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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2015 :  17:15:29  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Part of the book will be previewed with WotC's fundraising event: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/dnd_extralife2015

All of the previews will be crunch, though (save for the preface/table of contents and an updated map of NW Faerun).

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Edited by - Irennan on 10 Sep 2015 17:17:17
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2015 :  14:31:12  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The page count of the book is around 160, according to CoolstuffInc. I hope that the crunch section is really small (esepcially considering that it will include some rules already released through the Unearthed Arcana articles) and that most of the book is dedicated to lore, otherwise we aren't going to get much, with a page count that small.

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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe

Norway
410 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2015 :  17:30:20  Show Profile  Visit Caladan Brood's Homepage Send Caladan Brood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is a depressingly low page count, even if it's but a part of the setting. My guess it'll be mostly similar to 3rd edition's 'Player's Guide to Faerūn'.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2015 :  17:34:56  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood

That is a depressingly low page count, even if it's but a part of the setting. My guess it'll be mostly similar to 3rd edition's 'Player's Guide to Faerūn'.



That book was almost full crunch, IIRC. This is supposed to have a crunchy part and a full lore part (the ''Sundering'' update).

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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe

Norway
410 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2015 :  22:01:44  Show Profile  Visit Caladan Brood's Homepage Send Caladan Brood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, I know, I just don't see "full lore" + "crunchy part" = 160 pages :)
Makes me suspicious of just how much lore there'll be.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 26 Sep 2015 :  22:16:40  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood

Yeah, I know, I just don't see "full lore" + "crunchy part" = 160 pages :)
Makes me suspicious of just how much lore there'll be.



It depends on how big the crunchy part is. Lets hope that they remain faithful to their ''no rules/option bloat'' motto and make the cruchy part small.

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Edited by - Irennan on 26 Sep 2015 22:17:14
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Gurgle Gobblespit
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2015 :  17:35:51  Show Profile Send Gurgle Gobblespit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

The page count of the book is around 160, according to CoolstuffInc. I hope that the crunch section is really small (esepcially considering that it will include some rules already released through the Unearthed Arcana articles)

Totally agree. I hope it is mostly lore, maps, history updates, timeline updates etc ….. all of which are desperately needed for 5e.

The crunchy stuff they could easily just crank those out as piecemeal (and FREE) PDF updates like in UA or even the Supplemental PDFs like they did with PotA which introduced 4 new races (Deep Gnomes, Genasi, Aaracockra, Goliath)…. which is content we got free of charge. At some future date, they could compile the "PDF supplement" contents into some future handbook, which I'm sure most 5e players will buy anyways.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2015 :  17:44:21  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gurgle Gobblespit

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

The page count of the book is around 160, according to CoolstuffInc. I hope that the crunch section is really small (esepcially considering that it will include some rules already released through the Unearthed Arcana articles)

Totally agree. I hope it is mostly lore, maps, history updates, timeline updates etc ….. all of which are desperately needed for 5e.

The crunchy stuff they could easily just crank those out as piecemeal (and FREE) PDF updates like in UA or even the Supplemental PDFs like they did with PotA which introduced 4 new races (Deep Gnomes, Genasi, Aaracockra, Goliath)…. which is content we got free of charge. At some future date, they could compile the "PDF supplement" contents into some future handbook, which I'm sure most 5e players will buy anyways.



What bothers me is that their APs are 250-300 pages long, then a book that is supposed to be a CS is as small as 160 pages, and some of those are wasted on crunchy material that has already been published through UA. I mean, really?

Anyway, if they release the table of contents as a preview for their extra-life project, then this week we'll know how much crunch will be included.

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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1178 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  01:18:57  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I Suspect the crunchy portion will be at least as big as EE companion and more likely alot bigger. We're talking at minium, Greenflame Blade Cantrip (and likely some other spells), Deugar Dwarf subrace, Tiefling and Half Elf Variants, Backgrounds like Urban Bountry Hunter, Oath of the Crown Paladin subclass, Mastermind Rogue Subclass, Swashbuckler Rogue Subclass, Purple Dragon likely fighter Subclass, Bladesinger likely Wizard Subclass, Undying Warlock Patron, hier background, and I think its unlikely that Sorceror, Cleric, and Ranger won't have a subclass for different reasons. And that what's certain and mostly likely in there, it doesn't include any surprises.

So I'm figuring a minium of 20 to 40 pages of crunch, maybe as high as 60 pages at the very high end, they want to make sure that its worth peoples time to buy if they're only interested in crunch. A list of Gods in it, could straddle the line between crunch and fluff (different gods gives access to different cleric domains).

Looking at my PHB, a subrace takes about half a page, a subclass about half a page, almost a whole page, a racial variant (based on the human variant found in the phb), a paragraph, background variant, a paragraph, spells about a paragraph usually, a Table of the Gods, at least two full pages, I don't expect full write ups for all of them,or even most of them, just the basics in a table format like in the 4e FRCG, domain, plane of existance, Portifolio, maybe a few other tidbits.

Thier are no new full races or classes to my knowledge, which take up a large amount of space, so they can cram in a ton of crunch options into 20 to 60 pages.

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  01:52:29  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

I Suspect the crunchy portion will be at least as big as EE companion and more likely alot bigger. We're talking at minium, Greenflame Blade Cantrip (and likely some other spells), Deugar Dwarf subrace, Tiefling and Half Elf Variants, Backgrounds like Urban Bountry Hunter, Oath of the Crown Paladin subclass, Mastermind Rogue Subclass, Swashbuckler Rogue Subclass, Purple Dragon likely fighter Subclass, Bladesinger likely Wizard Subclass, Undying Warlock Patron, hier background, and I think its unlikely that Sorceror, Cleric, and Ranger won't have a subclass for different reasons. And that what's certain and mostly likely in there, it doesn't include any surprises.

So I'm figuring a minium of 20 to 40 pages of crunch, maybe as high as 60 pages at the very high end, they want to make sure that its worth peoples time to buy if they're only interested in crunch. A list of Gods in it, could straddle the line between crunch and fluff (different gods gives access to different cleric domains).

Looking at my PHB, a subrace takes about half a page, a subclass about half a page, almost a whole page, a racial variant (based on the human variant found in the phb), a paragraph, background variant, a paragraph, spells about a paragraph usually, a Table of the Gods, at least two full pages, I don't expect full write ups for all of them,or even most of them, just the basics in a table format like in the 4e FRCG, domain, plane of existance, Portifolio, maybe a few other tidbits.

Thier are no new full races or classes to my knowledge, which take up a large amount of space, so they can cram in a ton of crunch options into 20 to 60 pages.





40 pages of crunch and 120 of lore (so 1 to 3) could be ok IMO. The deities could be both, assuming that they wrote a line or two of updates to the new era for each (they should, given that the book is supposed to include the current state of the FR pantheon).

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 30 Sep 2015 02:06:24
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  13:26:33  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
where are you getting that its only 160 pages?

I was hoping it would be as long as Out of the Abyss which weighs in at around 250 pages

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  13:29:29  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

where are you getting that its only 160 pages?

I was hoping it would be as long as Out of the Abyss which weighs in at around 250 pages



http://www.coolstuffinc.com/p/219152 Even though, now that I think about it, I'm not certain that it is accurate (Amazon has no info beyond the weight).

However, given the price, I'm fairly sure that it won't be 250 pages like their APs.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1232 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  17:59:59  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Preface for the book is out. It gives a brief overview of the contents:

quote:
Chapter 1 of this book gives an overview of the Sword Coast and nearby lands, its history, the role of magic, and its religions. Chapter 2 goes into detail about the cities and other locations of the Sword Coast. Chapter 3 gives history and some game material for various races and subraces, both common and uncommon, that can be met on the Sword Coast and in the North. Chapter 4 shows how the character options in the Player’s Handbook fit into this region and presents new character class options specific to the Forgotten Realms. Chapter 5 gives backgrounds designed to link your characters to the great places, people, and events of Faerūn.


It does repeatedly state that the book is 1. An Overview, 2. Brief in Description. I'd say at best we can expect a 50/50 crunch / fluff ratio.

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  18:13:21  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

Preface for the book is out. It gives a brief overview of the contents:

quote:
Chapter 1 of this book gives an overview of the Sword Coast and nearby lands, its history, the role of magic, and its religions. Chapter 2 goes into detail about the cities and other locations of the Sword Coast. Chapter 3 gives history and some game material for various races and subraces, both common and uncommon, that can be met on the Sword Coast and in the North. Chapter 4 shows how the character options in the Player’s Handbook fit into this region and presents new character class options specific to the Forgotten Realms. Chapter 5 gives backgrounds designed to link your characters to the great places, people, and events of Faerūn.


It does repeatedly state that the book is 1. An Overview, 2. Brief in Description. I'd say at best we can expect a 50/50 crunch / fluff ratio.



Meh, 50/50 sounds rather underwhelming. Also, it talks about an overview of Toril and Faerun, but then, when it comes to the content of the various chapters, I only see stuff regarding NW Faerun being talked about.

Thanks for the link, though.

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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1232 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  18:29:01  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No problem. I was always under the impression that this book was going to be fairly evenly distributed between crunch and lore. If the scales were going to tip in any direction, crunch has sounded like the way they were going to lean. Everything we've been told has said "brief overview," or a "little" description of the Sundering, etc. I never expected a Volo's Guide level of detail, and I haven't seen anything that would give me cause to expect such. It would be nice, and for those of us who are running 5e, it will be an essential source for some mechanics, imo.
I think the angle they're playing with is leaving the table open for DM's to fill in as they please.
Many of these regions have been detailed greatly in the past. All you need to update them is a brief paragraph of who's in charge now, maybe some plot hooks, and the rest can be filled in by the DM to taste, using old edition pdfs if he chooses, or his own ideas if not.
I'm curious to see how well this book pairs with Elminster's Forgotten Realms.
Here's the Extra Life page, where they'll be posting more previews as funding is raised: link

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
204 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  21:20:28  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have the feeling this will be as illuminating to the Realms as the Sundering novel series was for the Sundering non-event. I'll be snagging a copy once it hits shelves, of that there is no doubt...but durn it if I just can't shake that feeling.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  21:34:14  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX

I have the feeling this will be as illuminating to the Realms as the Sundering novel series was for the Sundering non-event. I'll be snagging a copy once it hits shelves, of that there is no doubt...but durn it if I just can't shake that feeling.



Heh, lets at least wait for the table of contents before losing all hope

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Gurgle Gobblespit
Seeker

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  23:01:22  Show Profile Send Gurgle Gobblespit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX

I have the feeling this will be as illuminating to the Realms as the Sundering novel series was for the Sundering non-event. I'll be snagging a copy once it hits shelves, of that there is no doubt...but durn it if I just can't shake that feeling.

I'm looking forward to it, and I'm more optimistic that I will enjoy having the SCAG. Then again, I'm already setting my expectations low.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  23:08:16  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If this book is on par with The Neverwinter Campaign Setting, then it will be worth the price of purchase.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2730 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  23:16:35  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

If this book is on par with The Neverwinter Campaign Setting, then it will be worth the price of purchase.



That book had 230-ish pages, and focused on a single city. This book wants to be too many things, with too little room available IMO. My hat's off to the authors, if they manage to cram gaming info, updates on gods and lands, history of NW Faerun and a NW Faerun/SC-campaing setting, all in 160 pages.

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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  23:18:36  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

Preface for the book is out. It gives a brief overview of the contents:

quote:
Chapter 1 of this book gives an overview of the Sword Coast and nearby lands, its history, the role of magic, and its religions. Chapter 2 goes into detail about the cities and other locations of the Sword Coast. Chapter 3 gives history and some game material for various races and subraces, both common and uncommon, that can be met on the Sword Coast and in the North. Chapter 4 shows how the character options in the Player’s Handbook fit into this region and presents new character class options specific to the Forgotten Realms. Chapter 5 gives backgrounds designed to link your characters to the great places, people, and events of Faerūn.


It does repeatedly state that the book is 1. An Overview, 2. Brief in Description. I'd say at best we can expect a 50/50 crunch / fluff ratio.



Im not oppossed to more crunch, one of my critisims of 5ed is there isnt enough diversity within the classees thiis is most pronounced in the Cleric and Paladin classes. There are great deal of 3ed PrCs, Sub classess and feats that could be converted into 5th edition as class options

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2015 :  23:29:31  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan


That book had 230-ish pages, and focused on a single city.

I know. It's a good book.

Like I said, if the SCAG is as good as the NWCS, then it will be worth the purchase price.

I am not a fan of fewer pages, mind, but I am not of the opinion that fewer pages automatically means a book is bad, or can't be as good.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30340 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2015 :  00:07:01  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

If this book is on par with The Neverwinter Campaign Setting, then it will be worth the price of purchase.



That book had 230-ish pages, and focused on a single city. This book wants to be too many things, with too little room available IMO. My hat's off to the authors, if they manage to cram gaming info, updates on gods and lands, history of NW Faerun and a NW Faerun/SC-campaing setting, all in 160 pages.



I will point out that the OGB was just 192 pages of text, and I don't think anyone will say anything bad on the quality of that one.

Note that I'm not commenting either way on this new book; I'm just pointing out that you can still do a lot with a lesser pagecount.

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Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1232 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2015 :  00:48:07  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by Delwa

Preface for the book is out. It gives a brief overview of the contents:

quote:
Chapter 1 of this book gives an overview of the Sword Coast and nearby lands, its history, the role of magic, and its religions. Chapter 2 goes into detail about the cities and other locations of the Sword Coast. Chapter 3 gives history and some game material for various races and subraces, both common and uncommon, that can be met on the Sword Coast and in the North. Chapter 4 shows how the character options in the Player’s Handbook fit into this region and presents new character class options specific to the Forgotten Realms. Chapter 5 gives backgrounds designed to link your characters to the great places, people, and events of Faerūn.


It does repeatedly state that the book is 1. An Overview, 2. Brief in Description. I'd say at best we can expect a 50/50 crunch / fluff ratio.



Im not oppossed to more crunch, one of my critisims of 5ed is there isnt enough diversity within the classees thiis is most pronounced in the Cleric and Paladin classes. There are great deal of 3ed PrCs, Sub classess and feats that could be converted into 5th edition as class options



Agreed. I don't mind converting old edition material, but it is really nice to have an offical source. And given the way they present classes, there is opportunity for lore within the crunch.

- Delwa Aunglor of Tangled Trees
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus

My Forging the Realms Archives (Google Drive pdfs)
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Hutchimus
Acolyte

4 Posts

Posted - 01 Oct 2015 :  16:39:46  Show Profile Send Hutchimus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm looking forward to this as much as I was looking forward to the 5th Edition PHB; which is to say A LOT!
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