| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 11:31:42
|
Fellow scribes,
I'm working on Aglarond for my home campaign and i would like to hear your opinion on the political situation in the country in the mid 1370s, both in the canonical Realms and in homebrew developments any of you experienced as a player or DM in Aglarond.
Below i will list some key points i'm interested in, but don't feel restrained by the list in any way:
- First things first, to detonate the fuse, the Simbul has to be temporarily removed from the table: Aglarond is full of potential with intrigues and backstabbings, separatist factions and suprematists of this or that race, but with the Simbul around and the Red Wizards officially at peace, everything is left hanging. No sane living being would dare move a finger because, unlike other Chosens or high-level spellcasters, the Simbul has no qualms just waltzing in and obliterating the opposition. Now, without necessarily creating threats of her caliber out of thin air, or making Red Wizards suicide against her again like in the past to keep her occupied, i think the nilshai are the perfect tool to keep her offstage. In canon the nilshai are clearly winning the fight against the star elves and are sending spies and scouts to Aglarond, plus they're the typical mysterious race of magical thingamajig with superpowerful ancient/elders/whatever leaders. So without blocking the possibility for my players and average Aglarondan NPCs to fight nilshai, i can have the Simbul locked in a "who has the bigger gun" contest against the elite of the nilshai, offstage, thus opening the way for internal strife without too much DM fiat in removing her from the action. Her deeds remain central to Aglarond's survival (and i don't have to bother with "boss battles" against the nilshai leaders) but keep her out of touch enough that various factions make their move and my players are caught in the crossfire.
- Both Altumbel and the Fang are noted as areas with nationalistic tendencies and high xenophobia, but unlike the Sons of Hoar the people that live there simply don't care who sits on the throne in Velprintalar, they want to be left alone. I'm considering the fact that as soon as s**t hits the fan and chaos engulfs Aglarond, the inhabitants of this two regions may try to overthrow any form of control structure imposed by the central government to assert their indipendence. This means being a foreigner or not being human may become extremely dangerous for a short time, any government officials coming from Aglarond will be killed or driven away while those born and raised in the region will be asked to step down or remain in charge but declare indipendence from Velprintalar. On the other hand, it's entirely possbile that as s**t hits the fan the people of Altumbel and the Fang may just grumble something about "stinky half-elves' and useless mainlanders' power struggles" and carry on fishing.
- The Sons of Hoar have huge influence in Aglarond; the absence of the Simbul, external threats (nilshai, undead/plant horrors from the Umber Marshes, fake Thayan invasion, ecc ...) and the rumors about more elves coming to live in their homeland (the star elves) may push them over the edge and start a bid for power. They hold a good share of economical power (probably most of it since they have the head of the Merchant's Guild) and are well infiltrated in the military and local power structures (through officers and local Lords). This means that with enough motivation they could start a full blown coup, even taking the Simbulmyn by surprise (it's noted that the Simbul "suspects many of the plots of the Sons of Hoar" so there's space for nasty surprises, especially if she's away). What's even more interesting is the fact that there are up to five factions inside the Sons of Hoar to mess things up even more, divided along two axis: there are the law-abiding mostly innocuous "humans-first" merchants/politicians and then the full-blown nazis and then there are the orthodox Hoarites, Hoarites influenced by Tyrran influence and those influenced by Sharrans. For me, this is the only reason why the Sons of Hoar can be stopped without the Simbul raining destruction, had they been a cohesive group, given the chance for a coup they would succeed. But with the group split up in so many ways, there are possibilities for meddlers to stop the more extremist factions by appealing to the reasonable guys/gals in the organization. Of course, a more crude approach that fails to discern the subtle divisions and targets key moderates Sons first may push the whole organization to the edge and spark full blown civil war. That's were the Verdant Arrows come in, i don't have much data on them but they seem more like a private club than a widespread organization, so the only role i can see for them is for guerrilla warfare against the Sons of Hoar (and anyone caught in the crossfire) as soon as the coup starts.
- The star elves are kind of the final sad note of the whole situation. I see them as doomed no matter what: they're losing the fight with the nilshai and getting killed left and right, their numbers are low and even if they somehow manage to survive and end the nilshai crisis in creative ways (i'm thinking something like shifting uncorrupted parts of Sildeyuir to the Yuirwood and seal the rest) they'll be a little group of elven refugees in a region of humans and half-elves, thus, with individual exceptions, the star elven race will be extinct in a few generations of intermingling since i really don't see elves creating breeding programs to save their subrace. There is the possibility of High Magic race/subrace changing rituals but who would subject him/herself to them? The half-elves of the region? They're half-wild-elves, with their ancestors left behind by the star elves. Random other elves? It seems unlikely, highly unlikely to happen in numbers needed to keep the subrace alive. Anyway the way i see the star elves VS nilshai situation is that the star elves decide to ask for help in Aglarond, make contact with scattered star elven refugees that ultimately get the voice to Captain Araevil Darkeye of Emmech, commander of the griffon-riders of the fort and only known star elf inside the Aglarondan government, that eventually will plea for help to the Simbul. She will be motivated to help by random nilshai attacks inside Aglarond, friendship with elves and boredom. Cue escalation of warfare between Aglarond and the nilshai, fielding of the big guns and an ethereal expedition to kill the enemy leadeship that will take the Simbul away from home long enough to let other things happen.
Scattered questions:
- i have foggy memories of the end of one of the Elminster books with bloodshed in Aglarond's court, the dead villains are just random unnamed mooks, right? No "leader of the Sons of Hoar" killed?
- did the star elves worship in full or in part the ancient Yuirwood pantheon? I could cook something up with Zandilar's aspect of Sharess but i'm unsure if the star elves had any link with the faith of their wild cousins.
- is there any source of any edition that says what caster level is needed to make a dracolich? In Aglarond there's a 7th level necromancer of the Cult of the Dragon but i think it's not enough to turn Nartheling into a dracolich, right?
Thanks everyone!
|
Edited by - Demzer on 23 Mar 2015 11:32:38
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2015 : 20:12:02
|
Here's what I can say without my books handy:
The Simbul left very specific instructions on what should happen to the government of Aglarond should she disappear again. The Silent Chosen has frequently taken over as the major magical defender of the realm in the Simbul's absence as well.
The threat of the nilshai was underplayed IMO. I think that they should have seen more 'screentime'.
The Sons of Hoar were still major players in Aglarond during 4th edition.
The star elves did worship the Yuir pantheon but they were since (apart from Zandilar) all absorbed into the Seldarine. This did not, however, mean the worship of those gods was entirely replaced (there was an 'official' RPGA campaign involving a yuir cult for LFR) and also, remember that the yuir gods were originally worshiped by primitive humans. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
Edited by - hashimashadoo on 23 Mar 2015 20:14:29 |
 |
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 00:21:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
They hold a good share of economical power (probably most of it since they have the head of the Merchant's Guild)
If it depends on one high-profile dude and there's a major unrest... isn't this an invitation to rivals and old enemies looking for an opportunity?
quote:
there are up to five factions inside the Sons of Hoar to mess things up even more, divided along two axis: there are the law-abiding mostly innocuous "humans-first" merchants/politicians and then the full-blown nazis
There are socialists? Where? 
quote:
and then there are the orthodox Hoarites, Hoarites influenced by Tyrran influence and those influenced by Sharrans. For me, this is the only reason why the Sons of Hoar can be stopped without the Simbul raining destruction, had they been a cohesive group, given the chance for a coup they would succeed. But with the group split up in so many ways, there are possibilities for meddlers to stop the more extremist factions by appealing to the reasonable guys/gals in the organization.
Hoarites as such also are kind of by definition focused on grudges and vendettas. Which isn't conducive to teaming up, especially between the factions that got in a spat.
quote:
- The star elves are kind of the final sad note of the whole situation. [...] their numbers are low and even if they somehow manage to survive and end the nilshai crisis [...] they'll be a little group of elven refugees in a region of humans and half-elves, thus, with individual exceptions, the star elven race will be extinct in a few generations of intermingling since i really don't see elves creating breeding programs to save their subrace.
They don't need breeding programs, they only need to continue act like, well, elves.
Of course, for the same reason they may get into troubles with any or all other faction, plus the old gods.
quote:
Anyway the way i see the star elves VS nilshai situation is that the star elves decide to ask for help in Aglarond, make contact with scattered star elven refugees that ultimately get the voice to Captain Araevil Darkeye of Emmech, commander of the griffon-riders of the fort and only known star elf inside the Aglarondan government, that eventually will plea for help to the Simbul.
Assuming they are capable of acting adequately more than geniuses from Evermeet in "Return of the Archwizards".
On the one eyestalk, star elves didn't wallow in backwater superiority for centuries. On the other eyestalk, they weren't in position to deal much with anyone at all, while Evermeet at least is not sealed up (for elves).
On the third eyestalk, they did run off in the first place.
quote:
She will be motivated to help by random nilshai attacks inside Aglarond, friendship with elves and boredom. Cue escalation of warfare between Aglarond and the nilshai, fielding of the big guns and an ethereal expedition to kill the enemy leadeship that will take the Simbul away from home long enough to let other things happen.
Why would nilshai bother to continue after star elves are kicked out of the demiplane, or it's destroyed?
quote:
- did the star elves worship in full or in part the ancient Yuirwood pantheon? I could cook something up with Zandilar's aspect of Sharess but i'm unsure if the star elves had any link with the faith of their wild cousins.
"In addition to their reverence for the Seldarine, the ancient Yuir elves worshiped a pantheon of forgotten gods that apparently vanished with the decline of the Yuir." (Spellbound)
Ooh, another thought!
1) Those gods are not in Seldarine.
2) Modern elves kind of acknowledge that the only substantial difference between the dark elves and Vyshaan is that the former deviated from veneration and Seldarine, while the latter didn't. Most of them apparently think Vyshaan were better and are okay with the ensuing development, even though the elvenkind never recovered from it.
So... is the only goal of the Elven Crusade there to be a dog in the manger to Vhaerunites in Cormanthyr (and whine that the world didn't stop when they just stepped outside for a few elven generation, perhaps) - or also moving an army toward Yuir "just in case"?.. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 11:47:20
|
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
The Simbul left very specific instructions on what should happen to the government of Aglarond should she disappear again. The Silent Chosen has frequently taken over as the major magical defender of the realm in the Simbul's absence as well.
I know, the point here is that she plans a raid and to be back in a few hours, like she always do when she goes smiting foes. But this time the foes are multicasting alien thingamajigs so she spends considerably more time offscreen. After a day or two things will blow up, the Simbul instructions notwithstanding (unless she left "kill A, B, ... and Z if i'm not home for dinner" as instructions in which A, B, ... and Z are Sons of Hoar and other enemy agents, and even then, there is the chance she didn't catch them all or that the Simbulmyn aren't as effective as they think they are). Concerning the Silent Chosen (and any other Chosen) i think i can safely say that if the Simbul is in danger or MIA in the ethereal plane then there's where all other Mystra's Power Rangers will go.
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
The threat of the nilshai was underplayed IMO. I think that they should have seen more 'screentime'.
Well, in 3E terms the nilshai are like phaerimms that cast 2 spells per round so, they should've been treated accordingly (not that i like all this whacky tentacled things running amok, but once you establish them as mayor players somewhere then use them).
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
If it depends on one high-profile dude and there's a major unrest... isn't this an invitation to rivals and old enemies looking for an opportunity?
It's just one of the most prominent and in a position of power inside Aglarondan government, most of the merchant families of Aglarond are human and many of them actively support the Sons of Hoar.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Hoarites as such also are kind of by definition focused on grudges and vendettas. Which isn't conducive to teaming up, especially between the factions that got in a spat.
Not really, it's noted in Unapproachable East that they follow a more ancient aspect of Hoar that emphasizes Law, Justice and Noble War (whatever it is) over Vengeance. So many of the innocuous Sons are interested in making Aglarond a place where having pointy ears or being able to cast spells doesn't make you automatically better then others (which is something reasonable in itself).
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
They don't need breeding programs, they only need to continue act like, well, elves.
Of course, for the same reason they may get into troubles with any or all other faction, plus the old gods.
Well if i remember how elven reproduction works, if they mix with humans you get half-elves, if they mix with the half-elves you get half-elves or a new subrace of elves (since the Cha'Tel'Quessir of Aglarond are half-wild-elves) and if they mix with other elven subraces you only have 50% chance to get another star elf. Since there already are very few star elves around either they start doing very selective breeding among themselves to rise their numbers or they're going to fade away as a subrace (with a few star elves here and there). All of this barring any divine shenaningans like "you sleep with a star elf, you birth a star elf".
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why would nilshai bother to continue after star elves are kicked out of the demiplane, or it's destroyed?
Nilshai are already creating problems in Aglarond proper and if the star elves plea for help then the fight would still be in Sildeyuir and Aglarond would help them there, the Nilshai would notice increased resistance and step up their game, ecc ... .
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
"In addition to their reverence for the Seldarine, the ancient Yuir elves worshiped a pantheon of forgotten gods that apparently vanished with the decline of the Yuir." (Spellbound)
Ah thanks for the reference, i remember reading something like that but wasn't sure where i read it.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Ooh, another thought!
1) Those gods are not in Seldarine.
2) Modern elves kind of acknowledge that the only substantial difference between the dark elves and Vyshaan is that the former deviated from veneration and Seldarine, while the latter didn't. Most of them apparently think Vyshaan were better and are okay with the ensuing development, even though the elvenkind never recovered from it.
So... is the only goal of the Elven Crusade there to be a dog in the manger to Vhaerunites in Cormanthyr (and whine that the world didn't stop when they just stepped outside for a few elven generation, perhaps) - or also moving an army toward Yuir "just in case"?..
1) Kinda, Rillifane subsumed both Relkath and Magnar and there is some confusion if Elikarashae was subsumed by Shevarash or some other elven god/demigod or simply faded away;
2) Interesting viewpoint, i need to reread the scene with Alustriel and the Simbul with elven representatives in The Simbul's Gift, i got the distinct impression that the major subraces of elvenkind wanted nothing to do with the Yuirwood, probably because of such religious differences. Anyway in my home campaign there was no phaerimm war or crusade to Evereska, the elves stopped the Retreat, contingents from Evermeet are helping random stray elves all around Faerun and there is an elven expedition in Cormanthor slowly eradicating Vhaerunite presence and reclaiming Myth Drannor one cobblestone at a time. |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 17:30:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
If it depends on one high-profile dude and there's a major unrest... isn't this an invitation to rivals and old enemies looking for an opportunity?
It's just one of the most prominent and in a position of power inside Aglarondan government, most of the merchant families of Aglarond are human and many of them actively support the Sons of Hoar.
Well, yes. The point is, the part where high-ups are natural magnets for opposition - and in unrest times, armed opposition - applies iteratively.
quote:
Not really, it's noted in Unapproachable East that they follow a more ancient aspect of Hoar that emphasizes Law, Justice and Noble War (whatever it is) over Vengeance.
Ah, yes. Then again, this invites split by sects once they'll become notorious outside. It also doesn't help that some of locals are merchants, while others don't like foreigners on a general principle.
quote:
So many of the innocuous Sons are interested in making Aglarond a place where having pointy ears or being able to cast spells doesn't make you automatically better then others (which is something reasonable in itself).
Well, yes, but such things go overboard in better cases...
So even if the situation stabilizes, wizards would object, or at least not cooperate until absolutely necessary - and this creates some power vacuum.
It's not immediately disastrous now that the Red Wizards became more or less peaceful... but how about their old enemies looking for a foothold in Aglarond they couldn't hope to get earlier?
quote:
Well if i remember how elven reproduction works, if they mix with humans you get half-elves, if they mix with the half-elves you get half-elves or a new subrace of elves (since the Cha'Tel'Quessir of Aglarond are half-wild-elves)
Elf + Half-elf -> Elf. There were mentions of elves with visible traces of human blood, too.
quote:
and if they mix with other elven subraces you only have 50% chance to get another star elf.
Yup.
quote:
Since there already are very few star elves around either they start doing very selective breeding among themselves to rise their numbers or they're going to fade away as a subrace (with a few star elves here and there).
Does not necessarily follow. It's still 1:1. Also, selection may be introduced at a later stage. Consider this: if wanderlust of Silver elves is an inherited subrace trait, rather than a cultural habit (lore is blurry on this, IIRC), it have to (unless there's a strong factor negating it) have this effect - if Silver and Mithral elves are born 1:1, but many Silver elves just drift away, the resulting ratio back at home favors Mithral offspring.
Elfochromatography! 
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why would nilshai bother to continue after star elves are kicked out of the demiplane, or it's destroyed?
Nilshai are already creating problems in Aglarond proper and if the star elves plea for help then the fight would still be in Sildeyuir and Aglarond would help them there, the Nilshai would notice increased resistance and step up their game, ecc ...
Why they would? The issue here is the reason for war.
As it is, Nilshai see the foothold of an aggressive Prime race (they had to at least know what elves are), and also a source of magic loot, so they raid it.
If they could reverse the situation so that the gates give them better access to a Prime world and more good loot - so much better. But if they cannot (gates are shut or destroyed) - this leaves Yuir as... but one area in one Prime world that happens to be more alert and prepared to fend them off than almost any other place on the whole plane - so what's the point to bother?
Some impersonal vendetta out of never previously mentioned motivations? "For the Evulz"?
quote:
1) Kinda, Rillifane subsumed both Relkath and Magnar and there is some confusion if Elikarashae was subsumed by Shevarash or some other elven god/demigod or simply faded away;
This isn't discrete "either-or" or irreversible situation, especially if there's something remains not quite sucked dry and there are still some followers.
E.g. there's that Angharradh sect and the three component goddesses are still alive and well. I wonder how do the Avariel feel about this one, BTW. Or how they will, once Someone Very Helpful points them at this and at the lore relevant to absorption of divinities. People keen and fair are everywhere, and all that. 
quote:
or crusade to Evereska, the elves stopped the Retreat, contingents from Evermeet are helping random stray elves all around Faerun and there is an elven expedition in Cormanthor slowly eradicating Vhaerunite presence and reclaiming Myth Drannor one cobblestone at a time.
I meant the one against Vhaerunites, of course.
The Evereska campaign was more of "an ill-conceived rescue expedition", IMO. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 21:46:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Well, yes. The point is, the part where high-ups are natural magnets for opposition - and in unrest times, armed opposition - applies iteratively.
Well, the fact is that unless the Simbulmyn have express orders to constrain/kill the Sons of Hoar, it's this latter group that has the initiative in civil unrest. Even the Verdant Arrows aren't much and it's noted that the Sons of Hoar know many members of this half-elven group, not the other way around. So armed opposition to the Sons of Hoar will suffer from coming second in the initiative order.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Well, yes, but such things go overboard in better cases...
So even if the situation stabilizes, wizards would object, or at least not cooperate until absolutely necessary - and this creates some power vacuum.
It's not immediately disastrous now that the Red Wizards became more or less peaceful... but how about their old enemies looking for a foothold in Aglarond they couldn't hope to get earlier?
Eh, yes i never said the Sons of Hoar could succeed in the coup, neither i said that they could create a "better Aglarond". But this won't stop them from trying.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Elf + Half-elf -> Elf. There were mentions of elves with visible traces of human blood, too.
That's the part that confuses me, since the Cha'Tel'Quessir are half-elves with elven ancestors of wild elven subrace, while star elves are another subrace. So the elf son of a star elf and a half-wild-elf is? A star elf? A wild elf? A wildstar/starwild shiny new subrace?
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Why they would? The issue here is the reason for war.
As it is, Nilshai see the foothold of an aggressive Prime race (they had to at least know what elves are), and also a source of magic loot, so they raid it.
If they could reverse the situation so that the gates give them better access to a Prime world and more good loot - so much better. But if they cannot (gates are shut or destroyed) - this leaves Yuir as... but one area in one Prime world that happens to be more alert and prepared to fend them off than almost any other place on the whole plane - so what's the point to bother?
Some impersonal vendetta out of never previously mentioned motivations? "For the Evulz"?
Nope, as i said, the whole point is for the star elves to ask and receive help while they're still holding Sildeyuir. If the nilshai already completely won, then there isn't much for Aglarond to do except to accept the very few refugees that came through and shut the gates. I would like for the action to take place before such an extreme conclusion. With the fight still in Sildeyuir (and some nilshai occasionally wandering into Faerun proper) the nilshai will still have their original plan of conquest/destruction/plunder of the demiplane. After the intervention of the Aglarondan forces they will step up the aggression, this will provoke the direct intervention of the Simbul and her best Simbulmyn agents. This will lead to a series of hit and run skirmishes and raids on the ethereal plane to shut the nilshai portals and kill their leaders while the star elves find a way to evacuate/move Sildeyuir or parts of it.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
This isn't discrete "either-or" or irreversible situation, especially if there's something remains not quite sucked dry and there are still some followers.
Yes i know, it's exactly what happened in The Simbul's Gift which btw (i reread the relevant passages) shows the Evermeet elves clearly looking down upon the Yuirwood gods, they're actually quite enraged at the universally accepted Zandilar-Vhaerun story, and passages of the book tell of the Seldarine clearly containing and subsuming the Yuir gods on purpose (the whole inner/outer circle thing), to claim the territory and try to reclaim the elves of the forest (in vain it seems, since the star elves retreated into Sildeyuir while the wild elves got extinct). In the part with the Simbul talks to her namesake deity, the deity clearly states that the Seldarine let them chose which Seldarine god to became part of, not if they could stay free. Also the Evermeet elves speak about the Yuirwood as "half-done thing" and unfinished business. The impression i get overall is that whatever happens in the Yuirwood, whatever the Seldarine may think, the elves of Evermeet won't be too happy about their eastern cousins.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
I meant the one against Vhaerunites, of course.
The Evereska campaign was more of "an ill-conceived rescue expedition", IMO.
Ah sorry, my elven-fu is weak, i thought the Cormanthyr crusade was just the continuation of the struggle against the fey'ri started with the (second) siege of Evereska. |
Edited by - Demzer on 24 Mar 2015 21:54:53 |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 15:24:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Ha, there's a related answer in "Questions for Ed Greenwood" already.
Kinda, i'm more interested in how the star elves can get out of their dire straits then on what they will do afterward (since if and how they resolve their nilshai problems weights heavily on their capability for diplomacy, warfare and expansion afterward). |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 01:00:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Kinda, i'm more interested in how the star elves can get out of their dire straits then on what they will do afterward (since if and how they resolve their nilshai problems weights heavily on their capability for diplomacy, warfare and expansion afterward).
The issues intersects, especially in the part about how they will interact with Aglarond - even assuming they won't go the stupid way.
This strongly affects their relations with others, too. There are those who are tired and want some peace, who feel vengeful or think Red Wizards are enemies anyway and just being sneaky now, who want to be seen leading the neighbours in war, who fear more outlanders barging in... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 18:38:11
|
| If they're starting in the mid 1370s, they'd better get a move on. They only have a decade before all their menhirs become foci for Spellplague energies. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 20:57:06
|
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
They only have a decade before all their menhirs become foci for Spellplague energies.
Not in my backya... err ... campaign. |
|
|
|
Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 21:18:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
The issues intersects, especially in the part about how they will interact with Aglarond - even assuming they won't go the stupid way.
This strongly affects their relations with others, too. There are those who are tired and want some peace, who feel vengeful or think Red Wizards are enemies anyway and just being sneaky now, who want to be seen leading the neighbours in war, who fear more outlanders barging in...
The problems are in the premises. For the 2006 Q&A, i don't remember exactly what was the canonical situation at that time (meaning which sourcebooks/novels/adventures were already released), but the premise was that the star elves did get out of Sildeyuir, as a coordinated, organized force to be reckoned with. By the end of the 3E published materials, it clearly appears this is NOT the case. The star elves are losing, badly. Each source dealing with Sildeyuir details the place as devoid of life, quickly being overrun by the nilshai and their corruption, and star elves secluded in little groups in small isolated fortified villas:
- Galaeron Nimhedu (spelling) promised to get back to help in The Last Threshold and then disappeared into northern glaciers (think it's in the GHotR);
- in Stardeep the supposedly elite order of anti-aberration space fighters wipes out itself, besides they lived isolated from the rest of Sildeyuir and yet nilshai are pressing on their doors too;
- in The Twilight Tomb the players don't even meet a single star elves, just mercenaries from Toril under the command of a nilshai;
- in all sources Sildeyuir is beautyful but empty, large parts of it are corrupted and devastated and entire star elven enclaves go missing without leaving even traces of struggle, and the nilshai are so bold they're starting forays into Toril (start of The Twilight Tomb and 1376 in GHotR if i'm not mistaken).
All this doesn't leads logically to "Star elves get out of Sildeyuir and devastate Aglarond" or "Star elves get out of Sildeyuir and stomp the Red Wizards" without heavy rewriting or behind-the-scenes events we don't know anything of yet. In canon 4E Sildeyuir is completely corrupted and star elves are gone if i'm not mistaken.
So my problem is that those answers don't mesh with the situation on paper for my campaign (which so far is just canon facts added together). |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 21:36:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
They only have a decade before all their menhirs become foci for Spellplague energies.
Ah, but what if they were somehow able to act quickly enough to harness and channel those energies? Some potential for fun, there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 01:02:09
|
Star elves were never gone. They did get a (VERY) brief mention in 4e materials and Erik Scott de Bie tried to get an article on them published for Dragon Magazine but it never got published.
The emphasis in 4e was definitely on making subraces the prerogative of individual DMs. In the FR, sun elves, moon elves, dark elves and star elves were all 'eladrin' (and please, don't let us get started on how bad an idea that was) while wood elves and wild elves remained 'elves'. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 02:44:33
|
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
The problems are in the premises. For the 2006 Q&A, i don't remember exactly what was the canonical situation at that time (meaning which sourcebooks/novels/adventures were already released), but the premise was that the star elves did get out of Sildeyuir, as a coordinated, organized force to be reckoned with. By the end of the 3E published materials, it clearly appears this is NOT the case. The star elves are losing, badly.
[...]
- in all sources Sildeyuir is beautyful but empty, large parts of it are corrupted and devastated and entire star elven enclaves go missing without leaving even traces of struggle, and the nilshai are so bold they're starting forays into Toril (start of The Twilight Tomb and 1376 in GHotR if i'm not mistaken).
All this doesn't leads logically to "Star elves get out of Sildeyuir and devastate Aglarond" or "Star elves get out of Sildeyuir and stomp the Red Wizards" without heavy rewriting or behind-the-scenes events we don't know anything of yet.
This allows "Star elves managed to cut their losses and evacuate from Sildeyuir".
That they aren't the biggest fish is obvious, for the same reason as Retreat to the fairy island: granted, they at least were able to make a proper demiplane, but if they were all that tough, they simply won't have to leave. And now they are kicked out of a demiplane of their own creation.
But then, there can be a lot of magically strong survivors, and if they agree with local factions, this seriously changes balance of power.
I see other source of hilarity here. They obviously need to assemble allies. And who's the oldest enemy of Thay?..
The elves of Yuirwood know well of Mulhorand and cannot have very fond memories of it, but don't remember all details - and after all, they used to fight with Unther, and Mulhorand is in perpetual cold war with those, too. Thus, on both counts the enemy of my enemy... is.... Oh, they'l learn.
So, the elven delegation is sent to the God-Emperor Pharaoh.
1) Vast Imperial Bureaucracy. Elves may not be impatient, but that's still annoying.
2) These guys threw out all xeno scum nonhumans long ago. Elves now are, at best, distrusted, gawked upon and need papers to pass. But local bureaucrats hate Red wizards, so once they hear the purpose of visit they get happy enough to cut some corners.
3) Let's take a look as we go. Wizardry is kind of developed, but it belongs to the church of Thoth, so what they can do is... state secret! All right, we understand - they got Red Wizards for neighbours...
4) Slavery. Yes, yes. But nothing new, and at least it's not as bad as in Thay, and hey, if that's kept between hu... Chained decorative Aarakocra slaves proudly displayed as a sign of status. What.
|
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Situation in Aglarond (3E - mid 1370s)
