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Veritas
Learned Scribe

195 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2015 :  19:00:47  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, video games had always been separate from the "official" storyline beforehand. They may reference it (like HoTU mentioned the Silence of Lolth around 2002-2003), but they were more like "what if" features.
Now that WoTC has made the multiplatform approach front and center, that might signal, for example, that the storyline for SCL is included in the sweep of official Realmslore.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2555 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2015 :  19:19:03  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas

Well, video games had always been separate from the "official" storyline beforehand. They may reference it (like HoTU mentioned the Silence of Lolth around 2002-2003), but they were more like "what if" features.
Now that WoTC has made the multiplatform approach front and center, that might signal, for example, that the storyline for SCL is included in the sweep of official Realmslore.



Yes, that's exactly what I meant, meaning that they are on par with novels atm.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2015 :  20:04:30  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Quite honestly, I thought that was a given. In the past WotC didn't seem to care for a multi-platform approach, but now that they seem to be invested into it, VG plots are on the same level as novels, and WotC has full control over those storylines. I remember reading a post from THO somewhere on these forums, saying that WotC could rewrite a novel word by word and still publish it under the author's name. I figure that they have the same rights with other plots considered ''official''.


quote:
Originally posted by Veritas

Well, video games had always been separate from the "official" storyline beforehand. They may reference it (like HoTU mentioned the Silence of Lolth around 2002-2003), but they were more like "what if" features.
Now that WoTC has made the multiplatform approach front and center, that might signal, for example, that the storyline for SCL is included in the sweep of official Realmslore.



quote:
Originally posted by Irennan


Yes, that's exactly what I meant, meaning that they are on par with novels atm.



Hmmm, interesting. May or may not be good thing depending on how we look at it. On the good side, it might give us more iteresting lore, and may be better than if a game was adapted through novel adaptation, as seen with the infamous Baldur's Gate novels(and the Planescape Torment one, although that's from Planescape, but connected in many ways).

On the other hand, if WoTC will have so much creative control, this may clip the creative wings of the developers...It musn't necesarily though.
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
199 Posts

Posted - 28 Oct 2015 :  22:03:03  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I find the multi-platform/media approach to be a terrible way to tell a story. It's one thing when it's all one format, a la Marvel's shared cinematic universe. There's spin-off stuff, sure, but keeping it almost strictly to TV/movies means any collective narrative is accessible to just about anyone who wishes to follow the larger story (you need a TV and a movie player). Telling a story across various media that, in many, have exceedingly niche-y appeal neuters your story right off the bat.

Frankly I find WotC to be abjectly awful storytellers in the first place, so spreading their stories around thins them so much you'd be hard pressed to even find them now. It also creatively hobbles the various authors who wish to contribute a yarn or two into the Realms. There already existed constraints in the can/can't do area of their stories, but the approach WotC is taking now makes it much worse (ignoring WotC's rather shoddy reputation when it comes to author compensation).

I'm just finding it harder and harder to stay interested. Finding SCL to be yet another massive disappointment isn't helping. From what I've been reading about the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide...well, I'd say I'm taking one step towards Paizo/Pathfinder again.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 29 Oct 2015 :  02:03:33  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well again, the game makers can enrich the WotC's story, even if you think WotC isn't very good at story telling.

[EDIT]

Although indeed as I mentioned before, WotC creative control, may cause a fal in the story's qualities, if they indeed can even rewrite the whole book because of being overzealous, as some scibes suggwsted. so they can do the same wih video games ad other materials...

[END EDIT]


Also, while the graphics engine is rather medicore/primitive as I wrote before, the game's enviroments are pretty beautifully made with it, something IGN for example admited, despite giving Sword Coast Legends a rather medicore score of 5.5 .

Edited by - Baltas on 29 Oct 2015 10:08:02
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

724 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2015 :  00:35:28  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a shame, because there was a lot of potential - particularly with the DM tools. But it seems the DMing tools are extremely limited, you can't truly build your own environment. Instead, you have a number of templates for dungeons and then fill those with monsters and treasures.

With the story line being short and underwhelming, it really is a shame.

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 06 Nov 2015 :  00:53:57  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I agree the campaign was somewhat short, but I don't think it was bad. There also will be more story to tell in the expansion.

The DM tools, are a bit of an two sided sword. They are limited, but I, and quite a bit of other people think that the DMing in game, gives a pretty close feel to reall life DMing, although again, YMMV.

Here is an interesting review of SCL, by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZGFQJq87I
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

724 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2015 :  17:00:49  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Well, I agree the campaign was somewhat short, but I don't think it was bad. There also will be more story to tell in the expansion.

The DM tools, are a bit of an two sided sword. They are limited, but I, and quite a bit of other people think that the DMing in game, gives a pretty close feel to reall life DMing, although again, YMMV.

Here is an interesting review of SCL, by the way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JZGFQJq87I


That's certainly a much more positive review than reviews by critics and players on sites like Metacritic, where it's rated low-to-mediocre most of the time. There were a few isolated perfect ratings at first, but generally speaking, those tend to be paid product shills.

As someone who's played it, do you feel that it's much better than most people have rated it?

I haven't played it myself, but I personally wouldn't use the multiplayer or DM tools that much. All I've heard or read about the solo campaign is that it's rather short and pretty mediocre (on-the-rails story) without much room for individuality, so I decided to wait for another game. Would it still be worth it just for the solo campaign?

I also tend to play wizards or sorcerers, and I've heard that with the skill trees and other changes, it doesn't feel like a 5E D&D experience for a wizard at all. Any thoughts on that part of it?

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 07 Nov 2015 17:05:19
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 07 Nov 2015 :  18:01:30  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, the single player story does seem a bit on rails, but there is some room for decisions. But otherwise, I enjoyed the single player story quite much, and the companions are very well written.

About the gameplay, and especially about playing mages, have you played Dragon Age games? Because the overall gameplay seems very similar. Some of stuff working on the first Dragon Age game worked on this game, and it's pretty visible. Indeed, the gameplay could be somewhat described as a blend of Dragon Age and 5E.

There are some theories about that, one of them being that N-Space worked on a spiritual succesor of the first Dragon Age game, before being contracted by Wizards, and reworked the project into Sword Coast Legends.

And about the game itself, yes I do find it much, much better than most people rated it, and actually enjoy it quite much.
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Veritas
Learned Scribe

195 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2015 :  00:24:14  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The single player story is fairly good.
Does it have deep characterization? No.
Does the dialogue allow you to dive deep into your character's psychology? No.
It is something of a classical style adventure where you enjoy some dialogue and altogether brief exposition along the way. To that extent, the game resemble more of the old Gold Box games (such as Pool of Radiance) which were solid adventures but light on "RP" bells and whistles. You start off as a novice adventurer and end up facing the evil balor who aspires to godhood. The trek will take you from the City of Sails into the Underdark (which looks beautiful).

If you're die-hard about 5e mechanics, this isn't the game for you. The mechanics resemble Dragon Age Origins more than 5e. If you're looking for a decent adventure with some fun dialogue, you have a good shot of being satisfied with the game. Moreover, there are very creative players designing modules for the game. Even if you never play multiplayer, you can download and play modules on your own.

I think the game is worth a buy, although if you're on the fence wait for it to go on sale. There will be more player made content available by then to keep you occupied.
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2015 :  00:35:58  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas

The single player story is fairly good.
Does it have deep characterization? No.
Does the dialogue allow you to dive deep into your character's psychology? No.
It is something of a classical style adventure where you enjoy some dialogue and altogether brief exposition along the way. To that extent, the game resemble more of the old Gold Box games (such as Pool of Radiance) which were solid adventures but light on "RP" bells and whistles. You start off as a novice adventurer and end up facing the evil balor who aspires to godhood. The trek will take you from the City of Sails into the Underdark (which looks beautiful).

If you're die-hard about 5e mechanics, this isn't the game for you. The mechanics resemble Dragon Age Origins more than 5e. If you're looking for a decent adventure with some fun dialogue, you have a good shot of being satisfied with the game. Moreover, there are very creative players designing modules for the game. Even if you never play multiplayer, you can download and play modules on your own.

I think the game is worth a buy, although if you're on the fence wait for it to go on sale. There will be more player made content available by then to keep you occupied.



and two more player races Drow and Tiefling are coming, drow on 30th of November

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

724 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2015 :  01:38:18  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Very interesting - thanks Baltas, Veritas, and Dargoth.

I might give it a try.

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2015 :  02:18:42  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Very interesting - thanks Baltas, Veritas, and Dargoth.

I might give it a try.



Whats being added between now and the end of year

Halloween Update: "The Pumpkin Patch": October 30th

New "Liars' Night" themed area and placeables in the spirit of Halloween
Cemetery DM location with over 35 new placeable objects and new player gear
Screen nudge with mouse (toggled option)
Players will now be able to move the camera by nudging the edges of the screen. The WASD keys and the middle mouse button will still work the way
they currently do.
Auto-heal at Adventurer's Camp
When entering the adventurer's camp, the party will heal any damage previously taken.
DM collect quests will display "x of x found" on the HUD
Hotkey added to re-center camera on player
Doubled the max length for DM quest conversation text
Added the option to lock your cursor to the window
Bug fixes


Community Pack 1: Week of November 9th

Companion-Specific Skill Trees Unlocked for Players
Existing unique companion skill trees will become available to players
Nature Set
New outdoor area cleared and ready for customization with over 150 new placeable nature objects for DMs.
Ability Respec
Characters wishing to forget their prior training will be able to do so. All character points will be refunded, allowing players to change builds or
reselect their characters' abilities.
Player Stash
Players will be able to store additional items within their own personal stash.
Skill Rolls
Players will be able to use ability rolls that take their character's bonuses into account. For instance, characters will be able to specifically make a
"Strength" roll and have their Strength modifier automatically added to the roll.
Increased Number of Available Monster Abilities
Custom creatures will have additional monster abilities available to them.
Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows


Community Pack 2: Week of November 30th

Address concerns with ninja looting in multi-player games
New Playable Sub-race: Drow Elves (including access to Darkness and Faerie Fire abilities)
DM-placeable visual effects (fire, smoke, etc.)
Revisions and improvements to the rules for death, party wipe, and stabilize, including new options for players that want more challenge
Village area and village-related placeable objects for DMs to use in their modules
Ability to give ambient text to NPCs on select
Ability for DMs to change the randomized interiors of every tile
Lock/unlock locations on all quest states (give/update/complete)
Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows


Community Pack 3: December

Official introduction of mod support, including
Tile based level editor
Branching dialog editor
Adjustable game systems, ex: round timer, loot tables, etc.
Community facing development of these features to begin immediately
Option to disable monster level scaling in DM campaigns
Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows


Rage of Demons: Coming Soon

Return to the Underdark in this all-new adventure taking place as part of D&D's "Rage of Demons" storyline, featuring the legendary outcast drow Drizzt Do'Urden and some of the deadliest enemies ever to terrify Faerűn.
New Rage of Demons tile sets and placeable objects
New playable race: Tieflings
New creatures available for DMs
New Playable class based on community input
Allow player-created characters as companions in story mode
Enable players to control their characters' movement with the WASD keys
Bug fixes and additional community feedback items as time allows

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
638 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2015 :  14:38:55  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Very interesting - thanks Baltas, Veritas, and Dargoth.

I might give it a try.



You are better off waiting until January when everything is available and it could possibly be on sale as part of a re-launch. They game is not worth €30.00.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 08 Nov 2015 :  16:07:02  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I'm not sure if the game exacly not worth 30 bucks, although waiting for all content to be aviable at lower price, is also a method.
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
199 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2015 :  17:43:17  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Certainly not worth 30 euros. Definitely not. Even 30 US dollars...it's not there. Yet. In it's current state, it's 19.99 at best. Come the new year, assuming they manage to pull off all/most of this content, it'll be worth 30 US dollars...maybe 30 euros.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage
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Sarrivin
Acolyte

Poland
2 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  18:30:57  Show Profile  Visit Sarrivin's Homepage Send Sarrivin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmm, I'm just wondering - as an experienced Dungeon Master who started playing more than 17 years ago.
I went through many Campaign Settings, developed my own worlds, written novels, had won some top3 prizes for "best adventures".

The question is:
Why are you saying "it's not D&D" or totally not 5 Edition?

You know, the D&D game, from back in the day, was totally different. That which you call D&D rules now would an aberration back in the day, and vice versa.
But all editions tell us specifically that D&D is not a set of rules. It is not. We have it written in the books, D&D developers always said that. But I see just too many people forgetting about this so important thing. That's just a mistake, guys. This is my honest opinion on this.

I know the limitations of SCL, which in fact are already disappearing just _weeks_ after the game's release. And more are is come.
Through mods we even managed to insert full Faerun Map, will be able to disable monster scaling, so that 5th level character feels like it in combat with monsters.
This just a month after the Sword Coast Legends launch.

Now, with whole my experience, I can honestly say this game is the most D&Dish game I ever played. And I've played them all.
It just feels like playing D&D when you play it with DM, in a well done Campaign and with good players. Which aren't that hard to find. Or just gather your real RPG party.

I absolutely can't agree SCL will be disappointment. But open your mind and check how it plays when you do it properly.

Check out those topics:
https://forums.swordcoast.com/index.php?/topic/8652-i-honestly-feel-like-someone-came-into-my-house-and-stole-40-dollars/?p=84935
https://forums.swordcoast.com/index.php?/topic/8444-mhs-workshop-first-scl-modification-successful/

It's just a start of great adventure ;). Soon it can look like NwN Next. And I'm sure about that.

My Polish Sword Coast Legends Portal: http://www.swordcoast.pl
Polish Sword Coast Legends Forums: http://forum.swordcoast.pl
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SwordCoastPL
Twitter: https://twitter.com/SwordCoastPL
My Neverwinter Online Portal: www.neverwinter.com.pl
Old DDO Portal and forums await renewal.
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Veritas
Learned Scribe

195 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  13:47:48  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Although I feel SCL is worth the money, I don't think it is fair to say whether SCL "will" be a disappointment. The game is released. If you are disappointed now, that is the state of the game. Whether it will be disappointing after it receives the content projected to be added to the game is another thing.

From the many reviews and comments I have seen, most of the people accusing the game of not being worth the money simply expected a different game. Setting aside those expectations, on its own merits SCL is a D&D themed game. It may be a bit simplistic but isn't all that different in terms of content and story from a classic gold box game.


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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1356 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  23:25:47  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It's a good game, it's just not pure 5e ruleset. Not a big deal (though I could see this upsetting anyone who thought they could port their campaign into the digital medium for adventures). Is it worth the price? I think so, it kept me entertained. Cool-down based abilities don't bother me one bit (Used to it from Warcraft etc). Took a bit of time to get used to the camera and scrolling, but that's not a huge killer. I would really like save files that I can reload back to instead of just a game save feature.

I do wish they would have loaded the lore down like in Baldur's Gate with magic items. That was always one of my favorite things about the BG series was some sweet flavor text.

The Underdark is really quite amazing. I love being able to see the Realms visualized. It's inspiring. In fact, I plan on taking some of the areas and building on them.

And thankfully, there was only a handful of horridly named NPC's aka: William Rays etc. Someone needs to send those guys that excel spreadsheet with Ed's 4,000 named NPCs in it. The game isn't perfect, and sure the lore could be a bit tighter and more abundant (they do a good job using it as is), but overall it's been a fun run.

I was going to add more, but don't want to spoil anything.

If anyone wants a game to be disappointed in, go play Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void. Worst ending since Mass Effect 3. Completely underwhelmed and after following that game since the late 90's, the pay-off just wasn't there. :(

Edited by - Eilserus on 11 Nov 2015 23:27:01
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 19 Nov 2015 :  07:58:25  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, to check out, Chris Perkins Plays with R.A. Salvatore and D&D Team play Sword Coast Legends:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWht2tljLjc
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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2015 :  00:40:18  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Also, tomorow on Twitch will be closer look on soon playable drow race, and a live adventure, In the service of Lolth.
https://swordcoast.com/content/twitch-thursday-playable-drow-and-cp2-info
http://www.twitch.tv/SwordCoastLegends
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
249 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2015 :  00:50:29  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Baltas

Also, tomorow on Twitch will be closer look on soon playable drow race, and a live adventure, In the service of Lolth.
https://swordcoast.com/content/twitch-thursday-playable-drow-and-cp2-info
http://www.twitch.tv/SwordCoastLegends

No gnomes yet as playable race?

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Baltas
Senior Scribe

Poland
496 Posts

Posted - 03 Dec 2015 :  08:05:00  Show Profile Send Baltas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast
No gnomes yet as playable race?





Well, it may disappoint you but as of now, still no. The next confined race, are the Tieflings who will appear in the Rage of Demons expansion. But don't worry, as from what the creators said during interviews, gnomes (and half-orcs) will be also added probably in one of the patches/Community Packs like drow, and possibly before even the Rage of Demons expansion will be out.
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Veritas
Learned Scribe

195 Posts

Posted - 14 Jan 2016 :  01:21:27  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The price seems to have dropped by 50% permanently on Steam now.
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

647 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2016 :  19:27:01  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Veritas

The price seems to have dropped by 50% permanently on Steam now.



As predicted. I guess I can try the game out now.
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