Candlekeep Forum
Candlekeep Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Forgotten Realms Products
 Forgotten Realms Novels
 Just finished the Sentinel...
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 11 Jan 2015 :  20:13:49  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I just finished the Sentinel by Troy Denning. My thoughts:

1. I think Troy's book was hurt by how short it was page count wise. Almost all of my concerns were about issues that provided the book was longer, Mr. Denning could have adequately developed.

2. The relationship between joelle and Ariette was woefully underdeveloped, almost to the point of being "blink and you'll miss it".

3. Likewise with the villains, woefully underdeveloped.

4. There wan't much plot and the ending was super rushed.

5. Some problems I had that aren't length related: Given what he does to betray them, It looks like the only reason Malik wasn't slain was because he had "plot immunity" because he was an author/fan favorite character. That's a little lame.
The second issue is the deptiction of Love via what Joelle does just skirts saying Love is brainwashing and exploitative.
I find that questionable and honsetly, kinda offensive.

Overall I thought it was an enjoyable book that done better might have been awesome. The kernals of good stuff are there they just never "popped" to mix a metaphor...

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  18:25:12  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Joelle wasn't just brainwashing and exploiting people, she raped Arietta. There was no buildup of any deeper feelings beyond friendship. Joelle finally becomes desperate to find a "willing" self-sacrifice for Sune, and uses her Chosen-empowered "love" charm to seduce Arietta.

So yeah, rape in a Realms novel - where the attacker is theoretically a servant of a good goddess.

Probably the lowest point yet for Realms novels. It was sickening, not just for being there but also because it was glossed over. Was it meant to be "edgy" or progressive because it was lesbian sex? Did the author not realize that this was rape?

Honestly, I will never read another novel by him ever again.

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  19:51:27  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I don't remember exactly that part of the book, but calling it rape seems to be a gross exaggeration.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  19:57:25  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas

I don't remember exactly that part of the book, but calling it rape seems to be a gross exaggeration.


It's not an exaggeration in any way.

If someone slips you a drug that interferes with your reasoning, then "convinces" you to have gay sex (when you've never considered being gay), and THEN wants you to commit suicide as a self-sacrifice for "love" - well, we'd call it rape with an intent to kill.

This exact same thing happened between Joella and Arietta, except that instead of a drug Joelle used a Chosen-empowered "love" charm effect.

Same thing.

There was no actual sex scene, but it wasn't implied. It was stated quite clearly that they had sex, and Arielle was confused by the entire thing.

It was rape. It was glossed over.

What was the author thinking, seriously? Where was the editor?



"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 12 Jan 2015 19:59:10
Go to Top of Page

Eilserus
Master of Realmslore

USA
1446 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  21:38:22  Show Profile Send Eilserus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Exaggeration.

Charm magic doesn't work for self destructive acts.

The Nine Hells would freeze over before any of the Sundering authors would sabotage the relaunch of the Realms. Not. Going. To. Happen.

Edited by - Eilserus on 12 Jan 2015 21:40:18
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  22:03:48  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus

Exaggeration.

Charm magic doesn't work for self destructive acts.

The Nine Hells would freeze over before any of the Sundering authors would sabotage the relaunch of the Realms. Not. Going. To. Happen.


This wasn't ordinary charm magic. The novel takes time to point out that Joelle's charm was empowered by her status as Sune's Chosen. Only another Chosen, supposedly, could resist the magic of this special super-charm effect. Kleef could, because he was a Chosen of Helm. Arielle thought she was Chosen of Siamorphe - and she may have become one later (or not), but at that time with Joelle she was not. Arielle had no power to resist the Chosen-empowered charm.

And hey, I get that people are in denial. But it's there, in print. It happened. No one wants to think about rape happening in their neighborhood or to their family.

We don't want to think something like this would happen in our much-loved Realms. We certainly don't want it to happen or believe that it could happen in a novel written for teens and young adults.

Did the author or the editor intend to write a rape into the novel? I don't know. Given the poor writing and continuity gaffes of Realms novels generally, it's certainly possible that the author didn't intend it and that an editor didn't catch it.

But whatever the case was, it's there in print.

Denial won't help.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer
Go to Top of Page

Mirtek
Senior Scribe

595 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  22:40:32  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One could always chalk it up to the influence of Cyric through his chosen. He got Tyr to duel Helm to death, slowly twisting the minds of a chosen of Sune is childs play compared to that.

Edited by - Mirtek on 12 Jan 2015 22:41:07
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 12 Jan 2015 :  22:55:00  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

One could always chalk it up to the influence of Cyric through his chosen. He got Tyr to duel Helm to death, slowly twisting the minds of a chosen of Sune is childs play compared to that.


I agree - if this had been a theme in the book, it would've been a much better book. If Malik had been explicitly shown using some dark magic to twist Joelle's mind, even slowly and subtly over time, it would have lent some kind of sense to Joelle's primary motivation and goal.

Unfortunately, we didn't have any kind of reveal like that. I mean, we're supposed to believe that the goddess of love requires a suicide-sacrifice motivated by forced charm magic? Joelle certainly believes this of her goddess, not even questioning the morality of it even for a second. That's some seriously poor writing.

The entire book, Joelle comes across as incredibly selfish, extremely manipulative, and committed to forcing one of her companions into suicide by using an irresistible magic charm on them. She's supposed to be a good-aligned character? No, I don't think so.

The OP is right. Even if people completely gloss over the rape, that entire theme of Sune demanding a suicide-sacrifice is just outright offensive.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 12 Jan 2015 22:59:21
Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  00:08:09  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hold a sec here....I didn't say anything about rape.
Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  00:32:03  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan

Hold a sec here....I didn't say anything about rape.


You said that what Joelle was doing, supposedly in the name of love, was "kinda offensive" and "brainwashing" and I agree. I don't think I was mischaracterizing your statement.

I brought up the rape. I said that even if people didn't see the rape for what it was, I still agreed with you that Joelle's behavior -generally- was offensive throughout the rest of the book.


"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 13 Jan 2015 00:34:40
Go to Top of Page

Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  06:22:48  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This sounds crazy. They suppress smoking pipeweed and then this? I don't want to support this kind of crap, but, really? I almost have to read it for myself.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

Go to Top of Page

BenN
Senior Scribe

Japan
382 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  08:00:57  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
They suppress smoking pipeweed

They do? Is that official WoTC policy now? No doubt Elminster is getting especially crotchety, if he's been forced to give it up!
Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  12:39:41  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Soemthing that we need to be mindful of in discussion is the distinction between our interpretation as readers and what the writer actually says.
Go to Top of Page

Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 13 Jan 2015 :  20:01:35  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

I almost have to read it for myself.



Yeah, I think that really is the best option.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2015 :  01:19:27  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, back to the book. Anyone else note anything?
I thought it was interesting that a romance between an orcish goddess and a primordial was used as catelyst for the adventure and for some of the 5E Realms restorations.
I'm not sure it entirely worked but it was an interesting choice.
With some developed orc NPCs this could have worked much better I think.
Go to Top of Page

Demzer
Senior Scribe

873 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2015 :  17:07:43  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So, i suppose it's obvious this thread contains spoilers but i'll warn anyway.


SPOILER WARNING!!!










The Sentinel ... uhm ... before anyone calls me out, i'll confess, i hate Malik, his comedic relationship with Cyric and the free passes he always gets, but despite Malik the book wasn't bad. I still have some problems with the plot but overall i enjoyed the book and wasn't disgusted like the last time i read about Malik (Trial of Prince Waddyaknow I'm The Best).
Onto my problems with the lore/plot of the novel:
1) Cyric: wasn't he confined somewhere for eons to come? Beside Helm that resurrects in this novel, Cyric is the only one appearing and giving the instakill dagger of doom to Malik ... how? Did the gods forget to lock the cell?
2) Cyric and Sune: by the end of the Trial, Sune hated Cyric with a passion unbound for what he had done to K&M's relationship, plus she saw firsthand Malik, and when someone named Malik el Sami yn Nasser showed up to help Joelle she doesn't warn her Chosen about the possibility of him being the Seraph of Lies instead of being a Chosen of Myrkul? So even if she is a greater goddess, even if she knows Malik and Cyric, even if Cyric should be imprisoned, Sune gets deceived so easily that Malik can keep his real name too?
3) Kelemvor: and in all this gods drama, with Malik on the edge of the Fugue, we never ever see a glimpse of Kelemvor or of his followers. The Eye of Gruumsh was like a super powerful radio beacon for everything with intellect on Toril, and it spent way more time in the Fugue, and Kelemvor was where exactly? I understand not wanting the gods to show up on Toril (except Cyric, obviously), but on the Fugue? In his home turf? Did Kelemvor enjoy Gruumsh's presence?
4) Malik's lie: ok, even if somehow Sune was unable or unwilling to tell Joelle who Malik served, did everyone fail their Intelligence check when confronted with a Chosen of Myrkul whose only power was disappearing from sight [the smell and retrieving an item from an extradimensional space aren't really all that great as powers, since it was only his word that the tunic led to the Fugue]? Did they really had to wait for him to yell Cyric's name to figure out something was amiss (ok, they had doubts with the undead but even then it was kinda too late)?
5) The orcs: while every random god is sending a Chosen to destroy Gruumsh's Eye, Gruumsh is sending yet another horde of CR 1 random orcs? Where is Gruumsh's Chosen? And don't tell me it was that pathetic orc chieftain or the useless orc shaman ... Also why are they so bestial and with misshapen limbs?
6) Malik and Joelle: for the first half of the book, i hoped something was in store for Malik, with his charm-powered infatuation and jealousy for the redhead hottie, i really hoped we would get a new Malik for the future (doing what was right for all the wrong reasons), but by the second half of the book it was back to classic Malik/Cyric schedule ... big missed opportunity there.
7) Malik's survival: ... sigh ...
8) Kleef: DAT name, i kept hearing Amy Wong from Futurama shouting "Kif" every time i read it.

Now, with the book ending still fresh in my mind i have a theory regarding Sune, Joelle and the whole love/sex/brainwashing thing, a theory that would cancel points 2 and 4 of my list above. First things first, Joelle isn't good, she is a thief, she lies and cheats, she charms everyone, she accepts Malik even knowing what a putrid thing he is inside (well she doesn't know the whole truth but she has enough hints to know that he can safely carry the Eye of Gruumsh) and her whole plan revolves around exploiting someone else. Joelle isn't evil either, she cares about the people around her (at least in the immediate circumstances of threats and attacks and wounds), she is regretful anytime she sends mobs to die against Yder, she is carefree and open and understanding even with scum such as Malik or with Arietta, who thinks she's an harlot until she stops flirting with Kleef. She isn't very devout even, we are told twice that she embarked in all of this after a threat to her beauty prompted a big donation to Sune's church, yes i know she fits the bill for the hot carefree flirting Sunite stereotype but i think she is just a hot carefree flirting thief with morals close to that of Sune's church.
So we have Joelle the Chaotic Neutral thief as an improvised tool for Sune to carry on her convoluted plan, Joelle was perfect, because she had the right skills even before being Chosen by Sune and the goddess' boosts only helped give her the edge. Furthermore, Sune knew who Malik was, from the start, and didn't tell Joelle about it because she, not Cyric, needed Malik and Joelle to do what they did at the end. In Sune's view, the sacrifice for love had always been Joelle.
Let me explain, the thing with the love triangle and the charm was a convoluted mess that confused all the mortals concerned (and i, the reader, too) with Joelle first trying to bed Kleef, then succeeding with Arietta, then realizing (through Kleef words in the temple) that Arietta wouldn't do (because she would sacrifice out of honor/duty/greater good and not love) but that with the triangle she messily created Kleef was willing to sacrifice for love and she (Joelle) too was ready. That's what Sune predicted: by lavishly using her charm power Joelle would finally enlighten on the true meaning of Sunite love and on self-sacrifice, and when Malik killed her, she was ready and fulfilled her duty as a Chosen of Sune, dying for the one she loved (otherwise the ritual wouldn't have worked). Sune wasn't planning on brainwashing someone's else pawn and sacrificing it, Sune knew from the start it would have been her pawn (Joelle) sacrifing itself, only this pawn needed to find it's way to the end on its own (without Sune saying "Hey gal, go there and suicide for me, kthxbye") and Malik had to be there to be the unwitting tool of Sune's plan, that's why Sune tollerated his presence and didn't tip off Joelle and company. After all, if the rules of Torillian Afterlife haven't changed, by the time Kleef and Arietta are out of the Shaar, Joelle will be making out with her goddess in her home plane. This also would fit with the evolution of the other Chosens in this novel (of course, Malik is an exception! He always is ...): Kleef followed the letter of the law while being embittered at the spirit of it and at his own faith in a dead god, this didn't stop Helm from making him nigh unstoppable, but he had to wait until Kleef surrendered to faith and duty to resurrect and make him truly unstoppable; Arietta was on her high horse acting all self-righteous until it was pointed out she had been deceived like an idiot, and only after she accepted this truth and finally surrendered to her duties and acted like a true leader (instead of just thinking she was one and everything else was a given) did Siamorphe "unlock" her gifts for her; Joelle was so near Sunite's philosophy and morals that Sune blessed her and gave her all the means to finally understand truly what it meant to love someone, and she demonstrated her "Choseness" with her own self-sacrifice.

I don't know if i'm making sense, but i'll end the wall of text here. Excuse me for any typos contained therein, my broken spacebar is killing me.
Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2015 :  23:09:35  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Demzer, that makes alot of sense actually. Joelle is alot more understanable in your theory, while her goddess comes off looking pretty bad.
I'm not sure your idea is what Denning meant but it does make sense with what's written.

Go to Top of Page

Eltheron
Senior Scribe

740 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2015 :  00:15:11  Show Profile Send Eltheron a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Demzer, I like your theory. It still would've been a tragic story, but one with added moral meaning very much in line with Sune's purpose and mission. And you're right, there should've been something better with the orcs and the Netherese/Sharrans. The whole Sharran thing was a complete dud for me.

Had it been that way, and if Arietta had been at least angry about being charmed, I wouldn't have been so deeply disappointed.

(and hobbitfan, I don't think the theory makes Sune look bad - as gods they're far more concerned about souls, and a final reward for Joelle having done a real self-sacrifice for love seems appropriate and, well, loving. I wish it had been better written and with this outcome in mind.)

"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer

Edited by - Eltheron on 16 Jan 2015 00:16:05
Go to Top of Page

Mirtek
Senior Scribe

595 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2015 :  20:35:05  Show Profile Send Mirtek a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

and it spent way more time in the Fugue,
[...]
since it was only his word that the tunic led to the Fugue]
I think these two go together to answer the question
Go to Top of Page

Demzer
Senior Scribe

873 Posts

Posted - 16 Jan 2015 :  22:31:44  Show Profile Send Demzer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek

quote:
Originally posted by Demzer

and it spent way more time in the Fugue,
[...]
since it was only his word that the tunic led to the Fugue]
I think these two go together to answer the question



Could be, but the whole Fugue thing is even more jumbled considering that Kleef apparently had a nice chance to sense when even Malik was lying (Cyric used Myrkul has an alias for some time so lying about that may have been on the edge of Kleef's lie-radar) and even if they believed him, the characters should have thought about the question i posed, since Myrkul is long dead and it's Kelemvor ruling in the Fugue (and i don't think they would assume Kelemvor would help the Chosen of Myrkul). Unless in-world Kelemvor is MIA or Myrkul is already re-established (unlikely since Gingrid was really surprised to hear of someone else worshipping Myrkul).

Anyway, it could be Malik was succesfully bluffing (after all Cyric remains the Prince of Lies) and the others were too slow to catch the hints or think about the situation in the Fugue. And with this plus my theory and ignoring my personal tastes we are down to just 1, 5 and 6 unanswered (at least for me).
Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2015 :  23:46:22  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something that confused me is that in the last book I read with Malik in it (crucible), he couldn't lie..at all. Did something change where the effects of that spell were no longer in effect?
Because it looked like Mailk was lying in this book.
Go to Top of Page

Delwa
Master of Realmslore

USA
1268 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2015 :  23:52:59  Show Profile  Visit Delwa's Homepage Send Delwa a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan

Something that confused me is that in the last book I read with Malik in it (crucible), he couldn't lie..at all. Did something change where the effects of that spell were no longer in effect?
Because it looked like Mailk was lying in this book.



Yes. Mystra died in the Spellplague, and with her, her curse that made him truthful, if I recall correctly.

- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!

"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus
Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 18 Jan 2015 :  23:55:07  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That would explain it Delwa. Thanks. :)

Go to Top of Page

hobbitfan
Learned Scribe

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2015 :  06:01:30  Show Profile Send hobbitfan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I should have the other Sundering novels arriving from Amazon tomorrow so i can perhaps then get a clearer picture of what's going on.
Go to Top of Page

Tanthalas
Senior Scribe

Portugal
508 Posts

Posted - 20 Jan 2015 :  20:03:10  Show Profile Send Tanthalas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The other Sundering novels won't help you much. They all barely have any info about the Sundering itself, they're mostly centered around how characters live through the Sundering.

Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage".
Go to Top of Page

Firestorm
Senior Scribe

Canada
826 Posts

Posted - 21 Jan 2020 :  20:45:59  Show Profile Send Firestorm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron

Joelle wasn't just brainwashing and exploiting people, she raped Arietta. There was no buildup of any deeper feelings beyond friendship. Joelle finally becomes desperate to find a "willing" self-sacrifice for Sune, and uses her Chosen-empowered "love" charm to seduce Arietta.

So yeah, rape in a Realms novel - where the attacker is theoretically a servant of a good goddess.

Probably the lowest point yet for Realms novels. It was sickening, not just for being there but also because it was glossed over. Was it meant to be "edgy" or progressive because it was lesbian sex? Did the author not realize that this was rape?

Honestly, I will never read another novel by him ever again.




Just reread this book and went looking through the archives to get nostalgic and came across this.


Seriously. In novels where children are killed, people chopped in half,and millions of other evil acts are carried out, getting someone using a magic charm to coerce someone into the sack is where you draw the line and say "I will never read his books again?"

What's next, comparing Elminster to Bill Clinton's impeachment because he is automatically considered an authority figure and talks a lot of young women into the sack with him?

Im pretty sure in Salvatore's "Road of the Patriarch" it shows a priest of Selune grunting as he rapes a 14 year old girl and then throwing her out on the curb. It then mentions how the guy does it to every kid in town as has for like 25 years or more and might even be Artemis Entreri's dad.

Im assuming having to read this left you similarly outraged


Edited by - Firestorm on 21 Jan 2020 20:58:47
Go to Top of Page

CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2708 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2020 :  04:12:02  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan

I should have the other Sundering novels arriving from Amazon tomorrow so i can perhaps then get a clearer picture of what's going on.



The Reaver is the only other standalone. Companions, Godborn, Adversary, and The Herald are connected are part of other series, so be aware of that

Sweet water and light laughter
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  New Poll New Poll
 Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Candlekeep Forum © 1999-2024 Candlekeep.com Go To Top Of Page
Snitz Forums 2000