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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  02:23:53  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail.



I don't think that they will ever explain how, just leave it at that they're back. I've already said multiple times that I'd love to see the lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey being published, but I'm losing hope that WotC will even consider releasing it.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe

Australia
182 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  02:36:49  Show Profile Send JohnLynch a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail.

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

I don't think that they will ever explain how, just leave it at that they're back. I've already said multiple times that I'd love to see the lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey being published, but I'm losing hope that WotC will even consider releasing it.

For many the Spellplague is a scab on the Forgotten Realms. To continue to revisit the spellplague and it's effects is to keep picking at that scab. WotC simply wants to let it heal and move on.

That isn't making a judgement value (I was first introduced to D&D and the Forgotten Realms with 4th ed so the Spellplague was the FR that I was first aware of and I'm considering running a campaign post-Spellplague). As a DM I am more than capable of coming up with lore (and have) that helps customise the realms to fit in more with what my ideal FR is. Publishing lore on this specific topic would both keep revisiting old wounds and would also limit what DMs could do with all this (assuming said DM wants to remain consistent with canon).

There is definitely value in revisiting these subjects. But I think the negatives outweigh the positives.

Edited by - JohnLynch on 26 Oct 2015 02:37:24
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  02:39:09  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Explanations would help heal the scab, in my opinion, but okay.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  02:40:33  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by JohnLynch

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

It'd be nice if they explained *how* the gods returned, especially ones like V and E. If Ao decided to rewrite the Tablets, okay, but I would like some detail.

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

I don't think that they will ever explain how, just leave it at that they're back. I've already said multiple times that I'd love to see the lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun as archfey being published, but I'm losing hope that WotC will even consider releasing it.

For many the Spellplague is a scab on the Forgotten Realms. To continue to revisit the spellplague and it's effects is to keep picking at that scab. WotC simply wants to let it heal and move on.

That isn't making a judgement value (I was first introduced to D&D and the Forgotten Realms with 4th ed so the Spellplague was the FR that I was first aware of and I'm considering running a campaign post-Spellplague). As a DM I am more than capable of coming up with lore (and have) that helps customise the realms to fit in more with what my ideal FR is. Publishing lore on this specific topic would both keep revisiting old wounds and would also limit what DMs could do with all this (assuming said DM wants to remain consistent with canon).

There is definitely value in revisiting these subjects. But I think the negatives outweigh the positives.



Yes, you make a valid point. Given the reaction a lot of people had to the changes that 4e/end 3e brought to the Realms, WotC doesn't really have good reasons to explain many of the changes beyond the simple ''Ao did it''. However, who knows, some articles, or tidbits in novels could be good way to deliver this kind of information.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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CorellonsDevout
Master of Realmslore

USA
1900 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  02:43:40  Show Profile  Send CorellonsDevout an AOL message Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can see the reasoning behind it, but it's still disappointing. Then again, maybe WotC feels they'll disappoint no matter what they do, which is a terrible position to be in and kind of sad.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  02:48:30  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit

I have the book in front of me, you guys ask me anything you want, lore or crunch.



Does it say anything about Dark Elves (not drow) and the city in the High Moor Steve created in Blackstaff?

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

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Gambit
Learned Scribe

110 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  03:45:08  Show Profile Send Gambit a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

quote:
Originally posted by Gambit

I have the book in front of me, you guys ask me anything you want, lore or crunch.



Does it say anything about Dark Elves (not drow)


Dark elves that aren't drow? I mean I know thats a thing in Dragonlance, but I'm not sure what you are talking about in the FR sense.

quote:
and the city in the High Moor Steve created in Blackstaff?

There is a paragraph on Rhymanthiin: Hidden City of Hope, I am guessing this is what you are referring to (I never read the Blackstaff novel).
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  03:54:51  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
He's referring to the followers of Eilistraee that were uncursed by Q'arlynd Melarn, at the end of 3e. If the section about the elves and Eilistraee doesn't talk about them, then I doubt that they are in the book.

They were supposed to go Rhymanthiin after their transformation, but I guess that WotC is acting as if Lady Penitent never happened.

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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  04:07:56  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yep Rhymanthiin

As for Dark elves at the end of Lady Pentient trilogy they use High magic to reverse the Dark elves transformation into drow.

At the time if you where a Follower or Cleric of Ellistrae or if you bloodline hadnt been contaminated with the Balor Wendai taint (basicly if you didnt have a Demon ancestor)then they where transformed into Dark elves at the end of the novel.

Rhymanthiin was a city in a Dark elf Kingdom where the High moor is. The Sun Elf kingdom Aryvandaar used high magic to destroy the Dark elf kingdom with a massive lightning storm that created the High Moor during the crown wars, in reponse another Dark elf kingdom far to the south after hearing what had happaned responded to the Sun elf genocide by commiting the own acts of genocide. The Dark elf kingdom lost the war and the Elven High Mages transformed the Dark elves into drow and forced them underground. But they did it not just to those Dark elves that commited genocide but ALL dark elves including those Dark elves who had survived the Lightning storms

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  13:46:34  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Garen Thal

quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

So Vhaeraun seems to have kept his portfolio, at least.



Yeah. At the end it is just a matter of little importance, but for a deity called ''The Lady of the Dance'', or ''The Dark Dancer'', losing the portfolio of Dance is quite ironic...
I think folks might be reading a little more into the portfolio listings than is appropriate. In the end, we're talking about a couple of words in a chart.

Does anyone really think that Eilistraee isn't still the drow goddess of dance because of that chart? Do folks think that omission implies a substantive change? I doubt very much that including "song, beauty, dance, swordwork, hunting, [and] moonlight" (the 2E list from [I]Demihuman Deities[I]) would have fit. Lolth had evil, darkness, chaos, assassins, and the drow race as part of her portfolio in 2E, too, and I don't think anyone is interpreting the SCAG listing to mean that she somehow lost any of those areas of influence.

I usually try to keep as quiet as I can on these things, and let people form their own opinions, but for the deity listings, I wouldn't assume that something that could be subsumed in another portfolio element being missing indicates a deity has lost that portfolio item. Certain gods with certain portfolios, sure, but "dance" can very easily fall under "song," especially on a summary chart with very little room to expand.




Yes, I thought that Dance was no longer among her portfolio. Considering that, unlike Lolth, Eilistraee has disappeared and then been reborn, losing something isn't out of the question, especially given the bit of info about her in Spellstorm. I was even under the impression that she had become a demipower, or something along those lines. At the end it's just a minor matter, but thanks for clarifying.

EDIT: I'm talking about her small description, where the list includes every single 2e portfolio, save for dance. That's what made it rather puzzling.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 26 Oct 2015 13:52:53
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1087 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  14:37:57  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Its not just Sharess that's left out, but most of the demigods. That's very disappointing, they were supposed to bring the Pantheons back, not dump the demigods.


I'm looking at both the 3E FRCS and SCAG right now, here is a breakdown of the Faerunian pantheon demigod deities (those who had a "D" next to their name in the FRCS) who both made the new book and those who were left out.

Included:
Gwaeron Windstrom
Hoar
Jergal
Red Knight
Sarvas
Valkur

Not included:
Finder Wyvernspur
Garagos
Gargauth
Lurue (though she is mentioned in the Mielikki section)
Nobanion
Sharess
Shiallia
Siamorphe
Ulutiu
Velsharoon



Well I know a chosen of Siamorphe is still there, she has a chosen in Sundering books, and Nobanion makes a direct appearance in that series as well, so I suppose that means Sharess is likely still around, but its absolutely silly that we still don't have access to the full Pantheon of Gods.

Edited by - Gyor on 26 Oct 2015 14:42:07
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1087 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  14:48:00  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One interesting thing I noticed when someone quoted the Mulhorandi gods sidebar, Horus and Ra are seperate beings again, state of being they haven't had since before the Orcgate War.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1087 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  14:51:17  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

Then they should have done more than a simple summary chart. But I get your point.



The poor writers had no room, yet they left Gods out because WotC didn't allow them to make the book big enough. What we need is a FRCG, not the SCAG,but the SCAG is what we got.

At least is answers some questions I guess.
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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe

Norway
410 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  16:51:18  Show Profile  Visit Caladan Brood's Homepage Send Caladan Brood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The more I've read about it the less SCAG feels like a mandatory purchase :(
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  17:18:07  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood

The more I've read about it the less SCAG feels like a mandatory purchase :(

If I were you, I would wait until reviews of the book are posted by people who actually own the book and have read it from cover to cover.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
789 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  17:34:44  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If we don't buy it, we are less likely to see more published Realms lore or a true FRCS. I have to get it, just like I bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Which was so awesomesauce I hope everyone bought a spare copy.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30019 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  18:01:06  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer

quote:
Originally posted by Caladan Brood

The more I've read about it the less SCAG feels like a mandatory purchase :(

If I were you, I would wait until reviews of the book are posted by people who actually own the book and have read it from cover to cover.



And perhaps flip thru it and read some bits whilst in the bookstore.

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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  19:35:31  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is Moander mentioned anywhere in the book?

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Caladan Brood
Senior Scribe

Norway
410 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  19:50:01  Show Profile  Visit Caladan Brood's Homepage Send Caladan Brood a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

If we don't buy it, we are less likely to see more published Realms lore or a true FRCS. I have to get it, just like I bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Which was so awesomesauce I hope everyone bought a spare copy.



Agreed, it's the book that brought me back to the Realms - this time for full :)
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dazzlerdal
Great Reader

United Kingdom
3346 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  20:47:20  Show Profile Send dazzlerdal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

If we don't buy it, we are less likely to see more published Realms lore or a true FRCS. I have to get it, just like I bought Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms. Which was so awesomesauce I hope everyone bought a spare copy.




I'm not sure that's how capitalism is supposed to work. If you buy something you don't like then they will continue to make something you don't like because you bought what they released previously and they will believe you want them to continue producing something you don't like because of the number of sales.

If you don't buy it then any number of things could happen, including they abandon the IP and someone else picks it up, they go bust and someone else takes over the IP (like TSR and WoTC), they realise the error of their ways and change what they produce to something you do like (after they get it wrong a few more times of course).

If coca cola abandoned all their old flavours and made only bogie flavoured coke, they would continue to produce it as long as people kept buying it.

In old dragon magazines they used to talk about the bean counters and how they were obsessed with beans and how they often missed the point of something but used to get things right purely by accident. Well now they have gotten something really wrong, but they wont realise that unless you hit them in the beans.

If you like it, then buy it, but if you don't, then to buy it is madness.

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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
789 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  20:54:11  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I was speaking more to people who are on the fence because there isn't enough lore, rather than those people who don't like the book at all. I still think if the book sells well it is the best way to get a 5edition FRCS which we all want here (well I assume we do at Candlekeep!).
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  21:39:42  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Anyone know when where likely to see WOTC 2016 release scheduele?

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  22:46:30  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

Anyone know when where likely to see WOTC 2016 release scheduele?



They don't do schedules anymore. They announce their stuff a couple months before their release.

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
2672 Posts

Posted - 26 Oct 2015 :  23:12:48  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I hear that the book also contains updates (and not just a paragraph) on Lantan and Nimbral, which is a pleasant surprise to me. The interesting thing is that people are saying that the part of the book detailing the various regions, reads as a volo guide, with the various places described from the viewpoint of a different traveler/explorer for each region, and I think that this is a really nice touch.

Btw, is there anything on Skullport and the Promenade?

To all Facebook-using FR fans, you might be interested in checking out this page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/450517575051806/

Edited by - Irennan on 26 Oct 2015 23:41:03
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Dargoth
Great Reader

Australia
4569 Posts

Posted - 27 Oct 2015 :  00:20:53  Show Profile  Visit Dargoth's Homepage Send Dargoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan

quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth

Anyone know when where likely to see WOTC 2016 release scheduele?



They don't do schedules anymore. They announce their stuff a couple months before their release.



Do they normally announce the next FR product when they release an already announced one?

“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”

Emperor Sigismund

"Its good to be the King!"

Mel Brooks
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