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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2017 :  02:43:22  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Always listening/watching. All good. Waiting patiently. Life for all of us gets in the way of this stuff!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2017 :  20:58:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just got done re-working The Moonsea (which seems to change shape in every edition, even in the very early ones), which lead to me playing around with Vaasa. I've actually managed to squeeze most of the map from Brian James' article on the area into the existing map, with no rotation. Not sure how that was possible - it seems he hadn't rotated the main river there as much as the 3e maps did elsewhere. Interesting. None of Vaasa will even be seen on the first three I'm releasing, but I have to work all of this out so I don't run into problems moving forward (rivers and roads being the major concern). I never noticed before, there was a road (Dead Man's Walk) going from Moortown in Vaasa to Ilinvuur (Ilinver) in The Ride, so there were actually two passes/trails through those mountains. Because of the fudgery of the 3e maps we had lost one.

I have to say, this 'blending' I'm doing in this region is really working out well - I've used bits of 5 different Moonsea maps to get it just right (so when you look at it, it will still look like the edition of your preference - hows that for some cartographic prestidigitation?)

Beware - I did take some liberties with the River Lis - there has to be some leftover 'carnage' from the 4e era. Whereas I am assuming the Dragonmere (which actually turned into Dragon Lake for a short time) wasn't badly affected because of the shallowness of The Neck (the water receded faster then The Neck could be 'gouged out'), the Moonsea wasn't so lucky. The Lis' silty bottom was too easily washed-away, and the upper part of the River has now become a bay. For a short time, the 'Bell in the Depths' was even visible above the water (Northkeep itself was briefly above the water again), but the Spellplague also seemed to have hastened the melting of nearby glaciers, so as the water levels began to stabilize, the Moonsea refilled within a few years from all that extra thaw run-off (assume all of that happened within the first 20 years or so during the 'lost century'). This all helps explain a LOT of stuff, but mostly because it allowed me to create my 'amalgam Moonsea' and have an in-game explanations for the slight differences (and keep all those wonderful tiny islands Mike Schley created on his Vaasa map).

Maybe I'll have something presentable to put-up later.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Sep 2017 21:13:23
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2017 :  15:09:05  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Made a rookie mistake yesterday... hadn't saved in several hours. Went to finally save and GIMP crashed.

Aaaaaaaargh.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31633 Posts

Posted - 11 Sep 2017 :  17:11:24  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Made a rookie mistake yesterday... hadn't saved in several hours. Went to finally save and GIMP crashed.

Aaaaaaaargh.



Does it autosave backup files anywhere? That once saved me, with Word -- though, oddly, it turned out that Word would not open its own backup file. I had to open with Notepad and copy back to Word, to save a couple hours' work. (This was many years ago, and a lesson learned!)

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  03:31:54  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It crashed AGAIN. I think its a memory problem - the files I am working with are too large. I haven't yet fully migrated to my new computer (the idea of finding and loading in all those fonts and textures again scares me LOL), but I guess I need to just take the plunge tomorrow. This old machine just can't handle it anymore. I'll just use it as a server on my network, so I don't have to transfer-over non-vital stuff, like all my po... pony pics.


"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 13 Sep 2017 23:12:29
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31633 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  04:35:43  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

It crashed AGAIN. I think its a memory problem - the files I am working with are too large. I haven't yet fully migrated to my new computer (the idea of finding and loading in all those fonts and textures again scares me LOL), but I guess I need to just take the plunge tomorrow. This old machine just can handle it anymore. I'll just use it as a server on my network, so I don't have to transfer-over non-vital stuff, like all my po... pony pics.





I'd admit to a lot of things before admitting I was a Brony.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2017 :  23:16:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just crashed again. UGH

Waiting for a new adapter wire in the mail before I fully migrate to the new machine (I need to convert SATA to micro-SATA, because the Power Supply I bought didn't come with adapters). It should have been here already - I need to go check the mailbox again.

At least now I am saving every 5 minutes, so all I lost was one really long path (sorry River Ashaba... we hardly knew ye).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2017 :  23:53:19  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think I figured-out the cause - the FR Wiki. If I have that open, it causes GIMP's path tool to crash GIMP. I knew the FR-Wiki was a resource pig, but I didn't know it was also vampiric.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 14 Sep 2017 23:53:39
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2219 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2017 :  07:17:17  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
get the stake and holy water

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2017 :  14:40:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It all seems to lead back to Adobe and Flash. GIMP runs entirely on Flash (I think), and any sites that run lots of ads will do it.

And that shouldn't be a problem at all if I could just get my new video card working in my new computer. Seems I have 'a rare compatibility issue'. Grrrrrrrr...

So now I have beautiful new computer, and a $300 paperweight.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31633 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2017 :  15:39:18  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

It all seems to lead back to Adobe and Flash. GIMP runs entirely on Flash (I think), and any sites that run lots of ads will do it.

And that shouldn't be a problem at all if I could just get my new video card working in my new computer. Seems I have 'a rare compatibility issue'. Grrrrrrrr...

So now I have beautiful new computer, and a $300 paperweight.



I assume you've gone to the manufacturer's site for the most recent drivers?

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 18 Sep 2017 :  17:45:17  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, and thats the problem. I had it working... BRIEFLY... and then windows decided it needed to "install the latest drivers". Windows 10 is a NIGHTMARE. The latest drivers won't work on my machine (like I said, its a weird compatibility issue), so I need to use an older driver. The problem is, it does this automatically, and the issue is causing windows to crash as soon as it loads. There is a fix I read about online, but I have to go into the BIOS and disable 'fast load' of Windows, but in windows 10, you can ONLY enter the BIOS through Windows!!! (and I'd like to put my hands around the throat of whatever asshat engineer thought THAT was good idea!)

On some machines you can still enter BIOS other ways, but not on my shiny new HP - instead I can only enter their own, PROPRIETY front-end, which doesn't let you actually enter the BIOS, just look at it and say hello (and change a couple of extremely basic things, like power usage, etc). So between the brand comp., brand Vid card, and Windows 10, I am pulling my hair out. I have one last thing to try, otherwise I am sending this damn thing back to Amazon.

Gonna have to pull the card out and try booting to windows (and then to BIOS) that way, so windows doesn't crash, try changing my BIOS, and THEN putting the card back in. Because of how honkin' huge the card is, and the limited space in the factory PC, I have to unplug a bunch of crap just to get it in and out, and I've already broken the connector for my SATA cable that way (so on my brand spanking new computer I have a broken CD drive I never even got to use... which is whole 'nother headache, because I had to hook-up an old CD drive just to load the drivers off a disc). My pretty new computer looks like Frankenstein at this point, with an an old drive hanging off the side of it.

But if I can get it working, it will be DA BOMB.
I'll basically be able to run games made by guys who haven't even been born yet.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 19 Sep 2017 06:46:57
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2017 :  22:13:43  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So here I am, working on a city map (thats nearing completion), and I started thinking about the cemetery...

And at the same time, I am reading The Haunted Lands trilogy - I'm just getting past the war as of today (its been VERY slow going). In it, the problem arises that has come up hundreds (probably more like thousands, that we never heard about it) of times: Why the freak are people still burying their dead? SERIOUSLY - you live in a world with necromancers, and sometimes the graveyards are INSIDE the damn city walls!

I'm sorry, but in FR, it must be fairly simple to be a Mage - we have to wave the minimum Int score rule, because there can't possibly be a single IQ over 90 in The Realms. I simply CANNOT bring myself to do a cemetery. I CAN'T. No-one would ever build one in a world like this!

"Hey, lets bury our dead, that way, the next time some evil Wizard is in town, we get to see grandma again..."


NOPE... not having none of that.
Cremation should be a law... with a death-penalty attached if anyone broke it. You may as well invite that tribe of Orcs down from the mountains for a party.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 29 Sep 2017 22:15:53
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1122 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2017 :  22:51:35  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know, they mocked this in Dragon Age. In that setting, people cremate their deaths just for this possibility (only in one place people entomb their dead people, and they do so in a necropolis sealed to the outside world and guarded by an order of mages and soldiers). And they this not only because the law enforces this, but also because the religion made people conscious of the possibility of attacks from the undead.

As for people in the Realms... well, I can only blame religion.

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...

Edited by - Zeromaru X on 29 Sep 2017 22:53:27
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Adhriva
Learned Scribe

USA
144 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2017 :  22:57:50  Show Profile  Visit Adhriva's Homepage  Send Adhriva an AOL message  Send Adhriva a Yahoo! Message Send Adhriva a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good point. Perhaps magic, as part of the burial rights, wards against such. Maybe necromancy works on those who have been dead long enough (bones rotted away to calcium deposits which aren't magically protected), wasn't given said ritual rights, and/or part of the necromantic art requires circumvention as a foundation for all the spells (and being a largely forbidden school, the burial rights aren't updated at the same pace) depending on the kind of dead raised.

In the West, cemeteries came to widespread use specifically because of the Christian belief of resurrection. We see cemeteries outside and beyond that, but that certainly popularized it. A deities' blessing in a world like FR over the dead could go a long way towards prevention. If an early deity oversaw that aspect and was killed, passed their power off, etc. in an event that wasn't recorded then it might have become a widespread tradition that, outside of arcane and historical circles, hasn't been given a reason to question if it still works until that rare necromancer comes along.

Professional illustrator and comic book artist.
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2017 :  23:29:03  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

So here I am, working on a city map (thats nearing completion), and I started thinking about the cemetery...

And at the same time, I am reading The Haunted Lands trilogy - I'm just getting past the war as of today (its been VERY slow going). In it, the problem arises that has come up hundreds (probably more like thousands, that we never heard about it) of times: Why the freak are people still burying their dead? SERIOUSLY - you live in a world with necromancers, and sometimes the graveyards are INSIDE the damn city walls!

I'm sorry, but in FR, it must be fairly simple to be a Mage - we have to wave the minimum Int score rule, because there can't possibly be a single IQ over 90 in The Realms. I simply CANNOT bring myself to do a cemetery. I CAN'T. No-one would ever build one in a world like this!

"Hey, lets bury our dead, that way, the next time some evil Wizard is in town, we get to see grandma again..."


NOPE... not having none of that.
Cremation should be a law... with a death-penalty attached if anyone broke it. You may as well invite that tribe of Orcs down from the mountains for a party.



They don't bury dead in Impiltur. Everyone gets cremated. The "Cleansing Fire" of the Triad.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
7589 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  00:43:13  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Adhriva

Good point. Perhaps magic, as part of the burial rights, wards against such. Maybe necromancy works on those who have been dead long enough (bones rotted away to calcium deposits which aren't magically protected), wasn't given said ritual rights, and/or part of the necromantic art requires circumvention as a foundation for all the spells (and being a largely forbidden school, the burial rights aren't updated at the same pace) depending on the kind of dead raised.

In the West, cemeteries came to widespread use specifically because of the Christian belief of resurrection. We see cemeteries outside and beyond that, but that certainly popularized it. A deities' blessing in a world like FR over the dead could go a long way towards prevention. If an early deity oversaw that aspect and was killed, passed their power off, etc. in an event that wasn't recorded then it might have become a widespread tradition that, outside of arcane and historical circles, hasn't been given a reason to question if it still works until that rare necromancer comes along.



I thought it was in the old 1e Lords of Darkness, but I don't see it there.... but somewhere they specifically talked about this that most dead have certain spells cast upon them to prevent the re-rising as undead. That being said, the degree that this works may vary based on the spell used. For instance, low level clerics may only be able to prevent skeleton/zombie creation, but if some more powerful necromancer comes along things are still open.

Keeping the body around might have started with folks just wanting to hold onto the hope that they could find someone to raise their family member from the dead (because the lesser spells require the body intact).

Also, cemeteries themselves may be formed because maybe rather than blessing the dead body (or maybe in addition to it) they actually plant the body in ground consecrated to a god, and doing so may prevent the raising of the dead without someone physically exhuming each dead body. This might mean grave robbers happen, but in general they'll likely get caught, and if the punishment matches the crime (i.e. grave robbers are deliberately animated as undead set to guard cemeteries?), it may actually curb this. Also, some cultures may see the raising of undead as emergency defenders of the living to be a viable method of defending towns (I can see some clergy of Tempus being perfectly fine with it to defend a town , so long as the dead are then put back in their graves afterward... hell, even priests of Helm may see this as viable)

This being said, evil cultures of humanoids may see no problem with animating their own dead. It may not be a cultural taboo. Thus, we may actually find that a lot of undead skeletons/zombies are actually goblins, orcs, ogres, etc...

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Zeromaru X
Master of Realmslore

Colombia
1122 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  02:25:19  Show Profile Send Zeromaru X a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

They don't bury dead in Impiltur. Everyone gets cremated. The "Cleansing Fire" of the Triad.

-- George Krashos



I can feel this more true after the Spellplague, when demons came and people just "Undead armies? Nope. Just nope."

Long ago, in the distant past, they fell into decay. The philosopher’s path... The river of glory... Even the saints resting in the darkness rise up without response and block the way...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  04:49:03  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The problem, Sleyvas (and everyone else), that in The Haunted Lands, a nation pretty-much overrun with necromancers (and undead everywhere, even before Szass Tam took over), they were burying their dead. TWICE Szass Tam took major military targets simply by raising the dead within the city walls. It was that easy... and there was ZERO resistance to his magic. Of course, he also made Bane his b***h in that same book.

Oh, and he was doing this stuff WHILE the Spellplague made magic go wonky.. so that was in his 'nerfed' condition (don't want to give too much away, but the first time he did the 'dead within the walls' thing was before his Cosmic McGuffin happened, so that can't be why he was casting with almost no problems).

Anyhow, that series aside, it doesn't matter. Its the one big thing thats always bothered me about Waterdeep - they have a sleeping army of enemies within the walls (and at least once, its become a problem... yet they still do it). The only place ebil Wizards should be able to 'raise dead' is on old battlefields, where a lot of folks died without the proper rights. After all, shouldn't at least a few dozen gods be getting REALLY angry whenever some archomancer does this? Tam was even summoning the spirits of ancient dead... shouldn't they have been in their gods realms?

I really hate undeath... too many holes in it for my liking. Thanks for clearing that up, Krash - I wasn't going to do one anyways (the 'Barrowfields' are just north of that city anyway, so I figure if there was a cemetery, it could be 'just off the map' in that direction).

Next nitpick - FR settlements have WAY too may people. Compare it to GH, or just about any other RPG setting, or even RW Middle-ages. FR seems to have really embraced the whole 'citystate' thing much more than any other setting I know. That's why FR is also just about the only setting I know with 'soft borders', in most places. Seems it had points of Light before WotC ever came up with that term; true 'nations' are few and far between. And I am only complaining because MAN, do i have to draw a LOT of buildings.

Ya know... because I actually do the math and figure-out things like population densities. I never realized that was a big deal until I worked on Daggerford... even with increasing the scale the place was still not right. Damn you, FR, and your INSANE urban populations.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Sep 2017 15:29:07
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  09:50:36  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ancient Rome had a population of 1 million.

And Waterdeep's 'City of the Dead' hasn't got thousands of corpses in it. Most are in extra-dimensional demiplanes.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 30 Sep 2017 10:02:11
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5339 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  10:02:52  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ancient Rome had a population of 1 million.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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sfdragon
Great Reader

2219 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  10:17:01  Show Profile Send sfdragon a Private Message  Reply with Quote
the city itself ? or the empire?

why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power


My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234
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Nilonim
Acolyte

14 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  12:41:19  Show Profile  Visit Nilonim's Homepage Send Nilonim a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The city itself!
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon

the city itself ? or the empire?

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  15:49:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That was an exception, not 'the rule'. We also had Constantinople (pretty-much my favorite ancient city).

But Waterdeep isn't even the biggest - its only like 5th largest, or some-such.

Realistically, a 'nation' (I use that term loosely, because in FR, it IS a pretty loose definition) should only have one, maybe two major cities, during such a time period. I suppose one might argue this makes FR 'more realistic', in that the presence of monsters (and 'evil races') cause people to cluster more. Its hard to figure-out the societies that would form in a fantasy situation, though.

I probably should have started a new scroll for this, but I may as well continue my train of thought - I've been trying to think of a good place where something like pre-unification Italy could be happening, with sovereign states making up a psuedo-nation, of sorts. I used to think of Sembia, or Amn, because of the economic factors ('Merchant of Venice'), but really, the only country that actually fits that scenario was Thay, before Szass Tam did a whammy on it. Countries of citystates aren't quite the same thing (that was a precursor to what happened in Italy, with the borders of the 'ruling cities' extending until they touched the borders of other powerful cities). I'm almost thinking Imaskar went through a period like this, with lots of smaller, semi-autonomous states all around them. The key factor here (for Italy and Thay), though, is that the member-states don't like each other, and even fight amongst themselves. Once again, citystates aren't precisely the same situation (although it looked like Chessenta was moving in that direction, but lord knows whats going on there now).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 30 Sep 2017 15:50:11
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
31633 Posts

Posted - 30 Sep 2017 :  16:41:51  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

That was an exception, not 'the rule'. We also had Constantinople (pretty-much my favorite ancient city).



And remember: every gal in Constantinople lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople, so if you have a date in Constantinople, she'll be waiting in Istanbul.

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