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Doge
Seeker
73 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Mar 2016 : 19:45:30
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Is Uthgar still a deity in 5e? I know he's been relegated to an exarch of Tempus in 4e but SCAG doesn't list him in The Faerunian Pantheon on page 21. On the other hand, Valkur, also an exarch of Tempus is in the said list of deities. AFAIK Uthgardt barbarians worship Uthgar through their different beast totems. So if Uthgar isn't a deity, who are the Uthgardt actually worshipping? Who's the power behind the totems?
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2016 : 19:52:16
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| IIRC, He is in the SCAG, but not in the list. When the book talks about the ''People of Uthgar'', it says that their priests worship him, and use the totems as some kind of focus of their faith and magic. For some reason, they didn't include all the deities in the book in the Faerunian Pantheon list. Lurue is another example of a goddess that appears in the book--and is described as currently active--but not in the list. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 07 Mar 2016 19:53:42 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2016 : 01:19:12
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| They definitely excluded the gods predominantly worshipped by monsters with some human followers like Bahamut, Lurue, Nobanion, Sseth, and others. As for Uthgar, p 94 of the SCAG notes that shamans and priests of Utghar "revere their ancestor-god and also invoke the names of their totems as intercessors with [him]," so I'd say he's still a god. They talk about how he only values strength as part of his ethos, so war domain seems appropriate given that and his past iterations. That said, a totem barbarian with some sort of shaman background and a magic initiate feat might be totally sufficient to capture the feel of his clergy. |
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moonbeast
Senior Scribe
USA
522 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2016 : 02:52:18
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Yes, I'd also say so, since the SCAG mentions him several times as being ancestor-worshipped by the Uthgardt tribes. If nothing else and if no other 5E specifics are forthcoming…. I'd personally categorize him as either a Demigod or Lesser Deity in my campaign. His legend is that he was once a mortal man, did astounding feats of awesomeness, vanquished scary terrifying monsters, and subsequently earned reverence and following as a man-god (i.e. demigod, literally).
As time went on, it's possible he could have been elevated to full godhood, but since the mechanics of D&D religion pegs "Greater Gods" as those who (typically) have plenty of worshippers (e.g. Moradin, Corellon, Lathander, Odin, Zeus, etc) …. I doubt that he amassed enough tribal followers to earn the strength of either Lesser Deity or Greater Deity. In fact the opposite seems to have happened. The Uthgardt tribes remain few, and several of the original tribes have already gone extinct. |
Edited by - moonbeast on 08 Mar 2016 02:56:11 |
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Doge
Seeker
73 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2016 : 18:48:40
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| Well that's good news. Glad to see old Uthgar retain his divinity. Also, does anyone know if this Blue bear totem the Blue bear tribe is worshipping is the true Blue bear? Last I heard the totem was defeated and absorbed by Malar. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2016 : 19:11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The question should be, was uthgar ever a deity.
Yes the deity books say he was but he never manifested or sent avatars, communicated through proxies (the totem animals), and just because someone receives spells doesn't mean a god exists (that rule only came in in 3rd edition).
If the deity books say that, then (in canon, and for now, at least) he is. Not all deities communicate with mortals in the same way, after all. Now, if we want to speculate why he acted like that, or if there was something else posing as Uthgar, that's a whole different matter. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 08 Mar 2016 19:15:25 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2016 : 19:52:06
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Canon means less and less each year and that's not a bad thing. The DMs guild is a strong move towards reinterpretation of canon by different people and diversification of the setting.
Canon still has the same role that it had in the previous editions, as WotC explicitly stated that nothing on the DMGuild is canon, unless they say so. But yes, 5e is more about freedom of interpretation, although the ''official'' FR still exist.
quote:
The strongest thing about 5e is how it has reinterpreted the role religion plays in the realms by moving away from direct interaction with the gods and removing their micro management of mortal affairs and moving towards a more hands off, mythological, and philosophical role of religion (although the start of this movement was in opposition with the sundering).
So if you cannot speak to a deity, cannot meet him, and have no proof of his existence except for a few totem poles and shamans then does he truly exist?
There is still some direct interaction: the gods still speak to mortals and manifest to them, through various means, but they don't come down to talk to or direct their followers, although some did that during the Sundering--i-.e. it's not really mythological (the FR didn't suddenly become Eberron), rather closer to Ed's original idea, as far as I can tell.
As for Uthgar, he has been a deity for all the previous editions, so we can speculate about the reason why he communicates with mortals differently, or that he is actually some kind of mask for another entity, and those can make for interesting discussion. However, the ''official'' version is that he's a god, unless WotC or Ed reveal otherwise. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2016 : 05:42:06
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The question should be, was uthgar ever a deity.
Yes the deity books say he was but he never manifested or sent avatars, communicated through proxies (the totem animals), and just because someone receives spells doesn't mean a god exists (that rule only came in in 3rd edition).
Powers & Pantheons says he has manifested his avatar twice, although on a quick skim I don't see what those two incidents were. It also mentions that he manifests in visions of his axe Foestriker, which can speak with his voice (among other things).
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/
My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2016 : 16:52:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
The strongest thing about 5e is how it has reinterpreted the role religion plays in the realms by moving away from direct interaction with the gods and removing their micro management of mortal affairs and moving towards a more hands off, mythological, and philosophical role of religion (although the start of this movement was in opposition with the sundering).
So if you cannot speak to a deity, cannot meet him, and have no proof of his existence except for a few totem poles and shamans then does he truly exist?
well, except that they didn't even Start to practice what they preached and there's hardly a novel released since 5e where The deities are not more Front and center than ever before
Now that i think of it, was there even a single 5e novels without a deity directly speaking to someone (and those are just the least way if deities acting in the novels, physical manifestation seem to be a renewed trend among them) |
Edited by - Mirtek on 10 Mar 2016 16:55:15 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Is Uthgar still a deity in 5e?
