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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 20:45:04
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I'm not holding my breath for a FRCG because it seems Wizards maybe sticking to their guns no matter how bad it may be.
If we don't get a FRCG do you think all the cool authors could come up with their own stuff on the side and present it to us here? I would gladly pay them for lore if that is the case.
What will you do if all we get is the two AP's a year?
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 21:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
What will you do if all we get is the two AP's a year?
I would keep doing what I've been doing up to now, working with the lore that is already out there, which basically is what I've been doing since I started using the FR. I've come to know the FR/D&D through the various CRPGs, but I only started reading about it towards the end of 4e (2012), using the 3e FRCS. I didn't like what 4e did at all, so I've been stuck finding and using older sources since then (this is also why I was excited about 5e, because what I liked and 4e thrown away would have been restored and supported with new development).
With the CK compendium being on a hiatus because of copyright issues (if I understand correctly), I don't know how would WotC react to authors releasing FR content. I -and any of us, I think- would be very happy to buy their new lore, if they decided (and were allowed) to produce it, of course. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 13 Apr 2015 21:40:58 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 21:04:45
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I don't think any author would be unprofessional enough to release Realmsore for money and promote it on this website, which would jeopardize Candlekeep's existence.
If all that is released are adventure paths, then I will turn my attention to the novels, keep producing my own content to share with others, and advocate for more Realmslore to be released directly on WotC's website. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 21:44:31
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| As we've seen in the past, WotC generally ignores people who distribute their own material for free -- but once money changes hands, they will come down on the offending party like Lolth on the Orkin guy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 22:27:55
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Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but it seems that the Realms Secretariat site Ed launched is going to be setup for authors to share home brew stuff in a similar way to what you're suggesting, but free. Like George Krashos' article on Gauntlgrym?
It's not a full campaign setting, but it's useable. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 22:52:29
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| I just don't feel right asking the authors to produce good stuff for free. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 00:36:09
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We should not be asking them to do anything.
We should wait patiently to see if they produce something and are willing to share it, say thanks and then talk it up like mad so WotC takes notice and realizes they should be publishing Realms material again. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 01:03:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
We should not be asking them to do anything.
We should wait patiently to see if they produce something and are willing to share it, say thanks and then talk it up like mad so WotC takes notice and realizes they should be publishing Realms material again.
This is the right attitude, but it is so very difficult to be patient. Lack of it is my most outstanding character flaw. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Baptor
Seeker
USA
93 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 05:51:13
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Just a month or two ago a good portion of this community was optimistic a FRCS would be published this year or next. From what I see here some of those folks have changed their tune.
Did something happen? Has WotC said something new about publishing a FRCS (or rather not publishing it)? |
Jesus said, "I am the Ressurection and the Life. Anyone who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and those who live and believe in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 06:07:41
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WotC has dropped hints that they are not going to work on a new FRCS until they can commit their full attention to it. After they dropped more hints that they are re-thinking the entire business of book publication. They want to produce books that will be used over and over and not sit on a shelf collecting dust.
Their release schedule is slow, they have stated all of the D&D worlds are the core setting, they are focussing efforts on building the brand of D&D and we didn't quite get the resolution to the Sundering that people were looking for.
Or something like that.
No worries though. If they stop supporting the Realms or otherwise keep to a release schedule like 4E's, then they will have left the door wide open for the fans to fill in the gaps. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 14:31:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
No worries though. If they stop supporting the Realms or otherwise keep to a release schedule like 4E's, then they will have left the door wide open for the fans to fill in the gaps.
Exactly. I have a new mantra, and it's gaining strength.
The year is 1500, and the Realms is what You want it to be.
And that's a "worst case scenario" assuming you care about canon and want to move forward. If you're running campaigns in the 1350s, then "no news" is great news.
The point is that you can do anything you want, use any material you want, and canon (if that matters) isn't contradicting you.
This is the new golden age of Realms development... Our development of it.
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but it seems that the Realms Secretariat site Ed launched is going to be setup for authors to share home brew stuff
Also this! |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 14 Apr 2015 14:34:25 |
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sylvain
Acolyte
Canada
18 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 14:36:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptor
Just a month or two ago a good portion of this community was optimistic a FRCS would be published this year or next. From what I see here some of those folks have changed their tune.
Did something happen? Has WotC said something new about publishing a FRCS (or rather not publishing it)?
Its all speculation from an interview Chris Perkins had a little while ago.
"One of our creative challenges is to package [setting] material - reintroduce facts and important details about our worlds - in a way that we know that DMs and players are going to use, that's going to excite them, that's actually going to surprise them. We may get that content out, but I'm not going to guarantee it's going to be a book. I'm not going to guarantee that it's going to be anything that you've seen before. But it will be something."
https://youtu.be/alnwC34qUFs
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So I think we can be optimistic that their will be some form of FR update, but in the form of a book or boxed set is un-clear at this point.
Personally, I don't think a FRCS would hurt the business at all, I still use my FRCS 3E to no end. I can see why they don't want to produce things like Rules Modules, yeah those may well end up just sitting on the shelf, but Campaign Settings always get used, and seeing how they 'refreshed' the realms with the Sundering, some form of update is sorely needed.
All we can do is hope. For now I'm mainly running adventures in 2E/3E timeline until we get that update. |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 17:24:21
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I may be a rarity, but if it isn't a book, it's not terribly useful to me at the table. A digital book is something, but even that is less useful to me, as I ban gadgets from the gaming table (my group has proved incapable of ignoring the beeping and shiny distractions, through their own admission).
I simply prefer books. I find Mr. Perkins desire regarding the use of books (i.e. sitting unused, on a shelf, collecting dust) to be understandable, but unwelcome. Frankly, if the book is purchased, WotC's involvement with what is done with them from that point....is of absolutely no concern of theirs (short of copyright violations). I find it more likely the comment is a nicer sound bite than "We don't make enough money publishing books ourselves" (but even that is my own speculation and interpretation based on the last year or so).
I prefer a collected, static snapshot. I still have many (OGB, 2e boxed set, 3e FRCS, FR Adventures hardcover, various 1e/2e/3e soft and hardcovers, Kara Tur boxed set, etc), so I'm not feeling hard done by. More than anything, I'm feeling sorry I won't be supporting WotC's new vision. Of course, I'm sure both I and WotC will survive just fine. ;) |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 19:43:38
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The thing that doesn't make sense to me is if you are using your old stuff then Wizards makes no money. I would bet anything not a lot of people buy those AP's and you can only run on sales from the corebooks for so long.
Chris and the rest of Wizards don't need to worry about what I do with my books. They talk about creating books that can be used over and over again. Well AP's aren't something that get used over and over again. I can't think of any book, outside of adventures and AP's, that I didn't use over and over again. It makes you wonder if he has even read the books if he is making a statement like that. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 20:07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is if you are using your old stuff then Wizards makes no money. I would bet anything not a lot of people buy those AP's and you can only run on sales from the corebooks for so long.
Chris and the rest of Wizards don't need to worry about what I do with my books. They talk about creating books that can be used over and over again. Well AP's aren't something that get used over and over again. I can't think of any book, outside of adventures and AP's, that I didn't use over and over again. It makes you wonder if he has even read the books if he is making a statement like that.
But their newer AP's are something I would use over again. MiBG and the Icewind Dale adventures both had Campaign booklets detailing their respective regions that I'll use repeatedly.
The Princes of the Apocalypse (PotA) has a chapter on the Dessarin Valley's current state that I'll reference for any post-Sundering game.
PotA also has Monster Stat blocks and Magic Items that aren't in the MM or DMG that I'll use even if I never run the adventure.
The DnDClassics store sells pdfs of the older products that you can buy if you're new to the game and don't have, for example, the 3E FRCS, so Wizards is making money on the older products, just not in a physical copy format.
By doing it this way, they are, first, guaranteed some sales simply because AL players and DM's need to buy the Adventure if they are going to run it. Secondly, if you want to flesh out your Realms game, you go to DnDClassics and buy the 3EFRCS if you don't have it. If you already have it, WotC has already made their money off of the book when they sold it years ago.
If you don't do AL, but do 5E, the book is useful for the Magic Items and Lore. The spells and races, not so much, as those are in the free pdf. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 20:56:02
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I can't speak to adventure paths, because I have never run them, but I can say I have used the same handful of adventures from Dungeon Magazine multiple times in different campaigns.
Even so, WotC (and third party publishers) would need to produce more adventures than just too long APs a year to make it so different players had not all played the same thing and ran out of 5E stuff to use. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 21:42:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
The thing that doesn't make sense to me is if you are using your old stuff then Wizards makes no money. I would bet anything not a lot of people buy those AP's and you can only run on sales from the corebooks for so long.
Chris and the rest of Wizards don't need to worry about what I do with my books. They talk about creating books that can be used over and over again. Well AP's aren't something that get used over and over again. I can't think of any book, outside of adventures and AP's, that I didn't use over and over again. It makes you wonder if he has even read the books if he is making a statement like that.
But their newer AP's are something I would use over again. MiBG and the Icewind Dale adventures both had Campaign booklets detailing their respective regions that I'll use repeatedly.
The Princes of the Apocalypse (PotA) has a chapter on the Dessarin Valley's current state that I'll reference for any post-Sundering game.
PotA also has Monster Stat blocks and Magic Items that aren't in the MM or DMG that I'll use even if I never run the adventure.
The DnDClassics store sells pdfs of the older products that you can buy if you're new to the game and don't have, for example, the 3E FRCS, so Wizards is making money on the older products, just not in a physical copy format.
By doing it this way, they are, first, guaranteed some sales simply because AL players and DM's need to buy the Adventure if they are going to run it. Secondly, if you want to flesh out your Realms game, you go to DnDClassics and buy the 3EFRCS if you don't have it. If you already have it, WotC has already made their money off of the book when they sold it years ago.
If you don't do AL, but do 5E, the book is useful for the Magic Items and Lore. The spells and races, not so much, as those are in the free pdf.
Technically you can reuse anything from any AP out there, even Paizo ones, but most people would use an AP pretty much once if they play with the same group. Wizards' strategy doesn't really make sense to be honest compared to what they say. Campaign lore books, racial guides, etc, are books that people use over and over and over.
Not to mention that adventures have contained magic items, spells, etc, for years and years so saying they want to create books that people can use over and over just doesn't make sense because this is how it's always been done.
They just are not making sense. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 14 Apr 2015 21:45:06 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 22:32:56
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I kinda see what you're getting at. I've also heard it argued that sourcebooks don't sell that well.
That argument makes sense to me.
TSR went bankrupt printing adventures and lorebooks separate. Maybe that model is a recipe for drawn-out, slow death from a financial standpoint, and they want to try something that has potential to do better?
I admittedly don't have numbers to back up the idea, but to me, a book that appeals to people who just want crunch and don't care about the Realms, while at the same time providing lore to the people that want Realmslore, does make sense. You are making a product with something for everyone.
I'd much rather sit down with a nice, juicy book like El's Forgotten Realms, but like one of the James brothers pointed out elsewhere here, the Realms is a niche within a niche. Granted, it's a more popular niche, but it's still limited in scope.
Making a book that kills two birds with one stone makes sense to me. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 22:40:58
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If WotC were to do things exactly as they've done before, 5E will be over in a handful of years.
We'll have system bloat, we'll have yet another iteration of race books (that most people won't purchase, because they already have race books from 2E, 3E and/or 4E) and we'll have more people asking, "Why do the same thing all over again so soon?"
Sure some people will purchase these kinds of books--Realmslore books too, I would imagine--but to what degree?
WotC is trying to make this iteration of D&D last, not trying to repeat the past.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 22:43:31
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Yeah, but a CS book for their flagship setting -that even adventures could reference- (or at least a broad update) surely won't send them bankrupt.
A CS is to the lore/story of D&D what the core books are to the rules. It could also be an ''evergreen product'', unless they start blowing the world up again. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 14 Apr 2015 22:44:12 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 22:48:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
If WotC were to do things exactly as they've done before, 5E will be over in a handful of years.
We'll have system bloat, we'll have yet another iteration of race books (that most people won't purchase, because they already have race books from 2E, 3E and/or 4E) and we'll have more people asking, "Why do the same thing all over again so soon?"
Sure some people will purchase these kinds of books--Realmslore books too, I would imagine--but to what degree?
WotC is trying to make this iteration of D&D last, not trying to repeat the past.
4th edition didn't die of bloat, Pathfinder isn't dying of bloat.
The bloat theory is just a cover up. They have realized that D&D as a tabletop RPG is not going to make them the money they want. You don't even have to go the route of 3rd and 4th edition and still put out more product than we are seeing now. Setting campaign guides and supplements have always been reusable, hell they are even promoting using all the old stuff but yet they talk about creating product that people can reuse. I honestly think they don't know what they are doing or what they want to do. 3rd edition had loads of books and yet it survives to this day with Pathfinder. That's what, 15 years plus?
Also, who says you have to throw in rules all the time? |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 22:49:37
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I'd be happy if they'd just release these old story bibles they talk about. Just edit out any spoilers and put the pdf up on drivethrurpg.
I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but I dream. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2015 : 22:51:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Yeah, but a CS book for their flagship setting -that even adventures could reference- (or at least a broad update) surely won't send them bankrupt.
A CS is to the lore/story of D&D what the core books are to the rules. It could also be an ''evergreen product'', unless they start blowing the world up again.
Exactly!
We have already shown Wizards the power that FR fans have so if they want a repeat of 4th edition FR then they can keep going the way they are but I can bet you it won't be a good outcome for them. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 00:44:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I kinda see what you're getting at. I've also heard it argued that sourcebooks don't sell that well.
That argument makes sense to me.
TSR went bankrupt printing adventures and lorebooks separate.
Actually... TSR went bankrupt because they were actively supporting something like 6 or 7 settings, selling boxed sets at a loss, chasing after other markets (including CCGs and software), and being run into the ground by someone who, by most accounts, had no use for the game industry at all. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 01:00:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I kinda see what you're getting at. I've also heard it argued that sourcebooks don't sell that well.
That argument makes sense to me.
TSR went bankrupt printing adventures and lorebooks separate.
Actually... TSR went bankrupt because they were actively supporting something like 6 or 7 settings, selling boxed sets at a loss, chasing after other markets (including CCGs and software), and being run into the ground by someone who, by most accounts, had no use for the game industry at all.
I don't disagree. I'm only suggesting that this is a possible contributing factor. To my thinking, if the sourcebook / rules supplements of 3e and 2e were a good way to make money in the long term, they'd use it. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 03:55:26
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I dunno. Paizo seems to be doing exceptionally well with Pathfinder and sourcebooks/rules supplements. Granted, they've certainly built their brand beyond a tabletop game...but without sacrificing said tabletop game or regular releases supporting it. While their "love of the game" may be a driving force that keeps them going, they wouldn't keep doing it if it wasn't making them money.
Bah, I'm starting to sound like a skipping record, even to myself. I suppose I just miss cracking open a new Realms tome. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 06:21:40
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Pathfinder has found what works for Pathfinder. As I understand it, PF only has one official world. I don't expect Paizo to cater to Ravenloft, the Realms, etc. WotC has different public expectations because they have so many Campaign Settings under one banner. Nobody expects Paizo to make Realmslore, Eberron, and Dragonlance, and still make core supplements that keep the players that just want to run their own home settings, but they do expect that of D&D.
I want more Realmslore as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I have a corner on the market of marketable solutions to make the most bang for Wizards' buck. Wizards is telling me the way they've done things in the past isn't going to work for them now.
So as much as I may or may not want the familiar model, I can pretty much give up on getting it.
If I just did what I wanted, we'd have a Volo's Guide type supplement for the Realms at least every quarter, a new adventure designed to only take 4 hours of play to complete twice a month, and tons of cool T-shirts, posters, and such. But I don't know that such a model would work for sure. I don't have the numbers to back up my ideas. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 07:19:49
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| well if we dont get a 5e frcs, well I will just read novels and buy PF stuff.... some of which has nice art. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 10:59:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Pathfinder has found what works for Pathfinder. As I understand it, PF only has one official world. I don't expect Paizo to cater to Ravenloft, the Realms, etc. WotC has different public expectations because they have so many Campaign Settings under one banner. Nobody expects Paizo to make Realmslore, Eberron, and Dragonlance, and still make core supplements that keep the players that just want to run their own home settings, but they do expect that of D&D.
I want more Realmslore as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I have a corner on the market of marketable solutions to make the most bang for Wizards' buck. Wizards is telling me the way they've done things in the past isn't going to work for them now.
So as much as I may or may not want the familiar model, I can pretty much give up on getting it.
If I just did what I wanted, we'd have a Volo's Guide type supplement for the Realms at least every quarter, a new adventure designed to only take 4 hours of play to complete twice a month, and tons of cool T-shirts, posters, and such. But I don't know that such a model would work for sure. I don't have the numbers to back up my ideas.
Wizards biggest problem is Hasbro.
They talk about what they did in the past but the problem is they go from one extreme to the next. Also, they can't seem to acknowledge that 4th editions problem wasn't in the amount of releases, but the rules themselves. I bet you if they did a 4th edition release schedule with 5th edition, there wouldn't be a problem. Even cutting back on 4th's releases would still give us lots more products than we are getting know.
What I would do is have Wizards focus on FR, and then give 3PP the pemission to work on other campaign settings. I think it was Necromancer Games who did Ravenloft back during 3rd edition.
I may not work for a gaming company, but that doesn't mean I don't know the biz. I've been around it now for over 30 years and I do know what people like. Some folks think that if you work for Wizards that somehow grants you magical knowledge on how things are done and only working for Wizards enables one to posses that knowledge. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 15 Apr 2015 11:01:42 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 14:38:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Pathfinder has found what works for Pathfinder. As I understand it, PF only has one official world. I don't expect Paizo to cater to Ravenloft, the Realms, etc. WotC has different public expectations because they have so many Campaign Settings under one banner. Nobody expects Paizo to make Realmslore, Eberron, and Dragonlance, and still make core supplements that keep the players that just want to run their own home settings, but they do expect that of D&D.
I want more Realmslore as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I have a corner on the market of marketable solutions to make the most bang for Wizards' buck. Wizards is telling me the way they've done things in the past isn't going to work for them now.
So as much as I may or may not want the familiar model, I can pretty much give up on getting it.
If I just did what I wanted, we'd have a Volo's Guide type supplement for the Realms at least every quarter, a new adventure designed to only take 4 hours of play to complete twice a month, and tons of cool T-shirts, posters, and such. But I don't know that such a model would work for sure. I don't have the numbers to back up my ideas.
Wizards biggest problem is Hasbro.
They talk about what they did in the past but the problem is they go from one extreme to the next. Also, they can't seem to acknowledge that 4th editions problem wasn't in the amount of releases, but the rules themselves. I bet you if they did a 4th edition release schedule with 5th edition, there wouldn't be a problem. Even cutting back on 4th's releases would still give us lots more products than we are getting know.
What I would do is have Wizards focus on FR, and then give 3PP the pemission to work on other campaign settings. I think it was Necromancer Games who did Ravenloft back during 3rd edition.
I may not work for a gaming company, but that doesn't mean I don't know the biz. I've been around it now for over 30 years and I do know what people like. Some folks think that if you work for Wizards that somehow grants you magical knowledge on how things are done and only working for Wizards enables one to posses that knowledge.
Your plan makes sense to me. And I don't mean to imply that you have no clue what you're talking about. If I came across that way, I apologize. At the same time, I don't wholeheartedly agree that WotC doesn't know what they are doing. They have been playing their cards pretty close to the vest, and all of their hints say that there is more going on behind the scenes.
While I don't want to go so far as to say we should trust them, (trust a corporation? Riiight) I suspect they have something going for them.
It might not serve tabletop interests. All this talk of focusing on D&D as a brand, not just a tabletop game, has raised that suspicion. But whatever they do, I'm sure it's intended to bring them profit, and I'm fairly certain it's intended to help them meet their stated goal of making this edition last longer than previous editions.
They have said that PHB sales exceeded their expectations.
I just hope that doesn't or didn't make some guy in corporate rear his head and screw up what may have been a beautiful long term plan.
Anyway, I'm rambling.
TL:DR, I don't have all the cards WotC has in their hands. They did a good job making Core Rules that bring in people who had walked away. If they drop the ball now, it would surprise me. Not saying it won't happen. It's within the realm of possibility, but I don't want to call it until the game has been out a little longer. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 18:09:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Pathfinder has found what works for Pathfinder. As I understand it, PF only has one official world. I don't expect Paizo to cater to Ravenloft, the Realms, etc. WotC has different public expectations because they have so many Campaign Settings under one banner. Nobody expects Paizo to make Realmslore, Eberron, and Dragonlance, and still make core supplements that keep the players that just want to run their own home settings, but they do expect that of D&D.
I want more Realmslore as much as the next guy, but I'm not sure I have a corner on the market of marketable solutions to make the most bang for Wizards' buck. Wizards is telling me the way they've done things in the past isn't going to work for them now.
So as much as I may or may not want the familiar model, I can pretty much give up on getting it.
If I just did what I wanted, we'd have a Volo's Guide type supplement for the Realms at least every quarter, a new adventure designed to only take 4 hours of play to complete twice a month, and tons of cool T-shirts, posters, and such. But I don't know that such a model would work for sure. I don't have the numbers to back up my ideas.
Wizards biggest problem is Hasbro.
They talk about what they did in the past but the problem is they go from one extreme to the next. Also, they can't seem to acknowledge that 4th editions problem wasn't in the amount of releases, but the rules themselves. I bet you if they did a 4th edition release schedule with 5th edition, there wouldn't be a problem. Even cutting back on 4th's releases would still give us lots more products than we are getting know.
What I would do is have Wizards focus on FR, and then give 3PP the pemission to work on other campaign settings. I think it was Necromancer Games who did Ravenloft back during 3rd edition.
I may not work for a gaming company, but that doesn't mean I don't know the biz. I've been around it now for over 30 years and I do know what people like. Some folks think that if you work for Wizards that somehow grants you magical knowledge on how things are done and only working for Wizards enables one to posses that knowledge.
Your plan makes sense to me. And I don't mean to imply that you have no clue what you're talking about. If I came across that way, I apologize. At the same time, I don't wholeheartedly agree that WotC doesn't know what they are doing. They have been playing their cards pretty close to the vest, and all of their hints say that there is more going on behind the scenes.
While I don't want to go so far as to say we should trust them, (trust a corporation? Riiight) I suspect they have something going for them.
It might not serve tabletop interests. All this talk of focusing on D&D as a brand, not just a tabletop game, has raised that suspicion. But whatever they do, I'm sure it's intended to bring them profit, and I'm fairly certain it's intended to help them meet their stated goal of making this edition last longer than previous editions.
They have said that PHB sales exceeded their expectations.
I just hope that doesn't or didn't make some guy in corporate rear his head and screw up what may have been a beautiful long term plan.
Anyway, I'm rambling.
TL:DR, I don't have all the cards WotC has in their hands. They did a good job making Core Rules that bring in people who had walked away. If they drop the ball now, it would surprise me. Not saying it won't happen. It's within the realm of possibility, but I don't want to call it until the game has been out a little longer.
Oh no no! I wasn't implying that's what you meant. I was basically talking about other people on different forums.
If I am to be blunt, I am not interested in things outside the TTRPG and I feel that I am not alone. I do think Wizards is going to be left holding the bag while Paizo continues to take in more and more business. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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If we don't get a new FRCG.
