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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 16:42:26
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Since other regions in the Forgotten Realms are based on the different regional heritage of Earth locations, has it ever been mentioned what the ethnic heritage of the people of Semphar and Raurin are based upon?
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Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 17:19:05
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Not a complete comparison but I always got a inner desert vibe from Raurin. So the splendrously heavy goldwearing people of Mali would make for a good analogous desert folk. The past bloodlines of the Imaskari people gave the Raurin folk probably a lighter complexion though.
Semphari folk to me call forth an image of southeast asia, their trade culture best reflected by our own worlds iranian, indian or bangladeshian people (former Sassanid empire). The Adama reminds me of zoroastrianism, the form of dual opposing forces centered state philosophy that rose from the East Persian Sassanid empire.
Remember that most folk in the Realms aren't based on any real world analogies at all, so be cautious in applying any. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 17:27:27
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Just a point of clarity: after -2500 DR, there aren't any people from Raurin -- except the mulan of Mulhorand, Murghom, Unther, and Thay. Originally Raurin was the homeland of the Imaskari, and they controlled the area that is now Semphar, but following the fall of Imaskar there was an influx of Shou in Semphar and by 1500 DR the Semphari undoubtedly deserve their own racial subtype because they're different from the mulan or the people of Murghom. The Deep/High Imaskari are probably the closest to the ancient Imaskari.
...based on my readings anyway.
Races of Faerun says the humans of Semphar are 50% Mulan, 35% Durpari, 10% Tuigan, 4% Shou, and 1% other.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 17:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Remember that most folk in the Realms aren't based on any real world analogies at all, so be cautious in applying any.
I actually feel like the opposite is true.
Maztica-Native Americans, Inca, Maya, Aztec
Kara Tur & Tu'Lung-practically the entire continent of Asia
Moonshae Isles- United Kingdom
Zakhara- Middle East
Hordelands-Mongolia
Plenty of other kingdoms feel like they are based on European ones to me as well.
Why be cautious when applying real-world heritage to the Forgotten Realms? I'm not offending anyone by saying that a group of people that don't really exist is based on a real-life group. It's just a way to add flavor to the setting for gaming purposes. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 17:41:04
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Also, Semphar is ruled by a Caliph and wizers, and there are plenty of Arabian-esque references in the game material (The Horde box, which was published before the Al-Qadim setting) so I'm pretty sure they were aiming for a middle eastern vibe.
Real-world connections in Realmslore are a huge turn-off to me, so I try to rewrite or work around them whenever possible. But I know that's mostly just me. Creativity should result in something new. Relying on references from Earth is a crutch at best; it's fine for initial inspiration but I wish every designer saw it as just a stepping stone instead of a destination.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 17:50:19
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
Also, Semphar is ruled by a Caliph and wizers, and there are plenty of Arabian-esque references in the game material (The Horde box, which was published before the Al-Qadim setting) so I'm pretty sure they were aiming for a middle eastern vibe.
Yeah I imagined the area would have an arabian feel given its proximity to Zakhara. |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 17:59:22
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Yeah, I like to compare realms areas to real world places aswell, but try to keep things interesting. Stealing outright (city maps or building plans for palaces) can help hasten the process of a DM prep, but I always try to keep an eye out for turning things on their head and spicing things up with high octane fantasy.
What I like about Semphar is that its so intimately connected to the rest of Faerun. Its ports are the busiest of Faerun, giving it that important influence of Faerunian goods and ideas. I would love to see some art for the architecture of Vaelans tower district. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 18:04:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I would love to see some art for the architecture of Vaelans tower district.
Are you by chance thinking of Durpar?
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 18:09:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
Yeah, I like to compare realms areas to real world places aswell, but try to keep things interesting. Stealing outright (city maps or building plans for palaces) can help hasten the process of a DM prep, but I always try to keep an eye out for turning things on their head and spicing things up with high octane fantasy.
Ahh gotcha! Yeah I wouldn't actually copy real life building plans or city layouts like that. I just like using real world events and influence to sprinkle them into the Realms ... and given the geographical area of Semphar/Raurin (gateway between the west and east), I figured it could be ripe for some events from Earth. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 19:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
quote:
Originally posted by Bladewind
I would love to see some art for the architecture of Vaelans tower district.
Are you by chance thinking of Durpar?
Oops, I guess I am.
With the racial mixup you mentioned the Semphari people are of mixed mulan/durpari stock. This still gives off that Sassanid empire feel I mentioned. Guess a bit less coast-trade oriented, so more like afghan tribes perhaps. |
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Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 20:15:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
Why be cautious when applying real-world heritage to the Forgotten Realms? I'm not offending anyone by saying that a group of people that don't really exist is based on a real-life group. It's just a way to add flavor to the setting for gaming purposes.
The reason is because cultures have a lot of influences. Things that influenced particular real-world cultures may be absent or changed in the Realms, and with an entirely different history, cultures in the Realms could have influences that aren't present in the real world.
Religion is an excellent example. In the real world, in the Middle Ages, there was a single religion that was highly dominant in Europe. In the Realms, pretty much every place on the planet is pantheistic, so there was no single religion that shaped and influenced culture. Similarly, in the Realms, deities can actually drop by for tea -- which gives a different impact to religion, and can have an impact on a culture. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 21:23:14
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I like to depict Semphar in my campaigns as a wizardly magocracy with Persian/Zoroastrian themes and vibes (note, that doesn't mean it's literally those things, but it has inspiration from it. It's still a fantasy place), as opposed to it being -yet- another Arabesque place. I also like using inspiration from Pathfinder's Qadira for it.
Although I got to say one thing I hate about Semphar from the sourcebooks. The fact that it's stated the leader of Semphar is called Abu Bakr, not only just that but Caliph Abu Bakr (Father in law of the prophet Muhammed and his successor, first Caliph of the Rashidun Caliphate). That's just so lazy, ripping a character right out of a history book.
I mean I like sandbox fantasy settings which like Forgotten Realms offer fantasy cultures that may offer the vibes and themes of real world cultures, but I don't like when they are virtually indistinguishable or have nothing unique about them in this fantasy setting, or feel exactly the same.
Also one thing I wonder. Didn't the names of Unther, Mulhorand, Murghom and Semphar all come from Ed Greenwood himself? I know he didn't design these places at all, but I just wonder if the names came from there. Because perhaps that means Ed has entirely different concepts of them in his personal campaigns, which would have been interesting to know about. I especially like the least European-esque regions in FR like Thay, Shining South and the Tashtan Coast. |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 21:42:36
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I believe the names do come from Ed, and he does have notes on those places for his home game. It's not that he didn't have a plan for them; it's that TSR chose to assign other writers to write the first products for those areas, and those authors consulted with Ed to varying degrees (probably not much in some cases). Once published, those books became canon.
And that's a risk inherent in a shared world. If we depended on one person to write Everything, it'd take forever. So it's great having many minds working on it. But sometimes a failure to poke Ed for details and ideas can result in a region that doesn't get much official development. Like the Old Empires for instance. |
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Semphar/Raurin Heritage
