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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1225 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  16:58:02  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
Someone shared this announcement on other social media, and I thought it'd be relevant to share here. I know some older threads link to discussion topics at the WotC forums, and we might lose some good Realmslore discussions in this event.

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)

Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:07:19  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message  Reply with Quote
All I can say is wow. I honestly don't know what else to say. Thank you, Delwa. I appreciate this information.

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1361 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:09:30  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I stopped going there years ago when their forums went all whacko.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2693 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:10:56  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

I stopped going there years ago when their forums went all whacko.



The FR forums are a ghost town anyway. However, it's kind of sad that the very company in charge of the IP has chosen to stop providing an ''official'' place where it can be discussed and feedback can be given (or where new people could ask for info). Thanks for the info, Delwa.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 16 Sep 2015 17:13:27
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1225 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:13:30  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No problem, gentlemen.
I signed up, but I never went there for much of anything. The recent layout never made sense to me, and I always had difficulty searching for what I wanted. I probably could have taken more time to learn the site, but I had Candlekeep, and this site has always made sense to me... in a bizarre, arcane, occult sort of way.

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)

Edited by - Delwa on 16 Sep 2015 17:14:16
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Kentinal
Great Reader

4291 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:15:40  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, I guess I have no reason to follow WotC discussions, I do not use any of the other social media. The only one I tried was twitter and decided it was unwieldy. Facebook privacy policy was reason enough for me to stay far away from that.

Also as far as it goes I rarely these days even visit those forums.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon

Edited by - Kentinal on 16 Sep 2015 17:16:55
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:28:39  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Opportunity here for Candlekeep to pick up some new users.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3468 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  17:54:13  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well it's a surprising move but fits the trend of abandonment of late. When I finish my latest project (arrgs) I'm honestly thinking of creating a company and approaching WoTC and asking if I can licence their realms ip and produce an alternate version of the realms up to 1375, with them getting royalties. They won't invest in the realms (or DNd it would seem with the latest act) but it seems senseless to stop other from doing it for them.
They lose more and more respect with each month i feel

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2693 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  18:00:15  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

They lose more and more respect with each month i feel



Perhaps they lose fans who like heavy lore, but, looking at sites like EnWorld, it seems to me that people are more than eager to buy their adventures.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30215 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  18:13:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It strikes me as another cost-saving maneuver - otherwise, they'd not need to delete their forums entirely.

As for me, there is no impact at all. They wrongfully banned me years ago, and I had no reason to even think about going back there. I had some good discussions there and enjoyed the company of certain other participants, but was quite some time ago. I've not looked back and I'll continue to not look back.

I do think this is a mistake on WotC's part, but there's such a long list of them that it's not even worth keeping count.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe

Norway
410 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  20:23:37  Show Profile  Visit Caladan Brood's Homepage Send Caladan Brood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think their reasoning is a little backward.
If the forums used some solid message board software and they were more easily found on their user-unfriendly website I'm sure more discussion would be concentrated there.
So instead of giving fans of the game and its settings a great place to hang out, they just nuke it because people are elsewhere.
Why not try to draw these people to a shiny forum, dripping with D&D-appropriate atmosphere?

(Not that it matters that much to me; this is the only D&D-related board I frequent. Well, this and the boards for Sword Coast Legends).
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Veritas
Learned Scribe

201 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  20:50:47  Show Profile  Visit Veritas's Homepage Send Veritas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If anything, this cost-cutting measure signals to me that D&D is as close to death as it has ever been. Not that I think the IP is going anywhere, sine Hasbro can still find uses for it with video game and alternative media, but the skeletal full-time staff and the trickle of products (mainly outsourced) make it pretty clear that the product line is underperforming and Hasbro is fiscally holding their feet to the fire. MTG's stellar performance is probably the only thing allowing WoTC to limp along. The previous edition must have been catastrophic in terms of sales to bring the product line to this point.
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2020 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  21:01:59  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
they band the OTTers gang there, a friend of mine was in that guild and was going to try to get me in that guild.
wouldn't have joined it anyway after my friend's 2nd banning I knew that the next time was going to be permanent.

I left the forum not long after it started to be a ghost town.

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1225 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  21:04:18  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It could simply mean that they are cutting the dross so that they can channel funds to products that people are asking for.
If Hasbro is looking to expand the D&D product line in a way that is similar to Marvel's Cinematic Universe, it may simply mean that WotC is under closer financial scrutiny so that they can ensure such a venture will be lucrative.
The recent movie announcement points to that. As does their entire shift from D&D being "just" a Tabletop product to a multi-platform venture.
This announcement doesn't have to indicate any ill for WotC. It could, but it doesn't have to.
It could very simply be that they are starting to do something different from the norm.

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)

Edited by - Delwa on 16 Sep 2015 21:05:09
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

731 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  22:33:49  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Realms forums were indeed a ghost town, so it's extremely unlikely Candlekeep will pull any of those forum-goers here.

The real loss will be for their general/class forum participants. The class guides being a big thing over there. Plus, it appears nothing will be archived but everything will simply be closed and deleted. So it pushes people away from the company outward toward 3rd party forums.

It seems that they will be keeping some of their other social media operating, such as Twitter. But their Twitter accounts have primarily been employee-specific, so if someone is fired or laid off, which happens with regularity at WotC, it'll also dwindle by nature.

It's probably (primarily and mostly) motivated by additional cost-cutting, and freeing employees from time distractions so they can concentrate more on other things. It's also very corporate-think, in that most corporations see very little value in extended communication with their customers. The next edition probably won't have as much player-developer interaction, I imagine.



"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Caolin
Senior Scribe

655 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2015 :  23:38:33  Show Profile Send Caolin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So is this proof that they weren't listening to the fans at all?
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  00:28:09  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

It could simply mean that they are cutting the dross so that they can channel funds to products that people are asking for.
If Hasbro is looking to expand the D&D product line in a way that is similar to Marvel's Cinematic Universe, it may simply mean that WotC is under closer financial scrutiny so that they can ensure such a venture will be lucrative.
The recent movie announcement points to that. As does their entire shift from D&D being "just" a Tabletop product to a multi-platform venture.
This announcement doesn't have to indicate any ill for WotC. It could, but it doesn't have to.
It could very simply be that they are starting to do something different from the norm.



Doubt it.

It's not like it costs millions to keep those forums open. Also, why do you have to take from one in order to do for the other? So they need to shut down the forums in order to divert time and money into the movie? Sounds like it's going to be a pretty crappy movie to me then. All of this stuff can be achieved at the same time. It's funny how they are so all about the "multi platform" approach and yet they cut staff and keep them on a probably small budget.

I honestly think they are flying in the dark.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1225 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  00:45:23  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

It could simply mean that they are cutting the dross so that they can channel funds to products that people are asking for.
If Hasbro is looking to expand the D&D product line in a way that is similar to Marvel's Cinematic Universe, it may simply mean that WotC is under closer financial scrutiny so that they can ensure such a venture will be lucrative.
The recent movie announcement points to that. As does their entire shift from D&D being "just" a Tabletop product to a multi-platform venture.
This announcement doesn't have to indicate any ill for WotC. It could, but it doesn't have to.
It could very simply be that they are starting to do something different from the norm.



Doubt it.

It's not like it costs millions to keep those forums open. Also, why do you have to take from one in order to do for the other? So they need to shut down the forums in order to divert time and money into the movie? Sounds like it's going to be a pretty crappy movie to me then. All of this stuff can be achieved at the same time. It's funny how they are so all about the "multi platform" approach and yet they cut staff and keep them on a probably small budget.

I honestly think they are flying in the dark.



You could be right. I'm just not ready to say, "this is what they're doing" on this evidence. Everything they've been saying about 5e D&D is that it's very successful, more than they were expecting. That might still mean that they expected it to fail, and were pleasantly surprised, but I doubt it. Hasbro wouldn't be talking about a movie if they were failing that miserably.

I just see this as a pruning of ye old grapevine. You don't just let a grapevine grow willy-nilly. You prune the excess to keep the vine as a whole healthy.
I could very well be wrong, but I'm not ready to say "it's all over, the boat's sinking" on this fact, especially when 5e was such a success. I've seen far too many people coming to the Facebook and Google Plus pages saying, "hey, I haven't played since OD&D, and 5e has sparked my interest" - and they still are around those groups as active participants - to come to that conclusion yet.

As for not listening to their fans... I think it's the opposite. How many people here have said their forums were a ghost town? Sure, they could have actually redesigned their website to a more useful interface, but I think you'd as soon change the moon to cheese. They don't have any talent in web design. Their repeatedly poor website design speaks to that.
They simply saw that it was more profitable for them to cut that branch and move on. They couldn't compete with ENWorld, or the other popular fan forums.


- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)

Edited by - Delwa on 17 Sep 2015 00:48:36
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  02:11:56  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If they drop the forums, then they cut their paid staff. I don't know how many people were running the show, but I'd say they just removed one quarter to one third of their headcount.

Ever since Gleemax and the rise of 4E, WotC to me has always seemed like a company that wanted to be on the bleeding edge of social media and tech, no matter the cost.

They never figured out how to leverage their users/customers. Instead they ran roughshod over them by destroying people's hard work, removing links to that work and otherwise alienating and loosing as many people as they won with their new tech.

And now they're doing it one more time. They invite people to form communities, put their campaigns on the D&D wiki and interact, and now they are taken my it away.


Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Eltheron
Senior Scribe

731 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  02:51:53  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

If they drop the forums, then they cut their paid staff. I don't know how many people were running the show, but I'd say they just removed one quarter to one third of their headcount.

Ever since Gleemax and the rise of 4E, WotC to me has always seemed like a company that wanted to be on the bleeding edge of social media and tech, no matter the cost.

I don't know, I wouldn't go that far. To me, WotC has always seemed more interested in paying the absolute minimum to keep their social media running.

And I could be wrong, but I think quite a few of their staff might be moved to other things. Some might be outright fired, or perhaps even all of them, but I have a feeling that they might just be shifting from forums to simpler social media like Twitter and such. Time will tell, I suppose.

quote:
They never figured out how to leverage their users/customers. Instead they ran roughshod over them by destroying people's hard work, removing links to that work and otherwise alienating and loosing as many people as they won with their new tech.

And now they're doing it one more time. They invite people to form communities, put their campaigns on the D&D wiki and interact, and now they are taken my it away.


Is the D&D Wiki tied to their forums?


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30215 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  04:30:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

It could simply mean that they are cutting the dross so that they can channel funds to products that people are asking for.
If Hasbro is looking to expand the D&D product line in a way that is similar to Marvel's Cinematic Universe, it may simply mean that WotC is under closer financial scrutiny so that they can ensure such a venture will be lucrative.
The recent movie announcement points to that. As does their entire shift from D&D being "just" a Tabletop product to a multi-platform venture.
This announcement doesn't have to indicate any ill for WotC. It could, but it doesn't have to.
It could very simply be that they are starting to do something different from the norm.



Doubt it.

It's not like it costs millions to keep those forums open. Also, why do you have to take from one in order to do for the other? So they need to shut down the forums in order to divert time and money into the movie? Sounds like it's going to be a pretty crappy movie to me then. All of this stuff can be achieved at the same time. It's funny how they are so all about the "multi platform" approach and yet they cut staff and keep them on a probably small budget.

I honestly think they are flying in the dark.



It wouldn't cost millions, but the paid staffers can be moved to stuff that offers more of a direct return, and their bandwidth costs will go down.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  05:33:41  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One idea I read over at EN World is that WotC is after Promotion, not Discussion.

Social Media does the former really well, forums do the later, and Social Media outstrips Forum discussions bigtime.

WotC could just as easily have handed their archive over to EN World, because it would be relatively cheap to host it, but they didn't do this because forums run counter to what WotC is chasing after, which is a high rate of promotion.

The forum thread can be found here at EN World: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468614-WotC-To-Close-Forums-Including-D-amp-D-and-M-tG-%28aka-quot-Welcome-New-Forum-Members-to-EN-World!-quot-%29

Also, if you have content on the WotC forums you'd like to save, EN World has started a new forum to dump content into and sort out later: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?538-WotC-Emergency-Evacuation-Lifeboat

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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LordManshoon
Acolyte

USA
12 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  05:48:39  Show Profile Send LordManshoon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

they band the OTTers gang there, a friend of mine was in that guild and was going to try to get me in that guild.
wouldn't have joined it anyway after my friend's 2nd banning I knew that the next time was going to be permanent.

I left the forum not long after it started to be a ghost town.

It's a shame that the FR forums faded the way they did. When I first discovered the boards, I spent a year lurking, enjoying all the posts made by guys like LordKarsus and MarkusTay. Then I signed up right around the time of the mass exodus. I really enjoyed the first couple years because there was still life in the boards, but as time passed and the veteran posters left, I switched my attention to Play-by-Post. Then a couple years ago the last board transition annihilated the PBP communities and I went elsewhere.

I really wish things had turned out for the better, but it is what it is.

Mastering myriad magics since Ed was young
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
646 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  07:17:25  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

One idea I read over at EN World is that WotC is after Promotion, not Discussion.

Social Media does the former really well, forums do the later, and Social Media outstrips Forum discussions bigtime.

WotC could just as easily have handed their archive over to EN World, because it would be relatively cheap to host it, but they didn't do this because forums run counter to what WotC is chasing after, which is a high rate of promotion.

The forum thread can be found here at EN World: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?468614-WotC-To-Close-Forums-Including-D-amp-D-and-M-tG-%28aka-quot-Welcome-New-Forum-Members-to-EN-World!-quot-%29

Also, if you have content on the WotC forums you'd like to save, EN World has started a new forum to dump content into and sort out later: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?538-WotC-Emergency-Evacuation-Lifeboat



You would think by now, Wizards actually knew their fanbase but obviously they do not. RPG's have had discussions for many years now through the various discussion boards. They talk about promoting but what they don't seem to grasp is the fact that discussion and promotion go hand in hand. Why not clean up the boards and promote them along side their products? I know loads of people who started playing D&D and wanted more info on it so they went to the source to look for discussions on various topics.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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TBeholder
Master of Realmslore

1458 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  11:04:12  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood

Why not try to draw these people to a shiny forum, dripping with D&D-appropriate atmosphere?

Obviously, it's not the desired result.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

One idea I read over at EN World is that WotC is after Promotion, not Discussion.

Yup. Not that fairly obvious intra-corporation astroturfing wasn't a thing long ago. Relevant to the Realms, too.

People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3406 Posts

Posted - 17 Sep 2015 :  11:08:14  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Such a shame. That's the first place I started to post when I learned about the D&D community and forums in general back in '06. So much info and discussions were started there and I had such a great time. Its unfortunate that the Realms forums dissolved after the Gleemax debacle. Well I just started a new profile over at ENworld, so we'll see how that goes.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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