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Evrat
Seeker

France
45 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2015 :  10:09:41  Show Profile Send Evrat a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was looking for some informations about the Sage, and I didn't find exactly when he came first to Shadowdale ?

In the R.O chronology I found

331 DR [Year of the Cold Clashes]
Elminster leaves Cormanthyr (Myth Drannor) for the first time in seventy years at Mystra's insistence. »

712 DR [Year of the Lost Lance]
Ches 4 Dawn at Erolith's Knoll (Weeping War: Campaign #4)
A.K.A.: The Fight atop Erolith's Mound, Rise of the Dales


What appen during this 2 dates ? when he settled in Shadowadle the first time ?

K.R

Evrat

hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2015 :  15:21:11  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Grand History of the Realms states that Elminster retired to Shadowdale in 1350 DR but Code of the Harpers says that he had often used Shadowdale as a base before then.

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Evrat
Seeker

France
45 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2015 :  18:25:26  Show Profile Send Evrat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I knew it, but in the Grand History, they called him already The Sage of Shadowdale before 1350... he took his retirement, he was may be active before ?

A mistake ?
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5672 Posts

Posted - 18 Nov 2015 :  23:46:14  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It was a term of description, not an indication that he was the "Sage of Shadowdale" before the stated date.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2139 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2015 :  02:06:43  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Descriptions of Sylune and Storm both state that Sylune was a full time resident of Shadowdale before Elminster. The only date ever given that i can find about that is when she "died" defending the dale. The 1350 Date sounds about right given that.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5672 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2015 :  04:00:40  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Descriptions of Sylune and Storm both state that Sylune was a full time resident of Shadowdale before Elminster. The only date ever given that i can find about that is when she "died" defending the dale. The 1350 Date sounds about right given that.



The 1350 DR date was first noted in the 3E FRCS (p.271).

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
206 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2015 :  20:42:42  Show Profile  Visit Asharak's Homepage Send Asharak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The only mention I found during this period is in "Sea of Fallen Stars" p. 23:

"Ilbratha was lost until, nearly 200 winters later, when the sage Thallastam of Procampur was offered the blade for 1,500 gp by a peddler from a nearby town who seemed ignorant of its true nature. During the summer of the Year of the Zealous (550 DR), Thallastam brought the blade to Elminster, the only fellow Loremaster interested in swords whom Thallastam trusted.
Elminster identified the blade from the writings of King Azoun I. The old king's great-grandson now claimed the Purple Dragon's throne, and Thallastam bore it back toward Procampur by way of Tilver's Gap and Essembra. However, Thallastam did not reach Procampur. His ruined diary, staff, and a skeleton were found some years later when the Pool of Yeven in Battledale was dragged, but the sword was not there."

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.

Edited by - Asharak on 20 Nov 2015 20:43:02
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Asharak
Learned Scribe

France
206 Posts

Posted - 20 Nov 2015 :  21:06:36  Show Profile  Visit Asharak's Homepage Send Asharak a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So it seems Elminster is already settled in Shadowdale in 550...

"Soyez réalistes : demandez l'impossible"

Sorry for my English... it's not my native tongue.

Edited by - Asharak on 20 Nov 2015 21:07:04
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5672 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2015 :  01:14:45  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If you accept that in 550 DR the term "Tilver's Gap" extended to the region that is now Mistledale, why couldn't Thallastam have brought it to Elminster in Myth Drannor?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2139 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2015 :  03:18:19  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Myth Drannor and Shadowdale are neighbors. Anything that could be done in one could be in another at that date. At any rate, we know that El was in Myth Drannor at this time learning magic with the Srinshee and the Seven Wizards from the arcane age books. The only mention of Shadowdale around this time period concerns The Twisted Tower and the continual conflict with drow there.
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Evrat
Seeker

France
45 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2015 :  08:50:02  Show Profile Send Evrat a Private Message  Reply with Quote
it's why. I suppose the shadowdale was not a very nice region to live in this period even for Elminster
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
4862 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2015 :  09:25:07  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What I wouldn't give for some detail on the lands under shadow and the spider haunt woods of today

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5672 Posts

Posted - 21 Nov 2015 :  22:21:58  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage

Myth Drannor and Shadowdale are neighbors. Anything that could be done in one could be in another at that date. At any rate, we know that El was in Myth Drannor at this time learning magic with the Srinshee and the Seven Wizards from the arcane age books. The only mention of Shadowdale around this time period concerns The Twisted Tower and the continual conflict with drow there.



There is no Shadowdale in 550 DR.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2139 Posts

Posted - 24 Nov 2015 :  03:00:40  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Its not a Dale yet, but it is a place, and a hotly contested one for thousands of years.

The Twisted Tower was under construction -2600 DR. From there came the "Spiderfires" that cut the woods apart (and created the places that would eventually be settled by the Dalesmen). Coronal Sakrattars died fighting them 500 years later and that's where the warblade was lost. By -750 DR the drow are once again on the rise. By about -500 the Shadowwars have started there. In -330 the followers of Eilistrae take over, but that only lasts a few hundred years. In 1 DR the Standing stone is raised just a hop skip and a jump from the Twisted Tower and the Dales are founded (I would assume there were some people living there about or why put it there. 500 DR is when Josidiah Starym goes spelunking under the tower. In 713 DR the naughty drow are back and the region is called "Lands Under Shadow". In 906 DR the drow are driven from the tower again and they name the region Shadowdale.

Now Elminster left Myth Drannor in about 300 DR - and then sets about the stuff in the Temptation novel. Other than that we have no idea what he's up to until the founding of the Harpers at Twilight in 720 DR. We have a few other El spottings over the centuries but we know he retires to Shadowdale in 1350 DR. Somewhere in there he takes the time to raise the sisters, a couple of who end up calling Shadowdale home (coincidence?). The reason he does this, we know from Eds books, is that Shadowdale is a place of power (there are several unique magical things in the area we see in novels), and he is there somewhat as a guardian.

Now. Most we know he'd been there in the past and he ended up there. I for one assume he was there on and off, checking in on these places of power once a year or decade or something, all along. I also assume Shadowdale is at least one of the places he lived with the sisters... my personal belief is he raises them in what eventually is called Storm's house, but that has no real basis.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5672 Posts

Posted - 25 Nov 2015 :  17:44:54  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The events of "The Temptation of Elminster" occur in 759 DR and 767 DR. Elminster is back in Myth Drannor for the Weeping War. Elminster raised Dove, Laeral and Storm beginning in 767 DR and continuing through at least 780 DR in the North. Khelben in disguise cared for Sylune from 772 DR. By 806 DR, Laeral has gone out on her own and founded the realm of Stornanter. In the 850s DR, Elminster is teaching Sammaster. In 1179 DR, Elminster is fighting malaugrym in Waterdeep and then the Harpstar Wars kick off.

Personally, I think that Elminster spends most of the early 800s DR in or around Waterdeep and Silverymoon and then in the mid-800s DR goes back to the Dalelands, Sembia and Cormyr regions (operating in assumed guises). There is a huge gap in Shadowdale's history between 940 DR and the late 1200s DR (we don't know who held the lordship of the dale between Ashaba and Joadath) and I suspect that Elminster flitted around the Dale (keeping watch on the drow, assessing developments with Tethyamar, checking on Myth Drannor) throughout this period.

Of course, we should ask Ed if he's got any lore on the topic readily at his fingertips, but I know that he's frightfully time poor at the moment.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader

USA
2139 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2015 :  05:20:58  Show Profile  Send The Masked Mage an AOL message  Click to see The Masked Mage's MSN Messenger address Send The Masked Mage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

The events of "The Temptation of Elminster" occur in 759 DR and 767 DR. Elminster is back in Myth Drannor for the Weeping War. Elminster raised Dove, Laeral and Storm beginning in 767 DR and continuing through at least 780 DR in the North. Khelben in disguise cared for Sylune from 772 DR. By 806 DR, Laeral has gone out on her own and founded the realm of Stornanter. In the 850s DR, Elminster is teaching Sammaster. In 1179 DR, Elminster is fighting malaugrym in Waterdeep and then the Harpstar Wars kick off.

Personally, I think that Elminster spends most of the early 800s DR in or around Waterdeep and Silverymoon and then in the mid-800s DR goes back to the Dalelands, Sembia and Cormyr regions (operating in assumed guises). There is a huge gap in Shadowdale's history between 940 DR and the late 1200s DR (we don't know who held the lordship of the dale between Ashaba and Joadath) and I suspect that Elminster flitted around the Dale (keeping watch on the drow, assessing developments with Tethyamar, checking on Myth Drannor) throughout this period.

Of course, we should ask Ed if he's got any lore on the topic readily at his fingertips, but I know that he's frightfully time poor at the moment.

-- George Krashos



Good stuff -

Yeah - I'm already waiting on possible answers on 3 ?s on Ed's scroll so I'll leave that alone :)
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1114 Posts

Posted - 27 Nov 2015 :  15:43:56  Show Profile  Visit hashimashadoo's Homepage  Click to see hashimashadoo's MSN Messenger address Send hashimashadoo a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Khelben in disguise cared for Sylune from 772 DR.



I thought Steven Schend said Khelben was looking after Sylune from 775 DR in his identity as Hauliyr “the Old Witch”.

When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5672 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2015 :  03:07:49  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Khelben in disguise cared for Sylune from 772 DR.



I thought Steven Schend said Khelben was looking after Sylune from 775 DR in his identity as Hauliyr “the Old Witch”.



Hmm, not sure where you get that date from. Steven's Arunsun clan notes don't specify when he started teaching Sylune and I first gave the event a date back in my North Timeline (more than a decade ago now).


But if Steven says it's 775 DR, then 775 DR it is.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
32658 Posts

Posted - 28 Nov 2015 :  06:51:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Here's the reference:

quote:
Dates: c748 - c808
Identity: Hauliyr "the Old Witch"
Notes: Helped raise some of the 7 sisters at this lifetime; primarily responsible for raising the girl Syluné after the Harper Thamator the Old could not raise her as a ranger, so Khelben as Hauliyr taught her magic from 775 until "death" in 808.


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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 28 Nov 2015 06:51:43
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