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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 19:35:46
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidewalt/2015/04/15/new-dungeons-dragons-fifth-edition/2/
Just posting this here for those of you who are interested. It doesn't really say anything that we didn't know already, but there is some talking about wanting to ''dive deep into the Realms'' through their adventures. Who knows, perhaps we'll actually get to see some regional/themed source-booklets in the future.
Also, it is said that everything they release is tied to the current storyline, including rules, lore and so on. This pretty much confirms that we can forget about a FRCS (to my understanding, at least).
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 15 Apr 2015 19:36:43
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 20:07:30
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I wish WotC luck with this. I'm done. If they're convinced D&D hasn't been a tabletop game for a decade or more, then I just think they've completely lost their minds. Is it more than just a tabletop game? Yeah, definitely....but it's heart is a tabletop game.
Well...in any case, I wish them luck, but I'm out.
Edit: I'm willing to be there's a missed "only" in there, and likely was meant as "D&D isn't ONLY a tabletop game anymore". That I agree with...but still not liking the direction.
I'm not interested in their stories. I make my own, and want tools (in this case, books) that are more oriented to support DMs/players creating their own stories, rather than hope what supports their stories also supports our own.
Well, Pathfinder it is then. At least it's an easy decision for me, so I'll thank WotC for that at least.  |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
Edited by - ZeshinX on 15 Apr 2015 21:20:26 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:06:08
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I think he likely meant that it hasn't been just a tabletop game for a while. Otherwise, the statement makes very little sense.
I thought it was a bit odd that he explicitly mentioned getting converts from 1E and 2E, but he didn't mention converts from 4E... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by ZeshinX
I wish WotC luck with this. I'm done. If they're convinced D&D hasn't been a tabletop game for a decade or more, then I just think they've completely lost their minds. Is it more than just a tabletop game? Yeah, definitely....but it's heart is a tabletop game.
Well...in any case, I wish them luck, but I'm out.
Edit: I'm willing to be there's a missed "only" in there, and likely was meant as "D&D isn't ONLY a tabletop game anymore". That I agree with...but still not liking the direction.
The interviewer asked the EP if he was satisfied with how well D&D has come to be associated with multimedia as much as it has been with the tabletop game. And the EP says, basically, yes.
He also says that the tabletop game is still the core of the brand.
The whole line of questioning was about all of the other media in addition to the tabletop game.
So IMO the only way to interpret the EP's response was that D&D stopped being a tabletop game [alone or only] a long time ago. He's saying that it has been about a lot more, for many years.
And his focus is clearly on that something more, for now. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:41:18
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| IMHO, it isn't D&D to be more than a TTRPG, it's the Realms. D&D is a set of rules, that's it, the Realms can exist without it. People don't care about the rules when buying outside of a TTRPG context. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 15 Apr 2015 22:41:47 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 00:33:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think he likely meant that it hasn't been just a tabletop game for a while. Otherwise, the statement makes very little sense.
I thought it was a bit odd that he explicitly mentioned getting converts from 1E and 2E, but he didn't mention converts from 4E...
Probably because they either don't matter in the long run to be a significant portion of their success OR they expect the vast majority of 4e players to migrate over to Next due to lack of any system support (something 3e players never experienced).
It's hard to narrow down a generalization of 4e players opinion of 5e as I've seen it range from total conversion to complete withdrawal of WotC. I do think there's a large portion of 4e-isms in the game along with enough support to modify the game to suit their purposes. For example, using Constitution score for starting Hit Points instead of Hit Die + Con. modifier has been a houserule I've seen (and use myself) to simulate 4E's more early heroic feel. The continuation of Squares, the use of Marking in the DMG, and resetting Short rest to less than 1 hour are all simple ways to get the 4e vibe with the new system. I've also imported things like Melee Training feat so a character can use Intelli or Charisma modifier for attack rolls.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 01:13:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think he likely meant that it hasn't been just a tabletop game for a while. Otherwise, the statement makes very little sense.
I thought it was a bit odd that he explicitly mentioned getting converts from 1E and 2E, but he didn't mention converts from 4E...
Probably because they either don't matter in the long run to be a significant portion of their success OR they expect the vast majority of 4e players to migrate over to Next due to lack of any system support (something 3e players never experienced).
It's hard to narrow down a generalization of 4e players opinion of 5e as I've seen it range from total conversion to complete withdrawal of WotC. I do think there's a large portion of 4e-isms in the game along with enough support to modify the game to suit their purposes. For example, using Constitution score for starting Hit Points instead of Hit Die + Con. modifier has been a houserule I've seen (and use myself) to simulate 4E's more early heroic feel. The continuation of Squares, the use of Marking in the DMG, and resetting Short rest to less than 1 hour are all simple ways to get the 4e vibe with the new system. I've also imported things like Melee Training feat so a character can use Intelli or Charisma modifier for attack rolls.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to make this any kind of edition thing. I just thought it was a bit odd to mention "Yeah, we got converts from these old, old editions" but not say anything about adoption of the new edition by players of the most recent prior edition. I would have expected more talk about converting existing customers (or about winning back customers that went to other systems), as opposed to happily referring to what I would assume is a comparatively small number of holdouts.
I'd be more impressed with "we converted 85% of 4E players!" than I am with "hey, we converted 67 of the 73 people still playing 1E!" |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Apr 2015 01:15:33 |
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 02:00:00
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I found the interview a tad frustrating. It wasn't clear to me what Nathan was trying to say.
It reminded me of the recent Chris Perkins interview that showed up on Youtube. Vague answers that don't really answer questions.
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 02:18:45
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| As far as tabletop news, I found the interview discouraging. But that Baldur's Gate 3 comment.... ummm... yes please? But do it right. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 02:25:25
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quote:
I found the interview a tad frustrating. It wasn't clear to me what Nathan was trying to say.
It reminded me of the recent Chris Perkins interview that showed up on Youtube. Vague answers that don't really answer questions.
Idk, to me it was very clear. Their interest is in their APs and their tie-ins with eventual VGs or whatever. Their focus is not on the TTRPG, but on ''the brand'', and everything RPG-related will be released only (well, mostly) to provide tools for their APs.
If they really want to be that focused on seasonal stories, they should at least try to move away from the cliché ''evil villain wants to destroy/conquer the world, because it's what villains do'', though, IMO. Also -even in world- it would be pretty tiresome if some apocalyptic threat arose every 6 months/1 year or so (and if all those threats magically happened to have their epicenter in the Sword Coast). I mean, it would become ''oh, look, it's just the end of the world. Don't worry, some adventurers will come in and save the day, and it will be all k''. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Apr 2015 02:30:43 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 02:32:57
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Yup, deliberately vague. All hype, no real substance.
Which is telling, in a way. They're corporate types, talking like industry corporate types talk. The priority is to sound good at all cost.
The telling part is that he's not talking to us. He's not talking to potential new fans of the game either. He's apparently just "talking shop" with some guy. Which is fine, I guess... except that they're not telling us (or potential new fans) much either.
Doesn't seem like turning over a new leaf or doing things differently than they have in the past. Sounds pretty much like they sounded at the beginning of 4e... this is so awesome, we're practically bouncing off the walls. All the while, the 4e Realms is what they were excited about.
I note, though, that he's the Brand Director for D&D... he's not a FR guy. So it kinda makes sense that he's raving about D&D rather than the Realms. When he does talk about the Realms it's general because (I'm guessing here) his job is the D&D game, which has little/nothing to do with FR.
This is all conjecture, but every time we talk about WotC or anything said by an employee of WotC it's always all conjecture. Conjecture is totally fair game. Sometimes some of us get excited about it, sometimes not-so-much. This seems to be one of the not-so-muches.
The problem is trying to predict the future based on conjecture. If we predict good things, and good things happen, we want to believe that good things will always happen. If bad things happen, we're extra-disappointed because we thought it was going to be great. If we predict bad things will happen, and good things happen, then that's cool but negative predictions linger like a bad habit. If bad things do happen as predicted, then our low expectations are confirmed and good freakin luck ever getting us to think positive after that. The whole prediction thing will just never end well.
So... this dude Nathan seems to feel really good about himself. That's about all I can see to say for sure.
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 02:46:33
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| They have previously indicated they have their stories planned out to about 2018. It will take time, but we will get there. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 09:34:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I think he likely meant that it hasn't been just a tabletop game for a while. Otherwise, the statement makes very little sense.
I thought it was a bit odd that he explicitly mentioned getting converts from 1E and 2E, but he didn't mention converts from 4E...
Probably because they either don't matter in the long run to be a significant portion of their success OR they expect the vast majority of 4e players to migrate over to Next due to lack of any system support (something 3e players never experienced).
It's hard to narrow down a generalization of 4e players opinion of 5e as I've seen it range from total conversion to complete withdrawal of WotC. I do think there's a large portion of 4e-isms in the game along with enough support to modify the game to suit their purposes. For example, using Constitution score for starting Hit Points instead of Hit Die + Con. modifier has been a houserule I've seen (and use myself) to simulate 4E's more early heroic feel. The continuation of Squares, the use of Marking in the DMG, and resetting Short rest to less than 1 hour are all simple ways to get the 4e vibe with the new system. I've also imported things like Melee Training feat so a character can use Intelli or Charisma modifier for attack rolls.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't trying to make this any kind of edition thing. I just thought it was a bit odd to mention "Yeah, we got converts from these old, old editions" but not say anything about adoption of the new edition by players of the most recent prior edition. I would have expected more talk about converting existing customers (or about winning back customers that went to other systems), as opposed to happily referring to what I would assume is a comparatively small number of holdouts.
I'd be more impressed with "we converted 85% of 4E players!" than I am with "hey, we converted 67 of the 73 people still playing 1E!"
Well I think if the intent is to bring in those of TSR-era play who've skipped out on 3.5 and 4e, it's important to downplay as little about 4e fans as possible, lest the OSR crowed gets scared off of "modern" game design.
If a large portion of 4e fans were on board, what does that say initially about the system itself, considering the general concensus on the 4e system as a whole and the sorts of games it encourages? If I were to hear about a new version of D&D - clone that is a huge hit with AD&D fans, I'm inclined to believe the game isn't something I'd be interested in.
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sylvain
Acolyte
Canada
18 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 14:10:18
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I was rather disappointed with this interview. As a consumer of Campaign Settings, setting sourcebooks and the like, its discouraging to see D&D only focus on adventures.
It doesn't address fans who want to make their own stories but need tools and inspiration to do it. I don't want an adventure set in say Cormyr, I want a book that talks about Cormyr at great length and plants adventures seeds so that I can make my own adventures.
My most used D&D books are Forgotten Realms sourcebooks... Volo's guides, Lost empires of Faerun, the Silver Marches etc..
I understand that they are afraid of 'bloat' but they aren't addressing all of their fans here... there is no such thing as flavor bloat, nobody ever complained about all of the FR fluff released, they complained about all of the additional classes and feats added.
And again, their answers to what are so simple questions are so broad and un-clear, its becoming a bit irritating. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 15:25:58
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Alternatively, they are producing tools and inspiration for fans to make their own stories. They just aren't doing it in a package we're used to. Want to run a dragon themed campaign? Here's Tyranny of Dragons. Dragon themed magic items and spells, and a campaign to get your creative juices flowing with ideas. Want to run an Elemental themed campaign? Here's Princes of the Apocalypse with Elemental themed items and spells and races. Both sources contain lore and plothooks for their respective regions.
And I daresay I haven't used up all the plot hooks in the Volo's Guides and Boxed sets I own. And if there's one thing I've learned, it's that history repeats itself. There's always a cult, a mad mage, a evil beast, a greedy merchant company, etc threatening a princess or prince's life, or devouring commoners' livestock, or what have you.
All you "need" is updated stat blocks for beasts, items, etc and you can get exactly what you're asking for out of the stuff that's there.
At least from now until 2018, if I"m understanding Jeremy's prior post correctly, they obviously expect their profits to come from one or two adventure modules, sales in their free to play MMO, sales from Sword Coast Legends, sales from miniatures, t-shirts, novels, and the core books.
If their plan doesn't work, and their numbers start dropping, I expect they'll start poking around and seeing what they can do to bring sales up. Maybe a Campaign Setting is their Ace in the hole to throw in if things start dropping too low. That's mere speculation on my part, though.
They keep saying they can't say for sure about future products, and they're in wait and see mode on a lot of things. If their plan does work, they'll keep right on trucking. If it doesn't, I suspect they have a backup plan. I think it was Ed or THO who mentioned that the RPG industry is very fluid. Plans change all the time. What's said today might be reconsidered a month or even a week from now.
That being the case, I'll keep watching and buying what I like, ignoring what I don't like.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 15:54:22
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| I would love it if Wizards actually just accepted the fact that they are not going to be the next Marvel/DC studio and just accept that D&D is not going to put them in a whole new league with regards to money and just focus on giving us a great game. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 16 Apr 2015 17:46:25 |
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TaeghenAmalith
Acolyte
Italy
28 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 17:28:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I would love it of Wizards actually just accepted the fact that they are not going to be the next Marvel/DC studio and just accept that D&D is not going to put them in a whole new league with regards money and just focus on giving us a great game.
Lol! This is pure wisdom but remember that Hasbro is the DM. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 21:13:52
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quote:
Originally posted by sylvain
I understand that they are afraid of 'bloat' but they aren't addressing all of their fans here... there is no such thing as flavor bloat, nobody ever complained about all of the FR fluff released, they complained about all of the additional classes and feats added.
And again, their answers to what are so simple questions are so broad and un-clear, its becoming a bit irritating.
*raises hand*
When 3e's plethora of supplements came out, I felt a LOT of the information therein wasn't necessary. We didn't need yet another hardcover on Waterdeep or the mechanical write-up of nearly every bar keep and wench in the watering holes of most major cities. In fact one of the reasons why I was buying Silver Marches, Unapproachable East, Shining South, etc. was for the feats, spells, and prestige classes therein.
Further, think about how every Eberron, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Ravenloft fan feels to hear that ANY adventure produced so far and going forward is going to be set in the Forgotten Realms. Not only are they too not getting a Setting book but they have FAR less material to pull from to convert, especially Dragonlance and Ravenloft. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 21:25:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
*raises hand*
When 3e's plethora of supplements came out, I felt a LOT of the information therein wasn't necessary. We didn't need yet another hardcover on Waterdeep or the mechanical write-up of nearly every bar keep and wench in the watering holes of most major cities. In fact one of the reasons why I was buying Silver Marches, Unapproachable East, Shining South, etc. was for the feats, spells, and prestige classes therein.
While I will agree that we didn't need those bloated, space-wasting stat blocks, I will otherwise respectfully disagree with your comment.
It's not feats and spells and PrCs that make a setting come alive. It's the people in that setting, and the detail used to describe it, that make the setting come alive. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 22:46:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
When 3e's plethora of supplements came out, I felt a LOT of the information therein wasn't necessary. We didn't need yet another hardcover on Waterdeep or the mechanical write-up of nearly every bar keep and wench in the watering holes of most major cities.
Of course we did, because it was the first hardcover on Waterdeep to have ever existed. 
It had been awhile since anything new on Waterdeep had been published, and that book answered questions that had been posed ad nauseum to Ed, such as how one becomes noble in Waterdeep (Ed's replies in his Ask Ed responses were pretty much quoted verbatim in the Waterdeep hardcover).
Now for veterans of the Realms and those who came to it with 3E but got their hands on a lot of older material before the new stuff saw print, let's be honest: there was a lot of repeat material in the Waterdeep book and in other books (some books were more guilty than others of this).
So to that extent it's reasonable to say there was no need for another Waterdeep book. However, for new fans that didn't have the older material, the book was very much necessary. Waterdeep is too important and useful a place not to be covered in 3E.
In my case as a veteran Realms DM and fan, the Waterdeep book became something I had by my side at every gaming session when I expected to see play occur in Waterdeep. For me it's the most useful of all the Waterdeep books and remains so to this day.
(I'll also point out I never read Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, so the 3E Underdark for me was my first taste of a lot of material others were already familiar with.)
This speaks to concerns outside of the Realms too, because product glut for generic books on magic items and races is a real issue. I had no desire to buy anything in 4E having to do with races, classes, magic, terrain, fantastic dungeons, etc., because I pretty much already have those books in 3E and earlier.
Thus the hesitancy on WotC's part as to what to produce for 5E. They have brought a lot of fans from other editions into the fold, so no reason to turn them off with retreads.
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
In fact one of the reasons why I was buying Silver Marches, Unapproachable East, Shining South, etc. was for the feats, spells, and prestige classes therein.
Ditto here, though the first thing I looked for as a DM were monster entries (Underdark was such a great book, just for the monsters alone).
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Further, think about how every Eberron, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Ravenloft fan feels to hear that ANY adventure produced so far and going forward is going to be set in the Forgotten Realms. Not only are they too not getting a Setting book but they have FAR less material to pull from to convert, especially Dragonlance and Ravenloft.
Their's is going to be a long wait, but by all accounts it won't be forever. According to the interview, when WotC dives in to another world, they're going all in.
Now is the time for fans of the other settings to advocate for which one will be next after the Realms. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 16 Apr 2015 22:53:05 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 00:26:47
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Thing is, a lot of stuff wasn't a rehash but an update.
Believe it or not, people do want to buy updated products, even if they cover some specifics already.
The biggest problem I am seeing right now is they are not properly addressing this supposed issue with bloat. Not printing much is not the proper way to solve bloat. Also, I am seeing a lot of anecdotal evidence being dropped here. A lot of "well I didn't use it" etc....
I also believe what Wizards is trying to do is solve the corebooks always sell better than anything after that conundrum and it's never going to be solved. Corebooks will always sell more because they are what you must have in order to play the game. That's why everything else has always been referred to as "optional". |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 14:30:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
*raises hand*
When 3e's plethora of supplements came out, I felt a LOT of the information therein wasn't necessary. We didn't need yet another hardcover on Waterdeep or the mechanical write-up of nearly every bar keep and wench in the watering holes of most major cities. In fact one of the reasons why I was buying Silver Marches, Unapproachable East, Shining South, etc. was for the feats, spells, and prestige classes therein.
While I will agree that we didn't need those bloated, space-wasting stat blocks, I will otherwise respectfully disagree with your comment.
It's not feats and spells and PrCs that make a setting come alive. It's the people in that setting, and the detail used to describe it, that make the setting come alive.
Eh, the books could have done a much better job painting a setting overview without getting into the gritty details IMO and still provided a vibrant atmosphere. I'm not saying they should've gone to 4E's generalized style but I would have liked to have less FULLY detailed areas. For example, when I open up the FRCS and turn to say....the Moonsea, I'd like to see more focus on the smaller towns like Hullburg however we received practically nothing there. Same with Phlan. But what we got was a WHOLE page and a half of regional history and Fzoul's stats. Couldn't the history have been summed up more and Fzoul's stats hacked down to something quick and simple and left more room for the "here and now" of the area? We got maybe 3 sentences of Plots and Rumors.....gee that's going to get the creative juices flowing. That's what I'm talking about. History and everything is nice but a more summed up version would've been better than 1 and a half or 2 pages of the history of Cormanthyr. Maybe even referencing previous materials like supplements of older editions and novels can help a DM fill in these things.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
When 3e's plethora of supplements came out, I felt a LOT of the information therein wasn't necessary. We didn't need yet another hardcover on Waterdeep or the mechanical write-up of nearly every bar keep and wench in the watering holes of most major cities.
Of course we did, because it was the first hardcover on Waterdeep to have ever existed.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It had been awhile since anything new on Waterdeep had been published, and that book answered questions that had been posed ad nauseum to Ed, such as how one becomes noble in Waterdeep (Ed's replies in his Ask Ed responses were pretty much quoted verbatim in the Waterdeep hardcover).
Now for veterans of the Realms and those who came to it with 3E but got their hands on a lot of older material before the new stuff saw print, let's be honest: there was a lot of repeat material in the Waterdeep book and in other books (some books were more guilty than others of this).
So to that extent it's reasonable to say there was no need for another Waterdeep book. However, for new fans that didn't have the older material, the book was very much necessary. Waterdeep is too important and useful a place not to be covered in 3E.
It would've been far better released as a series of on-line articles like they did for the Lake of Steam, Border Kingdoms area a while back. USE articles and on-line references to shore up any changes to the setting or updates to existing material. DON'T feel the need to put it ALL into a nother $39.99 book that could've been used for something else, something that hasn't been done before.
Have we ever received a real setting book that intricately details the Demon Lands (Vaasa, Nar, Damara) or Rasheman? Not to my understanding. How about Kara-Tur (no, Oriental Adventures doesn't really count)? What about Chult and Zakahara? To my knowledge these are areas that are pretty much devoid of any deep lore and substantial material outside of some brief overviews. Hell even the Vilhon Reach is lacking. The only real info I got of that area was by reading The Sapphire Crescent series.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
In my case as a veteran Realms DM and fan, the Waterdeep book became something I had by my side at every gaming session when I expected to see play occur in Waterdeep. For me it's the most useful of all the Waterdeep books and remains so to this day.
(I'll also point out I never read Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark, so the 3E Underdark for me was my first taste of a lot of material others were already familiar with.)
This speaks to concerns outside of the Realms too, because product glut for generic books on magic items and races is a real issue. I had no desire to buy anything in 4E having to do with races, classes, magic, terrain, fantastic dungeons, etc., because I pretty much already have those books in 3E and earlier.
See where as I'd like to have a nice book handy to throw out random treasure and not have to come up with material on the fly. Oh, you need some +2 chainmail that fits the area, well I'll look at the Adventure Vault 2 because there's a section about a set-piece of cold-based items that you've stumbled across. I never got the Races book but the majority of races features in 4E also came with classes and other player's options. PHB 3 featured Gith and Minotaurs along with Psionics. Previous editions aren't going to help you there.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Thus the hesitancy on WotC's part as to what to produce for 5E. They have brought a lot of fans from other editions into the fold, so no reason to turn them off with retreads.
I guess it's also why they haven't produced setting books too. The same could be said that fans can easily pick up AD&D, 3E, and 4E supplements to fill in the areas of any particular setting and just port in the 5E rules.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
In fact one of the reasons why I was buying Silver Marches, Unapproachable East, Shining South, etc. was for the feats, spells, and prestige classes therein.
Ditto here, though the first thing I looked for as a DM were monster entries (Underdark was such a great book, just for the monsters alone).
Underdark was good, a great companion to the Drow of the Underdark book (both of which I also use for 4E too). With those two supplments, it made running City of the Spiderqueen a LOT more fun!
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Further, think about how every Eberron, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Ravenloft fan feels to hear that ANY adventure produced so far and going forward is going to be set in the Forgotten Realms. Not only are they too not getting a Setting book but they have FAR less material to pull from to convert, especially Dragonlance and Ravenloft.
There is going to be a long wait, but by all accounts it won't be forever. According to the interview, when WotC dives in to another world, they're going all in.
Now is the time for fans of the other settings to advocate for which one will be next after the Realms.
4E did that too with the PHB and the backlash was pretty severe. When you're used to DOZENS of books loaded with material and then drop down to some trickling of info over the course of a few months or years, people tend to lose interest. If I wasn't interested in the Forgotten Realms and was instead, Eberron the only thing we have received was the Warforged in the DMG and an Unearthed Arcana article about the Artificers, Dragonmark Feats, and Shifters. Not only that but the theme and genre of Eberron is a STARK difference to the Forgotten Realms and much harder to port over to any areas of the Eberron setting. |
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Interview with D&D Executive Producer
