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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2255 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2016 :  22:53:44  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree about the Sundering plans being shelved. WotC promised a lot that they haven't delivered on. Maybe they're just taking their time, but I was hopeful. Instead, we have 3 authors and unfinished series. Now, those 3 authors are great, but...they are the only 3. I don't care if RAS writes 2 Realms books a year or 7, or who they're about. I want to have more than just his stories to look forward to.

Sweet water and light laughter
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2255 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2016 :  22:54:17  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Especially when his books tend to be more threadbare when it comes to lore.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Sothron
Seeker

16 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  03:32:24  Show Profile Send Sothron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do agree that I wish there were more authors putting out books. I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when it seemed there were several books coming out from a variety of authors.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  14:51:27  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sothron

I do agree that I wish there were more authors putting out books. I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when it seemed there were several books coming out from a variety of authors.



Ah the golden years!

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Sothron
Seeker

16 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  21:45:28  Show Profile Send Sothron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Sothron

I do agree that I wish there were more authors putting out books. I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when it seemed there were several books coming out from a variety of authors.



Ah the golden years!



You know, as I sit here remembering, what happened to the Realms that had so many other characters that appeared in several books on their own? I remember things like Azure Bonds, the Dannilo something and the moon elf girl, the Wyvernspur and female halfling bard, Pools of Radiance, the Moonshae Islands characters and so many more.

So how did we go from all of those various characters and authors to just Drizzt and maybe the Farideh books? I mean what the heck happened here.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2255 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2016 :  00:59:50  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to mention unfinished series, like the Shadowbane books, Unbroken Chain, Hand of Nandewan (sp?), Brotherhood of the Griffin. Those were all 4e novels, yet we are just left hanging, and I know it isn't due to just the authors. I miss those series. The Realms felt so rich before with all the novels. I even liked the standalone ones, like the Waterdeep novels.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2016 :  04:47:06  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Not to mention unfinished series, like the Shadowbane books, Unbroken Chain, Hand of Nandewan (sp?), Brotherhood of the Griffin. Those were all 4e novels, yet we are just left hanging, and I know it isn't due to just the authors. I miss those series. The Realms felt so rich before with all the novels. I even liked the standalone ones, like the Waterdeep novels.



As a friend of Erik de Bie, I can say that I've discussed this with him. The short answer is that WoTC is apparently uninterested in anything to do with 4E as they try to distance themselves from it. However, they're not into storytelling like TSR was, so you get a "sourcebook" like Swordcoast Adventures that has characters, places, and gods that were dead/destroyed/absent suddenly back without any explanation. Erin Evans' storyline is interesting (she's a closer friend of Erik than am I) and they're letting her work with Ed directly on certain aspects, so that's a positive thing. But again, the key factor here is that WoTC doesn't see much market in D&D books right now. As misguided as that may be, they are no longer accepting unsolicited manuscripts, and they're telling almost all of the people with whom they used to work, "no thanks."

To the larger point of this thread, some of my favorite books from Bob were when his worlds "collided," so to speak. When Drizzt and Cadderly teamed up it was great writing. But while the Drizzt books tend to be the same trope repeated, people keep preordering them (including me) and Bob is contracted to write them. We mustn't make the assumption that he gets to write whatever he wants to anymore. The recent (and sad) entry he wrote into the Neverwinter online MMO shows how much they're willing to exploit his characters.

Bob managed to time-shift his major characters into 5E through creative writing. He spanned the intervening time with other characters of whom I'm not terribly fond, and he's returning to some of my favorites with Gromph and Jarlaxle. But he and Ed seem tasked with advancing the storyline Wizards wishes to promote and so people like me are left wondering what's up with Candlekeep and whether Erin's books or the non-sourcebook sourcebook reveal the fate of Azuth.

A bit off topic, but mentioned earlier - I was very unhappy when they killed Mystra (again) in 4E and the subsequent lost/found/lost status of many of the Seven Sisters. Silverfall was one of my favorite books, and I'd like to see more of them. With the time shift, more of The Knights of Myth Drannor seems unlikely. So, while people can be for or against more Drizzt books, it is unfair to blame Bob for writing as he's contracted. Sure, he could say "nope, I'm done," but they'd probably hire another author to start writing Drizzt books as they own the IP of all characters in the Realms, save what Ed has hidden in his NDAs.

I'm afraid that many authors got their swan song in writing The Sundering books, and we're not likely to see more from them again. I hope I'm wrong.

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2255 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2016 :  21:45:56  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the Sundering was indeed their swan song, then WotC lied. I remember watching a few panels from Gen con (I couldn't actually go), and it seemed like they would get to write books beyond the Sundering. There were hints that Brotherhood of the Griffin would return, for example.

I really like Drizzt (though IMO the older books were better), and yes, Bob, as well as others, did the best they could with the time shift, but Gauntlgrym is still my least favorite of the Drizzt books. I too will keep buying the Drizzt books, but at this point I will buy any FR novel that is released. I understand D&D is first and foremost an RPG, so Wizards likely doesn't see that much profit from the novels, but if they looked back, and checked out places like Candlekeep, they would realize the novels, and the FR setting as a whole, are quite popular.

4e as a whole sucked, but there were good novels that were written during that time, such as the ones I mentioned before. To me, it seems as bad a business move to just drop those stories as it was to make 4e in the first place,

Sweet water and light laughter
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
597 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2016 :  03:14:08  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

"Something new."

I like Drizzt - his saga is interesting, and it's RAS's bread and butter, after all. If new Drizzt stuff comes out, I'll read it (provided it is produced as an actual book, and not Kindle-only).

Having said that, maybe a spotlight on some other characters of the Realms, new or otherwise. Maybe a story about Laeral Silverhand? Or Liriel? Maybe bring back some souls thought long dead - Qilue Veladorn comes to mind. Or perhaps something waaaaaay out of left field...pull an incarnation of Olive Ruskettle through time and space, perhaps. Shake things up a bit, and in a way that doesn't push the Realms off its moorings.

- OMH



I'd rather have Ed and Elaine write their characters, than another author. Even if that author is Salvatore.

Fully agree on Qilué. Returned Eilistraee and Mystra could bring her back (every sister but Syluné is coming back...).



I have to agree I don't EVER want to see RAS doing anyone's characters but his.

I also agree with the earlier post that RAS prose DOES kill me at times.

However, I think he has some great work that isn't even in the Forgotten Realms (Crimson Shadow). I'd love to see him adapt a few of those characters over to the Realms.

I don't think anyone can dispute that he has some AMAZING supporting characters that really deserve a FULL origin story.

Even though his writing sometimes annoys me, he is the MASTER of the origin story..or at least he was.

I can't really ever get tired of dark elves.

I would love to see full origin stories (no matter how many books it takes) for these characters:

1. Jarlaxle (and the associated other characters in the mercenary band). I know mystery is a part of his schtick but this is an endless goldmine.

2. Artemis Entreri (his origin story wasn't fleshed out enough)

3. Montolio Debrouchee and the Rangewatchers

4. Oliver deBurrows (from the Crimson Shadow series)

5. Ghost (who mastered the Ghearufu)

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2255 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2016 :  03:40:34  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I enjoy dark elves, too. I don't get tired reading about surface elves and drow. This is why I would like to see more books about Eilistraeens or Vhaeraunites (though this is unlikely to happen any time soon, if at all, unfortunately).

Drizzt is awesome, and I like him as a character. I guess I wouldn't care so much about whether the series ended (so long as it is wrapped up well, and honestly, I don't want it to end with his death. I like him too much for that) if there were more Realms books being released. It's because there are so few Realms being released that I really feel the punch of how long the Drizzt books have gone on. That, and you walk into a bookstore like B&N, and most of the FR books are Drizzt.

Sweet water and light laughter
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BARDOBARBAROS
Senior Scribe

Greece
579 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2016 :  08:57:48  Show Profile  Visit BARDOBARBAROS's Homepage Send BARDOBARBAROS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
something new ...also to continue to write for Drizzt but not so often, for example 1 book every 2-3 years

BARDOBARBAROS DOES NOT KILL.
HE DECAPITATES!!!


"The city changes, but the fools within it remain always the same" (Edwin Odesseiron- Baldur's gate 2)
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 27 Mar 2016 :  22:33:06  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BARDOBARBAROS

something new ...also to continue to write for Drizzt but not so often, for example 1 book every 2-3 years



I agree on something new, but I'm pretty sure he's contracted to write at least one Drizzt book a year.

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
804 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2016 :  13:07:09  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sigh. Just finished the ARC of the new book.

On one hand, it was an interesting story with some fun and epic stuff. If you are the sort who ignores game statistics and lore, you probably enjoy most Drizzt books anyways so no harm no foul.

If you are a loremaster who believes in roughly following the statbooks as a guide and think a mere warrior can't fight certain beings in single combat and win despite outside interference, you are probably going to chew nails.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

689 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2016 :  19:29:28  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth
However, they're not into storytelling like TSR was, so you get a "sourcebook" like Swordcoast Adventures that has characters, places, and gods that were dead/destroyed/absent suddenly back without any explanation.



I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2983 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2016 :  19:32:36  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 28 Mar 2016 :  22:10:15  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.



That would require them to pay an author - something they seem reluctant to do.

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
597 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2016 :  16:56:15  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.



That would require them to pay an author - something they seem reluctant to do.



Why pay an author when you can "give the Realms to everyone" and let the DM Guild pump out new material at no cost to you, while you collect a cut of the profits.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2983 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2016 :  17:01:04  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.



That would require them to pay an author - something they seem reluctant to do.



Novels would be awesome to explain that, but at this point I'm not even asking for that much. They could just poke Ed, and he'd provide them with good explanations for how things are the way they are now. WotC could have done during their long hiatus, and Ed would have surely crafted massive amounts of lore in that time.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 29 Mar 2016 17:04:19
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2983 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2016 :  17:03:25  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77


Why pay an author when you can "give the Realms to everyone" and let the DM Guild pump out new material at no cost to you, while you collect a cut of the profits.



Except that the almost totality of the DMGuild articles consist of rules and has very little to do with the FR :/

But you have a point, since Ed is going to write Realms for the Guild, but I don't know if his books will include any explanation for what changed with the Sundering, since they're going to be Volo guide style books (which are awesome anyway).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

689 Posts

Posted - 29 Mar 2016 :  23:46:38  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.



That would require them to pay an author - something they seem reluctant to do.



Why pay an author when you can "give the Realms to everyone" and let the DM Guild pump out new material at no cost to you, while you collect a cut of the profits.



Because not all of us play the actual game. I gave it a try a year back but that only lasted a few months. I remain convinced that there are far more people who used to read the novels but never played the game. WoTC is essentially cutting off most of their fans by neglecting the story.

Edited by - Caolin on 29 Mar 2016 23:48:02
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
597 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2016 :  17:13:55  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.



That would require them to pay an author - something they seem reluctant to do.



Why pay an author when you can "give the Realms to everyone" and let the DM Guild pump out new material at no cost to you, while you collect a cut of the profits.



Because not all of us play the actual game. I gave it a try a year back but that only lasted a few months. I remain convinced that there are far more people who used to read the novels but never played the game. WoTC is essentially cutting off most of their fans by neglecting the story.





I guess you couldn't detect my sarcasm.

'Of course I totally agree with you. I was a fan of the novels at age 12, several years before I was even exposed to any D&D game.

WotC would be smart to harken back to the old TSR wisdom where the novel releases SUPPORT the game products. Like what was done with the Moonshaes in the very beginning.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

689 Posts

Posted - 30 Mar 2016 :  18:01:44  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77
I guess you couldn't detect my sarcasm.



Sorry, my sarcasm extension wasn't working.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
804 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2016 :  19:53:59  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin

quote:
Originally posted by Cards77

quote:
Originally posted by Azuth

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Caolin


I've long suspected this, but it still depresses the hell out of me. It just re enforces my cynicism about the Realms and WoTC in general.



Ikr. I'm happy that all of that has been restored, but those characters, deities and places that have been removed via novels should get at least a basic explanation for their return, not just ''Ao did it''.



That would require them to pay an author - something they seem reluctant to do.



Why pay an author when you can "give the Realms to everyone" and let the DM Guild pump out new material at no cost to you, while you collect a cut of the profits.



Because not all of us play the actual game. I gave it a try a year back but that only lasted a few months. I remain convinced that there are far more people who used to read the novels but never played the game. WoTC is essentially cutting off most of their fans by neglecting the story.





I guess you couldn't detect my sarcasm.

'Of course I totally agree with you. I was a fan of the novels at age 12, several years before I was even exposed to any D&D game.

WotC would be smart to harken back to the old TSR wisdom where the novel releases SUPPORT the game products. Like what was done with the Moonshaes in the very beginning.


If WOTC wants to promote the realms, they should have jumped on the MMORPG wagon for real awhile back and really poured money into it to make it a good one. Warcraft books sell extremely well(So says my manager friend who has access to sales reports at Chapters across Canada)

The problem with wanting the good old days back is, a large chunk of people who used to play tabletop moved to video games in the past 15 years, so tabletop product sales were hit hard by the exodus of their primary buyers.

Nobody would have given a crap about warcraft books before WOW became the game. And WOW is nowhere near as popular anymore because better games have come out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31515 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2016 :  21:54:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm


If WOTC wants to promote the realms, they should have jumped on the MMORPG wagon for real awhile back snip



They did. It was called 4E.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 01 Apr 2016 21:55:11
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
402 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2016 :  22:00:46  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm


If WOTC wants to promote the realms, they should have jumped on the MMORPG wagon for real awhile back snip



They did. It was called 4E.



It Is called Neverwinter, and it is awful.

Azuth, the First Magister
Lord of All Spells

The greatest expression of creativity is through Art.
Offense can never be given, only taken.
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