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KanzenAU
Senior Scribe

Australia
744 Posts

Posted - 13 Jul 2016 :  10:16:19  Show Profile Send KanzenAU a Private Message
Spoilers for Death Masks in questions hidden below!

Greetings Lady THO and Ed,
I fear greatly the fall of an NDA here, but I have to give this question a try. If you'll forgive me, I'll shoot a few to try and hit a target.

In Death Masks, we discover that the gods' attitude towards resurrection has changed, and priests will now only assent to ask their gods to resurrect those who enjoy that god's "personal blessing". At the very least, this applies to priests of Lurue and Valkur, but the impression given is that potentially all the gods hold this disposition (with the exception of Mystra, who seems to not even extend her favour in this regard to those that do hold her personal blessing). This has HUGE implications for D&D players in the Realms - the party cleric seemingly no longer has the power to bring someone back from the dead, unless they're all followers of the same deity, and enjoy that deity's blessing.

My questions are:
1. Can you clarify in what circumstances a god (Tymora, for example) would deign to resurrect someone? How "personally blessed" does one have to be?
2. Does this mean that, once knowledge of this becomes more widespread, the way people follow gods will change, in that people will begin to focus their prayers on a single deity?
3. How would a cleric of Tymora discover this change?
4. And what would that cleric learn of it?


I somehow anticipate that we may have to wait for future novels or sourcebooks to learn more about this, but any information you can succour us with would be appreciated!

Regional maps for Waterdeep, Triboar, Ardeep Forest, and Cormyr on DM's Guild, plus a campaign sized map for the North
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3601 Posts

Posted - 20 Jul 2016 :  09:37:19  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO,

A few questions on netheril and its legacies which might solve a few conundrums for me.

Number 1. Whats the deal with Lundeth. Where does the fire connection for Kossuth worshippers come from. Is it a crashed enclave (bearing in mind i dont subscribe to the line that all enclaves are massive cities) or some underground research lab from Netheril. I reckon during the discovery era that many netherese dabbled with thr extraplanar and in many cases it got out of hand.

Number 2 - There are two locations in anauroch that begin with Hlaunga (cant remember the actual name sorry). One is way up north on what would have been the north shore of the narrow sea. The other is around central anauroch. Both are filled with lamia. The northern one is said to have been an independent city i think after netherils fall and is also said to be a fallen enclave.
Whats the story or connection with these two places, if any. Did an enclave fall in the southern hlaunga, get reactivated by the lamia that moved in and then flown north where it crashed or landed amid the ruins of a city of netheril survivors.

Number 3 - where was the 4th member of the trio nefarious imprisoned. Is he a famous npc of the modern realms. Was he later (after the fall) in service to a famous trio of anti hero adventurers, a necromancer, an assassin, and a warlord.

Wishing you and yours well, including your new baby TEGG

Your faithful scribe

Gary

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Edited by - dazzlerdal on 20 Jul 2016 09:46:01
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4948 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  01:21:13  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Number 3 - where was the 4th member of the trio nefarious imprisoned.


Is that like asking who was the 5th Beatle?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Thauramarth
Senior Scribe

United Kingdom
654 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  14:38:23  Show Profile Send Thauramarth a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Number 3 - where was the 4th member of the trio nefarious imprisoned.


Is that like asking who was the 5th Beatle?

-- George Krashos

Or the fourth musketeer! Oh, hold on a second..

Club Secretary of the Dragons on the Hill RPG Club of London, UK: http://dragonsonthehill.co.uk/.
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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1362 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  14:49:32  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message
I see what you did there.
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3601 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  14:52:40  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message
Not quite, Ed has previously confirmed that the trio nefarious are body hopping yugoloths that have a powerful item or ability provided by their patron.
There was originally 4 members of the group but the other three that came to be known as the trio nefarious, overpowered their leader and kept him unconscious and imprisomed somewhere so he couldnt use his body swapping powers to escape.

Now i know who i think the fourth member is, but it would be nice to know where he was imprisoned even if its just a general region, as it gives an approximation of where he was summoned and i might be able to infer other information from the response.


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  21:58:44  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
It was actually our lovely Lady Hooded One, who also noted it may not be canon:

quote:
I recall overhearing an informal chat in one of the lounges at GenCon, involving Ed and several of the company designers of the time, explaining something about the Trio to a licensee (computer game designer?).
What was said boiled down to this:

The Trio Nefarious were actually FOUR nycaloths who had acquired ancient magic (devised by someone else) that allowed them to "take over" the bodies of other nycaloths for short periods, putting the minds in those bodies into comas. So they could use a borrowed body to fight or do some other dangerous deed, and then discard it for another or for a return to their own. The magic that enabled them to do this also protected their minds from some hostile mind-affecting magics (charms, illusions, and attempts to influence or control), enabling them to withstand some attacks better than a "normal" nycaloth. The three active members of the Trio had overcome the fourth, who was the smartest, leaving the fourth as a comatose body they could all flee into, or take over permanently, if need be.
All three of them had made some sort of blood pact enforcing their loyalty to each other, and they spent much of their time acquiring all sorts of magic items, so as to be walking arsenals of magic with ready access to several hidden caches of magic, so they could take on most archmages and other nycaloths and expect to prevail.
Aside from this cunning and magical augmentation, they were no different than other nycaloths, but were thought by some human and elven survivors of encounters with them to be a more powerful sort or form of nycaloth (hence the "greater" sobriquet).
I'm not sure if this is canon, or was ever put into print anywhere. Ed mainly listened rather than talking (although he never disagreed or "corrected" any of this), and Steven Schend wasn't there, so this may not be "official" Realmslore . . . but I regard it as so.
love,
THO

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The Masked Mage
Master of Realmslore

USA
1362 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  02:00:53  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message
I've never seen nor heard anything about that before, so I'm doubting it was ever printed in cannon sources. Still - as it comes from the mind of Ed of the Greenwood it is the real deal to me :)
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3601 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  08:04:24  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message
Thank you wooly for finding that for me (ive been trying to refind it for ages). I dont suppose you know which year it is in.

I personally love it as a piece of lore as it presents so many possibilities and it nicelu explaims the background of one of the modern realms villains as well (1360s modern).

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  10:18:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Thank you wooly for finding that for me (ive been trying to refind it for ages). I dont suppose you know which year it is in.

I personally love it as a piece of lore as it presents so many possibilities and it nicelu explaims the background of one of the modern realms villains as well (1360s modern).



I created the file on January 15th, 2010.

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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6215 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  13:29:41  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message
In death masks, there's a short blurb at the beginning (I haven't gotten all the way through, but wanted to ask this before I forget). The blurb is something along the lines that Elminster's main purpose in Waterdeep is to help some individual whose sanity is scattered (or something to that effect). Just checking is that a reference to Halaster?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4948 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  14:55:27  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

In death masks, there's a short blurb at the beginning (I haven't gotten all the way through, but wanted to ask this before I forget). The blurb is something along the lines that Elminster's main purpose in Waterdeep is to help some individual whose sanity is scattered (or something to that effect). Just checking is that a reference to Halaster?



No. Another famous wizard. Surprising, but famous. He likes swords and hounds.

-- George

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
6215 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  20:31:26  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

In death masks, there's a short blurb at the beginning (I haven't gotten all the way through, but wanted to ask this before I forget). The blurb is something along the lines that Elminster's main purpose in Waterdeep is to help some individual whose sanity is scattered (or something to that effect). Just checking is that a reference to Halaster?



No. Another famous wizard. Surprising, but famous. He likes swords and hounds.

-- George Krashos



Hounds? A Harpell by chance? Guess it does get revealed later in the book then, so I'll read ahead tonight.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2909 Posts

Posted - 22 Jul 2016 :  22:57:35  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
Those Ravenloft Domains can drive a Mage bonkers!

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep

Edited by - Brimstone on 22 Jul 2016 22:58:48
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2066 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2016 :  04:33:57  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message
is there anything that you can spoil us with about the stormtalons setting?

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2016 :  18:07:55  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
I'm not Ed, obviously, but I can give you some basics...
Stormtalons launches with Ed's novel WORDS OF UNBINDING. It's a swords&sorcery medieval-cum-Renaissance fantasy world, closest in feel to the Realms of Ed's initial 16 TEGG settings, but it is NOT the Realms.
First: very few gods. As in: Six (there are some cults and nigh-forgotten gods, but they are aspects of the six).
Second: low-magic. The priests of the Six rule a land called Rheligor (Amish-like bucolic farmland, but EVERYTHING is controlled) and they oppose a mighty archwizard, the Heirophar, and prevent him from becoming tyrant of the world. If you are a mage and use your magic for minor mendings, you'll get left alone, but if you publicly hurl lightning bolts or fireballs, the Heirophar's nearest hit team shows up and gives you the on-the-spot choice of working for him, or dying (right now). So D&D wizards are few and hide what they are, or they work for the Heirophar (and there's nothing like a warlock in the setting).
Third: elves aren't haughty thin folk who feud with surly bearded hard-drinking dwarves (elves, dwarves, and orcs/goblins are in the setting, yes, but the usual D&D tropes aren't on display).
Fourth: no D&D dragons. There are "brute dragons" (can be fought, tamed as steeds, or eaten; no spells, not smart) and there are the Sleeping Dragons beneath the earth, who are magical powerhouses, legend insists, and who when they awaken will overthrow the Heirophar, most folk hope...
And that's about all the quickie stuff I know, that I can share. The place has Ed-level detail and about 60 novels planned so far, many of them by names that will be familiar to game fiction readers...
With Realms novels getting few and far between, I'd look to the DM's Guild for Ed short tales every November, and to Stormtalons for my regular reading fix. What I've read of Ed's first book had me liking it better than most recent Realms novels...(but that's personal opinion, of course).
The place to look for more on all TEGG stuff is onderLibrum.com
love to all,
THO

Edited by - The Hooded One on 23 Jul 2016 18:09:51
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3601 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2016 :  18:24:55  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message
As soon as there is a sourcebook for stormtalons it will be my second favourite place to practice my world building skills on

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2735 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2016 :  18:33:36  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message
Sounds like an intriguing world. Hellmaw just isn't my genre, but I'll definitely check Stormtalons, when it comes out.

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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2909 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2016 :  23:07:39  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message
I am now even more intrigued...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2059 Posts

Posted - 23 Jul 2016 :  23:38:31  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message
I'm going to have to keep this all in mind.
So is it offical that the Realms novels are coming to an end, and we will have to look to the DMsGuild for updates?

Sweet water and light laughter
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  00:14:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I'm going to have to keep this all in mind.
So is it offical that the Realms novels are coming to an end, and we will have to look to the DMsGuild for updates?



I still haven't seen anything to that effect, anywhere.

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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  00:22:43  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message
Few and far between does not equal the end of the world.
As we all know, only demon lords, dark deities, and other things that go bump in the dark places of the realms can truly end the world.

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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2059 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  00:47:17  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I'm going to have to keep this all in mind.
So is it offical that the Realms novels are coming to an end, and we will have to look to the DMsGuild for updates?



I still haven't seen anything to that effect, anywhere.



That's why I am asking.

Sweet water and light laughter
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rodrigoalcanza
Seeker

Brazil
59 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  16:10:08  Show Profile Send rodrigoalcanza a Private Message
Hello everyone!

Some time ago, I read here in the forum, a message sent by The Hooded One, made by Ed Greenwood, and was a great explanation of arcane writings, and as spells were written in the spellbooks. Ed detailing the magic writing included parts of the languages of the various magical races, such as dragons and elves. Does anyone know where I find this post?
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30430 Posts

Posted - 24 Jul 2016 :  17:39:03  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
Is this the post you're referring to?

quote:
Hello again, all. Ed was offline for the better part of a day (an electrical storm fried an aging iMac power supply, and he was too busy with other things to swap the hard drive out into ANOTHER aging iMac, so as to get all his Net ISP settings back), but he's surfaced now, just in time to answer Zanan's query:


Spells are written in an everchanging "pidgin" language derived from Auld Wyrm/Auld Wyrmish (sometimes called "Auld High Wyrmish" or "Old Draconic"), words augmented by runes/sigils that carry their own magical charges AND have a meaning in an incantation, akin to modern real-world picto-symbols for access, washrooms, this or that banned, et al (though they usually mean something like "that phrase [of the incantation, just spoken] is validated and empowered thus" or "empowered and comined with [the next phrase of the incantation") which is why "read magic" was a different spell than "comprehend languages."
An incantation is "read" by enunciating the words of the incantation, and visualizing (or touching) each rune/sigil AS the name of the rune/sigil is uttered, as they occur in the written spell (which releases their "trigger" magic to affect ("steer and shape") the building power of the natural forces of the world that is being raised and combined by the incantation into an eventual effect.
The language of the incantation (not counting these rune/sigil names) consists of verbs and articles mainly of elder draconic origin, plus a vocabulary of nouns (and a few verbs and articles) added by many workers-in-magic down the years. Some of these added words are elvish, some are human, and a very few (gems, mainly) are dwarven or from the gnome tongue. This language, like all languages, changes over time, as many new words are added, a few are forgotten, and a few fall out of favour. Many of the newer words are "nonsense" words coined by individual human mages, that get taken up and used by others; if someone used to wielding the Art ("arcane magic spellcaster") reads a spell scroll or written spell without actually casting it, the meanings of the words are conveyed faintly to them, unfolding in their brains (which is how someone can trigger not just explosive runes, but a harmful or beneficial glyph).
The point is that the spell CRAFTER (not caster, if they are different beings) must know/feel/be able to visualize what each word represents, be it a thing, a force, a transformation, or a desired result (for instance, the incantation phrase "aumma drood hethtarl [barrander] khehk'tal" literally means: ruby (the gem), melt it, to produce only a red vapor and heat, [name of rune, that means: applying the flesh-affecting ability this derived chemical possesses, to all of the energies of the building spell], unchanged in effects). So it's quite possible for a drow caster to use drow words in an incantation, or a dwarf to replace some words with dwarven runes (different from the "power runes"/sigils of the spell), or any spellcaster to use a family or personal nonsense word that THEY know the meaning of, when writing down spells.
So the answer is: there's no one "language of magic," but there's a jargon for incanting that's perhaps 40 percent nonsense words ("nonsense" to non-workers-in-magic, as in: invented, not part of any merely spoken language), 30 percent human, 12 percent elder draconic, 8 percent elven (various dialects, usually old word forms), and 10 percent drawn from all other tongues.
A speaker of any of these tongues who does not have the gift of handling the Art could "sort of" understand "their" words in an incantation, but only partially (for instance, an old drow word for "violent fall" of a stalactite [the equivalent of "crash down on whatever's below"] might be used in an incantation to mean "dash down" [that is, I want this my spell to violently and damagingly smash something down on what's below]; the meaning is similar but not identical, and could be misunderstood out of context).
In the "good old days," game designers actually sat down (often over drinks), and discussed all of this, so we'd be on the same page when writing, even though the early publishing codes prevented anything really specific being printed about "casting spells/working witchcraft." This has ALWAYS been "how it's worked in the Realms," with Ruathlek being an illusionist's "code" version of wizards' magical lingo, and I got TSR staff designers to agree to this back in 1986, but . . . personnel change, companies change, agreements get forgotten and new people never even know they exist, and so on . . .
Work for you? Post right back if you have more questions, and I'll be happy to talk this through.


So saith Ed. Who DOES think about all of this stuff, folks. Truly.
love to all,
THO


The date on my file is 10-27-08, so the post was from on or around that date.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Jul 2016 17:40:04
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