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Arioch
Learned Scribe

Italy
222 Posts

Posted - 06 Jan 2016 :  11:28:44  Show Profile  Visit Arioch's Homepage Send Arioch a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Hi Scribes!

I've a question regarding the fate of Impiltur AFTER the Blue Fire.

The very few info around (4ED FR setting and 5th Sword Coast's AG) only specify the end of the Heltharn dynasty and the generic decadence of the nation.

Any lore about what happened to the Knights of Imphras II after the death of King Imbrar II?

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4908 Posts

Posted - 07 Jan 2016 :  00:13:12  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  02:53:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So what DID happen?

To Impiltur, I mean, post-Spellplague? I thought I heard something about it becoming the 'Demon Lands' are some such.

I'm only asking, because now that I am mapping in this area again, I've decided to do a little side-thing nearby (which may or may not see fruition - it barely past the 'mental exercise' stage).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
717 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  08:24:46  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There is not much of Impultur in 4e products. But did a research, if you don't mind LFR stuff:

-In the post-Spellplague Realms/1479 DR, Impiltur was really THE Forgotten Kingdom. A place full of lawlessness and evil demon cults. The people there was desperate and stuff, and due the change in the Sea of Fallen Stars, the trade faded and the economy of the kingdom suffered, there was an economic crisis and that stuff. They are recovering by the time SCAG takes places, but I don't think they are in their 3e state yet.

-The area is known (or was known, at least in 4e), as the demon lands, because demons bound in the age of Narfell and Raumathar were released after the Weave went off in the Spellplague. So, in 4e the place was good for demon-hunting parties.

-There was no king, no royal court in Impiltur since the Spellplague killed the last king. The country is ruled now by the Grand Council, an assemblage of nobles and wealthy merchants (some corrupt and the like). The situation hasn't changed by the info I've read in the SCAG.

-Lyrabar isn't the capital of the nation anymore. Its a backwater city, in fact, by the 15th century DR. Filled with criminals and demon cultists and the like. The most prominent city in current Impiltur is New Sarchel. The guys living in Sarchel were savvy enough to construct new ports when the Sea of Fallen Stars lowed its levels, and monopolized the sea trade, changing the name of the city to New Sarchel.

Lyrabar did it too late to not be affected by that. The other two ports cities didn't nothing and paid the consequences. By 1479 were mere towns. The SCAG says that the Sea of Fallen Stars regained its normal levels by 1487, and so Lyrabar and the other two now port-towns are recovering, but again, I don't believe their situation have been greatly improved in just a few years. New Sarchel may still be the prominent Impilturan city by 1491.

-If taken into account, the LFR adventurers improved the situation of the country a little bit. I haven't read them all, but I know they dealt a great blow to the Cult of Tharos (the main demon cult of Impiltur in 4e), destroying its power base in New Sarchel and killing many of its leaders (including some corrupt members of the Grand Council). So, this must be helping Impiltur to recover even faster.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 16 Sep 2017 08:37:08
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  09:04:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
yeah, not every place needs to be dirtied up. Impiltur had its dark side, but it used to be pretty.... old wounds don't heal easy... this coming from the guy that loved Thay says much for how much that nation needed to stay the course.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  14:05:34  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmph. So pretty-much the only countries that were actually affected by the water-level drop (as far as I can tell thus-far) were Turmish and Impiltur. Weird.

Still, thanks - that helps me with the bit of lore I am creating (the Viscounty of Verbostag).

Hey George, I think its time we finally found 'The Lost Princess' (Ya know... because she was wearing that 'stasis' ring, in case of trouble?).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4908 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  14:51:12  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never fear, the Heltharns learned their lessons after the death of a spate of princes prior to the Imbrar II. When the Spellplague hit, Imbrar II was killed and the realm was beset once again by a host of fiends and an attack by their old foes the hobgoblins, the heir at the time - his cousin Delimbrar (once of the Council of Lords) was hustled away by magic, faraway from the kingdom. In hindsight it was a bad call on the part of the Crown, because without a real leader the kingdom disintegrated pretty quickly and there was nothing to come back to for a long 7 or so winters as various power groups within the region pulled together and beat off the invaders, Sarshel at the forefront of the effort. That struggle was a bitter one however, and left the realm a disjointed, angry and disaffected place with the city-states going it alone and loath to lend aid to their neighbours and a huge rift emerging between the "northern faction" lead by Sarshel and the "southern faction" lead by Lyrabar. Subtle enquiries regarding the "return of the king" gained little currency and it was feared (correctly) that Delimbrar returning to the realm would mean a swift death sentence. So he never returned. His grandson Imphras is now the titular king-in-exile (Imphras VI) but whether he will ever make a return to the kingdom is doubtful. He will only do so if he manages to obtain strong backing either externally or internally and neither of those have eventuated to date.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 16 Sep 2017 14:51:39
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Veritas
Learned Scribe

203 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  15:27:37  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just started an Impiltur campaign this week and George, I have to thank you for your tremendous work on the region. I was hunting through the scant sources covering the area until I hit upon your article in Dragon 346. While I'm setting it in 1495 DR, other than moving the water, renaming Sarshel to New Sarshel, and casting wide the doors of the Tower of Conjuration to unleash further slavering hordes of demons on the beleaguered region, I can lift the details almost wholesale.

If anything, your Dragon article was seemingly ... prophetic, what with the invocation to "make Impiltur great again" (Dragon 346 at page 56)and the notation that Impiltur is pursuing a policy of isolation (id.).

Edited by - Veritas on 16 Sep 2017 15:30:11
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3506 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  15:48:00  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Congratulations George, you work such magic that it almost makes the spellplague changes palatable . . . almost.

Seriously though, i love the backfiring plan of secreting away the last heir, i may keep that one for any future impiltur camapaign i decide to run.

I wonder who is aware of the magic. Was it something established by soargar that is beyond the modern mages and no one really knows what it will do. Also where does it take the last heir, cormyr perhaps.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  16:00:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Old Sarshel and New Sarshel would be at least a mile or two apart, and maybe as much as 5 miles. I would assume as the new coastal city got built-up, people from the original would have moved there... but not everyone. I would also assume as things stabilized, each specialized in certain things rather than compete (New Sarshel naturally handling anything having to do with the Sea), and it became more like a 'sprawling suburban area between two 'hubs' (and the whole thing would just be 'Sarshel'). No matter what anyone 'official' (not you GK, I'm talking in-house) says, it wouldn't NOT make sense for the two settlements to be further than that because, at first, New Sarshel would have been extremely dependent upon old Sarshel for support/supplies/workforce. So basically, one went form being the new 'waterfront' area of the other (and such things have happened historically - see Athens & Piraeus), to being a settlement in its own right, possibly out-stripping the original.

HOWEVER - the water levels are back to NORMAL, according to everything in the novels, the SCAG, and just about everything else. This means that in 5e, New Sarshel is now an underwater ruin (and they really should stop naming things 'New Sarshel', because they ALWAYS become a ruin LOL). The only way to save it is to say it was built on a fairly high piece of ground (what would have been a reef prior to 4e, and would now be a reef again), and they've either managed to use magic or some clever gnomish engineering to keep things above water, or its got a bit of a 'Venice' thing going on (my vote would be for Venice). Oh, and change the damn name from 'New Sarshel' to some thing like 'Flotsam' (or the Realms-equivalent), or maybe 'Driftwood'.

We are gonna need a lot more settlements eventually, Krash - Impiltur has managed to fall behind Sembia now, and thats pretty damn bad.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Congratulations George, you work such magic that it almost makes the spellplague changes palatable . . . almost.
The Spellplague is like something disgusting we all stepped in... and now its stuck to the bottom of our shoe.

So instead of lamenting about our old pair of shoes, we have to be happy with a brand-new pair (that we've probably been needing for awhile anyway). They're not the same old pair we loved (which is now a smelly mess in the garbage), but they're shiny, and eventually we'll break 'em in and we'll feel comfortable in them.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2017 02:41:17
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3506 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  16:30:07  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Never followed fashion before. Lets all go barefoot

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  16:55:00  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Never fear, the Heltharns learned their lessons after the death of a spate of princes prior to the Imbrar II. When the Spellplague hit, Imbrar II was killed and the realm was beset once again by a host of fiends and an attack by their old foes the hobgoblins, the heir at the time - his cousin Delimbrar (once of the Council of Lords) was hustled away by magic, faraway from the kingdom. In hindsight it was a bad call on the part of the Crown, because without a real leader the kingdom disintegrated pretty quickly and there was nothing to come back to for a long 7 or so winters as various power groups within the region pulled together and beat off the invaders, Sarshel at the forefront of the effort. That struggle was a bitter one however, and left the realm a disjointed, angry and disaffected place with the city-states going it alone and loath to lend aid to their neighbours and a huge rift emerging between the "northern faction" lead by Sarshel and the "southern faction" lead by Lyrabar. Subtle enquiries regarding the "return of the king" gained little currency and it was feared (correctly) that Delimbrar returning to the realm would mean a swift death sentence. So he never returned. His grandson Imphras is now the titular king-in-exile (Imphras VI) but whether he will ever make a return to the kingdom is doubtful. He will only do so if he manages to obtain strong backing either externally or internally and neither of those have eventuated to date.

-- George Krashos




Ummmm.... and the Brotherhood of the Griffin was JUST hired (like right after I read this) aaaaannnnnnndddddd they're rushing to re-institute him on his throne. Its said that Aoth Fezim of the brotherhood even commands a faction of Halruaan mages.

It is also said that Delimbrar has made contact with the mercenaries of the Company of the Old Gray Wolves from the barony of Polten in the country of Damara. The majority of the members of this company are a group of siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, and blood by marriage who can all trace their lineage back to the famed paladin of Torm, Agarelth of the Twilight Riders, over a century ago, who some say was Haelimbrar, one of the Lords of Imphras II. Many of the other members of this company can also trace their lineage back to the Twilight Riders, including Myrddin Viligoth, Justin M'Dael and his wife Tamarin Moonwisher. Its said that all members of this company possess a curious figurine carved of bloodstone which is capable of reproducing the famed sunhorse spell once a week, but only for one of the blood of the original twilight riders and reputedly requiring a small blood sacrifice to create the effect.

That Haelimbrar did aid in the escape of Delimbrar, despite himself being in his dotage, is well known. What is not well known is that Delimbrar then released his guardian to return to the secret family that he had left behind in Damara. During this time, Haelimbrar (as Agarelth) did return to his old friend, Myrrdin Viligoth, a former red wizard apprentice who fled the cruelty of Thay to become a spellsword paladin of Ilmater amongst the heroes known as the Twilight Riders. Myrrdin, known for his use of simulacrums to form circles, and clones to keep himself young, helped "Agarelth" regain his youth through use of a clone spell, and its said that these two are still the leaders of the Company of the Old Gray Wolves. Its also said the Delimbrar's apparent youth is due to similar involvement with Myrrdin Viligoth, though such may simply be rumors and the truth of the matter may involve potions of longevity as is said. What is without doubt is that Delimbrar's family has grown over the last century, including many great-grandsons whose minds are filled with stories of returning home and restoring Impiltur's glory.

Finally, there are even rumors that a ragtag group of Yuir half elves of both green and star elven parentage are returning to the Tsurlar Forest, also known as the Grey Forest. Its said that they all received a strange dream vision from Relkath the Many-Branched that they were to aid in the performance of a ritual under the leadership of a young druidess of the leaflord and her twin brother, a ranger-mage. It is said that the two had been born of a brief love affair between Delimbrar and a star elf princess who was later killed by assassins intent on killing the heir of Impiltur, and that they were raised in the Yuir city of Relkath's Foot by their aunt for their own protection. What this ritual will do is little known, though many speculate as to the nature of old stories revolving around the weirwood trees and the moon elves that once occupied this forest. These elves, it is said, have begun to capture dozens, if not hundreds, of the hobgoblins in the surrounding wood, and while many think this is simply securing their homeland.... others whisper of a dark requirement of the rite that they intend to perform.




Of course..... all the above is only RUMOR.... Oh, and George, if you like ANY of the above and want to use it, my ideas are freely given. As is my history of Myrrdin Viligoth as a wizard/paladin of Ilmater.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=155918&TOPIC_ID=7576&FORUM_ID=19

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Sep 2017 17:01:40
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2017 :  17:31:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Never fear, the Heltharns learned their lessons after the death of a spate of princes prior to the Imbrar II. When the Spellplague hit, Imbrar II was killed and the realm was beset once again by a host of fiends and an attack by their old foes the hobgoblins, the heir at the time - his cousin Delimbrar (once of the Council of Lords) was hustled away by magic, faraway from the kingdom. In hindsight it was a bad call on the part of the Crown, because without a real leader the kingdom disintegrated pretty quickly and there was nothing to come back to for a long 7 or so winters as various power groups within the region pulled together and beat off the invaders, Sarshel at the forefront of the effort. That struggle was a bitter one however, and left the realm a disjointed, angry and disaffected place with the city-states going it alone and loath to lend aid to their neighbours and a huge rift emerging between the "northern faction" lead by Sarshel and the "southern faction" lead by Lyrabar. Subtle enquiries regarding the "return of the king" gained little currency and it was feared (correctly) that Delimbrar returning to the realm would mean a swift death sentence. So he never returned. His grandson Imphras is now the titular king-in-exile (Imphras VI) but whether he will ever make a return to the kingdom is doubtful. He will only do so if he manages to obtain strong backing either externally or internally and neither of those have eventuated to date.

-- George Krashos




Ummmm.... and the Brotherhood of the Griffin was JUST hired (like right after I read this) aaaaannnnnnndddddd they're rushing to re-institute him on his throne. Its said that Aoth Fezim of the brotherhood even commands a faction of Halruaan mages.

It is also said that Delimbrar has made contact with the mercenaries of the Company of the Old Gray Wolves from the barony of Polten in the country of Damara. The majority of the members of this company are a group of siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles, and blood by marriage who can all trace their lineage back to the famed paladin of Torm, Agarelth of the Twilight Riders, over a century ago, who some say was Haelimbrar, one of the Lords of Imphras II. Many of the other members of this company can also trace their lineage back to the Twilight Riders, including Myrddin Viligoth, Justin M'Dael and his wife Tamarin Moonwisher. Its said that all members of this company possess a curious figurine carved of bloodstone which is capable of reproducing the famed sunhorse spell once a week, but only for one of the blood of the original twilight riders and reputedly requiring a small blood sacrifice to create the effect.

It is also rumored that the heir of Donlevy the Younger, baron of Polten after the Bloodstone Wars, did send a pair of twins, a son and daughter, to the village of Tellerth to be raised in secret by Agarelth (aka Haelimbrar) during the wailing years. It is whispered that this son married a daughter of Haelimbrar's bloodline and that the daughter married a grandson of Myrrdin Viligoth. Furthermore, it is whispered that if Delimbrar returns to power in Impiltur that the Barony of Polten may break away from the kingdom of Damara and swear allegiance to Impiltur.

That Haelimbrar did aid in the escape of Delimbrar, despite himself being in his dotage, is well known. What is not well known is that Delimbrar then released his guardian to return to the secret family that he had left behind in Damara. During this time, Haelimbrar (as Agarelth) did return to his old friend, Myrrdin Viligoth, a former red wizard apprentice who fled the cruelty of Thay to become a spellsword paladin of Ilmater amongst the heroes known as the Twilight Riders. Myrrdin, known for his use of simulacrums to form circles, and clones to keep himself young, helped "Agarelth" regain his youth through use of a clone spell, and its said that these two are still the leaders of the Company of the Old Gray Wolves. Its also said the Delimbrar's apparent youth is due to similar involvement with Myrrdin Viligoth, though such may simply be rumors and the truth of the matter may involve potions of longevity as is said. What is without doubt is that Delimbrar's family has grown over the last century, including many great-grandsons whose minds are filled with stories of returning home and restoring Impiltur's glory.

Finally, there are even rumors that a ragtag group of Yuir half elves of both green and star elven parentage are returning to the Tsurlar Forest, also known as the Grey Forest. Its said that they all received a strange dream vision from Relkath the Many-Branched that they were to aid in the performance of a ritual under the leadership of a young druidess of the leaflord and her twin brother, a ranger-mage. It is said that the two had been born of a brief love affair between Delimbrar and a star elf noble who was later killed by assassins intent on killing the heir of Impiltur, and that they were raised in the Yuir city of Relkath's Foot by their aunt for their own protection. What this ritual will do is little known, though many speculate as to the nature of old stories revolving around the weirwood trees and the moon elves that once occupied this forest. These elves, it is said, have begun to capture dozens, if not hundreds, of the hobgoblins in the surrounding wood, and while many think this is simply securing their homeland.... others whisper of a dark requirement of the rite that they intend to perform.




Of course..... all the above is only RUMOR.... Oh, and George, if you like ANY of the above and want to use it, my ideas are freely given. As is my history of Myrrdin Viligoth as a wizard/paladin of Ilmater.

http://forum.candlekeep.com/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=155918&TOPIC_ID=7576&FORUM_ID=19


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 16 Sep 2017 17:55:17
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  02:45:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So good he had to quote himself.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2017 02:45:18
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
717 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  03:05:53  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

HOWEVER - the water levels are back to NORMAL, according to everything in the novels, the SCAG, and just about everything else. This means that in 5e, New Sarshel is now an underwater ruin (and they really should stop naming things 'New Sarshel', because they ALWAYS become a ruin LOL). The only way to save it is to say it was built on a fairly high piece of ground (what would have been a reef prior to 4e, and would now be a reef again), and they've either managed to use magic or some clever gnomish engineering to keep things above water, or its got a bit of a 'Venice' thing going on (my vote would be for Venice).


I guess this problem will also affect the new district of Lyrabar, as well.

There is a map of New Sarchel in the LFR adventures. If you want it, I can gladly give it to you. Warning, it will cause you a headache. The two Sarchels are nearly one another.


Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Sep 2017 03:09:59
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4908 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  03:14:20  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

I guess this problem will also affect the new district of Lyrabar, as well.

There is a map of New Sarchel in the LFR adventures. If you want it, I can gladly give it to you. Warning, it will cause you a headache. The two Sarchels are nearly one another.




Zeromaru would you be able to send it to me please at krashos@optusnet.com.au

That would be awesome and much appreciated.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
717 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  03:22:37  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Zeromaru would you be able to send it to me please at krashos@optusnet.com.au

That would be awesome and much appreciated.

-- George Krashos



Done

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  05:53:18  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Me as well - Markustay2012@Hotmail.com - if you can, Zero. We need to know what things looked like during the 'Lost Century', so I know how to interpret them moving forward. Which reminds me - I meant to post a WIP of the 5e continental map.

You know what I did yesterday? I made a map of Verbobonc... because I wanted a map similar to Verbobonc! (so first I had to re-do the official one, and then found a couple of newer ones - GH has some of the same problems we do, to a lesser extent - stuff changed after the GH Wars).

Anyhow, settlements are a nice change of pace for me.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2017 17:24:20
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Zeromaru X
Senior Scribe

Colombia
717 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  06:05:24  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Markus, is your email account correct? I've tried twice, but the gmail says that the direction is wrong or something.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Sep 2017 06:06:16
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4908 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  12:34:53  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Zeromaru. Well that goes down as one of the least inspired map changes I've ever seen. The Spellplague made them shift one mile south. Given that the oceans receded, Old Sarshel should have been west of their new location, not south. Do people actually ever think about these things ...?!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 17 Sep 2017 12:35:20
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5983 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  13:49:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Thanks Zeromaru. Well that goes down as one of the least inspired map changes I've ever seen. The Spellplague made them shift one mile south. Given that the oceans receded, Old Sarshel should have been west of their new location, not south. Do people actually ever think about these things ...?!

-- George Krashos



No.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30290 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  17:12:32  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Thanks Zeromaru. Well that goes down as one of the least inspired map changes I've ever seen. The Spellplague made them shift one mile south. Given that the oceans receded, Old Sarshel should have been west of their new location, not south. Do people actually ever think about these things ...?!

-- George Krashos



It is my opinion, based on what I've seen and what I've heard from certain folks who will remain unnamed, that there was very little thought applied to the actual consequences of the Spellplague. It was more of a "we'll make changes by doing this, and not even think of anything beyond our changes!"

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  17:23:14  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pasted from the other thread...
You're probably not going to like this (I have a feeling you're more adverse to 'change' than I am), but what if Impiltur loses Lyrabar? If its not the capital anymore, why not run with that (because although I am happy the geography is 'restored', I find the whole "everything is as it was" thing patently ridiculous!)

I know your first reaction is going to be "no friggin way" (do they say 'friggin' in Oz?), but hear me out - I never liked Lyrabar. Its not a personal thing - I just found it weird that the only Impiltur city OUTSIDE of Impiltur is the capital. YES, I know its technically within Impiltur, but geographically, it makes little sense - there is a 'pinch point' there with the mountains and coast that separates The Vast from Impiltur, and Lyrabar is on the far side of that. In your new 'North vs South' Impiltur, why not cut it free (this has happened elsewhere in the Realms now)? Maybe its just become 'more trouble than its worth' (since the Spellplague, and the capital no longer being there, its population has fallen off, and maybe its even become a haven for pirates and other illicit activities).

THEN (6e?), you can have a 'return of the king' scenario somewhere down the line, where he (or she) wants to restore the former capital, which most parties would be dead-set against. In fact, you could even have an heir living in the city already, under an alias.

And at the end of the day, is anyone going to really care if the Vast gains one more 'independent citystate'? At least this one will have an interesting history (YES, I know all about Raven's Bluff), and a certain political intrigue going on that the others are missing (a city of 'factions'). Whereas the rest of a 'restored Impiltur' may look at Lyrabar as a 'thorn in their paw' at this point, a returned monarch may decide to 'embrace the thorn', for better or worse (giving us some very cool RPG possibilities there).

One last thing - if the place has 'fallen', and their economy is now heavily based on illicit activity, the government (a returning King) may have to 'walk on eggs' for awhile, because restoring 'Law & Order' could completely tank the place, financially. That would be a tightrope-walk right there (and now that I am thinking fully about this, I think I just gave Impiltur its own version of Marsember... with a twist).


quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Markus, is your email account correct? I've tried twice, but the gmail says that the direction is wrong or something.
UGH - I combined my current one with an old (defunct) one. Apologies...

Markustay2012@Hotmail.com

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2017 17:23:29
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  17:28:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can fix that, no worries. I plan to do lots and lots of 'map magic' to get stuff to work-out, lore wise (and save quite a bit as well).

Which is why I reposted that bit above from the other thread. Cliffs are going to come in pretty damn handy along the northern Sea of Fallen Stars.

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Thanks Zeromaru. Well that goes down as one of the least inspired map changes I've ever seen. The Spellplague made them shift one mile south. Given that the oceans receded, Old Sarshel should have been west of their new location, not south. Do people actually ever think about these things ...?!
NO

And I guess thats a good thing, because I'd be out of a (non-paying) job.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
14187 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  17:29:45  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just did a few quick calculations (its a damn shame designers don't have the internet... or a calculator...). The water level dropped by 50', right? that means for New Sarshel to make sense, the slope of the 'beach' there would have had to have been 1' of drop per 105.6'. In construction, we have 'pitches' of roofs rated from '1' to '12'; the first number being how far the roof drops per foot (12"). A LEGAL wheelchair also requires a pitch no steeper than 1" per 1' (called a 'One Pitch' in roofing, which is negligible and considered flat - in fact, anything under a '5' is considered a 'flat roof' for materials purposes). When I walk around on a roof with a '1 pitch' it feels flat to my body (no stress on the ankles, etc). The pitch the LFR guys are proposing there is slightly over 20 times that.

Or rather, 20 times 'less steep' then what your body would recognize as 'flat ground'. This means Old Sarshel would NOT have been able to EVER have had a harbor. I know, I know... I seem to have learned some sort of ancient, secret magic called 'MATH'.

Fun fact - at a 'gentle slope' (a mere '3 pitch', or a drop of three inches per foot, which is what I am guesstimating going by beaches I am familiar with), a drop in water of 50' would require only 200' or less being built from the original location. In fact, now that I am finally 'doing the math' over a decade later, in most cases, all they would have had to do is extend the docks.

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

t is my opinion, based on what I've seen and what I've heard from certain folks who will remain unnamed, that there was very little thought applied to the actual consequences of the Spellplague. It was more of a "we'll make changes by doing this, and not even think of anything beyond our changes!"
Very similar to what happens when you have unprotected sex.

Could get sick and die, could get a very ugly baby.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 17 Sep 2017 18:11:14
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3506 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2017 :  17:37:42  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Why did we have to get lumbered with the ugly baby, this is what old grognards are for, to prevent serious miscarriages of logic, reason, and sanity.

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