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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 04 Feb 2015 : 21:22:25
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This isn't a known issue I've had to deal with as of yet. But it certainly makes me wonder. And honestly, I'm not even sure it is an issue.
Ok, the problem is a locked door. Wooden, stone, metal doesn't really matter. By and large, they will all have hinges right?
So the rogue fails the lock pick check and the warrior fails to bash the door open. What's the next step? Personally, a crowbar, hacksaw, chisel (or whatever works as a screwdriver in the Realms) hammer should open just about any door right? Just smash, saw, or hammer the hinges off, pop the hinge pin out etc. Boom, door falls open and maybe falls on a PC if they're not paying attention. ;)
If that doesn't work, there's always the sledge for stone doors. Or smash the frame around the door out. Cave-ins and monster gauntlets forming on the other side of the door aside, the above mentioned tools should work for most anything short of magic or adamantite doors.
Anyone ever run into this?
And since we're speaking of doors, what types of designs are common in the Realms? I had always assumed the classic door hinge on the outside is the norm. And also makes me wonder if dwarves invest in rebar reinforced doors, with large slide bars of metal like a bank would use for their vaults.
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Edited by - Eilserus on 04 Feb 2015 21:23:18
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2015 : 21:27:52
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That won't work too well if the hinges are on the other side of the door -- as they would be if the door opens away from the PCs, which will be frequent when accessing locked rooms (doors usually open into a room).
Additionally, we've had references to other types of mechanisms, such as a pivot of some sort. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 04 Feb 2015 21:28:16 |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2015 : 21:37:56
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Omg I can't believe I didn't think of that! What a derp moment for me. hehehe
In my defense I was looking at our basement door. Not the outside entry doors. ;) |
Edited by - Eilserus on 04 Feb 2015 21:46:07 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1268 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2015 : 21:42:46
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I've always run with the idea that anything strong enough to bust down a door has a chance of weakening the doorway's structural integrity. Sure, you can bash in the door. But if that doorway (which is generally the weakest point in the wall) collapses, what happens if you want out? What if what's on the other side of the door is being kept behind locked doors for good reason?
A couple good runs of "I pop the hinges, now what?" "Now you've unleashed the Big Bad Thing, don't you wish you could close the door?" and I don't have to "worry" about the PC's just plowing through said obstacles. Their own paranoia keeps them from it.
As far as door types, I've always gone with humans building your standard wooden door on hinges. Dwarves have sliding stone doors, Elves tend more towards curtains and more ornate versions of wooden doors. Halflings... well, they have the best locks. (If unwanted relatives are coming over, they'll have a challenge getting in) but tend towards round, rolling doors (like a sliding door, but round.) |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2015 : 00:49:15
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The House Do'Urden compound in Menzoberranzan has a two-piece mithral and adamantine gate on hinges.
Mithral Hall has great doors of mithral and granite mounted on hinges.
Wulfgar busted through a vertically-sliding, thatched, iron gate in the sewers beneath Pasha Pook's guildhouse in Calimport, triggering another iron gate which trapped him in a cubby hole with a hydra. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2015 : 05:02:56
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Oh doors can be built with pivot points instead of hinges.
Breaking a door clearly is always an option not matter how it is secured against lock picking or finding a weak area of the door attachments. The default concept was that if a party did not get though a door quickly monsters or defenders would respond to the noise of trying to break that the party would need to fight or flee. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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JohnLynch
Learned Scribe
Australia
243 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2015 : 07:27:39
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There is no door known to Man that will stop a suitably determined person from getting to the other side. Doors are intended to stop the average person from trying to get in or delay someone long enough for another mechanism (likely a person) to realise someone's trying to get into an area and then do something about the would be intruders.
Imagine a city wrecked by devastation and an entire district quarantined, fenced off and heavily guarded. This Forgotten Realms adventure expected you to bluff your way past the guard or climb the wall. Now imagine a team of dwarves with no real deadline provided with a basement in a nearby abandoned building. Sure it might take a few weeks (depending how far you tunnelled in), but without a deadline who cares. Adventurers 1, Gate 0. |
DM of the Realms: A blog for my Forgotten Realms adventures. |
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Misereor
Learned Scribe
164 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2015 : 10:09:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
This isn't a known issue I've had to deal with as of yet. But it certainly makes me wonder. And honestly, I'm not even sure it is an issue.
Not much of one.
Given unlimited time, a first level adventuring party can pickaxe their way through the stone wall next to the door. Higher level parties can use Stone Shape, Transmute Rock to Mud or Disintegrate spells to blast their way through.
In short, doors are much like castles. They may represent large investments of time and resources, but they aren't worth a damn unless you have someone guarding them. Smoething that should be taken into account when designing challenges.
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What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition. |
Edited by - Misereor on 05 Feb 2015 10:16:56 |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2015 : 03:31:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus... Ok, the problem is a locked door. Wooden, stone, metal doesn't really matter. By and large, they will all have hinges right?
So the rogue fails the lock pick check and the warrior fails to bash the door open. What's the next step?...
This is just an issue of time and consequences. If the PCs are all by themselves and there is no consequence to their getting past the obstacle in the next 10 seconds or the next 10 months then there is no need to even roll dice - they get through and that should be the GM's automatic response. The rogue takes 20 on lockpicking or the muscly PCs combine their efforts on a makeshift battering ram. It will be noisy and take some time but they will get in. Don't even waste time rolling dice.
Only if there is a consequence of failure should dice be rolled. The players loitering on one side of the obstacle being in a situation of growing danger for each second that passes is when dice should be rolled (i.e., caught in a water trap where the room is filling with water and the only way to escape is through the locked door). The amount of noise being made and the time before eventual discovery are other factors to consider for having the players roll dice.
The greatest weakness built into a wall is a portal, whether that be for a door or a window. Any force that can punch a hole through the wall will blow through a door even if it is just the frame around the door giving away before the door's structural integrity could be compromised. Metal bends, stone breaks, and wood splinters. No material withstands a determined invader that has time and ingenuity as resources. Misereor and JohnLynch had it correct that it is the active defenses that make locked doors effective where otherwise they are slight annoyances to those they mean to keep out.
The stages for non-magically opening a door are proper pass using the appropriate key device, tricking the mechanism through a fake key (lock picking), bursting the locking mechanism, forcing the hinges to buckle, destroying the doors integrity, and breaking the door out of the wall. That is also the order from least noisy and least time consuming to most with the only exception being the order of lockpicking and bursting the locking mechanism as the latter is faster than the former but a great deal louder. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Smashing down doors
