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Richtin
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 02:49:28
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But the only way to have ice caps is for a sphirical world!!!!!!!
how do you explain that Cardinal Deimos?!?!?!?!?! |
"Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?" |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 04:09:35
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Are you so certain of that?  Tsk, tsk. Beware how much reasoning you base things on for you will find that there are things that will defy all known logic and known laws. As for an ice cap? Two points can come to mind, First the Ice simply always was (but that is actually untrue) and the second deals with The slumbering god Ulutiu and his necklace with which is the reason for the Ice cap. Dig down and take the Ice Necklace from the heart of the cap... perhaps it will melt? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 04:21:39
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| Ah, Deimos... Insane as always... Must be the lich talking... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 04:57:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Flat and curved? Ah, so now you're getting into higher spatial dimensions, are you? You'd need at least four spatial dimensions for that to happen in the perspective of a three-dimensional viewpoint.
Seriously, I'm not sure how you could think of the planet as flat.
And, any form of reality that in scope, makes use of dimensions beyond the standard four spatial dimensions of our universe, would be completely inaccessible for exploration by humanity anyway (given our current biological forms of course... )
Cardinal, have you been reading about Sigil? Your thoughts on this subject seem strangely reminiscent of something I read on another forum regarding the 'torus' -shaped structure of the City of Doors...
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 06:07:39
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Alas, Sage were it so easily to blame our thoughts on recent readings, but alas we have not. Would you be as so kind to elaborate this torus' shape idea? We always heard the City of Doors was ring shaped... Perhaps Faerun is this Torus shape?
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Reason's over rated, brought to you by the illogical society for a better go around |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 03 Apr 2004 06:09:16 |
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Richtin
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 06:08:20
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DARN YOU
you are making my think twice about it. on second thoght you do have a piont there that i cannot argue. perhaps you are right?? i will be doing some investigating to see the true answer. |
"Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 09:25:36
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Cardinal, a torus (in geometry), is a surface generated by rotating a circle around an axis that is in the plane of the circle, but that does not intersect the circle. I offer a doughnut, the inner tube of an inflatable tire, or the surface formed by bending a cylinder into a ring as all common examples of tori.
Now, how this relates to Sigil...
An excerpt from the now famous What is Planescape scroll -
quote:
It's a city shaped like the inside of a tire. If you look in the sky, you can see the rest of the streets and buildings curving up on all sides and stretching in an arc across the sky. It's incredibly densely populated, with most buildings many stories in height with shacks and lean-tos all built along it. The roads are mostly narrow and winding, often cut off from the sky completely or stretching through the skyway on bridges from building to building. There's one waterway, a moving avenue of filth and excrement called the Ditch - there are portals within it to various real rivers (even the upper-planar Oceanus) but they add fresh water only rarely, and for brief periods.
I hope that has helped somewhat Cardinal...
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 18:01:51
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Your always a help, Sage. Always. |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Richtin
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 20:01:59
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| But if it was as an odd shape like that, with so many educated people wouldnt some one have said some where that this "torus" shape was or was not Aber-toril's shape????? |
"Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 21:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Richtin
But if it was as an odd shape like that, with so many educated people wouldnt some one have said some where that this "torus" shape was or was not Aber-toril's shape?????
It is clearly stated in more than one source that Toril is round.
Though I no longer have any Planescape stuff, I do recall it being stated that the city of Sigil was built on the inside of a torus. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2004 : 22:58:44
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| Be at peace friend Richtin, you are more or less correct. Many seem to agree that Toril is spherical in shape, but it has yet to be proven. Things that are believed now can yet be disproven. Ideas that are accepted may yet be found wanting. Besides if it is a Sphere in shape, then how large is the sphere? It may just be so large that one could never sail around in in their life time. Who knows, keep you thoughts but always remember that they may never be right... of course what do we know, we're stark raving mad. |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 00:31:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Be at peace friend Richtin, you are more or less correct. Many seem to agree that Toril is spherical in shape, but it has yet to be proven. Things that are believed now can yet be disproven. Ideas that are accepted may yet be found wanting. Besides if it is a Sphere in shape, then how large is the sphere? It may just be so large that one could never sail around in in their life time. Who knows, keep you thoughts but always remember that they may never be right... of course what do we know, we're stark raving mad.
What's to prove? Realmspace clearly says its a sphere. Spheres are round last I knew...... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Richtin
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 01:56:23
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| my dear freind cardinal deimos any more can you be unlogical and logical at the same time??? hahahahaha!!!! too true, to true!!! |
"Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 02:11:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Be at peace friend Richtin, you are more or less correct. Many seem to agree that Toril is spherical in shape, but it has yet to be proven. Things that are believed now can yet be disproven. Ideas that are accepted may yet be found wanting. Besides if it is a Sphere in shape, then how large is the sphere? It may just be so large that one could never sail around in in their life time. Who knows, keep you thoughts but always remember that they may never be right... of course what do we know, we're stark raving mad.
I'd think that the fact that people have been in orbit around Toril, and have seen that it is, in fact, a sphere, kinda conclusively proves it. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2004 : 09:41:13
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Just to add a little note of finality to this scroll...
The Realmspace tome clearly defines Toril's planet type as, spherical earth body.
On a slightly related note, I remember reading something a while back that stated (in 2e terms) that Crystal Spheres could only contain spheroid-shape celestial bodies.
But I found the argument to be unsupported by direct evidence. I mean, one need only look to the "planet" of Garden in Realmspace to see that such a perspective has no basis...
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 05:40:33
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Really? I remember the Spelljammer books visited a crystal sphere that was a natural Dyson sphere. Now there's a world you could explore forever!
What's Garden, by the way? I'm drawing a blank. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 05:45:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Really? I remember the Spelljammer books visited a crystal sphere that was a natural Dyson sphere. Now there's a world you could explore forever!
What's Garden, by the way? I'm drawing a blank.
And I'm drawing a blank on what a Dyson sphere is. Sorry if my scientific knowledge just isn't as wide as yours... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 05:57:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Really? I remember the Spelljammer books visited a crystal sphere that was a natural Dyson sphere. Now there's a world you could explore forever!
What's Garden, by the way? I'm drawing a blank.
And I'm drawing a blank on what a Dyson sphere is. Sorry if my scientific knowledge just isn't as wide as yours...
A Dyson sphere is a constructed sphere that totally encloses a star. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 06:05:31
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That's okay.
Dyson was a guy who had a bit of time on his hands, and thought about how the sun was rather wasteful. After all, it's pumping out energy in every direction, and the only part that's getting any use is the stuff headed our way. (Of course, this defines "useful" as "doing humans some good," but most people get the idea.)
So he said that to fix this problem, people in the future should build a sphere around the sun, thus potentially puting all of the star's energy to work. If you made it as large in diameter as Earth's orbit, you'd have around ten billion times (give or take) the surface area of our home planet.
Of course, Dyson's sphere has a few obstacles. For one, there would be almost no gravity to the inhabitants. You could "hang" the habitats so that the star is actually at your feet (this is how the Dyson spheres in Howard Tayler's SF comedy Schlock Mercenary work), but even then the gravity would be very light. This can be solved by shrinking the diameter, but that also increases the amount of energy per square increment that your new home has to absorb.
Finally, the biggest obstacle is the price tag. And you thought your first house was bad?  It's no accident that the Dyson spheres in the above tale carry an alien name that roughly translates to "This was expensive to build." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 06:58:40
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| I've seen a couple of Dyson spheres in Sci-Fi tales... One was called Big (Illegal Aliens) and another was called Light Trap (the Black Hole Travel Agency books). |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Apr 2004 06:59:49 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 14:10:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Arivia
quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Really? I remember the Spelljammer books visited a crystal sphere that was a natural Dyson sphere. Now there's a world you could explore forever!
What's Garden, by the way? I'm drawing a blank.
And I'm drawing a blank on what a Dyson sphere is. Sorry if my scientific knowledge just isn't as wide as yours...
Arivia, you may want to look over one of the most accurate Dyson Sphere FAQ listings that I could find. It should provide you with enough basic information.
Bookwyrm, Garden is part of the Torilian system in Realmspace, the seventh 'planet' orbiting the sun. The reason I made a comment upon this earlier is because, officially, Garden isn't a spheroid, or a planet. It's a cluster earth body. These clusters of earth lay relatively close to each other, and they are said to be anchored in place (and to each other) by the roots of a gigantic 'Yggdrasil'-type tree.
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2004 : 16:55:12
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Good link, Sage.
Looks like I had two too many extra zeros, though.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
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Richtin
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 03:55:49
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| so are you saying aber-toil is flat, spherical, dyson sphere or torus shaped?? too many choises!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
"Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 03:57:02
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It happens...
I once modelled a location (inside a Dyson's Sphere) for use in one of my BattleTech games...The only problem was the poor calculations that I'd first used to originally create the sphere in terms of hex-grids...
It wasn't until I found this FAQ, that I realised how 'off' my workings had been...
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Richtin
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 04:01:24
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| ??????????so which one is it??????????????????? |
"Where in the Nine Hells did you ever get the notion that I would fight fair?" |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 04:07:41
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| Thanks Sage, and Bookwyrm...this scroll now makes slightly more sense...although some of it still makes my head hurt... |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 04:08:54
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Richtin, I'd already mentioned that the Realmspace tome says that Toril is a spheroid-shaped celestial body (shaped like Earth, if that helps...). So that, should answer your heavily questioned-marked query...
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 07:32:35
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...
Or does it?
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 08:44:12
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Sorry, Cardinal, but you're outvoted. Unless, of course, you can think of a better argument than maniacal laughter.
You shouldn't do that, anyway. That's Rule # 20. Despite its proven stress-relieving effect, it makes one susceptible to being distracted. Like in regards to that rogue who’s sneaking up behind you. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 12:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
...
Or does it?
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Yes, if you have an alternate view Cardinal (well supported by evidence I hope), then I'd like to hear it...?
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Abeir-Toril: Round or Flat?
