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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  20:50:50  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  21:04:04  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?



Because this is a poll where you are encouraged to voice your opinion about the topic.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
705 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  21:30:09  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?



Because this is a poll where you are encouraged to voice your opinion about the topic.



FTW!

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  23:04:35  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?



Because this is a poll where you are encouraged to voice your opinion about the topic.



That actually doesn't answer the question, it just dodges the issue.

Do people just hate it that others still enjoy something so they don't want them to have it?

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 01 Mar 2016 :  23:37:51  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?



Because this is a poll where you are encouraged to voice your opinion about the topic.



That actually doesn't answer the question, it just dodges the issue.

Do people just hate it that others still enjoy something so they don't want them to have it?



I think that the matter is another. People want to have something else alongside Drizzt. He alone takes 2 of the 4 yearly novels (and has already about 30 novels dedicated just to his storyline), while the rest of the Realms would be left to rot, if it wasn't for Ed going out of his way to include lore tidbits in his books, or for Erin Evans who has chosen a different, unusual location for her latest book.

Add to this the fact that, while the Drizzt books are once again heavily focused on the drow and Lolth, an event as huge as the return of the Dark Seldarine, new alliances within it, and all that entails, doesn't even get mentioned...

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.

Edited by - Irennan on 01 Mar 2016 23:40:17
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  00:12:18  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?



Because this is a poll where you are encouraged to voice your opinion about the topic.



That actually doesn't answer the question, it just dodges the issue.

Do people just hate it that others still enjoy something so they don't want them to have it?



Not really. Polls on this site are where you discuss the topic at hand. If you glance at the votes so far you will see that more than half of the people want to see Salvatore move on and write about something else. For Salvatore to do that, then Drizzt has to end.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  00:15:31  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

Why is it that when people get tired of something they always argue that it should end even if others still enjoy it?



Because this is a poll where you are encouraged to voice your opinion about the topic.



That actually doesn't answer the question, it just dodges the issue.

Do people just hate it that others still enjoy something so they don't want them to have it?



I'm pretty sure no one has actually said "I don't care if others like it, it should end" as much as they have said "I'm done with it and would like to see it end."

It's like having a preference for Coke over Pepsi. Saying you prefer Coke isn't a statement that no one should drink Pepsi.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  01:49:27  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Drizzt doesn't have to die/end, we could just take a break from him again and focus on some new characters (or underused ones like Artemis who has been MIA for like 4 novels now) for a while from Bob and WotC.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  01:58:35  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't want Drizzt to die. If the series is going to end--and as much as I love Drizzt, I would like to see it wrapped up--I would like it to end happily.

Sweet water and light laughter
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BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 02 Mar 2016 :  02:06:52  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
In a perfect world with WoTC having unlimited resources, I'd be perfectly happy with RAS continuing with Drizzt, as long as there were additional novels being written (by him or someone else) covering new characters, new storylines, new areas of Faerun, and updated/new lore.

However, things being as they are, if RAS is going to be one of the very few authors writing FR novels, I'd prefer it if he branched out to something other than Drizzt & the Companions.

Assuming that he's sticking with the current storyline, I'd like to see:

More Artemis, Dahlia & Doum'wielle.
Less Drizzt & Catti Brie
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Kyrel
Learned Scribe

151 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2016 :  14:24:07  Show Profile  Visit Kyrel's Homepage Send Kyrel a Private Message  Reply with Quote
To me, the Drizzt series should have ended with Drizzt's seeming death before "The Companions" and all the old friends came back in new forms. The various Companions had IMO had a good run at that point, and they'd pretty much all had a decent ending to their chronicles. It had pushed Drizzt along and into the arms of a new set of companions (like elves should have to over the decades/centuries), and his rather monocromatic worldview of good and evil had been challenged. I saw all of that as a good thing, and something that, if continued, would have had me asking for more Drizzt books. As it is, bringing the Companions back killed it for me.

So, let's have something new. Let's see some new characters and adventurers show up on the scene and be products of their time in the Realms. Let's give the Realms some new characters with new backgrounds and personalities we can explore over the course of the next X number of books.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2016 :  17:02:18  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Personally, I would have been upset if the series ended with Last Threshold. Because the series has dragged on so long, it deserves a good ending. I am glad the Companions have returned. I didn't like the arc where Drizzt was with Dahlia.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2016 :  18:41:07  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Because the series has dragged on so long, it deserves a good ending.



What's a good ending at this point?

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2016 :  21:09:13  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm pretty sure no one has actually said "I don't care if others like it, it should end" as much as they have said "I'm done with it and would like to see it end."

It's like having a preference for Coke over Pepsi. Saying you prefer Coke isn't a statement that no one should drink Pepsi.



I'd say a more accurate comparison would be:

It's like having a preference for Coke over Pepsi and wanting Pepsi to stop being produced.

It's one thing to say that you're tired of something and want to move on to something else, it's a whole another story to want something to die out alongside your interest in it.

Given that RAS keeps signing contracts to make more Drizzt books, I'd say that at the very least he wants to keep making money off of Drizzt, and given that people keep buying Drizzt books (myself included) there's also people interested in reading more Drizzt.

I can easily understand wanting books about new characters and locations, but wanting Drizzt books to stop being released doesn't necessarily mean that RAS will start writing about new characters and locations. There's also the real possibility that he'd stop writing in the Realms altogether (which also wouldn't mean that he'd be replaced by another writer).

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2285 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2016 :  23:08:49  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the drizzt series does not have to end for a new set to start, as I said 1 shop new heroes book. 1 book, 1 set new heroes, 1 shop and then once and done. never likely hear from them again.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
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Sothron
Acolyte

16 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2016 :  01:46:27  Show Profile Send Sothron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like Drizzt and the Companions a good deal but honestly I would love to see a series based just off Artemis Entreri, Jarlaxle and that crazy dwarf with the twin morning star weapons.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2016 :  13:24:06  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I feel like Wizards has expedited ending FR altogether in the past few years.

It just feels more and more like the writing on the wall is glowing

Certainly they have culled all but 3 authors from writing in the world, and even Ed has begun other projects for his own new world that involves a lot of other realms authors.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 15 Mar 2016 :  14:02:22  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

I feel like Wizards has expedited ending FR altogether in the past few years.

It just feels more and more like the writing on the wall is glowing

Certainly they have culled all but 3 authors from writing in the world, and even Ed has begun other projects for his own new world that involves a lot of other realms authors.



As far as I know, If Ed doesn't get a contract for at least 1 FR product/year, the rights will revert to him. I think that WotC is more or less forced to have at least 1 Elminster novel or sourcebook per year, if they want to keep the Realms.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2016 :  21:10:04  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

I feel like Wizards has expedited ending FR altogether in the past few years.

It just feels more and more like the writing on the wall is glowing

Certainly they have culled all but 3 authors from writing in the world, and even Ed has begun other projects for his own new world that involves a lot of other realms authors.



As far as I know, If Ed doesn't get a contract for at least 1 FR product/year, the rights will revert to him. I think that WotC is more or less forced to have at least 1 Elminster novel or sourcebook per year, if they want to keep the Realms.


Whohoo.

Meanwhile longtime realms fans no longer get a bunch of good novels a year from a larger number of great authors. Only a few.

All the stuff they promised to follow the sundering...shelved. All the great authors we no longer get books for....oops, can't pay them a decent wage now can we.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2016 :  21:44:51  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
Whohoo.

Meanwhile longtime realms fans no longer get a bunch of good novels a year from a larger number of great authors. Only a few.

All the stuff they promised to follow the sundering...shelved. All the great authors we no longer get books for....oops, can't pay them a decent wage now can we.



I surely wasn't cheering at the perspective of a reduced number of publications.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2016 :  22:53:44  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree about the Sundering plans being shelved. WotC promised a lot that they haven't delivered on. Maybe they're just taking their time, but I was hopeful. Instead, we have 3 authors and unfinished series. Now, those 3 authors are great, but...they are the only 3. I don't care if RAS writes 2 Realms books a year or 7, or who they're about. I want to have more than just his stories to look forward to.

Sweet water and light laughter
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2016 :  22:54:17  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Especially when his books tend to be more threadbare when it comes to lore.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Sothron
Acolyte

16 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  03:32:24  Show Profile Send Sothron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do agree that I wish there were more authors putting out books. I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when it seemed there were several books coming out from a variety of authors.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3131 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  14:51:27  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sothron

I do agree that I wish there were more authors putting out books. I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when it seemed there were several books coming out from a variety of authors.



Ah the golden years!

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

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Sothron
Acolyte

16 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2016 :  21:45:28  Show Profile Send Sothron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

quote:
Originally posted by Sothron

I do agree that I wish there were more authors putting out books. I'm old enough to remember back in the 90's when it seemed there were several books coming out from a variety of authors.



Ah the golden years!



You know, as I sit here remembering, what happened to the Realms that had so many other characters that appeared in several books on their own? I remember things like Azure Bonds, the Dannilo something and the moon elf girl, the Wyvernspur and female halfling bard, Pools of Radiance, the Moonshae Islands characters and so many more.

So how did we go from all of those various characters and authors to just Drizzt and maybe the Farideh books? I mean what the heck happened here.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2016 :  00:59:50  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not to mention unfinished series, like the Shadowbane books, Unbroken Chain, Hand of Nandewan (sp?), Brotherhood of the Griffin. Those were all 4e novels, yet we are just left hanging, and I know it isn't due to just the authors. I miss those series. The Realms felt so rich before with all the novels. I even liked the standalone ones, like the Waterdeep novels.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Azuth
Senior Scribe

USA
404 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2016 :  04:47:06  Show Profile  Visit Azuth's Homepage Send Azuth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Not to mention unfinished series, like the Shadowbane books, Unbroken Chain, Hand of Nandewan (sp?), Brotherhood of the Griffin. Those were all 4e novels, yet we are just left hanging, and I know it isn't due to just the authors. I miss those series. The Realms felt so rich before with all the novels. I even liked the standalone ones, like the Waterdeep novels.



As a friend of Erik de Bie, I can say that I've discussed this with him. The short answer is that WoTC is apparently uninterested in anything to do with 4E as they try to distance themselves from it. However, they're not into storytelling like TSR was, so you get a "sourcebook" like Swordcoast Adventures that has characters, places, and gods that were dead/destroyed/absent suddenly back without any explanation. Erin Evans' storyline is interesting (she's a closer friend of Erik than am I) and they're letting her work with Ed directly on certain aspects, so that's a positive thing. But again, the key factor here is that WoTC doesn't see much market in D&D books right now. As misguided as that may be, they are no longer accepting unsolicited manuscripts, and they're telling almost all of the people with whom they used to work, "no thanks."

To the larger point of this thread, some of my favorite books from Bob were when his worlds "collided," so to speak. When Drizzt and Cadderly teamed up it was great writing. But while the Drizzt books tend to be the same trope repeated, people keep preordering them (including me) and Bob is contracted to write them. We mustn't make the assumption that he gets to write whatever he wants to anymore. The recent (and sad) entry he wrote into the Neverwinter online MMO shows how much they're willing to exploit his characters.

Bob managed to time-shift his major characters into 5E through creative writing. He spanned the intervening time with other characters of whom I'm not terribly fond, and he's returning to some of my favorites with Gromph and Jarlaxle. But he and Ed seem tasked with advancing the storyline Wizards wishes to promote and so people like me are left wondering what's up with Candlekeep and whether Erin's books or the non-sourcebook sourcebook reveal the fate of Azuth.

A bit off topic, but mentioned earlier - I was very unhappy when they killed Mystra (again) in 4E and the subsequent lost/found/lost status of many of the Seven Sisters. Silverfall was one of my favorite books, and I'd like to see more of them. With the time shift, more of The Knights of Myth Drannor seems unlikely. So, while people can be for or against more Drizzt books, it is unfair to blame Bob for writing as he's contracted. Sure, he could say "nope, I'm done," but they'd probably hire another author to start writing Drizzt books as they own the IP of all characters in the Realms, save what Ed has hidden in his NDAs.

I'm afraid that many authors got their swan song in writing The Sundering books, and we're not likely to see more from them again. I hope I'm wrong.

Azuth, the First Magister
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 22 Mar 2016 :  21:45:56  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the Sundering was indeed their swan song, then WotC lied. I remember watching a few panels from Gen con (I couldn't actually go), and it seemed like they would get to write books beyond the Sundering. There were hints that Brotherhood of the Griffin would return, for example.

I really like Drizzt (though IMO the older books were better), and yes, Bob, as well as others, did the best they could with the time shift, but Gauntlgrym is still my least favorite of the Drizzt books. I too will keep buying the Drizzt books, but at this point I will buy any FR novel that is released. I understand D&D is first and foremost an RPG, so Wizards likely doesn't see that much profit from the novels, but if they looked back, and checked out places like Candlekeep, they would realize the novels, and the FR setting as a whole, are quite popular.

4e as a whole sucked, but there were good novels that were written during that time, such as the ones I mentioned before. To me, it seems as bad a business move to just drop those stories as it was to make 4e in the first place,

Sweet water and light laughter
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Cards77
Senior Scribe

USA
745 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2016 :  03:14:08  Show Profile Send Cards77 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell

"Something new."

I like Drizzt - his saga is interesting, and it's RAS's bread and butter, after all. If new Drizzt stuff comes out, I'll read it (provided it is produced as an actual book, and not Kindle-only).

Having said that, maybe a spotlight on some other characters of the Realms, new or otherwise. Maybe a story about Laeral Silverhand? Or Liriel? Maybe bring back some souls thought long dead - Qilue Veladorn comes to mind. Or perhaps something waaaaaay out of left field...pull an incarnation of Olive Ruskettle through time and space, perhaps. Shake things up a bit, and in a way that doesn't push the Realms off its moorings.

- OMH



I'd rather have Ed and Elaine write their characters, than another author. Even if that author is Salvatore.

Fully agree on Qilué. Returned Eilistraee and Mystra could bring her back (every sister but Syluné is coming back...).



I have to agree I don't EVER want to see RAS doing anyone's characters but his.

I also agree with the earlier post that RAS prose DOES kill me at times.

However, I think he has some great work that isn't even in the Forgotten Realms (Crimson Shadow). I'd love to see him adapt a few of those characters over to the Realms.

I don't think anyone can dispute that he has some AMAZING supporting characters that really deserve a FULL origin story.

Even though his writing sometimes annoys me, he is the MASTER of the origin story..or at least he was.

I can't really ever get tired of dark elves.

I would love to see full origin stories (no matter how many books it takes) for these characters:

1. Jarlaxle (and the associated other characters in the mercenary band). I know mystery is a part of his schtick but this is an endless goldmine.

2. Artemis Entreri (his origin story wasn't fleshed out enough)

3. Montolio Debrouchee and the Rangewatchers

4. Oliver deBurrows (from the Crimson Shadow series)

5. Ghost (who mastered the Ghearufu)

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2016 :  03:40:34  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I enjoy dark elves, too. I don't get tired reading about surface elves and drow. This is why I would like to see more books about Eilistraeens or Vhaeraunites (though this is unlikely to happen any time soon, if at all, unfortunately).

Drizzt is awesome, and I like him as a character. I guess I wouldn't care so much about whether the series ended (so long as it is wrapped up well, and honestly, I don't want it to end with his death. I like him too much for that) if there were more Realms books being released. It's because there are so few Realms being released that I really feel the punch of how long the Drizzt books have gone on. That, and you walk into a bookstore like B&N, and most of the FR books are Drizzt.

Sweet water and light laughter
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