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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 08 Oct 2015 :  19:42:22  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Regarding the Blood War; it never made sense to me that a chaotic army would defeat a lawful one, unless the chaotic one was so powerful that following strategy and commands and a unified fighting force was made moot. Stats wise Demons and Devils were pretty close in power, so I would think infighting and lack of focus would make demons lousy at fighting a real war; while lawful devils would follow orders and act cohesively if they are following their alignment correctly.



Well, the Nine Hells are just that. Nine layers of Hell.

The Abyss has an unknown number of layers. Hundreds at least.

So while the demons of the Abyss threw unlimited forces into the blood war against a limited number of devils, they never really made any headway. That alone is testament to structure vs Chaos.
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Renin
Learned Scribe

USA
290 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2015 :  16:29:52  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It seems I go against the grain here in some ways. I enjoyed this book-at least, most aspects of this book.

The scheming-great stuff. Lolth moving all her little pawns, in whatever chaotic dance that only will truly please her was great to read. I'm waiting for the book that makes Baenre's house fall from their position-now THAT would be a fanastic chaotic city for the Spider-Queen!

The playing of all the Houses, the moves, the comments, the males like Gromph doing what they're doing; all those are done so well.

The bad, or should I say, the poor-and most here have made mention of it-are the Companion figures. Well, I'll shorten that to Drizzt and Catti-brie.

The maturity of Bruenor as a mighty king, wise and benevolent and loving of his people is such a welcome to the typical beer drinking inarticulate nut during the Starless Night era of books. I like where this dwarf has gone and journeyed to and come back from.

And, RAS has done very well in developing many other dwarves...that is, the other ones who aren't always sputtering some stupid 'Oo oi' or giggles or what-have you. The other kings, the shield-dwarves, all done so well. Amber and Athrogate...eh..a bit too silly for me.

Catti-Brie/Mary Sue...she's such an empty cypher. Boring. Overpowered. 'Unbelieved' is how I would describe her. Considering the strong mages of the Realms, she's more or less a sudden archmage? Bah. Her training, her gifts, her deus ex machina artifact gifts.

Drizz't...yeah, he's where he's at now. I assume at some point he'll fight Demogorgon...and win . Thankfully the perfect drow (do a shot any time perfect, masterfully, or expertly are written about Drizz't. You'll die of poisoning in one page) saved the day, after being near death, since no dwarf could stand up to the Marilith.

Hell, I'd just like to read a chapter where he is sitting under a tree scratching Guen's neck. I miss those moments.
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Paran
Acolyte

18 Posts

Posted - 13 Oct 2015 :  23:55:18  Show Profile Send Paran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First post here, hi!

So I wonder if this trilogy will see the end of House Baenre. I don't see what else they can do to top the events in this.

Also, is it fair to assume that Gromph's child is actually Yvonnel reincarnated, (like the Companions were), and not just a baby with her memories printed in her brain?
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  01:22:37  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The whole thing with the baby is weird and doesn't make much sense to me. Oh, it's certainly creepy, and if done right, can work, but I don't think it fits with the rest of the story.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Madpig
Learned Scribe

Finland
148 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  10:12:21  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

The whole thing with the baby is weird and doesn't make much sense to me. Oh, it's certainly creepy, and if done right, can work, but I don't think it fits with the rest of the story.



I think that storyline has to do with somekind of endgame goal for Lolth. Or other option could be some kind of manipulation by someone. Cant just know who.
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Lamora
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 14 Oct 2015 :  23:47:04  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I enjoyed the book, but I could not for the life of me understand why Baenre is still reigning. Quenthal has all these just stupid ideas and all of these powerful high priestesses that have hundreds of underlings at their command just become her yes drow. The way Salvatore wrote the Drow in earlier books is just gone. There is no way Salvatore's Drow would have stood for all the crap Quenthal pulls such as putting a surface elf on the Council, etc... Maybe you could argue Lolth's favor, but I really feel that is a weak argument. Yvonnel was basically Lloth's Chosen. Quenthal just sits on the Baenre throne, and she does it poorly. Bob already had to do a lot of memory crap to make Quenthal even remotely interesting. I just can't see why she wasn't dethroned a long time ago. I do think Salvatore's endgame in this trilogy is to topple Baenre and throw Menzo into utter chaos.

Another thing I didn't care for was the juvenile usage of magic. This is more a Salvatore thing, but the only magic he ever seems to utilize is lightning and fireballs. He never goes into the truly great or just interesting magics. The lore and breadth of Araevan (Baker), the greatness of Rivalen (Kemp), and the awesomeness of Elminster (Greenwood) in the magical arts- not even mentioning Byers warmage character- just really paint Salvatore's usage of the Weave in a very bad light to me. Its honestly disappointing.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  00:49:37  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's one of the reasons I feel Salvatore often does his own thing and isn't really in touch with what goes on in the rest of Faerun. That's why I tell people if you really want to get a feel for the Realms, read other FR books. Sure, Bob is good at showing drow culture, but he isn't the only author who has done that. Cunningham comes to mind.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1446 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  01:12:00  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

The whole thing with the baby is weird and doesn't make much sense to me. Oh, it's certainly creepy, and if done right, can work, but I don't think it fits with the rest of the story.



I'd like to think it's Yvonnel the Eternal reborn as the Companions were, just maybe not the soul of old Yvonnel due to Methil's sessions. The end result is the same though.

Edited by - Eilserus on 15 Oct 2015 01:14:45
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe

489 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  03:55:47  Show Profile Send Lilianviaten a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

That's one of the reasons I feel Salvatore often does his own thing and isn't really in touch with what goes on in the rest of Faerun. That's why I tell people if you really want to get a feel for the Realms, read other FR books. Sure, Bob is good at showing drow culture, but he isn't the only author who has done that. Cunningham comes to mind.




I think that's true of every author. There are probably 5-10 authors I would recommend to people who want the whole Realms feel. Salvatore isn't the best at writing magic users; his strengths are rogues and martial classes (and he's incredible at that).

Ed writes awesome classic fantasy, but I would hate if all the villains in the Realms were written like his. He writes magic to perfection though; it really feels like a mystery that is always just out of reach, even to those who spend their lives studying it.

Paul Kemp is incredible, but the whole of the Realms isn't as dark and gritty as it is in his novels. He writes shades of grey and redemption arcs like nobody's business, but the Realms is also lighthearted at times.

I like what Bruce Cordell brings to the table with aberrations, the Far Realm, and other unusual stuff. He brings a different flavor to Faerun that gives you ideas and options for as a DM or a player, but I also wouldn't want the entire Realms to be that way.

Salvatore seems to get that criticism the most, because his books are the most popular. But he's never tried to write about the Realms in an overarching way. He writes about certain types of characters in certain places, and personally, I think he writes in a lot more variety than he's given credit for. But there is no one person that gives us the whole picture of the Realms in their novels, not even Ed. Because to me, the Realms is way too expansive and too varied for one set of novels to capture the whole feel of it.
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Lamora
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  04:36:19  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I personally am a little tired of Drizzt's holier than thou attitude. I love the books, don't get me wrong, but I prefer characters like Jarlaxle or Entreri. Bob can write amazing characters though. Drizzt's longevity, over 20 years of books, speaks to Bob's greatness. But I am tired of the white knight. The perfect book I can see of Bob would be Jarlaxle's origins. Start from when the dagger failed to pierce his flesh, go to his time in the Academy with Zak and their friendship, show his building up of Bregan D'aerthe, and his rise to a position that can challenge almost any House in the city (He has hundreds of followers after all). Jarlaxle is not a Drow who ran away from the culture, but he is one who embraced what it meant to be a Drow and reveled in the chaos. He would make decisions that are not 'good' or moral, and I think it would be a great read. Just a hope of mine though.

Another thing I have long wanted to see in the Realms is a character akin to Drizzt but a mage. I want to see a 10+ book series focused on the growth of a mage character just like Bob did with his warrior/ranger character. I would prefer an elf for their closeness to the Weave; I don't care if its a Drow or Surface Elf. Start the series off with him/her as an apprentice and show the trials of an apprentice, then slowly over multiple books increase the competency of the mage as he/she adventures out in the world and finds ancient lore and old spells to learn. That is what I really want to read about. Elminster could have gone there, but Ed made him an archmage basically after a book or two. I did enjoy the first two Elminster books though... the others not as much. This is just something I always wanted in the Realms.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  04:48:07  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

That's one of the reasons I feel Salvatore often does his own thing and isn't really in touch with what goes on in the rest of Faerun. That's why I tell people if you really want to get a feel for the Realms, read other FR books. Sure, Bob is good at showing drow culture, but he isn't the only author who has done that. Cunningham comes to mind.




I think that's true of every author. There are probably 5-10 authors I would recommend to people who want the whole Realms feel. Salvatore isn't the best at writing magic users; his strengths are rogues and martial classes (and he's incredible at that).

Ed writes awesome classic fantasy, but I would hate if all the villains in the Realms were written like his. He writes magic to perfection though; it really feels like a mystery that is always just out of reach, even to those who spend their lives studying it.

Paul Kemp is incredible, but the whole of the Realms isn't as dark and gritty as it is in his novels. He writes shades of grey and redemption arcs like nobody's business, but the Realms is also lighthearted at times.

I like what Bruce Cordell brings to the table with aberrations, the Far Realm, and other unusual stuff. He brings a different flavor to Faerun that gives you ideas and options for as a DM or a player, but I also wouldn't want the entire Realms to be that way.

Salvatore seems to get that criticism the most, because his books are the most popular. But he's never tried to write about the Realms in an overarching way. He writes about certain types of characters in certain places, and personally, I think he writes in a lot more variety than he's given credit for. But there is no one person that gives us the whole picture of the Realms in their novels, not even Ed. Because to me, the Realms is way too expansive and too varied for one set of novels to capture the whole feel of it.



That's true, and I like that multiple authors write in the setting. I got started on the Drizzt novels, and I continued to read them even when I hated where Bob had gone with the character (I couldn't stand his ultra-angsty days and when he teamed up with Dahlia).

I haven't read every FR novel out there, but I learned more about the Realms once I started branching out from the Drizzt books. They just don't have the same flavor to me as other novels set in the Realms. They're kind of their own thing.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Paran
Acolyte

18 Posts

Posted - 15 Oct 2015 :  11:12:49  Show Profile Send Paran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My only criticism of Archmage would be the cover art. I just prefer Todd Lockwood, and his Drizzt is exactly how I imagine the character when reading.
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

553 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2015 :  18:59:48  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just finished Archmage today. Not bad IMO, I guess I just love Ra's style, much preferred over the twin sisters Teiflings books for me.

One technical issue. Cattbrie was using fire magic to vanquish Demons, but I thought Demons were highly resistant to fire. Also thought the greater demons fought like Giants, they have a ton on magic and nasty tricks at their disposal, teleporting, Invisibility, but they fought dumb. I mean you are fighting the greatest Marilith in the AByss and it's basically a sword fight?

Another quip, I dont think Gromph should have been so cowed by Demogorgon. Demogorgon on the prime material plane is something the Archmage should be able to survive. He maybe one of the top ten most powerful mages in the realms. Mind you I say survive - as in fight defensively long enough to escape. I didn't like seeing Gromph grovel like a bug.

Question can Breunor now call upon the power of the Dwarven gods at will? Can be become a quasi divine Hero at the drop of a dime? Or can this only happen in Gauntlgrym and other certain circumstances?1

Edited by - jordanz on 17 Oct 2015 19:05:53
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 17 Oct 2015 :  21:16:52  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I agree with you on Gromph/Demogorgon; with one caveat...he wasn't expecting to summon him. So caught totally off-guard, he was grovelling/scared urine-less. I think if he was prepared to face an avatar of Demogorgon (if that's what it was), he would not have been so discombobulated.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2015 :  03:36:03  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have another technical quip: there are several scenes where the characters are close to lava, and suffer noill effects. Um...lava is HOT. It ddoesn't have to touch you to kill you. I know Cat has some control over the element, but IIRC, she wasn't the only character to get close to the lava. Lava is not a fire in a hearth. It is molten, and from the bowels of thr earth. It will kill you if you get close to it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Paran
Acolyte

18 Posts

Posted - 18 Oct 2015 :  15:35:14  Show Profile Send Paran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cat falling in lava. If only...
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 19 Oct 2015 :  00:09:15  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

Just finished Archmage today. Not bad IMO, I guess I just love Ra's style, much preferred over the twin sisters Teiflings books for me.

One technical issue. Cattbrie was using fire magic to vanquish Demons, but I thought Demons were highly resistant to fire. Also thought the greater demons fought like Giants, they have a ton on magic and nasty tricks at their disposal, teleporting, Invisibility, but they fought dumb. I mean you are fighting the greatest Marilith in the AByss and it's basically a sword fight?

Another quip, I dont think Gromph should have been so cowed by Demogorgon. Demogorgon on the prime material plane is something the Archmage should be able to survive. He maybe one of the top ten most powerful mages in the realms. Mind you I say survive - as in fight defensively long enough to escape. I didn't like seeing Gromph grovel like a bug.

Question can Breunor now call upon the power of the Dwarven gods at will? Can be become a quasi divine Hero at the drop of a dime? Or can this only happen in Gauntlgrym and other certain circumstances?1


He is not even close to that powerful unless he jumped more levels than he is capable of in the last 100 years.

Elminster would run from Demogorgon sweating. Gromph did pretty much what was expected and soiled himself
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

553 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  02:24:51  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

Just finished Archmage today. Not bad IMO, I guess I just love Ra's style, much preferred over the twin sisters Teiflings books for me.

One technical issue. Cattbrie was using fire magic to vanquish Demons, but I thought Demons were highly resistant to fire. Also thought the greater demons fought like Giants, they have a ton on magic and nasty tricks at their disposal, teleporting, Invisibility, but they fought dumb. I mean you are fighting the greatest Marilith in the AByss and it's basically a sword fight?


Another quip, I dont think Gromph should have been so cowed by Demogorgon. Demogorgon on the prime material plane is something the Archmage should be able to survive. He maybe one of the top ten most powerful mages in the realms. Mind you I say survive - as in fight defensively long enough to escape. I didn't like seeing Gromph grovel like a bug.

Question can Breunor now call upon the power of the Dwarven gods at will? Can be become a quasi divine Hero at the drop of a dime? Or can this only happen in Gauntlgrym and other certain circumstances?1


He is not even close to that powerful unless he jumped more levels than he is capable of in the last 100 years.

Elminster would run from Demogorgon sweating. Gromph did pretty much what was expected and soiled himself



If an epic party defeated ORCUS in the Abyss, I think the most powerful drow wizard alive could hold his own for a bit, on the prime material plane , where Demon Lords take a big hit in terms of power.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  03:20:36  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

Just finished Archmage today. Not bad IMO, I guess I just love Ra's style, much preferred over the twin sisters Teiflings books for me.

One technical issue. Cattbrie was using fire magic to vanquish Demons, but I thought Demons were highly resistant to fire. Also thought the greater demons fought like Giants, they have a ton on magic and nasty tricks at their disposal, teleporting, Invisibility, but they fought dumb. I mean you are fighting the greatest Marilith in the AByss and it's basically a sword fight?


Another quip, I dont think Gromph should have been so cowed by Demogorgon. Demogorgon on the prime material plane is something the Archmage should be able to survive. He maybe one of the top ten most powerful mages in the realms. Mind you I say survive - as in fight defensively long enough to escape. I didn't like seeing Gromph grovel like a bug.

Question can Breunor now call upon the power of the Dwarven gods at will? Can be become a quasi divine Hero at the drop of a dime? Or can this only happen in Gauntlgrym and other certain circumstances?1


He is not even close to that powerful unless he jumped more levels than he is capable of in the last 100 years.

Elminster would run from Demogorgon sweating. Gromph did pretty much what was expected and soiled himself



If an epic party defeated ORCUS in the Abyss, I think the most powerful drow wizard alive could hold his own for a bit, on the prime material plane , where Demon Lords take a big hit in terms of power.


Are we blending the old sourcebooks when Characters could reach level 100(Ironically, before the realms existed) with Salvatore's updated Bloodstone lands sourcebook and novels?

Because they didn't defeat Orcus in combat. They snuck in to Thanatos, stole the Wand of Orcus and destroyed it for 100 years at the behest of the God Bahamut using Tiamat's blood, which wrecked Zhengyi's armies.

A Drow demigod showed up at the same time and killed Orcus.

And what is it with fans always saying Bob's characters are "The most powerful" alive? Gromph is a very old and powerful Drow Wizard. He is not the most powerful alive, or they have very low standards in comparison to humans. Gromph's last stated character was Diviner18, ACM4, CR23 during WOTSQ. Early 20's is epic, but we have stats for other drow Wizards higher than that. The reclusive spider Mage of Menzo for one if he is still alive. He was stated higher than the Lichdrow or Gromph. And Menzo is a small city on the fringes of civilization.

Maybe it is Bob's writing style gets you in this mindset? Bob likes to emphasize how tough some villains are by saying "Errtu: Greatest most powerful of Balors" and other such phrases. But it is not meant to be taken at face value. It is meant to give the villain some more heat or the babyface a pop. We learned Wendonai was a greater Balor who corrupted the entire drow race and was Lolth's personal guy, and we learned this book that Balor himself is around and is the most powerful. etc etc

But we already knew the editor is not the greatest at catching continuity errors

Edited by - Firestorm on 20 Oct 2015 03:22:41
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  04:43:24  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gromph also isn't solely Bob's character, I don't think, unless he created him but gave other authors permission to use him, too.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  06:15:16  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Gromph also isn't solely Bob's character, I don't think, unless he created him but gave other authors permission to use him, too.



He doesn't have to give anyone permission -- the character belongs to WotC.

If they wanted, they could (and almost did) publish a Drizzt book written by another author.

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Paran
Acolyte

18 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  11:04:07  Show Profile Send Paran a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gromph pissing himself feels natural and makes him ''human''. Or rather feel like a rational person would act in such a situation. If he suddenly went ''Aha! Time to own Demogorgon with my magic lazers *pew pew pew*'' it would feel artificial and rather stupid.

Strongest evur characters are boring. Going through struggles makes them interesting.

Edited by - Paran on 20 Oct 2015 11:04:47
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jordanz
Senior Scribe

553 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  16:08:17  Show Profile  Visit jordanz's Homepage Send jordanz a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Paran

Gromph pissing himself feels natural and makes him ''human''. Or rather feel like a rational person would act in such a situation. If he suddenly went ''Aha! Time to own Demogorgon with my magic lazers *pew pew pew*'' it would feel artificial and rather stupid.

Strongest evur characters are boring. Going through struggles makes them interesting.



Pissing your pants and fearlessly shooting magic lazers are two opposing extremes. I think Gromph should have shown some signs of fear and certainty surprise but to the extreme that he did..?

You have one of the most powerful drow wizards to walk the face of Fearun who in his extremly long life time has probably been to the Abyss on occasion, probably communed with Demon Lords before.

When Telamont Tanthul summoned Mephistopheles he was nowhere near pissing his pants when his protective circle was weakening.

Mod edit: Fixed the quote coding.

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Oct 2015 16:49:26
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  17:21:14  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

[quote]Originally posted by Paran

Gromph pissing himself feels natural and makes him ''human''. Or rather feel like a rational person would act in such a situation. If he suddenly went ''Aha! Time to own Demogorgon with my magic lazers *pew pew pew*'' it would feel artificial and rather stupid.

Strongest evur characters are boring. Going through struggles makes them interesting.
[/quote

Pissing your pants and fearlessly shooting magic lazers are two opposing extremes. I think Gromph should have shown some signs of fear and certainty surprise but to the extreme that he did..?

You have one of the most powerful drow wizards to walk the face of Fearun who in his extremly long life time has probably been to the Abyss on occasion, probably communed with Demon Lords before.

When Telamont Tanthul summoned Mephistopheles he was nowhere near pissing his pants when his protective circle was weakening.


Mephisto doesn't have that same built in ability. One of Demogorgons natural abilities is his gaze attacks, automatic and free action combination of his choice of Beguiling/Hypnotizing/Crazy Insanity gaze. It has some silly high Will roll to negate

Not to mention, Telamont was hiding with a score of his more trusted Archwizards, his son, and Hadhrune, fully prepared and warded.

To put in perspective the power there. Hadhrune is a level 20CR, a mere 3 levels below Gromph's level 23CR. Brennus Tanthul is a level 26CR Prince of Shade, and Telamont himself is a max level Archmage, Max level Shadow Adept and Level 20 Wizard on top of that. Nearer to level 40 than Gromph is to level 30

Elminster himself confided that Telamont would beat him in a straight up Spell duel in Spellstorm.

And they caught Mephisto by surprise. Trapped him in fact.

Gromph was caught with his pants down, completely surprised against one of the most powerful non-divine entities in the DnD universe.

Comparing Telamont with 7 arcanists by his side, all of whom are close to or Stronger than Gromph, surprising an archdevil, and Gromph being caught flat footed by a being even stronger than Mephistopheles is silly.
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  17:44:27  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Gromph also isn't solely Bob's character, I don't think, unless he created him but gave other authors permission to use him, too.



He doesn't have to give anyone permission -- the character belongs to WotC.

If they wanted, they could (and almost did) publish a Drizzt book written by another author.



And they did have that one Short Story with Drizzt/Zak written by another guy. Featured the aforementioned Jalynfein the Spider mage
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe

USA
343 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  19:53:36  Show Profile Send Aulduron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Where is that story from?

"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"

-Procopio Septus
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  20:13:50  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Gromph also isn't solely Bob's character, I don't think, unless he created him but gave other authors permission to use him, too.



He doesn't have to give anyone permission -- the character belongs to WotC.

If they wanted, they could (and almost did) publish a Drizzt book written by another author.



And they did have that one Short Story with Drizzt/Zak written by another guy. Featured the aforementioned Jalynfein the Spider mage



As I understand it, that short story was kind of an audition.

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Mirtek
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595 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  22:07:21  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jordanz

When Telamont Tanthul summoned Mephistopheles he was nowhere near pissing his pants when his protective circle was weakening.
Well, here we have the problem of their inconsistent portrayal between editions.

At that time archfiends were set as clearly weaker than deities and fawning over the chance to gain the divine spark of a quasi-deity, while Telamont was seriously worried facing a quasi-deity

Now archfiends seem to be treated again akin to deities, Jarlaxe indicating that even Lolth would rather not facing Demogorgon in battle. This can indicate a lot, from Jarlaxe simply being wrong over Demogorgon going to certainly lose such an encounter but still being capable of inflicting some wounds on Lolth she'd rather not suffer up to Lolth truly being uncertain whether she or Demogorgon would be victorious. And also keep in mind that we don't know Lolth's divine status in 5e, she might be a lesser deity again, at least she's back in the Abyss.

In any case it's clear that 5e no longer sees them as creatures that true deities can easily toy with (as Vhaeraun casually did with the second most powerful Yugoloth in one of the WotSQ novels, said Yugoloth even later being destroyed by a not-epic drow wizard).

5e seems to place the archfiends again somewhere between demigods and lesser deities

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

As I understand it, that short story was kind of an audition.

An audition that got published nonetheless

quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron

Where is that story from?
IIRC it's Realms of the Underdark. One of the Realms of [...] definately

Edited by - Mirtek on 20 Oct 2015 22:20:53
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  22:23:24  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aulduron

Where is that story from?



Short story called "Fires of Narbondel" in Realms of the underdark.

Pretty neat Short story to be honest. Child Drizzt meets the avatar of Lolth lol.

but most of the story centered on Zaknafein meeting Jalynfein the Spider mage. The most powerful hidden wizard in Menzoberanzan.

The story was written by Mark Anthony, during a time Bob and TSR were having conflicts. Drizzt belonged to TSR, so effectively, they decided since Bob didn't come to an agreement with them, They would let others write Drizzt books.

An entire Novel actually exists with Drizzt written not by Bob, but was never released and has been buried since Bob came back. Which is kind of a shame since a non-Canon release would get bought lol. Granted, it has every chance to be as horrid as Entreri in the double diamond non-canon series, where he lost an arm.

Bob referencing "Lost the use of an arm" in Legacy then never mentioning it again was classic :p
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 20 Oct 2015 :  22:49:19  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Huh...that's interesting

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