you plan on detailing the saurials who lived on the Malatran Plateau as well?
I will mention them, but honestly, not too terribly familiar with them.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well if you do, my advice would be to give them two separate origins. Magical races could easily have been created multiple times in separate instances by different beings. That way we don't need yet another portal story as to hy they exist in two far off places.
Given all the sarrukh activity in the area I would have made the saurials an experiment of theirs but I don't think they knew about sarrukh at the time of the finder trilogy. Still it's something I might touch on with a netheril sourcebook (not that I will be attributing their creation to netheril).
hmm we must have been on the same wavelength
Alrighty here's my base conceptual model for this.
1. The Saurials were originally a slave race of the Sarrukh, and they were made from Thunderers (the Forgotten Realms' term for dinosaur )
2. They were made for specific tasks which is why different Thunderers were used.
3. They filled the humanoid niche during that ancient time.
4. There was a sundering like event that split it off from the rest of the realms and became it's own dimension (still working on a proper name).
5. The Saurials eventually threw off their chains and dominate their own dimension, not unlike humans. Whether other races exist in the Saurial home world, remains to be seen.
6. The Saurial home world isn't so much a look back in time as an alternative timeline. it is also a place to pull back favorite forgotten realms monsters from previous editions that fit the overall theme.
7. Saurials breed quickly, live as long as Dwarves and while generally a good race, have become an invasive species since they returned to the forgotten realms.
8. Since the Sundering, they have returned to the Lost Vale, which they discovered empty, save for the symbol of the Zhenterium on a tree in the south (drawing upon my love of history by parodying the colony of Roanoke) and have come out of the wood work in far greater numbers then expected.
9. They are determined to never be driven out again from their home away from home.
10. Moander was a minor splinter of Shar (not unlike what happened with Selene and Mystra) that is dead, but his god fragments are now being fought over by Ghaunadaur, Loth, and Shar for their own schemes.
11. Grypht (the Hornhead Saurial in the Finder Stone's trilogy) is still there, but very old and will not be around for too much longer. It is unsure whether the Lost Vale will survive without him. It's like losing Elminister for Shadowdale. Heck one of the quests I'm leaving is trying to find a way to increase his lifespan that he'll actually accept.
How's that for a base? |
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Edited by - shades of eternity on 03 Apr 2016 17:58:16 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 18:43:11
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| Was the "dimension" that they came from ever definied or specified? If not, I think Abeir itself could make sense. |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 19:05:30
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I like putting it on the same planet as abeir, but will put it far enough to not be easily accessible. for exmaple put the 4e abeir in the northern hemisphere and the Saurial continent in the south.
As far they understand, at most they will run into mammal life that is rodents and bats.
If they run into standard humanoids, their nickname will be "rounded rodents." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 22:06:24
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I, personally, would not connect the saurials to Abeir. If it was me, I'd have them flee to another world entirely, where they thrived until Moander came along and pulled a group of them back.
Another thought: the Shades didn't really find the Lost Vale. The Lost Vale swapped places with some part of Abeir, during the Spellplague; the Shades found where the Lost Vale was and the handful of saurials that missed the shift. After the Sundering, everything went back to normal. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 22:08:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Was the "dimension" that they came from ever definied or specified? If not, I think Abeir itself could make sense.
To the best of my knowledge, no... And what little we know of it doesn't match anything we know about Abeir; which is part of why I'm reluctant to connect them. Also, if Abeir was just for the primordials, how did a deity find a way to get thru that particular limitation? |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 22:46:50
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Technically, spinning the Saurials as emigrants from Toril makes sense in itself, since there's no mention of when the gate(s) between Toril and Saurials' homeworld were created.
Though leaves more questions, such as the reason to make a gate to this particular world - how it was used?.. And creates new problems, such as why there are no traces of Saurials left on Toril.
But it's kind of cliché. Not as bad as demonweave and other second-generation copycats, but seriously - "Toril is center of the Multiverse and source of everything", "minions were created and rebelled", and use of the Sarrukh as The Universal Plot Hook like some authors used Lolth or Shar?..
Why not to do this in even slightly more complex way?
For example: one of the more curious and planewalking of Sarrukh could have been searching for advanced reptilian life, found a world with some (then-) savages, some of the Sarrukh had plans for this and prepared to create a colony on the other side and convert locals to their cause, but then they were busy with one of their wars and this all led nowhere. |
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Edited by - TBeholder on 03 Apr 2016 22:50:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 23:34:24
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Technically, spinning the Saurials as emigrants from Toril makes sense in itself, since there's no mention of when the gate(s) between Toril and Saurials' homeworld were created.
Though leaves more questions, such as the reason to make a gate to this particular world - how it was used?.. And creates new problems, such as why there are no traces of Saurials left on Toril.
But it's kind of cliché. Not as bad as demonweave and other second-generation copycats, but seriously - "Toril is center of the Multiverse and source of everything", "minions were created and rebelled", and use of the Sarrukh as The Universal Plot Hook like some authors used Lolth or Shar?..
Why not to do this in even slightly more complex way?
For example: one of the more curious and planewalking of Sarrukh could have been searching for advanced reptilian life, found a world with some (then-) savages, some of the Sarrukh had plans for this and prepared to create a colony on the other side and convert locals to their cause, but then they were busy with one of their wars and this all led nowhere.
I like that idea even better.  |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2016 : 23:55:07
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
I like putting it on the same planet as abeir, but will put it far enough to not be easily accessible. for exmaple put the 4e abeir in the northern hemisphere and the Saurial continent in the south.
As far they understand, at most they will run into mammal life that is rodents and bats.
If they run into standard humanoids, their nickname will be "rounded rodents."
I agree, making them from Abeir makes sense. It would explain why some are down in Malatra (maybe an earlier sundering/crossover). It would also fit with the idea that some around here have put forth that Moander is actually a "primordial" or "elder elemental evil" of some sort who attained "godhood" as an aftereffect similar to the elemental lords. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 02:07:14
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I agree that Abeir makes sense as the reason for Moander to know about them and have an interest in them. Perhaps the Malatran saurials were trasnported to Toril during the first Sundering and may or may not be corrupted by Moander to this day. I confess I know little about the Living Jungle campaign.
As a weird alternative, you could make them the base breeding stock for the khaasta in "Serpent Kingdoms", created and corrupted by Demogorgon a long while back and weave in the sarrukh that way. Just thinking out loud.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 03:19:25
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I dunno, if you assume Moander to be a pan-spheric deity, then you don't have to bother with Abeir.
You could also say that one of his followers just happened to find the saurials, and that's how he knew. Or Phalse told him. Or, after Dragonbait had been captured, they interrogated him and figured out where he came from.
I, personally, am really reluctant to attribute much of anything to Abeir. Part of it is, admittedly, my dislike of the entire concept of Abeir.
But also part of it is that having the saurials from there makes it seem like it's not much harder to get from Toril to Abeir than it is to get from Toril to Sigil, or from Toril to Earth. And my thinking is that if Ao separated the two worlds so that one was someplace else entirely, leaving no one (aside from the gods) aware of its existence, than it shouldn't be just a hop, skip, and jump from one to the other. If it was that simple, why wasn't there more traffic between the worlds before? Why didn't the primordials and gods continue their ancient conflict? |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Apr 2016 03:20:31 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 05:10:29
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One of the reasons I thought of Abeir was my minds eye vision of what Abeir is like. I don't know if I'm conflating the words "primordial" with "primeval" or not, but I always got the impression its a "Lost World" type setting, rife with dinosaurs and such. Like one big Chult with dragons. I guess that's just my vision, with no real lore basis behind it, but that's what made me think of it as a good homeland for the saurials.
Oh yeah, and Moander as a primordial turned god really really works for me. he always seemed so much different than the other gods. It's either primordial or Far Realm.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But also part of it is that having the saurials from there makes it seem like it's not much harder to get from Toril to Abeir than it is to get from Toril to Sigil, or from Toril to Earth. And my thinking is that if Ao separated the two worlds so that one was someplace else entirely, leaving no one (aside from the gods) aware of its existence, than it shouldn't be just a hop, skip, and jump from one to the other. If it was that simple, why wasn't there more traffic between the worlds before? Why didn't the primordials and gods continue their ancient conflict?
I don't want to derail the thread, but related to this discussion, where in the universe IS Abeir supposed to be anyway? I know Spelljammer hasn't exactly been supported in a number of editions, but can you take your commandeered illithid nautilus for a little ride on over (my guess is no)? |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 07:24:24
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Malatran Saurials
-----------------
Descended from creatures similar to dinosaurs, Malatran Saurials are not native to Malatra, but claim to come from some other realm or world, kidnapped from their home and forced to work as slaves in the Valley of Spirits (an area in the south east of the Malatran Plateau reputed to be cursed). Their gods appear to have abandoned them, causing them to suffer spiritually and they have become lacking in hope. Their priests have abandoned their gods and instead, now worship nature spirits. Though their 'paladins' have lost their powers, they still hold to their code of honour.
It is widely known that they fled from some disaster in the Valley of Spirits that involved them dividing into two factions: the Whitehearts and the Blackflames - named after their respective leaders. The saurials do not openly speak of this disaster and few outside their race know what occurred - just that the saurials are ashamed of their actions and it was one of the few times that they had ever killed each other. Regardless, they joined together as a single tribe of sixty individuals along the banks of the River of Lost Idols (the river that flows into the Valley of Spirits) in order to survive, but still wear markings that denote their faction to remind them of their mistakes.
They are allied with local yuan-ti and a sect of chaotic evil leopard hengeyokai but are themselves not hostile to outsiders - though they avoid prolonged contact. Before they established themselves as a tribe, they came into conflict with the aggressive and suspicious tribe of the Rudra, a Nubari (human) tribe who also lived along the river. Though they are now at peace, the Rudrans still act derisively towards the saurials. Malatran saurials try to maintain a code of ethics, despite their questionable allegiances, which were likely made purely for the purpose of survival.
The tribe is lead by a young Hornhead named Trueblood, the former wizard apprentice of Whiteheart, though Trueblood is still untested as a leader. He is aided by a Bladeback shaman named Starr, a Flyer rogue named Quickwing and a Finhead fighter named Strongarm.
Tattoos are common among malatran saurials, especially among their mages. They rarely wear more than a loincloth or simple, loose cloaks. Every saurial does however own a robe that they make and decorate themselves. The appearance of these robes always has a deep, personal significance, and is stripped from them if they are ever expelled from the community.
Malatran saurials are culturally introverted. Although they are polite and tolerant of other species, they do not offer visitors lodging and outsiders are banned from viewing any of their rituals. This is despite the fact that proven friends earn strong loyalties from saurials. They are also willing to trade and assist their neighbours but are resolute in their wish to be left alone by all.
Finally, malatran saurials have developed a sign language that suggests communication with races not yet discovered by the other species of the Malatran Plateau and they also possess magical devices similar to shells that attach to the ear and provide translations of any language being spoken - though rumour has it that only Whiteheart was capable of creating these devices and the secret was entirely lost with his death. They also wield strange weapons from the unusual to the unknown, often with short grips and barbs along edges (like blade-back flails) not seen among other races on the plateau, this this also means that they suffer when attempting to wield weapons not of their own design. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 11:07:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But also part of it is that having the saurials from there makes it seem like it's not much harder to get from Toril to Abeir than it is to get from Toril to Sigil, or from Toril to Earth. And my thinking is that if Ao separated the two worlds so that one was someplace else entirely, leaving no one (aside from the gods) aware of its existence, than it shouldn't be just a hop, skip, and jump from one to the other. If it was that simple, why wasn't there more traffic between the worlds before? Why didn't the primordials and gods continue their ancient conflict?
I don't want to derail the thread, but related to this discussion, where in the universe IS Abeir supposed to be anyway? I know Spelljammer hasn't exactly been supported in a number of editions, but can you take your commandeered illithid nautilus for a little ride on over (my guess is no)?
By the time they thought of Abeir as a separate world, Spelljammer had long since been kicked to the curb.
However, we do have the Realmspace supplement and its failure to mention Abeir. Plus, I believe it's stated somewhere that Abeir is in another dimension (which is, to me, another very weak explanation, given all our prior info about planes and such). |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 12:52:26
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Thanks guys, this has been very informative. :)
I'm going to make the Saurial home world an Australian sized continent and will be deliberately vague where it is, but will add rumours so it's up to the gm to decide if it's on Toril, Abeir or in it's own pocket dimension.
If you need an excuse to explain where it is, blame the Sundering why it moved. :p.
There will be Sarrukh (or were and left a legacy) on the Saurial's home world mainly because they make such great villains.
I've also gotten some feedback from other sources. Other then Chult (where Saurials canonically have a presence), The Saurials do not ride dinosaurs. It's the equivalent of an human riding an ape. All Saurials are sentient, even if they aren't humanoid (and honestly, I'm a sucker for a Sauropod Teamsters Guild). :D
This does mean they ride stuff that is birdlike or reptile (and at least one clan of wyvern riders).
Saurials, while they lean on the good side, will ultimately have equal capacity for good and evil, for the purposes of culture, as they are usually the human analogues in their realm. Because honestly, nice guys that keep to themselves are kind of boring for an entire race.
The overall main theme of the Saurial's home world is plants vs dinosaurs. :D
I'm seriously considering, keeping their history on the mythic side of things. They have a history longer then Elves and Dwarves have been on Toril, so it gives serious wiggle room. It also allows for all of these ideas. plus I've had one request to tie it into Netheril's past and it's easy enough to have a summoning/mystical creation done by Thaeravel at a later date that doesn't break the timeline.
Thanks for the Malatra info. :)
If you want listing, or want to read what I've written so far, pm me your name and your email and I'll add a share to what I've done so far.
I'm seriously considering expanding beyond the four canonical races just to add some variety. I have a list of roughly what I see and will post if there is interest.
one last question
I want to do a hex map of the saurial's home world, and was wondering if anybody had used hexographer for their own material and would love their insights before I take the plunge.
http://www.hexographer.com/
Thanks all. :) |
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Edited by - shades of eternity on 04 Apr 2016 12:57:17 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2016 : 14:53:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
One of the reasons I thought of Abeir was my minds eye vision of what Abeir is like. I don't know if I'm conflating the words "primordial" with "primeval" or not, but I always got the impression its a "Lost World" type setting, rife with dinosaurs and such. Like one big Chult with dragons. I guess that's just my vision, with no real lore basis behind it, but that's what made me think of it as a good homeland for the saurials.
Oh yeah, and Moander as a primordial turned god really really works for me. he always seemed so much different than the other gods. It's either primordial or Far Realm.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
But also part of it is that having the saurials from there makes it seem like it's not much harder to get from Toril to Abeir than it is to get from Toril to Sigil, or from Toril to Earth. And my thinking is that if Ao separated the two worlds so that one was someplace else entirely, leaving no one (aside from the gods) aware of its existence, than it shouldn't be just a hop, skip, and jump from one to the other. If it was that simple, why wasn't there more traffic between the worlds before? Why didn't the primordials and gods continue their ancient conflict?
I don't want to derail the thread, but related to this discussion, where in the universe IS Abeir supposed to be anyway? I know Spelljammer hasn't exactly been supported in a number of editions, but can you take your commandeered illithid nautilus for a little ride on over (my guess is no)?
That's kind of the same view that I have of Abeir. Lost Worlds setting, and I'd have Sarrukh there (some transferred, others didn't), as well as the Aearee and batrachi races. I'd have no humans in those areas, but spirit folk might be fairly common in certain areas, possibly as a result of some earlier crossovers. That being said, much like how Toril has sections that aren't human dominant but rather dominated by other races, I'd bet Abeir has some out of the way pockets that are actually either dominated or at least having a nice subsection of the population being human. After all, when the people of Unther transferred back, perhaps they left behind some portion of their populace much like the dragonborn did.
The one thing I've thought since they did this sundering is that there have probably been a lot more of these occasional crossovers, but they've been in other areas of the world, such that Faerun may not have truly known about it. Islands may have come and gone (specifically, the old second edition Jakandor, Island of war fits this scenario very well). Portions of Kara-tur, Zakhara, Maztica, Katashaka, and Anchorome may have been replaced previously. The satellites that Orbit Toril even may have been a result of these crossovers (though that would have to be a good story for me to like it).
Hell, we've all wondered about the mysterious continent of Osse.... what if that entire continent is from Abeir, and it was settled by human immigrants making inroads? For that matter, we've only met one "human" from Osse.... who says he's actually human and not say a spirit folk or genasi or even some form of hengeyokai shapechanger that never revealed himself in the novel? The magic over there may be strongly reminiscent of spirit shamanism and/or incarnum/totemist magic.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2016 : 03:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno, if you assume Moander to be a pan-spheric deity, then you don't have to bother with Abeir.
You could also say that one of his followers just happened to find the saurials, and that's how he knew. Or Phalse told him. Or, after Dragonbait had been captured
Or, Moander already knew about this specific gate.
After all, if the Abomination moved through the Malatran gate (it's reasonable to assume the gate is not far from there), it would end up in an area with more green matter and less high-powered magic, where NO ONE knew what it is and where it had no chance to trip some old Elven alarm. Then everyone would be well and truly screwed. So maybe it simply didn't have extensive knowledge of how to get from point A to point B, just of this one gate?
And how did those Harpers know about the Saurials' world in the first place?..
It all boils down to "this gate was not too much of a secret". After all, the Lost Vale was an Elven place, and is right on the border of Anauroch - and we know Moander was worshipped by some Netherese and some Elves. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 00:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno, if you assume Moander to be a pan-spheric deity, then you don't have to bother with Abeir.
You could also say that one of his followers just happened to find the saurials, and that's how he knew. Or Phalse told him. Or, after Dragonbait had been captured
Or, Moander already knew about this specific gate.
After all, if the Abomination moved through the Malatran gate (it's reasonable to assume the gate is not far from there), it would end up in an area with more green matter and less high-powered magic, where NO ONE knew what it is and where it had no chance to trip some old Elven alarm. Then everyone would be well and truly screwed. So maybe it simply didn't have extensive knowledge of how to get from point A to point B, just of this one gate?
And how did those Harpers know about the Saurials' world in the first place?..
It all boils down to "this gate was not too much of a secret". After all, the Lost Vale was an Elven place, and is right on the border of Anauroch - and we know Moander was worshipped by some Netherese and some Elves.
Throw in a factor that some have wondered about with the time of troubles being a precursor to the spellplague which transferred more of Abeir... its kind of interesting that Moander and the Saurials both appear in 1357.... I don't recall the actual events of the novel that lead into this though. What exactly happened again?
In 1357 from GHotR
— Moander, god of corruption, is accidentally woken from a magical slumber
deep beneath the ruins of Yûlash. He causes much devastation before being
banished. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 00:52:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I dunno, if you assume Moander to be a pan-spheric deity, then you don't have to bother with Abeir.
You could also say that one of his followers just happened to find the saurials, and that's how he knew. Or Phalse told him. Or, after Dragonbait had been captured
Or, Moander already knew about this specific gate.
After all, if the Abomination moved through the Malatran gate (it's reasonable to assume the gate is not far from there), it would end up in an area with more green matter and less high-powered magic, where NO ONE knew what it is and where it had no chance to trip some old Elven alarm. Then everyone would be well and truly screwed. So maybe it simply didn't have extensive knowledge of how to get from point A to point B, just of this one gate?
And how did those Harpers know about the Saurials' world in the first place?..
It all boils down to "this gate was not too much of a secret". After all, the Lost Vale was an Elven place, and is right on the border of Anauroch - and we know Moander was worshipped by some Netherese and some Elves.
Throw in a factor that some have wondered about with the time of troubles being a precursor to the spellplague which transferred more of Abeir... its kind of interesting that Moander and the Saurials both appear in 1357.... I don't recall the actual events of the novel that lead into this though. What exactly happened again?
In 1357 from GHotR
— Moander, god of corruption, is accidentally woken from a magical slumber
deep beneath the ruins of Yûlash. He causes much devastation before being
banished.
Hmmm, and given that this "Lost Vale" used to be where Tarkhaldale was before it became lost..... might these Saurials have been an instance of the the Abeir/Toril crossover happening on a small scale in 1357 DR? That could be a possibly interesting retcon. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 02:22:28
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When the Sundering Mk.2 was first mooted by WotC, I brainstormed with Eric Boyd re Sundering-type events having occurred throughout Toril's history as Abeir intersected with it and the veil between the two worlds weakened from time to time.I thought that stuff like the appearance of Araumycos could be explained by it coming from Abeir and other similar events - the saurials is a great example of how this idea could have been used retroactively and prospectively. Ultimately, WotC decided not to provide a detailed look at the Sundering other than the "here and now" of the advent of 5E and its novel series. We did have grand plans though ...
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 03:53:14
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
When the Sundering Mk.2 was first mooted by WotC, I brainstormed with Eric Boyd re Sundering-type events having occurred throughout Toril's history as Abeir intersected with it and the veil between the two worlds weakened from time to time.I thought that stuff like the appearance of Araumycos could be explained by it coming from Abeir and other similar events - the saurials is a great example of how this idea could have been used retroactively and prospectively. Ultimately, WotC decided not to provide a detailed look at the Sundering other than the "here and now" of the advent of 5E and its novel series. We did have grand plans though ...
-- George Krashos
Grand plans that are gone forever? Or simply until you two team up with shades to make the best DMS Guild product that exists?  |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 04:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
its kind of interesting that Moander and the Saurials both appear in 1357....
Uh... because Moander brought them to Toril?
Also, my own derp: Moander brought those saurials to the Lost Vale via gate to Tarterus.
Which leaves the question about how did it know about that world anyway, but is some evidence that if there are direct links, it possibly didn't knew about them at all. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 04:41:59
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yeah
I think this is a great way to bring back a long forgotten lower plane race: the Demodands.
They consider the Saurial Home Plane a great place to take a break. :p
edit: need confirmation on something. are their only 3 types of demondands and they wrote it so you can't make more? |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
Edited by - shades of eternity on 06 Apr 2016 12:16:09 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 21:54:13
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
When the Sundering Mk.2 was first mooted by WotC, I brainstormed with Eric Boyd re Sundering-type events having occurred throughout Toril's history as Abeir intersected with it and the veil between the two worlds weakened from time to time.I thought that stuff like the appearance of Araumycos could be explained by it coming from Abeir and other similar events - the saurials is a great example of how this idea could have been used retroactively and prospectively. Ultimately, WotC decided not to provide a detailed look at the Sundering other than the "here and now" of the advent of 5E and its novel series. We did have grand plans though ...
-- George Krashos
Yeah, if it were carried through that Moander being released and this small portion transferring over somehow was some kind of "trigger/precursor" for the spellplague and ToT (and maybe Ao really kicked the gods out of the heavens so that he could do some kind of preparatory change that he couldn't do while they were up there.... telling the gods a lie to serve his own ends..... damn, that would be an interesting lie..... oh, yeah, Leira never died too )
But, I wouldn't propose this without researching that novel again. Its been like 30 years since I read it, and honestly, all I recall is Alias meeting the saurial paladin, and I don't recall exactly how Moander was released... how they found out about the other saurials... etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 22:06:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
[quote]Originally posted by shades of eternity
I agree, making them from Abeir makes sense. It would explain why some are down in Malatra (maybe an earlier sundering/crossover). It would also fit with the idea that some around here have put forth that Moander is actually a "primordial" or "elder elemental evil" of some sort who attained "godhood" as an aftereffect similar to the elemental lords.
man at times like this I wish we had a primal power source in 5e.
Wardens feel pitch perfect for a certain type of Saurial. :D
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check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 22:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
When the Sundering Mk.2 was first mooted by WotC, I brainstormed with Eric Boyd re Sundering-type events having occurred throughout Toril's history as Abeir intersected with it and the veil between the two worlds weakened from time to time.I thought that stuff like the appearance of Araumycos could be explained by it coming from Abeir and other similar events - the saurials is a great example of how this idea could have been used retroactively and prospectively. Ultimately, WotC decided not to provide a detailed look at the Sundering other than the "here and now" of the advent of 5E and its novel series. We did have grand plans though ...
-- George Krashos
Yeah, if it were carried through that Moander being released and this small portion transferring over somehow was some kind of "trigger/precursor" for the spellplague and ToT (and maybe Ao really kicked the gods out of the heavens so that he could do some kind of preparatory change that he couldn't do while they were up there.... telling the gods a lie to serve his own ends..... damn, that would be an interesting lie..... oh, yeah, Leira never died too )
But, I wouldn't propose this without researching that novel again. Its been like 30 years since I read it, and honestly, all I recall is Alias meeting the saurial paladin, and I don't recall exactly how Moander was released... how they found out about the other saurials... etc....
Moander was magically imprisoned beneath Yûlash and could only be freed by someone that had not been born -- Alias met that qualification and thus freed him.
As for the saurials, if I remember correctly, they were kidnapped from their homeland, force-marched thru Tarterus, and then taken to the Lost Vale. It was not a direct connection. |
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shades of eternity
Learned Scribe
288 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2016 : 22:55:22
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| So what is in Tarterus that could conceivably leak into the Saurial's home world to make their lives miserable? :p |
check out my post-post apocalyptic world at www.drevrpg.com |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11691 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2016 : 00:22:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
When the Sundering Mk.2 was first mooted by WotC, I brainstormed with Eric Boyd re Sundering-type events having occurred throughout Toril's history as Abeir intersected with it and the veil between the two worlds weakened from time to time.I thought that stuff like the appearance of Araumycos could be explained by it coming from Abeir and other similar events - the saurials is a great example of how this idea could have been used retroactively and prospectively. Ultimately, WotC decided not to provide a detailed look at the Sundering other than the "here and now" of the advent of 5E and its novel series. We did have grand plans though ...
-- George Krashos
Yeah, if it were carried through that Moander being released and this small portion transferring over somehow was some kind of "trigger/precursor" for the spellplague and ToT (and maybe Ao really kicked the gods out of the heavens so that he could do some kind of preparatory change that he couldn't do while they were up there.... telling the gods a lie to serve his own ends..... damn, that would be an interesting lie..... oh, yeah, Leira never died too )
But, I wouldn't propose this without researching that novel again. Its been like 30 years since I read it, and honestly, all I recall is Alias meeting the saurial paladin, and I don't recall exactly how Moander was released... how they found out about the other saurials... etc....
Moander was magically imprisoned beneath Yûlash and could only be freed by someone that had not been born -- Alias met that qualification and thus freed him.
As for the saurials, if I remember correctly, they were kidnapped from their homeland, force-marched thru Tarterus, and then taken to the Lost Vale. It was not a direct connection.
AHHHHH, gotcha. Ok, so there was a layover before they got here, so it wasn't that they transferred here directly.
Hmmm, you know the weird thing that popped in my head when you said he had to be freed by someone who had not been born.... my instant thought was primordials weren't born. That being said Alias was created, but she's different than say a construct in that she does have a soul (or so we believe). Its kind of like Alias is a kind of primordial... ah, may be stretching the term too much. Got a nagging thought in my head now though... not sure where its leading. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2016 : 02:13:45
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quote:
Originally posted by shades of eternity
So what is in Tarterus that could conceivably leak into the Saurial's home world to make their lives miserable? :p
What could leak from Tarterus into a Prime world and not make the locals' lives miserable?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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The Saurials of the Lost Vale - a Brainstorming
