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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3245 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2016 :  20:32:24  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've always been a fan of act first, apologise later.

That way you can lead by example and if your serial fiction sells by the bucket loads (which I don't doubt it will) they may consider allowing it for everyone else.

By default bean counters will always say no. Until you show them how many beans can be acquired then they see the light.

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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2016 :  20:38:55  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's truly sad that the FR novel line has come to this. I miss the days when there were more authors and more novels. I may not have liked 4e, but even then, there were more novels being released.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2590 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2016 :  21:01:58  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

FYI, the Reclamation thread has been removed. I'm trying to get the go-ahead to post it as serial fiction through DM Guild, and don't want the partial online availability of the first installment to be a deterrent to publication.

As much as I hate to say it, things don't look promising. I haven't received any answers to my queries, and in most cases, no answer IS an answer. I'll give it another try and a couple more weeks.



This is just so disappointing. WotC is slowing (actually, not slowly at all) killing the release of new FR lore, they have launched the DMGuild for that exact reason, they should be *encouraging* authors like you who love the Realms and are willing to still write for the setting, despite all the BS.

If they say that you (and therefore everyone else, I guess) can't publish a serial fiction, then I'll know that FR fiction is truly basically dead, and that WotC just doesn't give a flying anymore.



Well, no one has said that. At least not yet. I won't be surprised is someone does, though. There are strong arguments to be made AGAINST a project of this nature.

It's my understanding that WotC has an exclusive agreement with Random House to distribute novels and novellas. Let's say that serial fiction is considered to be an exclusion (and that's a BIG "if"...) and people start submitting longer stories. Someone at WotC and/or DM Guild is going to have to evaluate those stories on a case-by-case basis to ensure that they don't violate the distribution agreement. But here's the thing: There IS no one at WotC to do this. The fiction department is gone, and upcoming books are being edited by freelancers, so how would they handle the flow of potential stories? Hire people to review them? That strikes me as highly impractical and almost certainly financially unviable. The only thing that makes the DM Guild financially feasible (if indeed it proves to be) is the understanding that fan-written material will NOT be officially reviewed and approved.

That's just one of the potential issues that pops into mind, and since I'm a freelance outsider, I'm sure people who know the situation can think of dozens more. So if RECLAMATION as serial fiction can't happen, I will be disappointed, but I won't be surprised or upset.



Honestly, I can't help but be upset. I understand the points that you make, but WotC have teased FR fans with various marketing stunts, just to go full ''LOL NOPE!!'' afterwards.

The DMGuild is full of products, and some may easily violate other terms (like using 3rd pp material), so WotC should already have someone that gets paid to make sure that no ''illegal'' content is sold.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't the difference between a novel and a piece of serial fiction be determined by word count or something like that? In that case, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for whoever already has the duty to check the DMGuild products, to also check word count and see if it's higher than the minimum required for a work to be considered a novel(la).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 26 Apr 2016 21:07:47
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29792 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2016 :  21:06:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I've always been a fan of act first, apologise later.

That way you can lead by example and if your serial fiction sells by the bucket loads (which I don't doubt it will) they may consider allowing it for everyone else.

By default bean counters will always say no. Until you show them how many beans can be acquired then they see the light.



And she can also get herself blacklisted by them. I think I'd prefer to play it safe.

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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 26 Apr 2016 :  21:56:49  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I've always been a fan of act first, apologise later.

That way you can lead by example and if your serial fiction sells by the bucket loads (which I don't doubt it will) they may consider allowing it for everyone else.

By default bean counters will always say no. Until you show them how many beans can be acquired then they see the light.



And she can also get herself blacklisted by them. I think I'd prefer to play it safe.



That's not an issue, really. What concerns me is twofold: 1) the notion of spending a huge amount of time writing a story and having it pulled after the first installment and 2) reader unhappiness if a story was pulled after the first or second section.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1394 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2016 :  02:28:24  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the fiction series is held, it means the moonblades' article will be held as well?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2016 :  05:32:45  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm not able to find it, so I'll ask - is the Reclamation thread going to remain pulled, or will it be reposted here? I'm one that would love to see the DMs Guild allow this, but if not, I sincerely hope that you'll place it back here for all of us to enjoy. :-)

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2016 :  13:48:26  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir

If the fiction series is held, it means the moonblades' article will be held as well?



I won't procède on the moonblade RPG supplement until I have an answer of Reclamation, but I haven't ruled out doing the moonblade piece. One possibility that comes to mind is folding most of the story told in Reclamation into the RPG product. The Pathfinder modules include short serial fiction, so there's industry precedent.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2016 :  13:50:03  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

I'm not able to find it, so I'll ask - is the Reclamation thread going to remain pulled, or will it be reposted here? I'm one that would love to see the DMs Guild allow this, but if not, I sincerely hope that you'll place it back here for all of us to enjoy. :-)



Fair enough. If I can't publish Reclamation through the DM Guild, I may include it in the Moonblade RPG product. If I decide not to go that route, I will repost the excerpts to Candlekeep.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5240 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2016 :  01:02:52  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
well, whatever you publish Elaine, just make sure to let us know here. I'm definitely buying.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1394 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2016 :  12:12:03  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm also buying it, no matter its format.

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 28 Apr 2016 :  12:47:38  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

quote:
Originally posted by Joran Nobleheart

I'm not able to find it, so I'll ask - is the Reclamation thread going to remain pulled, or will it be reposted here? I'm one that would love to see the DMs Guild allow this, but if not, I sincerely hope that you'll place it back here for all of us to enjoy. :-)



Fair enough. If I can't publish Reclamation through the DM Guild, I may include it in the Moonblade RPG product. If I decide not to go that route, I will repost the excerpts to Candlekeep.


Thank you. As I've said before, when you release something, I'll be more than happy to purchase it.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2016 :  13:16:51  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Got an answer, albeit second-hand: For now, DM Guild is publishing RPG titles only. So I need to give some thought to whether (and how) I should incorporate the rest of the moonblade saga into an RPG project, or whether to shelf this idea.

I can understand why they wouldn't want to venture into fiction. That's a huge can of worms. Perhaps things will change in the future. I'll be keeping an eye on developments.

ec
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2590 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2016 :  13:40:43  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's extremely disappointing, and upsetting too. WotC won't publish novels, and on top of that people are not allowed to publish stories. WotC is basically killing FR fiction. So much for all their fanfare about the post-Sundering Realms.

EDIT: However, now that I think about it, I've seen fiction published on the DMGuild. It was the work of a scribe (Seethyr), written as a supplement for his Maztica CS. It hasn't been pulled (yet), so there might be hope.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 02 May 2016 14:16:06
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2016 :  13:45:54  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In the course of fleshing out the world of Ilsevele's Cormanthyr and the Elves that follow her for my own graphic novel project, I've had the fortune of engaging with another FR author and game designer, Richard Baker. If anyone can help bridge the world of novel and RPG adventure, it's him. He's proven to be a great resource, should you decide to adapt the work you've already done I highly recommend getting in contact with him.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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Seethyr
Learned Scribe

USA
344 Posts

Posted - 02 May 2016 :  23:09:10  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

That's extremely disappointing, and upsetting too. WotC won't publish novels, and on top of that people are not allowed to publish stories. WotC is basically killing FR fiction. So much for all their fanfare about the post-Sundering Realms.

EDIT: However, now that I think about it, I've seen fiction published on the DMGuild. It was the work of a scribe (Seethyr), written as a supplement for his Maztica CS. It hasn't been pulled (yet), so there might be hope.



I'm very glad they haven't but I think it might be because I tried to connect it to some crunchy supplements as best I could. I hate having to tailor art to the rules as such, but it was the best I could do given the conditions that have been set. I am still thankful that it's still up there.

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BenN
Learned Scribe

Japan
335 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2016 :  06:58:26  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

In the course of fleshing out the world of Ilsevele's Cormanthyr and the Elves that follow her for my own graphic novel project, I've had the fortune of engaging with another FR author and game designer, Richard Baker. If anyone can help bridge the world of novel and RPG adventure, it's him. He's proven to be a great resource, should you decide to adapt the work you've already done I highly recommend getting in contact with him.


Are you planning to offer your graphic novel on the DMG? It sounds very interesting.
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2016 :  11:49:36  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BenN

Are you planning to offer your graphic novel on the DMG? It sounds very interesting.

The only thing I've offered - that is relevant to this thread - is to do the art and cover illustrations for Reclamation and the Moonblades projects. That includes any RPG adaptations should Elaine decide to go that path. Non-RPG material isn't allowed so all other narrative-only projects are, by extension, in the same boat as Reclamation right now.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.

Edited by - Adhriva on 03 May 2016 11:53:47
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2016 :  15:48:31  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is awesome that you're getting to work with Richard Baker, Adhriva! What an honor!

Anyway, so serial fiction is currently not being accepted? Hmm, I may have to rethink some things, too. But as other scribes have said, whatever you end up releasing, Elaine, I will buy it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
100 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2016 :  16:34:38  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

That is awesome that you're getting to work with Richard Baker, Adhriva! What an honor!
Pick his brain is more like it.

I know his group has alot of 5e experience and it sounds like they've dissected the system pretty well by now. They have their own projects (Thule and Schemes) but a joint venture with Elaine on the DMG could prove to be a profitable course if action. I don't know how much game design experience Elaine has on her own, but by the very nature of the medium you do require a group if some sort for development - far more so than more narrative mediums like fiction, film, or comics that are more set in stone as it were. The fact you don't know who the heroes are and that they change party to party (all assuming they stay on the rails) is but one of the many ways the medium can be difficult to navigate well from a story perspective, nevermind the munchkins! Someone who has walked both worlds, even if you just pick their brain, is invaluable. Even more so if that person has a development group or studio, because it is a group oriented medium. You can only go so far by yourself in it.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.

Edited by - Adhriva on 03 May 2016 17:02:14
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1770 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2016 :  16:42:15  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Still pretty awesome

Sweet water and light laughter
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Nacopa
Acolyte

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2016 :  18:42:17  Show Profile Send Nacopa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What a bummer about Reclamation. I do think that the powers that be should work with authors to publish at least one module collecting mini adventures that feature prominent characters (seeing as Bob consulted for Out of the Abyss). An "anthology" of mini adventures wherein you can meet Elaith (and perhaps it's based in Waterdeep and he's tied to ALL the stories) and I can imagine at least one of the adventures including a moonblade fetched or found. I think you'd have a lot of customers for that. In fact, you could introduce the moonblade supplement with a one-off adventure that melds lore with gameplay, and I feel that would pique the interest of WotC. Especially when such an offering does well in the DMsGuild. That, of course, would also require some heavy 5e game understanding.

By the way, as a player I would love to be hired by The Serpent to retrieve somethings lost in dangerous places. He is made to be the perfect npc, and I think DMs and players should get to know him a little better!

Edited by - Nacopa on 03 May 2016 18:44:29
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2246 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2016 :  13:18:46  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Nacopa

What a bummer about Reclamation. I do think that the powers that be should work with authors to publish at least one module collecting mini adventures that feature prominent characters (seeing as Bob consulted for Out of the Abyss). An "anthology" of mini adventures wherein you can meet Elaith (and perhaps it's based in Waterdeep and he's tied to ALL the stories) and I can imagine at least one of the adventures including a moonblade fetched or found. I think you'd have a lot of customers for that. In fact, you could introduce the moonblade supplement with a one-off adventure that melds lore with gameplay, and I feel that would pique the interest of WotC. Especially when such an offering does well in the DMsGuild. That, of course, would also require some heavy 5e game understanding.

By the way, as a player I would love to be hired by The Serpent to retrieve somethings lost in dangerous places. He is made to be the perfect npc, and I think DMs and players should get to know him a little better!



Marc Tassin just announced that he'll be launching a Kickstarter campaign in August for a 5E campaign setting for Aetaltis. So far, this setting has an adventure available through Drive-Thru RPG and an anthology that was released in April. The production value of both these products is exceptionally high, and I really like the world. It's unapologetic old-school fantasy, very reminiscent of 2nd Ed Forgotten Realms. I'm thinking of pitching in with the play testing, which would give me some hands-on experience with 5E game mechanics.

Stay with me--I am going somewhere Candlekeep-relevant with this.

At this point, I would not feel comfortable writing an RPG adventure. A source book, sure. I've been knee-deep in RPG lore since 1990. But the notion of running a game to play test a 5e setting holds a lot of appeal--and opens up potential directions for DMG projects.

I have never been a DM. It's a very different type of storytelling. We'll see how it goes.
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1394 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2016 :  19:47:10  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good luck then, Mrs. Cunningham!

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2874 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2016 :  20:45:42  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's bad a$$ Elaine!

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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