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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2269 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2016 :  14:51:41  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've often wished I could do an expanded "director's cut" edition of EVERMEET that would spend more time on the battle, its build-up, and its aftermath. These are all good questions, and they should have had better answers.

Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 14 Sep 2016 16:22:37
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BenN
Learned Scribe

Japan
338 Posts

Posted - 13 Sep 2016 :  15:23:01  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

I've often wished I could do an expanded "director's cut" edition of EVERMEET that would spend more time on the battle, its build-up, and its aftermath.


That would be awesome!
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  19:05:35  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Aw Elaine, that's very nice of you to come here and reply to an old curmudgeon like me :) If you're able to shed any light here without breaking some NDA or whatever secrecy you're supposed to keep about a decades old novel, would be great.

On the subject, why did the Harpers or the elves not kill Kymil Nimesin after the Harper Assassin trial that occured in Elfshadow? Let's look at his actions? Accessory to regicide, conspiring to kill the elf royalty in Evermeet, and the direct murder of ~20 Harpers. Contrast this with Finder Wyvernspur: he created Flattery, who due to his abuse killed one apprentice. Another apprentice killed herself because she was traumatized by the events. For this INDIRECT murder - Finder's name was wiped from all the Realms and he was banished for eternity to another plane in solitary confinement. Compared to Finder - Kymil's punishment was ridiculously light. And if the Harpers didn't kill him, why wouldn't the elves? His crimes against their royalty are something that would have them killed in almost any culture that didn't ban capital punishment. ALso - keeping Kymil alive so he could testify in a trial so Arylin didn't go to Harper jail seems a bit ridiculous given Danilo, Bran and Khelben would have said she was innocent. I'm pretty sure Bran and Khelben could reason with any Harper judges. Keeping Kymil alive has always struck me as contrivance.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
30212 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  19:36:05  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would say their punishments were similar. Both were basically imprisoned on another plane for the rest of time, and both were sent away knowing that their ultimate goal had failed. Finder wanted to be remembered forever -- so they took away and wiped out his name. Kymil wanted to see the royal family thrown down -- and he was imprisoned knowing he'd failed and that he'd never be able to attack them again.

Of course, in both cases, someone powerful and not from the Prime came along and made a mess of the Harpers's plans.... Maybe the Harpers need to rethink how they permanently imprison folks.

As for why the Harpers imprisoned Kymil instead of the elves... He killed more Harpers than royal elves, and I'd imagine the elves were simply glad to wash their hands of the distasteful business of elf killing elf. Also, they'd've had to put him on trial, which would have drawn more attention to him and his cause.

Of course, this is my thinking. Elaine may come along momentarily and say it's all osquip droppings, and give another set of reasons entirely.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Sep 2016 19:37:09
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  20:31:00  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
1) Killing the king of the elves and a princess and plotting to kill the rest is arguably a greater crime than 20 harpers. 2) The harpers *do* use capital punishment against renegades. I get that imprisonment was the right choice over killing him for Finder as he was indirectly repsonsible for the deaths. For Kymil, his crimes warranted death. A lot more than other renegade Harpers who were sentenced to death just because they gave up their harper pin? (see Curse of the Shadowmage, for example)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30212 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  20:38:42  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

(see Curse of the Shadowmage, for example)



Sorry, I'm not going to inflict that pain on myself.

...Though killing someone over giving away a pin seems way out of character for the Harpers.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Sep 2016 20:39:44
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  20:42:39  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Haha bad Wooly - but yes, when Mari gives up the Harper pin they send someone to track and kill her...who evidently does this for a living. I believe he was a half-drow ranger? I'd have to dig it out. And Bran's job before the events of Elfshadow was to track down/hunt (and presumably kill in some cases) renegade Harpers. I don't think Harpers are against killing bad guys like Zhents or Cult agents, why would they be against killing a bad guy like Kymil who is arguably more evil than a regular Zhent or mercenary?

*edit* yes, from "Code of the Harpers" - "The Harpers police their own. A Harper who hears the call of personal power can no longer hear the sweet song of the Harp. A Harper who siezes power and holds it above all else, is a traitor to the Harp. Traitors must die, for freedom to live.

This is a warning: the Harpers kill traitors in their midst.
"

So yes, Harper protocol is to kill traitors. It makes zero sense that they imprisoned someone like Kymil who has probably the MOST crimes against Harpers and the elf people. I smell contrivance until proven otherwise :)

Edited by - Seravin on 14 Sep 2016 21:04:15
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30212 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  21:22:30  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

Haha bad Wooly - but yes, when Mari gives up the Harper pin they send someone to track and kill her...who evidently does this for a living. I believe he was a half-drow ranger? I'd have to dig it out. And Bran's job before the events of Elfshadow was to track down/hunt (and presumably kill in some cases) renegade Harpers. I don't think Harpers are against killing bad guys like Zhents or Cult agents, why would they be against killing a bad guy like Kymil who is arguably more evil than a regular Zhent or mercenary?

*edit* yes, from "Code of the Harpers" - "The Harpers police their own. A Harper who hears the call of personal power can no longer hear the sweet song of the Harp. A Harper who siezes power and holds it above all else, is a traitor to the Harp. Traitors must die, for freedom to live.

This is a warning: the Harpers kill traitors in their midst.
"

So yes, Harper protocol is to kill traitors. It makes zero sense that they imprisoned someone like Kymil who has probably the MOST crimes against Harpers and the elf people. I smell contrivance until proven otherwise :)




Giving away your pin does not make you a traitor. Bran Skorlsun gave away his, and it was considered a good thing.

And was Kymil actually a Harper?

Another possibility is that leaving him alive meant he could be interrogated in the future, if needs be, or that any contingencies he had set to go off on his death would not go off.

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 14 Sep 2016 :  21:41:18  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry, by "gives up the pin" I didn't mean giving away your pin to another - I meant renouncing your membership in the Harpers and aborting your mission. That's what Mari did and seemed to know the consequences was death--which ties into the Code of the Harper book.

For Kymil being a Harper - Kymil gave Arilyn her Harper missions and knew the names of all the Harpers...if he wasn't considered a Harper but was allowed to assign Harper missions to "Harper Agents" like Arilyn, and knew all the identities of the "secret" group that seems absurd. They also tried him in a Harper Tribunal--which would be reserved for trials of Harpers...so I am going to say he was at LEAST a de facto Harper.

He wasn't a powerful enough mage to have contingency spells by game stats, and even if he were, Khelben Arunsun would have been strong enough to deal with those and was personally involved. Also this is a world where speak with dead spells are available, so keeping him alive to ask him questions seems illogical. And keep in mind, he's killed 20 Harpers and was involved with regicide, and the Harpers send people to kill people who simply abandon their cause.

Edited by - Seravin on 14 Sep 2016 21:43:03
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2016 :  02:29:06  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

But no one tried to stop him, and the elves were completely unaware until the dragon spotted the ships that ANYTHING was happening. An army being mobilized and built up with a huge navy like that would NOT BE A SECRET from anyone; and also the whole thing with Lolth getting him out in the first place and helping him with all this. Why did the Harpers not rally to stop him? How many evil gold elves could there possibly be who would be willing to destroy their own homeland? It stretches my mind to think there would be more than a dozen or two at most given that this is totally against their nature and very nihilistic. Still not buying it.



I agree it stretches credibility, but on the other hand, never underestimate the power of racial "superiority" complex. I would venture that not a single of those gold elf seditionists would describe themselves as evil. They almost undoubtedly believe they are going to restore order to Evermeet and bring about a "golden age" (pardon the pun) by putting those most capable (gold elves) in their rightful position of rulership. I'm certain they view themselves as heroic liberators, not evil invaders.

As for not killing Nimesin - maybe the Harpers believed an execution would turn him into a martyr, a figurehead to hasten the cause of the separatist gold elves and maybe even help them with recruiting. As for his escape, it's not like some Harper guard dozed off in his chair with the key ring within Kymil's reach. Lolth and Ghaunadar working together is going to be more powerful than any mortal attempt to counter. Why didn't the goodly gods intervene? Like I said in my previous post, the defender is usually reactive to the attacker. Or maybe they just got confused as to who's turn it was to watch Nimesin's pocket jail plane that week.
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CTrunks
Seeker

Canada
16 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2016 :  02:46:45  Show Profile Send CTrunks a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had always assumed that before Lolth helped Kymil escape, she subtly had her minions working with those who were still loyal to him or sympathetic to his cause (in disguise) to make sure everything was ready, and then as soon as they busted him out, they were immediately on the road to Viridian Ci- err, setting sail for Evermeet.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author

2269 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2016 :  13:41:29  Show Profile  Visit ElaineCunningham's Homepage Send ElaineCunningham a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Harpers have been known to make mistakes. Had they the benefit of hindsight when Kymil was sentenced, they would have killed him twice, cremated him, sent his ashes to that pocket dimension, and then magically nuked said dimension from space, just to be sure.
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2016 :  16:04:40  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Is that an LV-426 reference? :)
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Brimstone
Great Reader

USA
2905 Posts

Posted - 15 Sep 2016 :  18:31:47  Show Profile Send Brimstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like it...

"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 16 Sep 2016 :  14:51:40  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham

Harpers have been known to make mistakes. Had they the benefit of hindsight when Kymil was sentenced, they would have killed him twice, cremated him, sent his ashes to that pocket dimension, and then magically nuked said dimension from space, just to be sure.




And danced about on his grave too! Thanks Elaine!
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 22 Sep 2016 :  18:56:46  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished Realms of Mystery several days ago. I think, of all the anthologies thus far, this one was the most "baseline". I do like unpredictable plot twists, so an entire collection of stories revolving around "big reveals" was interesting.

Speaking With the Dead (Elaine C.) was a good yarn where we see maybe just a tiny bit of a budding friendship between Craulnober and Dan starting to form. Or maybe he just wants to murder him *slightly* less. Hey, that's a start.

A Walk in the Snow (Dave Gross) I felt was the most clever of the lot. A mage dies with no apparent physical cause, until it is revealed the strain of his familiar being killed is what did him in.

The Rose Window (Monte Cook) was more horror than murder mystery. I thought this was the most predictable, as the journal of course would cut off just before he enters the portal. Very much in the style of "found footage" movies like the Blair Witch Project and so on.

The Club Rules (James Lowder) is a classic "wrongly framed for murder" tale in which a younger Artus Cimber (pre Ring of Winter) must exonerate the demonic looking butler of the Adventurer's Club. Fairly predictable, but still enjoyable nonetheless.

Thieves' Justice (Mary Herbert) there have been several installments now of Teza the horse thief, and I can't say she does much for me as a character. However I really dig Herbert's portrayal of Rashemen and its sort of Gaelic mythology vibe - with aughiskies and selkies and such. I'm quite partial to this region of Faerun so there's always something for me to mine from these stories.

Ekhar Lorrent: Gnome Detective (Stan!) uggh, a gnome detective that only speaks in rhymes. The thing is, the story itself was fairly decent, maybe even one of them more clever offerings in the book. But that Ekhar...

The Devil and Tertius Wands (Jeff Grubb) ouch, two goofy stories back to back. Actually, maybe it was better like that, to get them out of the way and then cleanse the palette. Here are just a few of the "Grubbisms" from this gem:

- A bad guy with the name "Big Ugly"
- A reference to "riding crossbow" on the carriage. Hahaha, get it, like riding shotgun....
- An actual quote: "Had I been thinking about my mystoricals I could have toughed it out, thought of some glib explanation, but in truth I had been wowsered by the beauty of the box." Really? "Wowsered" was the best verb he could come up with to show being impressed with something?
- a bit of meta humor with the main character donning the illusion of a drow and naming himself Ziixxxita (because drow have lots of Z's and X's in their names) and completing the image with twin curved swords...

Just more silly anachronisms, groan-worthy puns, and general goofiness. I suppose it shouldn't surprise me anymore.

H (Richard Lee Byers) was a really creepy tale of an adventuring party being picked off one-by-one by a shapeshifting invader. Great horror vibe and an exciting story all around.

Strange Bedfellows (Keith Francis Strohm) was an ok story about a retired Purple Dragon dealing with treachery. It didn't stand out to me as particularly good or bad.

Whence the Song of Steel (J. Robert King) writes about a sentient singing sword and its desire to return to glory and be rid of mediocre thespians that use it to achieve fame. A fairly clever story, and something different from the norm.

An Unusual Suspect (Brian M Thomsen) I've been super critical of this author and his horrible Once Around the Realms and other stories. But his last two, about the amnesiac guy who serves the Lords of Waterdeep in clandestine missions, haven't been too bad.

Darkly, Through a Glass of Ale (Peter Archer) - I'm glad I recently read the Diamond saga, or I wouldn't have had any clue what was going on in this story. A decent tale, but not memorable.

Lynaelle (Thomas M. Reid) - pretty good story of a young apprentice trying to prove her innocence in the death of her master. One of the better shorts in this collection.

The Grinning Ghost of Taverton Hall (Greenwood) - so many character names, I'll confess it was hard for me to follow. Plus it was late at night and I just wanted to finish the anthology. It had a few bits of dialogue that were quite funny, but overall it was just an average story.

I've since started in on Elaine Cunningham's Thornhold and am about halfway through. I plan to finish it up in the next 2-3 days.

Edited by - VikingLegion on 22 Sep 2016 18:59:06
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2016 :  17:00:00  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I finished Thornhold over the weekend. A good book, not Elaine's best, but still very solid. I like Bronwyn quite a bit (despite her red oak leaf tramp stamp :P) In fact, I find her to be much more compelling than Arilyn Moonblade as a main protagonist. Dag Zoreth and Cara Doon were both interesting characters, I'm particularly curious as to what Cara has in store in her future.

I think Algorind the paladin got a bit of a raw deal. He's young, impressionable, and a bit gullible. He's just trying to do his duty as best he can, but he gets vilified as an absolute monster by the end of the story.

I also had a bit of a problem with Sir Gareth, and fallen paladins in general. How does his fall from grace go undiscovered for so many years when he's active in his order? Ok, so maybe it would be considered "rude" for a fellow paladin to use his aura sight on a companion, especially one who has held a position of high esteem for so many years, but you have to figure at some point it would come to light - maybe an accident in the training yard exposes his inability to perform a curative spell, I don't know... something. And as for Gareth himself, how delusional does he have to be to not realize he's given himself over to an evil cause? He hasn't communed with his god in years, he has not been graced with the ability to cast spells. But the book seems to describe him as a man who doesn't really think of himself as a "bad guy". I guess he's just completely warped in the head and has an amazing ability to twist and self-rationalize everything.

A good story overall though. I wonder if the Fenrisbane will make any future appearances. I've since started in on The Shadow Stone, which, by my count, is the 47th novel in the Forgotten Realms line with the word shadow in the title.
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Sunderstone
Seeker

52 Posts

Posted - 27 Sep 2016 :  18:18:46  Show Profile Send Sunderstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

I finished Thornhold over the weekend. A good book, not Elaine's best, but still very solid. I like Bronwyn quite a bit (despite her red oak leaf tramp stamp :P) In fact, I find her to be much more compelling than Arilyn Moonblade as a main protagonist. Dag Zoreth and Cara Doon were both interesting characters, I'm particularly curious as to what Cara has in store in her future.

I think Algorind the paladin got a bit of a raw deal. He's young, impressionable, and a bit gullible. He's just trying to do his duty as best he can, but he gets vilified as an absolute monster by the end of the story.

I also had a bit of a problem with Sir Gareth, and fallen paladins in general. How does his fall from grace go undiscovered for so many years when he's active in his order? Ok, so maybe it would be considered "rude" for a fellow paladin to use his aura sight on a companion, especially one who has held a position of high esteem for so many years, but you have to figure at some point it would come to light - maybe an accident in the training yard exposes his inability to perform a curative spell, I don't know... something. And as for Gareth himself, how delusional does he have to be to not realize he's given himself over to an evil cause? He hasn't communed with his god in years, he has not been graced with the ability to cast spells. But the book seems to describe him as a man who doesn't really think of himself as a "bad guy". I guess he's just completely warped in the head and has an amazing ability to twist and self-rationalize everything.

A good story overall though. I wonder if the Fenrisbane will make any future appearances. I've since started in on The Shadow Stone, which, by my count, is the 47th novel in the Forgotten Realms line with the word shadow in the title.



I liked the novel very much but I had a few gripes. Piergeiron's characterization seemed off. In every other book he appears, he seems far less calculating and for more ready to see the good in an individual, than the bad. Much as he did with Mrelder in City of Splendors. He seemed to easily swayed by Sir Gareth's proclamations on Bronwyn, Danillo Thann, and Alice Tinker.

I agree with you about Bronwyn, I like her more than Arilyn and enjoyed her small roll in Dream Spheres as well. Ebenezer and the Stoneshaft dwarves seemed a little caricatured for my taste.

I had the same general feeling about Algorind that you expressed until reading Elaine's short story The Knights of Samular. He had a redemptive arc in the story and was less two dimensional. He actually displayed some of the wisdom one would come to expect from a paladin.

There was supposed to be a follow on book called Reclamation but I believe Elaine was unable to finish it and then 4thed and the 100 year jump in time took place. Some of the issues that seemed unfinished or unresolved would have tied up in that book.

Edited by - Sunderstone on 27 Sep 2016 18:27:24
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30212 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2016 :  03:00:22  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Sunderstone



I liked the novel very much but I had a few gripes. Piergeiron's characterization seemed off. In every other book he appears, he seems far less calculating and for more ready to see the good in an individual, than the bad. Much as he did with Mrelder in City of Splendors. He seemed to easily swayed by Sir Gareth's proclamations on Bronwyn, Danillo Thann, and Alice Tinker.


Keep in mind that Gareth was able to live among paladins without them realizing he'd turned to evil. When a trusted paladin speaks with another paladin, of course the former's word will carry more weight with the latter.

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Madpig
Learned Scribe

Finland
124 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2016 :  06:49:29  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just thought one thing up: Do you guys recall any magic used by rangers or paladins in novels? My memory seems to be bit fuzzy, but I think about every spellcasting is done by people with lvls on wiz or cleric. This observation does not apply on any novel in particular, but in general.
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Seravin
Senior Scribe

Canada
792 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2016 :  15:33:34  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Rangers don't seem to know how to cast ranger spells in the novels (Drizzt briefly used drow innate abilities from memory like faerie fire and darkness but I don't remember him doing that in ages in the books)--they just track well and like animals and forests; and Paladins only seem able to use their healing abilities; detect good/evil; and wield holy avengers--not cast divine spells that I can remember.
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VikingLegion
Learned Scribe

USA
272 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2016 :  16:05:40  Show Profile Send VikingLegion a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That's a really good point. I guess Rangers and Paladins are 3/4 warriors and 1/4 casters, so their spells just aren't a big enough portion of their overall character to make a big story impact. However, we often read that a paladin will begin humming a song to Tyr as he enters battle - I interpret that as casting a Bless or Aid spell on himself and his companions, as it seems to inspire them to fight a bit better.

Also, I know there was a Drizzt moment when he and his companions were stuck out on an ice floe and he lost his panther statue deep in the ocean. He summoned a seal and then trained it to fetch for him. The training portion, over the course of several days, was just excellent ranger craft/animal handling, but I dimly recall him praying to Mielikki initially to bring the seal to him. I guess that could be interpreted as casting an Animal Summoning or Friendship spell, no? I'd have to re-read the chapter again (I don't even recall which book it was in) to get a feel for if any casting/divine energy was going on or not.

Overall you are right though. The casting aspects of these two classes is almost entirely ignored, other than a paladin's lay on hands and ability to detect evil.
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe

508 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2016 :  17:33:35  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

I also had a bit of a problem with Sir Gareth, and fallen paladins in general. How does his fall from grace go undiscovered for so many years when he's active in his order? Ok, so maybe it would be considered "rude" for a fellow paladin to use his aura sight on a companion, especially one who has held a position of high esteem for so many years, but you have to figure at some point it would come to light - maybe an accident in the training yard exposes his inability to perform a curative spell, I don't know... something. And as for Gareth himself, how delusional does he have to be to not realize he's given himself over to an evil cause? He hasn't communed with his god in years, he has not been graced with the ability to cast spells. But the book seems to describe him as a man who doesn't really think of himself as a "bad guy". I guess he's just completely warped in the head and has an amazing ability to twist and self-rationalize everything.
Has been years since I read this novel, but wasn't he shielded by Cyric? I am pretty sure that Cyric has replaced Tyr as his patron and was actively shielding him, although I don't remember whether he knew it and was actively trying to deceive his order in Cyric's service or if Cyric deceived even him and used him as unwitting pawn
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Sunderstone
Seeker

52 Posts

Posted - 28 Sep 2016 :  18:32:57  Show Profile Send Sunderstone a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

I also had a bit of a problem with Sir Gareth, and fallen paladins in general. How does his fall from grace go undiscovered for so many years when he's active in his order? Ok, so maybe it would be considered "rude" for a fellow paladin to use his aura sight on a companion, especially one who has held a position of high esteem for so many years, but you have to figure at some point it would come to light - maybe an accident in the training yard exposes his inability to perform a curative spell, I don't know... something. And as for Gareth himself, how delusional does he have to be to not realize he's given himself over to an evil cause? He hasn't communed with his god in years, he has not been graced with the ability to cast spells. But the book seems to describe him as a man who doesn't really think of himself as a "bad guy". I guess he's just completely warped in the head and has an amazing ability to twist and self-rationalize everything.
Has been years since I read this novel, but wasn't he shielded by Cyric? I am pretty sure that Cyric has replaced Tyr as his patron and was actively shielding him, although I don't remember whether he knew it and was actively trying to deceive his order in Cyric's service or if Cyric deceived even him and used him as unwitting pawn



It's been a while for me as well but I think I remember something along those lines.

Edited by - Sunderstone on 28 Sep 2016 18:33:24
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Madpig
Learned Scribe

Finland
124 Posts

Posted - 29 Sep 2016 :  06:25:46  Show Profile Send Madpig a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion

That's a really good point. I guess Rangers and Paladins are 3/4 warriors and 1/4 casters, so their spells just aren't a big enough portion of their overall character to make a big story impact. However, we often read that a paladin will begin humming a song to Tyr as he enters battle - I interpret that as casting a Bless or Aid spell on himself and his companions, as it seems to inspire them to fight a bit better.

Also, I know there was a Drizzt moment when he and his companions were stuck out on an ice floe and he lost his panther statue deep in the ocean. He summoned a seal and then trained it to fetch for him. The training portion, over the course of several days, was just excellent ranger craft/animal handling, but I dimly recall him praying to Mielikki initially to bring the seal to him. I guess that could be interpreted as casting an Animal Summoning or Friendship spell, no? I'd have to re-read the chapter again (I don't even recall which book it was in) to get a feel for if any casting/divine energy was going on or not.

Overall you are right though. The casting aspects of these two classes is almost entirely ignored, other than a paladin's lay on hands and ability to detect evil.



Now I have answer to my own question. On my favorite trilogy Twilight War there is paladin Abelar, who uses spell to dispel spell from Sharran. And that was not done with item.

Also good point with Drizzt, I remember that now. Been ages when I last read that book. Also I think thats last time he did anything "rangerly".
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