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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  13:59:29  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Frankly, I find the SCAG to be a complete disappointment for me. What is presented is quality stuff (for the most part), but it's far too minimal. It tries to be too many things and ends up being nothing of consequence. At it's price point, I expect something far more focused and detailed. This minimalism isn't going to cut it for my money.

SCAG is more a codex than a guide. It's pieces are quality, but its whole is just not good enough (for me). Last 5e product I buy until WotC can learn how to focus again.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage

Edited by - ZeshinX on 10 Nov 2015 13:59:53
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe

Brazil
464 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  15:28:14  Show Profile Send Mapolq a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Haven't read it yet, but I maintain that it's not a question of knowing how to focus, it's a matter of money, pure and simple, and how there isn't much anymore. Not for doing what many of us would like.

1e and 2e had lots of books because the industry was younger (and probably cheaper), and the books' (physical) quality was crap but no one cared much.

3e has plenty of books because they tried to take that model ahead to the 21st century. Many people liked it, but at the end it was already said they weren't selling anywhere near what they expected.

From 4e onwards, there can't be a lot of books anymore. Right now, they could do an exclusively regional Sword Coast book, but then we wouldn't have got anything on the results of the Sundering, the gods, the status of some other regions, etc. They could have launched a 5e FRCS like the 3e one, but at this point I believe that they are pretty sure it'd lose them money, even if the people who want such books loved it.

I'd say the only reason why they *didn't* do an exclusively Sword Coast book is how they managed to screw up the rest of the world in 4e, so they said they would fix it, and obviously we are waiting for them to fix it.

So we're stuck in the industry limbo, at least for a while.

Never sleep under the jackfruit tree.

Tales of Moonsea - A Neverwinter Nights 2 Persistent World. Check out our website at http://www.talesofmoonsea.com and our video trailer at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am304WqOAAo&feature=youtu.be, as well as our thread here at Candlekeep: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12955

My campaign thread: http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=16447
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Rymac
Learned Scribe

USA
282 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  17:47:58  Show Profile  Visit Rymac's Homepage Send Rymac a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX

What is presented is quality stuff (for the most part), but it's far too minimal.



Speaking of "quality", is anyone else who bought SCAG having problems with the ink smudging?

- Ryan
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
201 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  18:19:48  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mapolq

Haven't read it yet, but I maintain that it's not a question of knowing how to focus, it's a matter of money, pure and simple, and how there isn't much anymore. Not for doing what many of us would like.

1e and 2e had lots of books because the industry was younger (and probably cheaper), and the books' (physical) quality was crap but no one cared much.

3e has plenty of books because they tried to take that model ahead to the 21st century. Many people liked it, but at the end it was already said they weren't selling anywhere near what they expected.

From 4e onwards, there can't be a lot of books anymore. Right now, they could do an exclusively regional Sword Coast book, but then we wouldn't have got anything on the results of the Sundering, the gods, the status of some other regions, etc. They could have launched a 5e FRCS like the 3e one, but at this point I believe that they are pretty sure it'd lose them money, even if the people who want such books loved it.

I'd say the only reason why they *didn't* do an exclusively Sword Coast book is how they managed to screw up the rest of the world in 4e, so they said they would fix it, and obviously we are waiting for them to fix it.

So we're stuck in the industry limbo, at least for a while.



I knew even writing it that "focus" was not the right word. I just couldn't quite find one that really fit, focus just seemed the closest.

It's a "let's make D&D appeal to everyone to maximize profits" approach. D&D is a niche product in a niche market, always has been, always will be. If it can sojourn briefly into other markets and pull in a little profit from them, great...but making that a focus or heavy investment direction is laughable. Profitable short term, brand-destroying long term. Hasbro's toy lines exemplify this with their diminishing returns brand re-launches every decade or so.

Now I'm not criticizing WotC wanting to take things slow and keep their product releases light. That seems wise. It's the lackluster offerings of what is being released. The pieces are good...but the whole of the products are severely lacking. They're just too discordant and scattershot. They're all over the place with no internal (to the product) focus. They don't offer enough of any one thing within themselves to be worth the cover price.

Aside from the Core Rulebooks, every product thus far has been little more than a Gazeteer. It's like being invited to dinner, being served a delicious appetizer, then being politely asked to leave and to expect another dinner invitation soon.

I love the core game but it is massively lacking in every other area.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
640 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  20:24:36  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Glad to see that Ao's decree about portfolios has been lifted, or weakened at least. Does it say Myrkul still associated with decay/corruption, or if he is related with necromancy in any way, given that Velsharoon seems to be nowhere to be found.

Also, what does it say on Lolth, has she changed in any way?

EDIT: Not even a little reference to what Ed said about Myth Drannor not being completely wiped, and in the process of being possibly rebuilt?



There's a temple to Velsharoon in Mulmaster.



Velsharoon isn't listed in the deity line up.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2015 :  21:51:10  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX

Frankly, I find the SCAG to be a complete disappointment for me. What is presented is quality stuff (for the most part), but it's far too minimal. It tries to be too many things and ends up being nothing of consequence. At it's price point, I expect something far more focused and detailed. This minimalism isn't going to cut it for my money.

SCAG is more a codex than a guide. It's pieces are quality, but its whole is just not good enough (for me). Last 5e product I buy until WotC can learn how to focus again.



I think the book looks good, but I've been burned too much by WotC to pay full price, at this time. Between the discount Barnes & Noble already had on the book, the membership discount, and the coupon I had, I had it shipped to my door for like $23.

I like what I've read thus far, but I've not had time to really get into it.

It is awfully thin, but given the amount I paid, I'm not going to complain about the price.

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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3278 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  05:33:16  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Since we're only talking about a few years in the future from 4e's 1469 DR starting point, I think its fare to say the SCAG probably didn't need to re-cover areas that were just previously covered like Neverwinter and Waterdeep. I haven't read through the book yet but I heard that it has a lot of good role-playing tips.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
263 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  06:08:56  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert



I think the book looks good, but I've been burned too much by WotC to pay full price, at this time. Between the discount Barnes & Noble already had on the book, the membership discount, and the coupon I had, I had it shipped to my door for like $23.

I like what I've read thus far, but I've not had time to really get into it.

It is awfully thin, but given the amount I paid, I'm not going to complain about the price.



Just got my copy this week, had just a cursory glance. Like you, I paid at "sale" price at around ~$23 via Amazon (with free shipping).

For me, the book is well worth it. Yes, it's not a very thick book, nor is anything in extensive detail. But I will remind you all that I'm an FR Outsider. Before 5E I was never a Realms fan, nor played in the FR setting. Sure I played D&D since back in my boyhood years in the 1980s-1990, but the Realms was not even an established standard setting in those days. In fact, many of the classic adventures in that era came from Greyhawk (e.g. Temple of Elemental Evil) or were simply "setting neutral".

So I guess I like this book because… I seem to be WOTC's perfect "target market". What target market? The 5th Edition gamers and DMs who are either 1) totally brand new to the D&D game, or 2) totally new converts to the Forgotten Realms setting. We don't have extensive knowledge of Faerun like you old grognards. We do not have expert lore knowledge to nitpick this or nitpick that, or to criticize WotC for getting this factoid wrong or that bit of lore wrong. Hence, this SCAG book is like our grand introduction to the Realms. And for that reason alone, this book is a gem.

I do understand, however, that for you old FR grognards, this book is a disappointment because it does not come close to duplicating the level of detail and attention to detail that you all knew in the dozens of FR-specific tomes (many of them written by Greenwood himself I'm guessing) through the past 3 decades.

Well anyways, that's my outsider's point of view, as a relative newcomer to the Realms setting.

Edited by - moonbeast on 11 Nov 2015 06:42:57
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3278 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  08:15:39  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert



I think the book looks good, but I've been burned too much by WotC to pay full price, at this time. Between the discount Barnes & Noble already had on the book, the membership discount, and the coupon I had, I had it shipped to my door for like $23.

I like what I've read thus far, but I've not had time to really get into it.

It is awfully thin, but given the amount I paid, I'm not going to complain about the price.



Just got my copy this week, had just a cursory glance. Like you, I paid at "sale" price at around ~$23 via Amazon (with free shipping).

For me, the book is well worth it. Yes, it's not a very thick book, nor is anything in extensive detail. But I will remind you all that I'm an FR Outsider. Before 5E I was never a Realms fan, nor played in the FR setting. Sure I played D&D since back in my boyhood years in the 1980s-1990, but the Realms was not even an established standard setting in those days. In fact, many of the classic adventures in that era came from Greyhawk (e.g. Temple of Elemental Evil) or were simply "setting neutral".

So I guess I like this book because… I seem to be WOTC's perfect "target market". What target market? The 5th Edition gamers and DMs who are either 1) totally brand new to the D&D game, or 2) totally new converts to the Forgotten Realms setting. We don't have extensive knowledge of Faerun like you old grognards. We do not have expert lore knowledge to nitpick this or nitpick that, or to criticize WotC for getting this factoid wrong or that bit of lore wrong. Hence, this SCAG book is like our grand introduction to the Realms. And for that reason alone, this book is a gem.

I do understand, however, that for you old FR grognards, this book is a disappointment because it does not come close to duplicating the level of detail and attention to detail that you all knew in the dozens of FR-specific tomes (many of them written by Greenwood himself I'm guessing) through the past 3 decades.

Well anyways, that's my outsider's point of view, as a relative newcomer to the Realms setting.



I hear ya, though I've been invested with setting in the mid-90's with games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. You can also purchase previous setting books to focus more on areas you want to explore better or flash out. Books like the Neverwinter Campaign Guide, while using 4e rules, still do a great job of detailing the city and surrounding environs that help in crafting a campaign regardless of edition.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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moonbeast
Learned Scribe

USA
263 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  08:42:19  Show Profile Send moonbeast a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

I hear ya, though I've been invested with setting in the mid-90's with games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights. You can also purchase previous setting books to focus more on areas you want to explore better or flash out. Books like the Neverwinter Campaign Guide, while using 4e rules, still do a great job of detailing the city and surrounding environs that help in crafting a campaign regardless of edition.



Yes, good advice Diffan, and I've already begun to do that! Earlier this year I picked up a copy of the book Ed Greenwood Present's Elminster's The Forgotten Realms. As a newcomer to the Realms, that book gives me a lot of insight. And best of all, the book was written as edition-neutral, even though it seems to have been released during the end of the 4E era.

Are there any other such books from the 3rd and 4th editions that are Realms-specific, that has content that I could easily borrow and incorporate into a 5th Edition campaign?
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
182 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  10:21:58  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

[quote]Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Well anyways, that's my outsider's point of view, as a relative newcomer to the Realms setting.
Welcome moonbeast. I was originally planning on running my next campaign in 1357 DR (AD&D 1e era) and due to what I'd heard about Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide decided to update it to 1489 DR (implied 5e era) as a result. I'm glad to hear you liked it as you're pretty much the target audience (IMO).

You're also off to a good start if you've read Elminster's Guide and enjoyed it (it's my bible for my upcoming campaign). The thing to keep in mind is that the premise of Elminster's Guide was going to be that it had a collection of notes from Ed Greenwood's personal home campaign for FR (which AFAIK is still in the 2e era, possibly up to the 3e era by now). Now given it did have some 4e material it looks like Ed (or WotC) slipped in some info for the updated canon Realms. But some of the material in Elminster's Guide could contradict other sourcebooks because it was always intended to be Ed Greenwood's own personal notes.

Where are you planning on setting your campaign? If it's Waterdeep, then I hear Waterdeep is a good book. If you're looking to incorporate political intrigue and/or taming the frontier wilderness and building strongholds, Powers of Faerun would be a good book. Faiths and Avatars covers the human pantheon and the churches (along with associated organisations) for each god. If you want to change anything, feel free to. Worship of a lot of gods ended during the Spellplague era because many people believed the gods had died. It is now believed by common people that many of those gods are alive now, it's up to you whether or not those gods actually did die or if it was simply believed they died.

Menzoberranzan is located beneath the Sword Coast and was a good sourcebook. Although my favourite (aside from Elminster's Guide) is Grand History of the Realms.

You of course don't need to read any of these books. However I've always thought of more ideas for adventures after reading an FR sourcebook than I had before reading those sourcebooks. So I think there's a lot of value in reading them.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  11:47:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have my first complaint about the book... I found where the word "aren't" had been hyphenated and split across two pages.

I'm not a grammar Nazi, obviously, but that bugged the crap out of me -- that's just poor editing, there.

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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3278 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  13:41:13  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I like books such as: Faiths and Pantheons (3e), Champions of Valor/Ruin (3e), Waterdeep: City of Splendors (3e), Neverwinter Campaign Guide (4e), and Gloomwrought (4e)

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
5117 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  15:10:34  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

Glad to see that Ao's decree about portfolios has been lifted, or weakened at least. Does it say Myrkul still associated with decay/corruption, or if he is related with necromancy in any way, given that Velsharoon seems to be nowhere to be found.

Also, what does it say on Lolth, has she changed in any way?

EDIT: Not even a little reference to what Ed said about Myth Drannor not being completely wiped, and in the process of being possibly rebuilt?



There's a temple to Velsharoon in Mulmaster.



Velsharoon isn't listed in the deity line up.




And yet Velsharoon, Savras, and Leira are listed in Mulmaster's temple of magic as the 3 main gods.

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised after this "points of light" era if the list of "Faerunian" deities is more regionally specific now, such that there's no longer an overarching pantheon any longer.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  15:30:15  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I found a reference to Lurue in the book, as well, and she's not in the deity line up.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 11 Nov 2015 15:30:33
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2572 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  15:52:23  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I found a reference to Lurue in the book, as well, and she's not in the deity line up.



Does she still serve Mielikki?

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  17:24:36  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I found a reference to Lurue in the book, as well, and she's not in the deity line up.



Does she still serve Mielikki?



I don't recall if that was specified, and I don't have the book handy to look.

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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1744 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  17:58:37  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch

quote:
Originally posted by moonbeast

[quote]Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Well anyways, that's my outsider's point of view, as a relative newcomer to the Realms setting.
Welcome moonbeast. I was originally planning on running my next campaign in 1357 DR (AD&D 1e era) and due to what I'd heard about Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide decided to update it to 1489 DR (implied 5e era) as a result. I'm glad to hear you liked it as you're pretty much the target audience (IMO).

You're also off to a good start if you've read Elminster's Guide and enjoyed it (it's my bible for my upcoming campaign). The thing to keep in mind is that the premise of Elminster's Guide was going to be that it had a collection of notes from Ed Greenwood's personal home campaign for FR (which AFAIK is still in the 2e era, possibly up to the 3e era by now). Now given it did have some 4e material it looks like Ed (or WotC) slipped in some info for the updated canon Realms. But some of the material in Elminster's Guide could contradict other sourcebooks because it was always intended to be Ed Greenwood's own personal notes.

Where are you planning on setting your campaign? If it's Waterdeep, then I hear Waterdeep is a good book. If you're looking to incorporate political intrigue and/or taming the frontier wilderness and building strongholds, Powers of Faerun would be a good book. Faiths and Avatars covers the human pantheon and the churches (along with associated organisations) for each god. If you want to change anything, feel free to. Worship of a lot of gods ended during the Spellplague era because many people believed the gods had died. It is now believed by common people that many of those gods are alive now, it's up to you whether or not those gods actually did die or if it was simply believed they died.

Menzoberranzan is located beneath the Sword Coast and was a good sourcebook. Although my favourite (aside from Elminster's Guide) is Grand History of the Realms.

You of course don't need to read any of these books. However I've always thought of more ideas for adventures after reading an FR sourcebook than I had before reading those sourcebooks. So I think there's a lot of value in reading them.



Actually, I don't think it is a matter of belief. It has been established that the gods have indeed returned, but they are "quieter" now, giving their followers more subtle signs. The gods have always been a part of the Realms landscape, they just aren't as involved as they used to be.

Moonbeast, if you are looking for eaelier texts on gods, Deminhuman Deities and Faiths and Avatars would be good, otherwise any of the FR campaign guides give you info on people, deities, places, and history.

Sweet water and light laughter
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1744 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  18:12:55  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Plus, not all the gods died in the Spellplague, anyway. Some did, to be sure (more than they should have), but not all. And now it has been confirmed by Ed and others that they have returned.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
640 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  21:21:01  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I found a reference to Lurue in the book, as well, and she's not in the deity line up.



These are things that would be important to a newcomer as they would ask "Who is Lurue, or who is Velsharoon? They are in the book as having temples but they aren't in the deity line up.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  21:49:03  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The FR Wiki can serve as a stand in for a book reference, in the interim until another sourcebook is (hopefully) released.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
29704 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  22:06:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I found a reference to Lurue in the book, as well, and she's not in the deity line up.



These are things that would be important to a newcomer as they would ask "Who is Lurue, or who is Velsharoon? They are in the book as having temples but they aren't in the deity line up.



Considering that the references I've seen are just passing references, I don't think the newcomer is going to be overly chuffed by not having more info on these two deities, since the ones that are more prominent do have proper coverage.

Lurue is my favorite Realms deity, but I'll be the first to admit that even in earlier editions, she was hardly ever mentioned. She didn't even make the cut to be in the first deity book -- instead, she was in the second one, along with Finder, who had at least appeared in novels.

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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
182 Posts

Posted - 11 Nov 2015 :  23:47:27  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Actually, I don't think it is a matter of belief.
Actually as DM it is up to moon beast whether they died or not. The Sword Coast Adventurers Guide is couched as "this is what people in the Sword Coast think" and there is no reason that as DM moon east can't say "those beliefs are wrong" or contradict canon from earlier editions as well. The Realms is what you make it.
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
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Posted - 12 Nov 2015 :  00:01:22  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I wasn't suggesting that a DM couldn't change things, I was just referring to what -is- canon. The gods have always been part of the Realms, and it's not just a matter of belief because in the Realms, the gods are in fact real. That's canon. And it is also canon that some gods died during the Spellplague and now most if not all of them have returned. If the DM wants to do something different with them, then they are free to do so. But canon is there for a reason, otherwise there would be no point in having an established world and D&D would be very different. There would no lore, no ref books, and no novels. If canon has no merit, then there would be little point in these kinds of forums, no one would care one way or another what happens in what edition, and so forth. But as is evident by various discussions here and elsewhere, people do care. You can't go against canon if there is no canon to go against.

If a DM wants to say "actually these gods died in the Spellplague and didn't return", that is their choice. But as moon beast was curious and is new to the Realms, I was telling them what is in fact canon. They are free to design their own campaign from there. My statement was about what is canon, not about what a DM can or can't do with it.

Sweet water and light laughter
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
182 Posts

Posted - 12 Nov 2015 :  00:38:52  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I wasn't suggesting that a DM couldn't change things, I was just referring to what -is- canon. The gods have always been part of the Realms, and it's not just a matter of belief because in the Realms, the gods are in fact real. That's canon.
In the context of my post it was "here's a bunch of older books you can use. Thanks to the Spellplague and the belief that some gods died (which is referenced in the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide) you can change any of the god details as you like. You can also change which gods did and didn't die."

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

If canon has no merit, then there would be little point in these kinds of forums, no one would care one way or another what happens in what edition, and so forth. But as is evident by various discussions here and elsewhere, people do care. You can't go against canon if there is no canon to go against.
I was speaking as a DM to a new DM about some resources they could use for their game and some facts they could change as suited them. At no point was this an attack on the Forgotten Realms. I apologise if my post offended you or if you felt it was deliberately misleading.
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