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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 10 Jan 2017 :  22:23:57  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hahah it was worth it. I think I'll have to move on to those BG books next. I think I read the originals back when they came out but I don't remember anything.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2017 :  19:13:57  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished Halls of Stormweather last night. Of the 7 novellas, I really enjoyed 6 of them. I also liked how frequently some characters would appear in each other's stories, to help bring some interconnectivity to the whole project. It was very nicely executed, for the most part.

The Burning Chalice - Ed Greenwood - centered around Thamalon, the patriarch of the Uskevren clan. This was a great start to the book, and helped set the tone and history of the family. I think this is Greenwood at his finest, when he's just spinning lore, creating characters/relations, smart dialogue, and so on. Absent were the beholders and dragons swooping out of the sky to attack, phaerimm and drow boiling up from Underdark passages, Zhent mages and ancient liches teleporting onto the scene - all the manic energy that goes into so many of his other works. Instead we have him laying out a history and groundwork, which he does so superbly.

Song of Chaos - Richard Lee Byers - Shamur, the "matriarch". I liked this story, and the creative means (demonic opera causing mass hallucinations/transformations) of dropping a lot of expository information about her past and how she is actually impersonating another woman. [I should put this last part in a spoiler dropdown, as soon as I figure out the syntax for doing that] That would've been hard to get across in another format. This was an interesting story with lots of action and adventure.

Night School - Clayton Emery - Tamlin, the first son. The silliest of the 7 stories, plus the author's style continues to confound me. "Spanked" made yet another appearance, and hams has been replaced this time around by rump. I'd like this guy to write just one story where the status of every combatant's ass isn't constantly updated. Odd verbage aside, it just wasn't a very good story. It had a lot of slapstick element to it, and Tamlin seemed very different in this tale than in the appearances he makes in the others.

The Price - Voronica Whitney-Robinson - "Tazi". It's hard not to like this character, she's got a wild, impetuous streak that chafes at the rigid life of an aristocrats daughter. Her night-time adventures get her in way over her head when a strange cult/necromancer is found to be operating right in the city. Middle of the road story, but still pretty good.

Thirty Days - Dave Gross - Talbot. Excellent lycanthrope story with a few twists and turns. Tal is a bit of a bro but still amongst the most likeable of the Uskevren clan. I enjoyed the battle for his soul between the priests of rival "beast of the night" factions - Malar and Selune. I also like how Tal's independence is more important to him than simply throwing in immediately with the perceived "good" side. Good, solid story all-around. I was sort of hoping Tal would end up with Larajin, romantically, when I first read this, but then end up changing my mind (for obvious reasons) when I got to her story at the end.

Resurrection - Paul Kemp - Erevis Cale "The Butler". I've heard nothing but praise for Kemp prior to this, my first exposure to his work. I liked, but didn't love this story. I felt the exact same way about Elaine Cunningham's Elfshadow (which puts me in the minority, I know). I've since come to find her works amongst the very best the Realms has to offer, and I sort of got that same tingle when I started this story. Is Kemp my next Cunningham? Too early to tell for sure, but my interest was piqued enough to check his Wikipedia page to see how many books he contributes to the line.

Skin Deep - Lisa Smedman - Larajin, the maid. I didn't know what to think when I started this one. Larajin made a few appearances in earlier tales - masquerading as Tazi, interacting with Talbot, etc. But I didn't think her character important enough to warrant an entire novella. I was hooked at the injured tressym. My wife and I do some work with stray/shelter animals, so as soon as I saw how much she cared about helping that injured animal, I was hopelessly enamored with her character. After her heritage was revealed, I'm certainly glad she and Tal did not go any further.

Man, there sure is a lot of intrigue in this one, small clan! A father who is privately smitten with all things elven (artwork/sculpture/women) in a country with extremely high anti-elf prejudice, a mother that is actually a time-travelling, adventuring imposter, a werewolf son, an amateur thief daughter, a butler/spy, and a maid that is actually a half-elven bastard (is there a female version for that word?) This book, other than the Tamlin entry, was an intriguing, exciting, and very fun read overall.

Up next is the conclusion of the Cormyr Saga, in Death of the Dragon.



Edited by - VikingLegion on 17 Jan 2017 16:56:05
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2017 :  22:15:23  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really liked the Talbot character (and the homage to Larry Talbot in naming). Black Wolf is a good tale, I think the best werewolf fiction I've read from the Realms anyway (if there are others, like the Ravenloft werewolf story?).

I really liked Sembia as a setting, prior to the events of the Shade taking it over anyway. Sigh. Yet another RSE that destroyed something great rather than created a new area or fleshed out an existing area. Thank god Sembia like almost everything else is back to normal in 5th edition.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2017 :  17:08:28  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

I really liked the Talbot character (and the homage to Larry Talbot in naming). Black Wolf is a good tale, I think the best werewolf fiction I've read from the Realms anyway (if there are others, like the Ravenloft werewolf story?).


Good catch on Talbot's name, I would've never noticed that. I just checked my reading order and Black Wolf is coming up for me in the not-too-distant future. I did not realize Talbot's story continues, but good to know and thanks for putting that on my radar. Off the top of my head I can't think of too many werewolf tales in any of the D&D fiction. I recall a were-spider in the Ravenloft "Tales" anthology that had a pretty good story, although it wasn't the main character. Actually I think the protagonist was a lycanthrope of some type (the werewolf you are referring to possibly) and had to do battle with the widow. Was he some kind of red-haired, berserk, Viking-like warrior in his non-beast state? I'll have to look that one up, it's been many years.

quote:

I really liked Sembia as a setting, prior to the events of the Shade taking it over anyway. Sigh. Yet another RSE that destroyed something great rather than created a new area or fleshed out an existing area. Thank god Sembia like almost everything else is back to normal in 5th edition.



Oh man, Seravin... you just keep raining on my parade. First with the awful news about changes in Thay, now you're telling me Sembia gets a similar treatment? Damn these RSEs, damn them all to the Nine Hells. It almost makes me want to get to a certain point in this project and then cut it off, to preserve "my Realms" as I know them. But I know my completionist nature will compel me to read them all. *sigh*
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2017 :  21:24:32  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes, Sembia (specifically Saerloon) was once my favourite place in the Realms along with the Moonsea area, but the events leading up to 4th edition meant it became a place for the Shade Princes to rule...and a city gets completely nuked, and Sembia goes from cool Plutocracy with gothic-styled gargoyle-filled old cities and a 100% mercenary army that kinda hates elves but isn't really evil ...a unique place..to just being the Shade's puppet territory and evil because Shade is black shadows and that's what cool kids want. More Shade and Shadows everywhere! (If the Shade could have been Drow I'm sure WoTC would have had an orgasm of delight).

The Shade have flying cities, they could have just been stationed over Anarauch or anywhere vacant really. But due to the Cale being from Sembia I guess it just made sense to have them place the Shade takeover there.

Ugh. Sorry to be spoiling your fun and potentially any plotlines of these old books (I don't think any of the above is very detailed in future novels). It's a ways off, and yes, to me MY REALMS is always someplace in Old Grey Box era where Thay was ruled by Zulkirs and Sembia was a merchant kingdom and Azoun ruled Cormyr with Vangey and Khelben ruled Waterdeep and Mourngrym ruled Shadowdale with Elminster and the Knights and Manshoon ruled Zhentil Keep and Alustriel ruled Silverymoon and the bulk of the elves just left the Elven Wood for Evermeet and yeah...the good old days! :)

Edited by - Seravin on 17 Jan 2017 21:30:37
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Iahn Qoyllor
Acolyte

United Kingdom
46 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2017 :  10:54:33  Show Profile Send Iahn Qoyllor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't know if you've read Mistress of the Night yet which is a joint collaboration between Dave Gross and Don Bassingthwaite and forms part of The Priests novels, of which there were four. This is a book with werewolves and a decent read at that.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author

USA
1705 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2017 :  14:44:08  Show Profile  Visit Steven Schend's Homepage Send Steven Schend a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
Persana's Blade - Steven E. Schend - overall pretty decent, but I thought it suffered a tad from some technical errors and was just a tiny bit confusing. It felt like the author was trying to establish a kickass new character, perhaps one that could be utilized in later materials, though I'm not sure a triton has enough appeal or relatability to really catch on. I don't fully know what the main character transformed into at the end, and I thought that could've been explained a little more clearly and/or expanded on. But maybe that was the point, I don't know.


Thanks for the even-handed comments on my first published attempt at fiction in the Realms, VL. I didn't intend for Keros to be a major character, though I'd have been happy to make him a POV for further exploring the undersea cultures in stories (something that never happened). Still, I can't recall if I wrote the story first and then added more expository detail to him in SEA OF FALLEN STARS or the other way around, but the two pieces should present a more complete picture of him and the [i][Claw of Xynact/i].

Steven Schend

For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2017 :  19:55:17  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend

Thanks for the even-handed comments on my first published attempt at fiction in the Realms, VL. I didn't intend for Keros to be a major character, though I'd have been happy to make him a POV for further exploring the undersea cultures in stories (something that never happened). Still, I can't recall if I wrote the story first and then added more expository detail to him in SEA OF FALLEN STARS or the other way around, but the two pieces should present a more complete picture of him and the Claw of Xynact.

Steven Schend



Thanks for chiming in with that. Though I've been removed from D&D (the game) for enough years that I never thought I'd buy another source book, I've heard nothing but praise for Sea of Fallen Stars and am planning to pick up a copy just to sate my curiosity. There was so much great stuff presented in the "Threat from the Sea" event (both the trilogy and the anthology). I feel like Myth Nantar alone is worthy of a ~20 session or so campaign. The Dukars and Shalarin are also new to me, and where is this Sea of Corynactis that they originated from? Toril, or off-world? Fascinating stuff that I definitely need to look further into.

Also, I did read that it was your first foray (I tend to turn to the back of every book and read the author blurbs before starting on the story itself, is that odd?) so I was aware of that and factoring it in. I'm sure if I re-read some of those shorts, after the sourcebook, I'll get a lot more out of them the second time around.

Edited by - VikingLegion on 23 Jan 2017 20:07:06
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2017 :  20:21:19  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

The Dukars and Shalarin are also new to me, and where is this Sea of Corynactis that they originated from? Toril, or off-world?



It was originally not specified, but later material put it somewhere near Maztica, IIRC.

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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2017 :  20:31:01  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished Death of the Dragon last night, thus concluding the Cormyr Saga. It was an up-and-down series. Book 1 was absolutely terrific, 2 was mediocre, and 3 was somewhere in between. I'm glad to see the ghazneth plotline come to a finish, it had pretty much run its course for me.

There's some serious fallout from this story. Seravin and I were just discussing RSEs - well losing King Azoun IV, one of the iconic staples of "MY REALMS" (I don't care if I sound like an old curmudgeon when I type that), is a pretty huge one. Of course I knew it was going to happen, there was gobs of foreshadowing (not to mention the very title itself), and some small part of my subconscious knew that Alusair ruled Cormyr at one point (from inadvertently digging too deeply into a Wiki), so it was obvious this was going to happen. Even still, when the deed actually came about, I was stunned.

I think this book could've shaved off about 50 pages and not been the worse for it. I think some authors try to ratchet up the drama with more and more endless hordes of bad guys, but at some point it becomes counter-exciting; What? Another 2,000 goblins just crested the hill. Ok, CHARGE! (again). Also, Ed really likes to introduce brand new characters for about a page and a half, only to slaughter them. This is a fun and interesting tactic - when used sparingly to keep the reader on their toes, but it is possible to go to that well too often.

That aside, it was a rather sweeping epic. Rowen's transformation was a nice twist. Tanalasta's death came as a pretty big shock to me. We had this long arc of her transforming from a bookish, unconfident, easily-swayed girl into an iron-hard leader of men - only to perish right as she hit her stride. I suppose her sacrifice in the south was not dissimilar to her father's in the north, so a nice parallel there. I find myself a bit worried for the future of the Forest Country - they are so desperately depleted of soldiers and war-mages. How are they going to survive Sembian or Zhentish (or worse) incursions for the next several years until enough young men and women can come of age to replenish their armed forces? Alusair and Vangy certainly have their work cut out for them.

Up next is Lynn Abbey's The Nether Scroll.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 03 Feb 2017 :  16:43:54  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished The Nether Scroll a couple nights ago. I feel like I could copy/paste a lot of what I said about The Symbol's Gift into this post. Lynn Abbey is a terrific character builder. I know Elaine gets most of the acclaim for creating living, breathing, believable characters (and rightfully so), but Lynn does a wonderful job at this as well. Just a few chapters in and I feel like I intimately know them - their thoughts, emotions, motivations, and how they will react under certain circumstances. She appears to really like the adopted orphan theme, and non-traditional families in general, generating a lot of emotional drama from step-siblings/parents, and so on. It's easy to spot quite a few similarities between Ruari (The Brazen Gambit - Dark Sun), Ebroin (The Symbol's Gift), and now, Tiep - another troubled orphan boy.

The story itself was good. Not quite as excellent as her previous novel, but not far behind. I'd love to find out more about The Mantis Lady, and Weathercote Wood in general.


If I can tangent/ramble for a bit - finding out more about the goblins of Dekanter was a unique treat for me. About 5 years ago my interest in an old PC game was unexpectedly renewed. The game is called Heroes of Might and Magic III. It's a turn-based strategy where players control hero character across a map, gathering resources and building dwellings that attract various monster types - who can then be recruited to add to the hero's armies. It's a game that my friends and I spent countless hours playing in our 20s. After stumbling across it again in my mid/late 30s, I decided to use the map editor to build my own scenario - a recreation of the continent of Faerun, with several factions vying for dominance. While building this map I used an old FR 2e sourcebook for inspiration on locations I didn't know all that well. Around the mines of Dekanter I recall reading a tidbit about bigger, stronger, aggressive goblins, but no reasoning behind why they are different. In my map I plopped down a crystal mine (one of six gatherable resources) and guarded it with a stack of 200 goblins, with super beefed up stats and aggression level that would attack any hero, regardless of army strength.

Ok, sorry for the meaningless tangent, it was just fun to finally get the history behind this region. The beauty of the Forgotten Realms, at least for me, is that I never stop learning and unearthing new gems, even decades later. Up next is RAS's Servant of the Shard, which I started last night.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 09 Feb 2017 :  04:47:31  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished Servant of the Shard last night. Two RAS books in a row without a Drizzt appearance?!?!? Fans in 2000 must've been ready to storm the castle with pitchforks in hand. The evolution of Artemis Entreri is amusing to me. I've read somewhere that he was never intended to make it past The Halfling's Gem - a disposable villain. Well, now this soulless monster is starting to show a bit of a human side, a great many (if not all) of his murders-for-hire have been semi-justified (he only killed "scum" of the underworld, people who deserved it) and we even get a bit of a glimpse into some past event of great pain that made him so distrustful and distant. I never would've figured Enteri for a reclamation project, but it appears the author really digs this character and just wasn't ready to let him go.

The book was entertaining, crisp, and a good read. Some of the interactions between Artemis and Jarlaxle were excellent - very witty at times, and psychologically deep during others. Crenshinibon is destroyed! Well, if Marvel Comics has taught me anything, no villain (or hero for that matter) remains dead forever, so I'll reserve a dose of disbelief and keep an eye out for a future return of The Crystal Shard. It looks like the author is also done with the Calimport cast - Sharlotta is dead, and those poor wererats are down to their 4th string leader (Rassiter=dead, Domo=dead, Gord Abrix=dead). Berg'inyon Baenre is also feeding the worms, one more link to Menzoberranzan severed.

We also have another intersect with RAS's characters from The Cleric Quintet, whom I am mostly lukewarm with. Cadderly and the Bouldershoulder brothers are ok, but don't do much for me. I struggle to find anything to latch onto with Shayleigh - she's an elf that is devastatingly skilled with both the sword and bow (aren't they all?) and also incalculably, unearthly beautiful (again... do we ever read about an elf that isn't?). Vander the firbolg, one of my favorites of this crew, did not make an appearance. However, Danica - my actual favorite - had some interesting moments. Her instant and intense hatred for Entreri was thought-provoking. Did she, perhaps, see just a bit too much of herself in him? They are both "bottle-it-up" types, emotionally, who lose themselves in training - seeking utter perfection through machine-like dedication to their martial disciplines. Maybe Danica understands, on some level, that without finding love to ground her, she could've ended up just like Artemis. A "there but for the grace of god go I" scenario, that makes her want to erase this offense to her existence.

Or maybe RAS just wanted another adversary for his assassin to go up against, and a Kung-Fu fighting monk satisfied all the proper coolness prerequisites.

I like how Artemis and Jarlaxle just sort of wander off at the end, with no clear goal in mind, leaving me to wonder about what this pair of Odd Couple anti-heroes will get into next.

Speaking of next, my publishing order has Shadow's Witness next on the docket. After the excellent collection of novellas detailing the Uskevren clan discussed not too long ago, I'm eager to find out more about the mysterious Mr. Cale.
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CTrunks
Acolyte

Canada
20 Posts

Posted - 10 Feb 2017 :  11:40:51  Show Profile Send CTrunks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Honestly, for the longest time, Servant of the Shard was my favorite of the four books in the Paths of Darkness quartet (I was, admittedly, a bit hard on Spine of the World for a long while, until my last re-read), even though it tends to be removed due to the other Sellswords novels. I think a major part of it is because I liked seeing more of Entreri's "human" side, and how while he certainly wasn't good, he wasn't a complete and utter bastard. Plus, Entreri plays the straight man to Jarlaxle really well, which I think helps a great deal.

I think that if there is a weak point to the book, it's most of the stuff with the people from The Cleric Quintet. There was almost no need for the dwarf brothers - who I like - to be involved at all, and it felt like the only one who really did anything (even including Cadderly, who... seemed to be there just to get them to Hephaestus's lair and give a reason for why Kimmuriel dropped out of the fight) was Danica. I will admit that I understood why she looked at Artemis with such disdain; she doesn't like assassins (it's mentioned in Night Masks that her parents were both killed by the assassin band of the same name), and she's heard nothing but bad things about him from both Drizzt and Catti-Brie. In him, she saw the same kind of ruthless killer that took her family, and she only put up with him because she had no other choice at the time. As soon as she got him alone, she was ready to try and kill him, and only got stopped because of the arrival of Berg'inyon and his two soldiers.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2017 :  05:25:45  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CTrunks

I will admit that I understood why she looked at Artemis with such disdain; she doesn't like assassins (it's mentioned in Night Masks that her parents were both killed by the assassin band of the same name), and she's heard nothing but bad things about him from both Drizzt and Catti-Brie. In him, she saw the same kind of ruthless killer that took her family, and she only put up with him because she had no other choice at the time. As soon as she got him alone, she was ready to try and kill him, and only got stopped because of the arrival of Berg'inyon and his two soldiers.



D'oh! It was right there in front of me all along, and I missed it. I knew that Danica's parents were killed by assassins, of course, but that little detail appeared to slip my mind as I blundered through my pseudo-philosophical, armchair psychologist theory. I think your reasoning is much more sound. Occam's Razor, and all that...

Anyway, I finished Shadow's Witness the other night. Really good book. I wouldn't quite say excellent, but pretty damn close. There was some terrific, evocative writing, particularly in the layer of the Abyss that was charged with negative energy. I loved the descriptions of their souls slowly leeching out in little white wisps of "smoke" as the plane hungrily devoured them. Many years ago I ran a D&D campaign where the players ended up in the Negative Energy Plane, and I was able to (temporarily) strip away the buff that protected them from the ambient conditions. Had I read this book beforehand, I'd have been able to narrate that scene far more effectively.

I enjoyed all the characters in this story, maybe Jak Fleet even more than Cale himself. Riven seems to have some potential, I just hope he doesn't end up to reminiscent of Artemis Enteri. Speaking of him, I hope Kemp gets to build up a larger stable of interconnected characters, in the same manner that RAS and Elaine Cunningham have. It looks like I'll have to wait a little while, as the Cale trilogy starts in 2003, and I'm still working on 2000.

Up next, I've already started City of Ravens, which I'm heartily enjoying thus far - even if it is weirding me out to read back-to-back books with diminutive rogues of the same name (Jak Fleet the Halfling thief/priest, and now Jack Ravenwild the mage/thief.)
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 20 Feb 2017 :  22:54:11  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Loved Servant of the Shard..mostly because it introduced much more of Kimmuriel and set him up to take over for Jarlaxle in terms of leading BD. From that book on I was hooked for Kimmuriel. I almost wish he and Cadderly had it out, but Kim is way too interested in self preservation to risk a fight.

City of Ravens is fun! I enjoy Jack Ravenwild as a character. He's a lovable scoundrel.
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Lamora
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  00:40:51  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Too bad how Salvatore took Kummuriel's character in the newer novels. I really enjoyed his banter with Jarlaxle plus his awesome abilities. Though, thinking back on it, even with his whole house dying it still doesn't make much sense to me that in a city of 20k drow, he is basically the only one with psionic powers. I chalk it up to Salvatore loving his special snowflakes.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  16:45:06  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lamora

Too bad how Salvatore took Kummuriel's character in the newer novels. I really enjoyed his banter with Jarlaxle plus his awesome abilities. Though, thinking back on it, even with his whole house dying it still doesn't make much sense to me that in a city of 20k drow, he is basically the only one with psionic powers. I chalk it up to Salvatore loving his special snowflakes.



I started to read your post and was terrified you were going to drop a major spoiler. Despite being 15+ years old, these books (other than 1987 up to ~1994) are new to me. But, other than a minor hint that something in the way Kimmuriel is written, you showed restraint and didn't ruin anything down the line for me, and I thank you for that :)

As to your comment: I've always viewed "classed" characters as the rarity in any society. Despite many Realms authors' predilection for making every Average Joe a 5th level something-or-other, I tend to think of the overwhelming majority of NPCs as 0-level types. Guards and militiamen maybe get enough training to become 1st level fighters. The local temples, rather than being stocked full of divine casters, probably only have a few priests actually capable of channeling their deity's energy, while the rest are just laymen who perform administrative and other duties. Wizards might have apprentices who aren't even level 1 yet, still struggling with their first cantrips. The local thieves guild might employ a few street waifs that are 0-level peasants with a point or two in pickpocketing, but not actually level 1 rogues (NOT ROUGES) - so no extra backstab damage, ability to disarm traps, etc. They just aren't there yet.

I view anyone who makes it to level 5 in their chosen profession to be exceptional types, and those who make it to 9th (name) level as the rockstars, pro-athletes, Hollywood actor equivalents of their world. If 1 in 1000 people have the inherent talent to even muster up the casting of a cantrip, and only 1 out of those 1000 have the "it factor" to accumulate significant levels, these "special snowflakes" really do become more unique. I realize my vision of fantasy worlds is a 180 from Greenwood's Realms, but I just can't see so many people having such elite skill.

Ok, so where was I going with all that? Oh yeah, House Oblodra and their ultra-rare psionic skill. I tend to think of psionics as the snowflake among snowflakes. If arcane/divine casters are hard to come by, psions are the proverbial needle in the haystack. At least those other two classes have tons and tons of mentors to aid in unlocking latent talent - you can't walk 50 feet in Faerun without tripping over a temple or wizard tower. But how many schools of psionics are there? Maybe a handful? So unless you're a wildtalent prodigy of some sort, you might go your whole life without even realizing you have latent psionic potential. I'm ok with House Oblodra monopolizing psionics (until their destruction) in a city of 20k drow. Everyone else is so Lolth obsessed, they probably view their divine might as being superior to those weirdo mind-freaks anyway. And it's not like there's a great spirit of cooperation in Menzoberranzan. Is Oblodra really going to take in wards from other houses to teach them in their ways? Even an exorbitant fee wouldn't be enough to outmatch the strategic value of having a skill nobody else in your society possesses.

I'm a little surprised though, that houses with enormous resources (Baenre, of course) doesn't hire illithids to test their young nobles for psionic potential and then help bring it to the fore. Even if they only found 1 or 2, it's an advantage that shouldn't be overlooked.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 21 Feb 2017 :  17:15:14  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

City of Ravens is fun! I enjoy Jack Ravenwild as a character. He's a lovable scoundrel.



I finished City of Ravens last night. Anyone who's followed this thread has probably read my anti-Grubb rants and knows I'm one who prefers dark, gritty, grim fare in my fantasy novels. I don't particularly enjoy the light-hearted swashbuckling vibe. I also have a hard time getting on board with a rogue for a main protagonist, as I loathe societal parasites that leech off the hard work of others.

Then I read City of Ravens...

This book completely made me go against my usual nature. As Seravin said, it was just plain fun! I wanted to dislike it, I wanted to HATE Jack Ravenwild and hope for his capture and hanging/beheading. But he was so witty and amusing, I just couldn't help but be massively entertained by his antics. I even liked the rest of his mangy crew - Anders, Tharzon, Ontrides - all flawed, funny, quirky, but interesting characters. There was so much going on in this book - 3 separate plotlines all firing off simultaneously - it was a dizzying, wild ride.

The city itself was so thoroughly detailed. At first I didn't understand why he was so exhaustive in his detail when describing specific streets and landmarks Jack was running down. I had heard of the "Living Campaign" before but never really looked into what it is until just now. Wow, what an amazing concept - it's like a huge MMORPG before the online video game age was a thing. I had never gamed much outside of my own insular group, so the thought of tournaments with 1,000s of players and a Living City, where even Bob the Tanner and Joline the Seamstress are statted out is just, frankly, mind-blowing to me.

Anyway, this book was incredibly fun (I just read in a Pet Peeves thread where Wooley expressed his ire at the name of Jack Ravenswild, so maybe he'll be along soon to offer counterpoint). If I had to add a nitpick of my own, it would be that the witty banter was utilized by pretty much every character. When each and every player is equally glib with the brilliant dialogue, it makes it so ubiquitous as to lose some of its special quality. But that's a minor gripe at most and wasn't enough to seriously detract from the entertainment value of this story.

Up next I begin the 2001 novels:

The Summoning <-- starting here
The Floodgate
The Shattered Mask
Elminster in Hell
Temple Hill
Baldurs Gate II: Throne of Bhaal
Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor
Sea of Swords
Black Wolf
The Siege
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Lamora
Seeker

USA
81 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2017 :  01:09:18  Show Profile Send Lamora a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You finally start the Shade books... I personally started reading in the 3e era, so those were some of the first books I read in the Realms (not including all the Salvatore books out by that point since I got into the Realms through him). I really enjoyed them though I have seen many others on this forum express disgust with the series and Shade's inclusion.

Also Floodgate is a really good novel. I don't think I have read any of the other novels on that list though. Have fun with it.
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 22 Feb 2017 :  18:24:37  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There's a follow up to City of Ravens that is ebook only...Prince of Ravens set after the time skip/spell plague. It's as good as the first book, although a bit grittier (esp the beginning!). Make sure you pick it up.
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VikingLegion
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USA
483 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2017 :  17:43:52  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

There's a follow up to City of Ravens that is ebook only...Prince of Ravens set after the time skip/spell plague. It's as good as the first book, although a bit grittier (esp the beginning!). Make sure you pick it up.



Yes, it's on my master-list, but thanks for the heads-up. I'm not thrilled about some of the stories being ebook only, but there's no other option, so I guess I just have to deal with it.

I finished The Summoning a couple nights ago. This was a bit of an uneven experience. Denning has been running very hot-and-cold for me of late. It started off very impressive: intriguing plot, interesting characters, exceptional dialogue, etc. It took a bit of an immediate downturn once I realized phaerimm were involved. I have this irrational hatred of the phaerimm, going back to the ludicrously bad original illustration of them - I can't seem to find it online but I recall a picture of one that instantly made me think it was the lamest creature ever created for D&D (and in a multiverse with flumphs and froghemoths, that's really saying something). It was a black and white drawing with the traditional windsock design, and four completely human arms grafted onto the front/mouth area. It represents everything that is dumb about monster designing. I've since seen some extremely good illustrations of this creature, but it's hard to shake first impressions.

Also, the inclusion of Malik felt completely unnecessary and distracting. I get that authors become attached to their own creations and want to continue to utilize them, but in this instance it just didn't fit. There were also some pretty heavy-handed "We're in a new edition and have some new game mechanics to explain in-universe" expository moments as well, but I realize why they had to be there and tried to give them a pass.

That aside, the writing was mostly good, making this book solid overall. It was super fun to see the almighty Elminster actually a bit confounded by Melegaunt. I'm somewhat intrigued by the impending coming of Shade, though this is tempered to lukewarm interest in light of yet another RSE so quickly after the last one. I'll just have to wait and see how it plays out.

I'm about 90 pages into The Floodgate at the moment.

Edited by - VikingLegion on 03 Mar 2017 17:46:08
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2017 :  21:13:25  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, the Phaerimm have that effect on me too. They actually remind me of the giant version of a kind of protozoa...

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  05:22:13  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished The Floodgate yesterday. I feel like I could mostly re-paste my commentary from the first book of this series. Halruaa really comes to life under Elaine's pen. Not to pick on Murder in Halruaa too hard, but it just didn't make this totally unique land really stand out the way it could/should have. Two books into the Counselors and Kings series and it has become one of the most intriguing regions in all of FR for me. She weaves a very complex and intricate plot, it's not hard to get lost if you aren't really paying attention.

I'm really enjoying Matteo's continuing disenchantment with the jordaini order. I like seeing his once unshakable faith slowly erode as the layers peel back and more corruption/ politicking is revealed. I'm also quite fond of the effect Tzigone has on him; opening him up just slightly to a more fun side that can see shades of grey instead of nothing but absolutes. He's like a Vulcan that is just starting to grasp humor, still at the "Knock, knock" stage.

About the only thing I'm having a really hard time with is Andris' continuing loyalty to Kiva. I get that he feels stuck with her to further his own goals, but geez, at what point does he say enough is enough? How many more atrocities does she have to commit right in front of his face? Here's my paraphrased version of some of the events:

Andris: Hey! We were supposed to only subdue those humans at the Lady's Mirror, why were you using lethal force?
Kiva: Needed to for the mission, you understand.
Andris: Well... ok, but one more outburst like that and I'll....
Kiva:[rips wings off of Undine and absorbs its life-force]
Andris: Dude... WTF?!?!?!
Kiva: Had to do it, you know, for the mission.
Andris: *sigh* alright, but no more of that, ok?
Kiva: Go kill all those elves who have been working with us for weeks, I don't want them around anymore
Andris: No way, not only have they done nothing wrong, they've been our allies, we've broke bread with them, they've already taken us back once after we wronged them before. Oh, and also I have a tiny bit of elf blood in me and feel a sort of odd kinship for...
Kiva: **ZORP** [magic spell instantly turns 30 elves into dessicated husks]
Andris: Seriously? If you do one more
Kiva: You'll what? Lecture me again?

I'm really hoping Andris steps up in the 3rd book, he's been a huge disappointment for me. Actually I can't recall what happened to him at the end of this one, I sort of last track of him during the Crinti/Mulhorandi invasion and all the madness that ensued. I might have to go back and re-read the last couple chapters before I begin book 3. But that's not for a little while at least anyway, up next in my reading order is a return to the Uskevren clan in The Shattered Mask.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3802 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2017 :  05:27:31  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Halruaa's one of my favourite FR regions too, Elaine's books set there only made me enjoy it more.

Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 11 Mar 2017 :  06:43:11  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished The Shattered Mask tonight and was very impressed throughout. I've liked just about all of the Uskevren material I've read thus far, whether it's from Kemp, Byers, or any of the authors that contributed to the Halls collection. This has been the best of the bunch. I'm somewhat new to Byers, I'm deeply impressed by his knowledge - he keeps forcing me to go to the internet for everything from clothing styles, to architecture, to fencing maneuvers. I see from his author blurb that he is a fencing enthusiast, not hard to see that coming through in his fight scenes.

The characters were very fascinating as well. Marance, while being the big, bad villain, had this sort of effete, almost gentlemanly quality to him that made for an interesting contrast. He could murder a man with his bare hands, but then wipe them off as though the act was too "icky" or unrefined for him to be involved with personally. He was a brutal puppetmaster, yet he never ranted and raved at his minions, nor bellowed the nearly ubiquitous "GET THEM!!" that almost every villain seems contractually obligated to say. His familiar, Bileworm, was massively entertaining as well. I loved when he pantomimed creeping around thief-like, even though he is a shadow creature that wouldn't make sound anyway - like a caricature of an actor overdoing it on stage. Bileworm perfectly walked that fine line between funny and over-the-top goofy.

This was a really good book overall, one of the better FR novels I've read in some time. So much so that it caused me to look up Byers' wiki page and I'm quite pleased to see I have a ton more of his material to read in my future. On that note, up next in the queue is Elminster in Hell.
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1265 Posts

Posted - 13 Mar 2017 :  01:24:12  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay...I know Ed's stuff is not your cup of tea. But I liked Elminster in Hell. It's like a Short Story collection as an excuse for Ed to talk about all his characters and share tales he has in his head...and the Simbul kicks some major butt in this book which I also enjoy.
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Thoth
Acolyte

Canada
31 Posts

Posted - 14 Mar 2017 :  13:55:11  Show Profile Send Thoth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will say that I have enjoyed this thread.

I have read (and still own) most of the FR novels, from the very beginning. DL as well, although that is another forum elsewhere. Heh.

This has been a fun ride through nostalgia for most of these. Thank you for taking the time to scribe your journey and share it with us!

Edited by - Thoth on 14 Mar 2017 13:55:55
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2017 :  05:34:29  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Thoth

I will say that I have enjoyed this thread.

I have read (and still own) most of the FR novels, from the very beginning. DL as well, although that is another forum elsewhere. Heh.

This has been a fun ride through nostalgia for most of these. Thank you for taking the time to scribe your journey and share it with us!



Hey thanks for the kind words. It's been a lot of fun going through each book. Yeah, sometimes there's no response and I just move on to the next, but other times it sparks a pretty good debate that can be both informative and entertaining.

Like you, I also have read all the Dragonlance books and did a similar thing over on another forum. When I joined they already had a thread going called "What DL book are you currently reading", so I just piggybacked off that and did something similar to what I'm doing here - through all ~160+ books in that line.

http://www.dragonlanceforums.com/showthread.php?3731-DL-Book-Currently-Reading

That's the link, I started in on page 315 with a large post that encompassed several books, before I started doing one post per book.
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe

USA
483 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2017 :  08:13:17  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You know how when a TV series has gone on for several seasons (~7+), eventually they do that one show that has like 2 minutes of original footage and the rest is just clips from previous years edited together?

quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Okay...I know Ed's stuff is not your cup of tea. But I liked Elminster in Hell. It's like a Short Story collection as an excuse for Ed to talk about all his characters and share tales he has in his head...and the Simbul kicks some major butt in this book which I also enjoy.


What you liked about this book is exactly what I did not. I've owned it for awhile now, but kept it on the back burner until I could read all the other FR books up to this point. So, over a length of time, I've looked at the excellent cover art and sort of created in my mind an expectation of what I thought (and wanted) this book to be. I envisioned it as this epic sort of journey of trial and redemption, wherein Elminster travels the various layers of Hell - like some kind of awesome D&D ode to Dante Alighieri's Inferno. I wanted Greenwood's magnum opus, a true masterpiece. Instead we got Elminster and Friends Greatest Hits.

Putting my own selfish expectations aside, this book had a lot of ups and downs:

- The worst vignette, by far, in my mind was the scene where Elminster enters a "Hall of Doom" area - some kind of council of big bads, including a lich, a drow, a beholder, a gargoyle with some kind of magic sword, and maybe a few others. The basic impression is that each one of these guys could be a mega-villain all by themselves, but banded together they would be nigh-unstoppable. Elminster strolls in, and not only destroys them all; he does it without casting a single spell, or even lifting a finger for that matter. The bad guys all start casting destructive spells at him, he simply smiles and then Mystra intervenes, doing a return to sender and obliterating the villains with their own spells. This one scene basically sums up 95% of everything I dislike about Elminster stories.

+ The Mirt/Piergeron/Piergeron's daughter (I can't remember her name) snippet was really interesting, probably the best among the various memories that weren't directly experienced by Elminster.

+ The Laeral (not Khelben's wife, the "other" Laerel) story was pretty neat, with the unfaithful apprentice who tries to murder his mentor and grab the throne for himself. Well done.

+/- The young mage who seeks to apprentice himself to Elminster and then attempts to fool him by sacrificing a duplicate of his magical staff - that was a good story. The Rathan and Torm snippet was just plain awful... ouch. Also, the vignette with the Sembian woman who runs a finishing school and her 4 ladies visiting Elminster's tower was just brutal.

- There is a scene where Storm and Sylune are reading an in-universe novel called "Heartsteel" - part of a series that comes out of Sembia. The sisters are laughing uproariously at the cheesiness of the tale. But what I found most funny is that when they read some actual passages from it, well... it reads quite a bit like a Greenwood story to me..... Not sure if this was a bit of self-deprecating humor from the author, or...?

+ the internal monologue of Elminster on page 280-281 was terrific, inspiring, even. For a shining moment, he dropped the tiresome snarkiness. It was equal parts wisdom, humility, resignation, and determination - the best writing of the entire 400+ page experience.

- a huge pet peeve of mine in many FR books (and something that drove me nuts in the Dragonlance line as well) is the lack of separation between arcane and divine magic. I view mages as something like medieval fantasy scientists. Arcane magic is a series of formulae and reactions that involve unlocking the proper combinations of somatic, verbal, and material components. Anyone can participate in it, provided they have the mental capability to memorize all the nuances, and the devotion to practice it enough to attain mastery. Wizardry, like Science, is a repeatable, demonstratable act, no begging or cajoling of a deity is needed. But here we have, in addition to Elminster's constant Mystra pleading, Halaster and the Simbul getting in on that act. Initially they both get their butts kicked in Hell. So what do they do? Return to Toril, curl up in the fetal position, and pray to Mystra for more power. She, of course, fully heals them, and then supercharges them to OVER 9,000!!! to go back to Hell and rescue her most precious servant. C'mon, man... that is straight up cleric territory.

- I didn't much care for Nergal's characterization. Demons are supposed to be the chaotic 'roid-ragers. Devils should be smoother, slicker, more in-control plotters and schemers. Nergal read as a classic demon, a Balor on a rampage. There was even a specific entry that mentioned his bull-in-a-china shop journey through El's mind - leaving nothing but "chaos" in his wake. Nope, a devil would never be so haphazard and non-systematic. While we're talking about Nergal, those interactions between the memories basically boiled down to the exact same thing - Nergal chastising Elminster for not showing him memories of any value (i.e. leading to mastery of magic), El responding back with some kind of witty, smartass remark, Nergal smashing him down with a mental bolt, whip, or lash, and then the hollow threat of "YOU TRY MY PATIENCE, MORTAL!! THE NEXT MEMORY YOU SHOW ME HAD BEST BE OF SOME USE OR I SHALL DESTROY YOU UTTERLY!! The frequency of these interludes could've been reduced dramatically, and the book would not have been the worse for it.

+ I really liked how Elminster eventually subverted Nergal. It was subtly done, and even though he hinted throughout the novel how he was injecting some humanity into the devil, it was still fun to see when all the suffering and hard work finally came to fruition. I loved that scene near the end where the Simbul and Nergal are spell-dueling, and Elminster keeps influencing Nergal to misfire or get confused as to what he wants to do to her. Really cool stuff. I would've preferred the book to end there, or with a very short epilogue, on a high note; rather than the anti-climactic free-for-all in the Simbul's throne room.

So, after all that, I don't know where I stand with this book. It certainly wasn't what I hoped and wanted it to be. A few of the random stories were excellent, a few of them were painful, most fell somewhere in between. I felt like Ed just wanted to spin some random lore, like maybe he had a bunch of bits and pieces hanging around that he wanted to put in a monthly Dragon article or something, but didn't make the cut. It was a strange book with lots of highs and lows, I suppose they more-or-less negated each other out and made for an average read.

Up next is Temple Hill. I've not read anything from this author yet, and the cover art looks kind of goofy, so I'm approaching this with a little trepidation, but trying to keep an open mind.

Edited by - VikingLegion on 19 Mar 2020 19:52:10
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
36779 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2017 :  15:19:33  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The thing that bothered me most about Elminster in Hell was the way Elminster would somehow contact people by simply remembering them. And as I recall, at least once in the book (I've not read it in a while), one of these remembered people realized that this sudden recollection they were experiencing meant Elminster was in trouble.

If there was any mechanism used for how this contact was established, I missed it. And thus, the story did not work because a large part of it relied on something that simply did not make sense.

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