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Jacinth Greyfox
Acolyte
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 14:51:57
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Can anyone direct me to where i can find some information about what constellations are visible from Faerun? My players are currently heading along the Golden Way from the East towards Two Stars where the stars of East and West meet. As one of the characters in the group is a Swami and Astrologer he is certain to ask questions about this .....
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The Throne or the Tomb! |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 17:05:04
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| Well, the best thing I've found would be this. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 21 Mar 2004 17:05:31 |
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Jacinth Greyfox
Acolyte
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 19:39:02
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| Thanks Shadowlord! That should satisfy the Swami. |
The Throne or the Tomb! |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 21 Mar 2004 : 19:51:16
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No problem.  I live to serve... (Vhaeraun, that is...  ) |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 16:48:48
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| Hmm, this looks useful. I'll have to give it a closer look when I have a moment to do so. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 16:53:48
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| You're welcome, too. I have more, so if you're interested, don't hesitate to ask. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 17:54:30
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Such as? A map of the Torilian celestial sphere? Orbital periods of the planets in the system?  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 18:59:22
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Nay, just more information about Realmspace, is all...  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 11:52:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jacinth Greyfox
Can anyone direct me to where i can find some information about what constellations are visible from Faerun? My players are currently heading along the Golden Way from the East towards Two Stars where the stars of East and West meet. As one of the characters in the group is a Swami and Astrologer he is certain to ask questions about this .....
Can't you just tell him it's cloudy  |
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Jacinth Greyfox
Acolyte
United Kingdom
35 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 18:30:41
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Sadly the Swami of Gujarat is the sort of character who consults his Horopscope over even the most trivial matters ( do were pursue the fleeing ogre bandits or not?). It couldnt stay cloudy for the duration of his travels through the West .......or could it?hmmm |
The Throne or the Tomb! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 09:15:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Such as? A map of the Torilian celestial sphere? Orbital periods of the planets in the system?
Being serious for a moment, there are materials that detail such aspects of the Realms celestial 'backyard' that you have mentioned. It will take some work, but much of this information can be gleaned from the late-20th century SJ Mailing List Archives, which just happen to fill an archived folder on my HD...
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 16:49:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
It will take some work, but much of this information can be gleaned from the late-20th century SJ Mailing List Archives, which just happen to fill an archived folder on my HD...
What doesn't? If it's free (to you, at the very least) and deals with Dungeons & Dragons, you're bound to have it, aren't you. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2005 : 07:48:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Such as? A map of the Torilian celestial sphere? Orbital periods of the planets in the system?
Well, that's what I'm searching for. I have been satisfied with "Stars and Constellations of Faerun" for years, but now that I'm about to run a globe-spanning (and crystal sphere hopping) campaign, I need astronomical charts for the skies of Toril. I'm sure that Kara-Tur, Zakhara, and Maztica have different constellations, just as Europe and the Middle East, India, China and Meso-America have different interpretations of star fields.
Since many d20 supplements are using the "astrologer" method of "hanging" spells on constellations, it would be nice to know what they look like to different peoples, which ones are in the sky at different seasons, etc. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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tauster
Senior Scribe
Germany
399 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2005 : 10:15:40
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quote:
Originally posted by tauster
the section about elven star constellations at myth-drannor.net might be of some help:
http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-semberholm/Culture/constellations.htm
Thank you. It's good information, but the graphic links are non-functional (and I am guessing that some Spelljammer product has pictures of the planets). I saw a page earlier with a graphic of the Color Spray nebula and of Selûne's Tears, but it's a a full set of sky maps that I am searching for.
It is not an easy task to create an accurate star map, so I doubt that more than one or two people have attempted them for Toril. A web page for Spelljammer might have some helpful drawings, but I didn't recall any of the sky seen from the surface of Toril, only Toril and the other planets seen from space. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Fletcher
Learned Scribe
USA
299 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2005 : 20:54:52
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This information is great! I really appreciate it, I had a much poorer compilation than this to work off of. I truly appreciate the work that people have gone through to assemble this information. It is a load of work! Again my deepest thanks for this information.
And thank the multiverse of dieties and powers for this site and is scribes depth of knoweldge. |
Run faster! The Kobolds are catching up! |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 00:01:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
the section about elven star constellations at myth-drannor.net might be of some help:
http://myth-drannor.net/DlabraddathNet/z-semberholm/Culture/constellations.htm
Thank you. It's good information, but the graphic links are non-functional (and I am guessing that some Spelljammer product has pictures of the planets). I saw a page earlier with a graphic of the Color Spray nebula and of Selûne's Tears, but it's a a full set of sky maps that I am searching for.
It is not an easy task to create an accurate star map, so I doubt that more than one or two people have attempted them for Toril. A web page for Spelljammer might have some helpful drawings, but I didn't recall any of the sky seen from the surface of Toril, only Toril and the other planets seen from space.
I just got Realmspace, and I must heap praises on "Slade." That is a darn fine piece of work! I had heard once, vaguely, a long, long time ago, about the glyphs surrounding Toril, but reading the account of them in Realmspace made me feel like a real explorer, filled with wonder. I hope that when I introduce my characters to space that they will have the same feeling of marvel that I had reading the supplement. (Now if only I had the Spelljammer rules ... and a chart of the constellations!) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2005 : 01:07:09
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It should be noted that the same stars, based on culture, are reported to repersent different things. At times based on description I see Orins belt, but based on science it is imposible for me to see the stars that make up that belt. Connect the dots is cultural deriven. Where one might see a dog others (adding horns) can see a dragon.
The best map only provides dots, that can be connected at will. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 08:21:32
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
(Now if only I had the Spelljammer rules ... and a chart of the constellations!)
It's not the Adventures in Space boxed set, but they're close enough... Try here - http://spelljammer.org/rules/
Thank you for the link. I had copied the whole browser page a couple of weeks ago; I'll probably use their rules if I decide to go the Spelljammer route.
I believe their site also has an animated globe of Toril which is VERY interesting, in that it shows just what small percentage of the planet is made upf Faerûn versus Everything Else. Faerûn looks as though it's proportionally equivalent to Europe + the Mediterranean littoral on Earth -- a fairly small piece, but influential far out of proportion to its size.
I'm sorely tempted to write a novel about a sea voyage to Anachrome. Some Spelljammers have already been there and a little is known of it, but there has been no movement towards it as there has been towards Maztica. (Being in the Southern Hemisphere, its constellations will be unlike those known in Maztica, Faerun, Zakhara, or Kara-Tur.)
I wonder how many jaded "planars" have ever fully explored even one Prime Material World? There are wonders upon wonders, marvels upon marvels waiting to be discovered everywhere! |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 08:48:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I wonder how many jaded "planars" have ever fully explored even one Prime Material World? There are wonders upon wonders, marvels upon marvels waiting to be discovered everywhere!
"Bah! Why bother with the primitive Prime worlds when there's a whole multiverse out there just waiting to be explored with untold riches to plunder."
That's the response you'd likely get from a lot of planars. They're only interested in ONE thing -- what they can take from the planes and sell for profit.
Then of course there are the "explore-types", who like nothing more than to spend their entire lives cataloguing every inch of the crystal sphere in which they were born. Being the master scholars they are, these planars find the origins of local natural phenomena more fascinating than the acquisition of wondrous riches from other worlds.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 16 Jun 2005 08:49:10 |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2005 : 13:32:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I wonder how many jaded "planars" have ever fully explored even one Prime Material World? There are wonders upon wonders, marvels upon marvels waiting to be discovered everywhere!
"Bah! Why bother with the primitive Prime worlds when there's a whole multiverse out there just waiting to be explored with untold riches to plunder."
That's the response you'd likely get from a lot of planars. They're only interested in ONE thing -- what they can take from the planes and sell for profit.
Then of course there are the "explore-types", who like nothing more than to spend their entire lives cataloguing every inch of the crystal sphere in which they were born. Being the master scholars they are, these planars find the origins of local natural phenomena more fascinating than the acquisition of wondrous riches from other worlds.
Maybe some planars simply think that the prime is a bland and colorless place. I quote a friend who plays exclusively in the outer and inner planes(second edition, he thinks 3rd edition planes are horrible, great tree "shudder")="the prime is not nearly as fun as the planes. It`s boring". |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2005 : 15:07:23
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A Faerunian astrology is potentially rich material that obviously could have a lot of fun applications in a fantasy setting.
Near as I can tell from Realmspace, the planets of the Torilian solar system have regular orbits around the sun. And in order for sea navigation to be feasible on Toril's oceans, I assume the stars are fixed.
For an astrology you need an elciptic, a plane upon which the planets concentrically orbit around the solar system's star. From the earthbound vantage the ecliptic is a path followed by the Sun, Moon and planets arcing across the heavens from east to west. The Sun, Selune (Moon), and four visible planets are much faster moving bodies than the constellations. To the stargazer the luminaries and planets appear to pass through the constellations, which in turn remain fixed in the background along the ecliptic. But which constellations are visible in the night sky changes according to the season, as Toril makes its annual orbit around the Sun.
I guess as things are currently defined, it's up to the DM to be creative with this material. So I figured it might be intriguing to have Toril's planets and stars correspond with real world astronomy such that a real world ephemeris can be consulted to plot their courses.
In the following I have relied upon the following material: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/stars.htm
Planets
Sun - Sun
Selune - Moon
Coliar - Mercury
Karpri - Venus
Anadia - Mars
Chandos - Saturn
Constellations of the Torilian Zodiac
The Sun's Signpost - Aries
The Swordsman - Taurus
The Chamealeon - Gemini
The Double Daggers - Cancer
The Lion - Leo
The Jester - Virgo
The Horn - Libra
The Serpent - Scorpio
The Archer - Sagittarius
Velessea - Carpicorn
The Wizard's March - Aquarius
The Triton - Pisces
These correspondences aren't perfect, but they're symbolically pretty close. In some cases, such as the Jester, the specific month is mentioned, and that accounts for its placement.
If you want to take it a little further you can factor in the role of elements of fire, earth, air, and water, and planetary rulerships.
Fire
Plantary Ruler: The Sun, Anadia
The Caltrop
The Lion
The Archer
Earth
Plantary Ruler: Chandos
The Swordsman
The Jester
Velessea
Air
Planetary Ruler: Coliar
The Chamaeleon
The Horn
The Wizard's March
Water
Planetary Ruler: Selune, Karpri
The Double Daggers
The Serpent
The Triton
And similarly you can have the corresponding astrological system of detriment, exaltation, and fall. And planetary aspects.
The Harptos calendar of 30 day months and 360 days per year doesn't precisely match the real world Gregorian calendar, but once again it is close enough to approximate. Just use the real world calendar, and have the Torilan dates match it, eg, Hammer = January, Alturiak = February, etc.
So now all you have to do to introduce this into your campaign is to check a real world ephemeris for which planet is in which constellation (in the real world), and make the translation (to Toril).
The Faerunian astrological archetypes don't have to be precisiely the same as their real world counterparts. Indeed, imho it would more fun to elaborate on them in Toril's fictional world. Make them unique.
But anway, now you have a readymade system for plotting the locations of planets in constellations in the Forgotten Realms. |
Edited by - Lemernis on 01 Dec 2005 15:44:42 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2005 : 17:34:43
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One point: your comment about the Calendar of Harptos seems to indicate that you're overlooking the special days that fall between months.
Midwinter falls between Hammer and Alturiak.
Greengrass falls between Tarsakh and Mirtul.
Midsummer falls between Flamerule and Eleasis. Once every four years, Midsummer is followed by Shieldmeet.
Highharvestide falls between Eleint and Marpenoth.
The Feast of the Moon falls between Uktar (not Ukta, which I still can't figure out when is! ) and Nightal.
As an aside... If you map out the Calendar of Harptos against the real-world calendar, setting Hammer 1 to be the same as January 1, then today is the Feast of the Moon. |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2005 : 18:56:32
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Yeah, it's just something to be able to let the actual planets do the work for you if you want to simulate a working model for a Torilian astronomy/astrology. You could work in the various holidays, sure.
Below is a bit more detailed overview of the correspondences between the Torlian constellations I selected and the real world zodiac. This may not square up well with the holidays for the various deities, but again the main purpose is to place the planets in particular signs.
The Sun's Signpost
This constellation is formed by three converging lines of stars, each with a cluster of stars at its outward end, or "point." Where the three lines come together is due east. To humans, these stars are also known as the Arrows of the Gods, or the Sun's Signpost. The elves call this constellation "Adarivael," and hold it sacred to Solonor Thelandira.
The nomads of Anauroch call the Caltrop At'ar's Arrows, and believe that they are three fiery arrows launched by the sun goddess, to clear and mark her way (as the sun rises here).
Ruler: Anadia
Element: Fire
Elemental Deity: Kossuth
Associated Archetypes: Lathander
Aries
21st March/Ches - 20th April/Tarsakh
The Swordsman
Also known as "The Warrior" or "The Sentinel," this constellation shares the same traits in cultures across Faerun; loyalty, guardianship, battle, freedom. Many legends and myths have been attributed to the Swordsman through the ages, although most recent human ones tend to center around the exploits of Torm or Tempus. In the Moonshaes, the Swordsman is called Cymrych Hugh, and is believed to be the soul of the legendary hero, placed in the heavens by the Earthmother.
Similarly, the elves have many myths about the Swordsman; the most popular is that the Swordsman was Auranamn, the first elf, who fought at Corellon's side during the great battle with Gruumsh. Although Auranamn died in that battle, Corellon lifted his soul up and placed it among the heavens, to spend eternity watching over the elven race.
Ruler: Chandos
Element: Earth
Elemental Deity: Grumbar
Associated Archetypes: Torm, Tyr, Helm, Tempus
Taurus
20th April/Tarsakh - 21st May/Mirtul
The Chamealeon
Among the cities of the North, the constellation known as the Gorgon is generally agreed to come from the myth of the hero Uthgar, who once wrestled and killed a great gorgon with his bare hands, making the lands of the Savage Frontier safe for his peoples to settle.
Further south, the constellation shifts slightly, and is known to the nomads of the Shaar (and through them, the rest of the South) as the Chamaeleon, the shifty trickster of the gods who eternally pesters Uerdyl the Lion (the Swordsman constellation) as it follows him through the heavens.
Ruler: Coliar
Element: Air
Elemental Deity: Akadi
Associated Archetypes: Mask, Brandobaris, Uthgar
Gemini
22nd May/Mirtul - 21st June/Kythorn
The Double Daggers
Located in the western sky, this constellation is two fuzzy clusters of blue-white stars, which appear as two side-by-side crescents or arcs in the sky, points downward. True west can be found exactly halfway between the two arcs - heading "straight between the eyes."
In the Sword Coast North, the Daggers are known as "The Eyes of the Watching Woman," and in the western Heartlands men speak of "where Selune looks back." To the Bedine of Anauroch, the Daggers are known as "The Two Jambiyas," or the "Eyes of Elah." Similarly, the elves know this constellation as "The Eyes of Uelaereene" (named after the long-ago Queen Uelaereene of Evermeet), and the halflings of Luiren connect the two arcs and call it "The Gull."
Ruler: Selune
Element: Water
Elemental Deity: Istishia
Associated Archetypes: Shar, Helm, Auril
Cancer
22nd 21st June/Kythorn - 22nd July/Flamerule
The Leopard
This animal-shaped constellation is known by a different name to almost every culture on Faerun. In the Gulthmere, it is known as Nobanion, the Great Lion; in the Shaar, it is the Leopard; in the North, it is commonly referred to as Asglyn the Wolf, the loyal companion of Gwaeron Windstrom. To the Rashemi and Aglarondans, it is the vigilant Narnos the Dog; further south in the Old Empires, it turns into Ghastis, the savage Jackal.
The demi-humans, for their part, do not seem to recognize the constellation, and so have no names for it. However, for the elves, part of the Lion is used for Elael, the Songsmith (a censtellation based on an ancient elven fable about a bard who crafts a song so pure and sweet that even the gods are humbled).
Ruler: Sun, Anadia
Element: Fire
Elemental Deity: Kossuth
Associated Archetypes: Nobanion, Siamorphe
Leo
23rd July/Flamerule - 22nd August/Eleasias
The Jester
This constellation shines brightest in Eleint, especially around Higharvestide. It is known as The Jester to humans and halflings; to elves, this constellation is called The Dancer, and in recent years it has become associated with Eilistraee, the Dark Maiden (at least on the mainland. On Evermeet, elves have been known to react violently at any suggestion that the Dancer has become "corrupted" by "drowish notions").
Ruler: Chandos
Element: Earth
Elemental Deity: Grumbar
Associated Archetypes: Lliira, Sharess, Eilistraee, Shiallia
Virgo
23rd August/Eleasias - 23rd September/Eleint
The Horn
A grouping of several stars in a V-formation. To ancient, primitive cultures, the symbol of a horn represented good fortune, wealth, and fertility. Thus, it is believed that the Horn figured prominently in early Waukeen-worship, especially among the societies of Amn, Tethyr, and the Western Heartlands. For the elves, the Horn is known more poetically as Shansibal, the mythic Cornucopia, and is sacred to the priesthood of Aerdrie Faenya (similarly, the halflings call the grouping Sheela's Bosom, after the halfling deity of feasting, revels, and romance).
Most interestingly, both the dwarves and the orcs refer to the constellation as The Dagger, and see it as much more of a martial portent. To orcs, especially, the Dagger is sacred, as it is seen as the manifestation of Ilneval, the god of war.
Ruler: Coliar
Element: Air
Elemental Deity: Akadi
Associated Archetypes: Chanteau, Waukeen, Tymora, Sune, Eldath
Libra
24th September/Eleint - 23rd October/Marpenoth
The Serpent
The name of this serpent-shaped constellation is ancient, so ancient that only a few sages and astronomers know its origins or meaning, and most simply call it the Serpent. The constellation was named by the inhabitants of ancient Raurin, before even the mighty empires of Unther and Mulhorand were born. In their legends, Maerilzoun was a huge, evil serpent that would one day descend from the skies at the end of the world to devour the sun (today, that figure is known as Dendar the Night Serpent, an Elder Elemental Evil). In the Empires of the Sands, the Serpent is looked upon favorably by thieves, assassins, mages, and others who practice their black arts by night. To the nomads of the Shaar, the Serpent is the godly counterpoint of Uerdyl, the Lion (personified by the Swordsman constellation).
Ruler: Karpri
Element: Water
Elemental Deity: Istishia
Associated Archetypes: Tiamat, Garagos, Talos, Cyric, Hoar, Malar, Beshaba, Talona, Loviatar, Gargauth
Scorpio
24th October/Marpenoth - 22nd November/Uktar
The Archer
More commonly called the Archer, this constellation is often seen as a companion to the Swordsman, whom he faces across the nighttime sky (a major exception is the people of Thay, whose myths hold that the Archer is Rivalyn, a warrior famed for his part in defeating the first Mulhorandi invasion of Thay. The Thayans believe that Rivalyn gives unending chase to the Swordsman, called Amentira after the pharoah who launched the invasion, across the heavens).
The elves also call this constellation Labraen, and each elven enclave seems to have their own legends and stories about him.
Ruler: Anadia
Element: Fire
Elemental Deity: Kossuth
Associated Archetypes: Mielikki, Gwaeron Windstrom
Sagittarius
23rd November/Uktar - 21st December/Nightal
Velessea
This female-shaped constellation is of major importance to the silver elves of Faerun, as they believe it represents Angharradh, the tripartite goddess of Sehanine, Aerdrie Faenya, and Hanali Celanil. To humans, the constellation has a much less-important designation as Velessea, a powerful witch long famed in the North for her untiring battle against the hordes of goblinkin, and her timely aid of travellers and the needy.
Ruler: Chandos
Element: Earth
Elemental Deity: Grumbar
Associated Archetypes: Ilmater, Shandakul
Capricorn
22nd December/Nightal - 20th January/Hammer
The Wizard's March
A grouping of three stars known collectively as The Wizard's March. Although the name of the constellation (and, to a lesser extent, the names of the individual stars), have passed into common lore among the peoples of Faerun, it is believed that their origins lie to the east, in the lands of Rashemen and ancient Raumathar. The myths of these lands feature several stories about Ulazimir, Iziaslau, and Rahnieda, a trio of powerful mages said to have wandered the lands, defending people from monsters, brigands, and other enemies, while dispensing wisdom and advice to local rulers.
Ruler: Coliar
Element: Air
Elemental Deity: Akadi
Associated Archetypes: Azuth, Mystra, Oghma, Denier, Savras, Gond
Aquarius
21st January/Hammer - 19th February/Alturiak
The Triton
To humans, this reclining figure is known as the Triton, mainly due to the trident he holds in his upraised hand (this holds true in most cultures, although the name varies; in the region around the Alambar Sea, the constellation is "Poseidon"; in Calimshan, "Bhalaene the Sea King"; to the people of Sossal, it is Ulutiu).
The elves have named this constellation Sashelas, after the god of sea elves. Two stars to the left of the constellation have the names of Tilvadar and Tambaun, named after Deep Sashelas' two loyal dolphin companions.
Ruler: Karpri
Element: Water
Elemental Deity: Istishia
Associated Archetypes: Umberlee, Valkur
Pisces
20th February/Alturiak - 20th March/Ches |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 01 Dec 2005 : 21:05:09
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An ephemeris is available online here:
http://www.ephemeris.com/ephemeris.php
and although it isn't necessary to enter longitude and latitude for the above site, here is a site that provides that as well:
http://www.mapsofworld.com/lat_long/index.html
Anyway, for example the planets on today's date December 1st, 2005:
Sun and Moon are conjunct in Sagittarius
Mercury is in Scorpio
Venus is in Capricorn
Mars is in Taurus
Saturn is in Leo
translates to the following under this system, by which the Faerunian astrologer could surmise the following portents:
The Sun in the Archer - highly favorable for rangers, hunters, and trackers
Selune in the Archer - favorable time for to travel; highly favorable for a search or expedition
Coliar in the Serpent - very favorable for thieves and assassins!
Karpri in Velessea - unfavorable for change, difficulty adapting, obstacles to transformation; unfavorable for alchemists and mages
Anadia in the Swordsman - very favorable for warriors
Chandos in the Leopard - stable--or at least unchanging--conditions for rulers, leaders (which could be a bad thing if change is desired)
You could also factor in the aspects (favorable or unfavorable angles) formed between the planets to cook up more portents.
Anyway, you get the idea. Could be fun material to work with.
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Edited by - Lemernis on 06 Dec 2005 11:52:10 |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2005 : 10:08:38
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Well, I like it.
I like it alot, actually. It follows real world patterns for consistency, but still retains much of the "secondary-world verisimilitude" (as Faraer would probably say ) to mark it as Of The Realms, and not just generic fantasy.
And I especially like the "associated archetypes" sections. Lends itself to lots of plot hooks, and shadowy religious cults, and lost temples that can only be found when the light of a certain planet shines through a certain constellation it does.....
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AJA
YAFRP
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2005 : 12:18:50
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Just to round this out, here is a bit more information on the planets:
The archetype for the luminaries and planets is their elemental energy, but flavored with different archetypal associations from the various Torilian deities.
Sun
Fire as symbolized by Kossuth is a force of purification. Kossuth's ideal of purification draws upon a smithing analogy. Fire in a smith's forge strengthens and purifies metal. Thus, Kossuth's dogma is to seek challenges that forge the soul into a higher state of development, and a stonger, more powerful, purer form. The impulse here resembles something the ancient Greeks refered to as "Arete", which means excellence in action, to improve oneself, to seek perfection, to shine brightly, to be the best.
Kossuth's domains includes Renewal. The energy of the spring and the dawn celebrated by Lathander are indicated by the Sun. The Sun represents revitalization, refreshment, new growth, and energization.
In the correspondence between Torilian and real world astrology, the Sun may be viewed as a combination of real world astrology's Sun and Jupiter. In ancient astrology Jupiter was a planet associated with kings. So leadership and administration in general, organization, ambition, things grand or majestic, etc., are indicated by the Sun.
Element: Fire
Elemental Deity: Kossuth
Associated Archetypes: Lathander, Milil
Selune
Water as symbolized by Istishia is a force of constant change. The basic impulse captured here is one of adaptation and flexibility. The cyclical nature of water's changing states is emphasized. Cycles in nature repeat eternally, therefore consequences to one's actions is represented. To some degree fairness and justice are also indicated, at least in the broad spiritual sense of reaping what one sows in life.
Istishia's domains include Destruction, Storm, and Travel, and these are manifested in the Torilian Moon's influence upon the oceans and tides.
The goddess Selune and her domains of Travel and Protection are indicated by the Torilian Moon. Selune is the divine matron of navigators, guides, seekers, questers, and wanderers.
Element: Water
Elemental Deity: Istishia
Associated Archetypes: Selune, Shaundakul
Anadia
"(Kossuth) Reddish color, also often associated with Garagos the Reaver (humans). The orcs call the planet Gruumsh's Eye, and believe that, at the end of the world, the Eye will purify Faerun in a rain of fire, leaving only the orcs to rule. The elves call Anadia Uluemyn, and associate it with the god Solonor Thelandira."
Anadia is nearly identical to real world astrology's Mars, the god of war. In contrast, in the Torilian system, however, cruelty seems more prominent in the Warrior archetype's darker manifestations.
Anadia represents fire's basic elemental energy as symbolized by Kossuth, but here with an emphasis on fire's destructive power.
Kossuth's domains includes Suffering. Anadia symbolizes an utter ruthlessness that is typically in a battle to the death. In its civilized manifestations the planet also represents the warrior's courage, his readiness to assume risk of death or physical debility in a heartfelt cause. At its most refined, this impulse reflects a mature ownership of struggle, adversity, and pain as essential to growth. In its darker forms it represents the bully, tyrant, and sadist. Survival of the fittest, competition, domination, supremacy, and martial ability are symbolized by this planet. Controled, this energy is skill in combat. Uncontroled it is destructive, mindless rage.
Element: Fire
Elemental Deity: Kossuth
Associated Archetypes: Tempus, Garagos, Tyr, Red Knight, other deities favored by warriors
Coliar
"(Akadi) Bluish-white color. The elves call Coliar Luridel, and associate it with Erevan Ilesere. To the humans of the Heartlands, Coliar is commonly called the Philosopher's Star, and is associated with the legendary sage Alaundo."
The element of air as symbolized by Akadi is the impulse of freedom, and following one's desires and interests wherever they may lead. Like the air and wind, this planet symbolizes resistance to structure and constraints.
Akadi's domains includes Travel, Illusion, and Trickery. She is popular with rogues and rangers. A ranger's love of freedom and wild, open spaces is indicated. Coliar's darker manifestation is represented by the rogue, and activities requiring stealth, deception, and lawbreaking.
Coliar is associated with sages and philosophers because the air element represents the restlessness of the mind in search of greater knowledge, experience, and wisdom. The mind's ability to see beyond the literal, and it's capacity for abstraction and invention is also symbolized.
Element: Air
Elemental Deity: Akadi
Associated Archetypes: Azuth, Mystra, Oghma, Gond, Savras, Mask, Brandobaris
Karpri
"(Istishia) Blue-green color. The elves call Karpri Ochael, and associate it with Rillifane Rallathil."
Like Selune, Karpri also symbolizes the element of water as symbolized by Istishia. Karpri emphasizes water's beauty, and the fact that it is a source of life that connects all living things. Forms of connectedness including love, passion, attachment, care, and nurturing are all represented here.
Element: Water
Elemental Deity: Istishia
Associated Archetypes: Sune, Eldath, Sharess
Chandos
"(Grumbar) Brownish color. The elves call Chandos Iaras, and associate it with Labelas Enoreth."
The element of earth as symbolized by Grumbar is an impulse of stability and endurance. This planet represents that which is timeless and unchanging, like the mountains. Chandos also represents structure, consistency, limitation, and the law.
Element: Earth
Elemental Deity: Grumbar
Associated Archetypes: Tyr, Azuth, Kelemvor |
Edited by - Lemernis on 04 Dec 2005 12:30:07 |
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Lemernis
Senior Scribe
378 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2005 : 23:39:38
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Btw, thanks AJA, I agree very much with that way of looking at it.
Just a few more observations and comments:
I examined the planetary rulerships, detriments, exaltations, and falls using the substitution process I've outlined with real world astrology, and imo there are too many mismatchs in this regard in the Torilian system to work well. Something like that would really require inventing designations that are unique to the Torilian planets and signs. Maybe I'll get around to that one day, but it's not really necessary. Probably better to keep this as simple as possible anyway.
I now see that the Torilian planets aren't always the same distance from the Sun as their real world astrological symbolic counterparts. For example, in the Torilian solar system Anadia (Toril's planet that most resembles Mars symbolically) is closest to the Sun--whereas in real world astronomy Mercury is closest to the Sun.
Therefore, strictly for the purposes of plotting the planets' movements, one might treat Mercury, rather than Mars, as Anadia, for example. And ditto for any other planets in the two systems whose orbits more closely resemble each other. Not something I would bother with myself, but if one wanted to be more meticulous about such things there it is.
The Harptos calendar uses 30 day months with 5 holidays that fall in between certain months, and one leap day holiday (Shieldmeet) every four years. Just use the real world calendar, and then find its match with the Torilan calendar, eg, Hammer = January, Alturiak = February, etc. If you want to get it exact, I'd suggest counting the total number of days from the 1st of January/Hammer, otherwise just substituting the date will have you within a day or two. The further into the year, the further off the calculations will be if you just go by substituting the date, though.
The Torilian Moon has a 30 day cycle whereas the real world Moon has a 28 day cycle. Fortunately, the WotC calendar tool (link given below) calculates the Moon's phase for you, for any year.
Harptos calendar sites:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frx/20050525x
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/calendar.htm
http://www.phoenyx.net/realms/calender.htm |
Edited by - Lemernis on 06 Dec 2005 12:30:05 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jan 2006 : 04:53:29
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| Its been a little while since this was active, but I was just wondering, for anyone that has Dragon 340, any ideas on how to match up the zodiac signs in there (and their corresonding feats) with the existing Torilian constellations, and with the ideas in this thread? |
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Constellations In the Realms
