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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
4906 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  02:59:11  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo

It was definitely written in the mid 60s. THO has previously stated that it was written in "1967 or so".



Yes, Ed was 8 when he wrote it.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Joran Nobleheart
Senior Scribe

USA
489 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  06:26:58  Show Profile  Visit Joran Nobleheart's Homepage Send Joran Nobleheart a Private Message
Although belated, happy anniversary to the Realms! My favorite place to play D&D, even after all these years!

I almost forgot to ask, what does the uniform look like in Neverwinter for the guards, soldiers, watch, etc there? What are the colors that make up the uniform? Do they use a rank system that we've already seen before that I can look up to help me? Are there special awards or titles one can receive for special services to Nasher or the city itself, and if so, could you please mention a few? Also, is there a chapter house of the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart in Neverwinter?

I'm wanting to play a character from Neverwinter, and having an idea of rank and titles would help a great deal. Thank you for your time!

Paladinic Ethos
Saint Joran Nobleheart

Edited by - Joran Nobleheart on 23 Feb 2015 06:37:54
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1408 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  11:59:48  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
Dear THO, in 2013 I wrote this question for you to send to Ed, and you told "I think your Moondark queries are about to hit an NDA. But not for all that long." Are there any news about this?

quote:

In the 'Volo's Guide to the North' the legend of the Moondark Mountains, an ancient elven cluster of magic-rich citadels, whose inhabitants apparently left the world through Spelljamming. Have any newer lore been published that confirms those tales, and that says of which elven realms those citadels were part? And I've also noted that the name of the temple of Solonor the Archer God in Evereska is 'Moondark Hill'. Is there any connections between those places that you know about?

I was also wondering if there was any connection between those tales and the stories of winged elves near the Spine of the World. Could you please shed some light over these questions?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)
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paladinnicolas
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  17:07:11  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message
Hi THO, I'd like to ask Ed if there are detective agencies in the Realms. Thanks!
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  18:19:38  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all!
paladinnicolas, in a word, the answer to your question is: Yes.
Ed will have to provide more details when he can.

To Jeremy, hashimashidoo, and George, re. the genesis of "One Comes, Unheralded, To Zirta": by a weird coincidence, Ed has just been explaining this to one of his closest friends and business partners, and so could readily pass to me his explanation, by just quoting his emails.
So, here we go...
In June of 1965 (so, a little more than a month before Ed's seventh birthday), a six-year-old Ed wrote the first Realms story, which is the first version of ZIRTA.
Here are Ed's own words:

But what I wrote then had a Mirt subplot that didn't work, so what I did when I was eight was rewrite the story to pull those scenes out and craft a "Mirt fleeing from merchants he's swindled in Zirta" story that didn't have Elminster or Alusair or any of the other NPCs in it.

(What Ed means here was that he'd written scenes where Mirt was fleeing, a chase that in the original story just stopped, with the chasers vanishing into thin air without any explanation, when Mirt encountered Elminster and the rest of the story that later got published unfolded from that point.)

The original version of Zirta (Ed's words pick up again):

just sat while I wrote many other short little tales of the Realms (haunted house stories, etc.) until late 1967, when I pulled out the Mirt chase scenes into their own story, and rewrote "Unheralded" into its final form. Which was what I handed to Jeff, years later, for that GenCon handout.
So Zirta WAS written when I was six, but the "proper" version that I handed Jeff was created by a rewrite I did when I was eight.
A lot of my early stories read like "meanwhile" snapshots: they throw in irrelevant scenes about "here's what these other characters were doing at the same time" as well as telling a main story. Just because I wanted to keep track of what those other characters were up to, and didn't give a darn about what publishers might want. I was just writing for my own amusement, and I was SIX, goddamn it. ;}

So there you have it. I've read some of these (mainly short, pencil scrawls on paper) Mirt stories, and they're great fun. Not great fiction, but great fun.

So the Realms turns 50 in June of this year, 2015. Not TSR's published Realms, but the Realms as the creation of Ed Greenwood.
Hope that's all clear.
Yes, Ed was a precocious, lonely little boy (his mother died when he was six) who had written quite an output before he started kindergarten. By the time he hit high school, he had a career going writing novels, and always found the sage advice of English teachers about "creative writing" a tad hilarious. When he started writing book reviews as part of his student masthead duties at Ryerson (in Toronto, Ontario, Canada), when taking a degree in journalism, one of his instructors tore a strip off him for doing a review of QUAG'S KEEP, the first D&D® novel, written by Andre Norton, purely because of Ed's "effrontery" in thinking his opinions had any merit at all ("Who are you? Some unknown kid from Canada!") - - and then had to apologize when the instructor contacted local game store owners for quotes, to show Ed what he SHOULD have done to do a "proper" review, and one of those owners told the instructor "Well, the foremost authority on roleplaying games in this country right now is unquestionably Ed Greenwood."
Good times.
Many excellent questions posted, scribes. Off they've all gone to Ed, for whatever he can dredge up by way of Realmslore for us all . . .
love,
THO
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  18:44:06  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
Fascinating.
And the published Realms would date from the release date of issue 30 of "The Dragon" (DRAGON® Magazine), which contained Ed's monster "The Curst" (then 32, 34, 37 which definitely had the Realms mentioned in the text of Ed's Gates article, and so on).
The Realms as a product line either dates from the issue of DRAGON that included a foldout shiny cardstock "teaser" map of the Heartlands, or the launch of the Doug Niles DARKWALKER ON MOONSHAE novel that came out a few months later (1987). If I'm remembering the timing of the Dragon inclusion map correctly.
So the published Realms, as a product line, is 28 years old this year.
I know Ed published Realms fragments and short stories in various venues, including a small-circulation magazine called THE CAMPAIGN HACK that had over a hundred issues, over the years, and I've heard him say at conventions that some of the earlier published Realms things were well before TSR bought the Realms, or even existed as a company.
So the "published" Realms (on paper; no e-books or Internet back then) probably date from 1970 or so, which would make them 45 years old this year.
But if we go with the legal definition of "published" as disseminated to others (so if you give a public speech, you've "published" your words), then the Realms is fifty years old right now, because I know that not only Ed's father read and enjoyed Ed's Realms efforts, he took them to work for his co-workers to enjoy, and they got passed around, and Ed got REQUESTS to write more about this character or that character. (This comes from hanging out with Ed at conventions, and attending those early seminars and panels at GenCons.)
What I don't know is who those co-workers would have been. Ed's dad (physicist, expertise in radar and electronics) worked for Canadian Arsenals, and something called Ferrante-Packard (but when or in what order, I don't know), then Canadian General Electric, and then became a professor at Ryerson, a job he held until he retired. Ed's father died in 2008, so we can't ask him, and I don't know if even Ed knows or remembers the dates of when his dead worked for whom. Just about everybody at his father's workplaces would be dead now, anyway.
Ed's Dad sounds like a great guy. I mean, he reacted to his son discovering the stuff that passed for porn in his book collection back then by showing him where the rest of the naughty stuff was hidden.
BB
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  19:19:58  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Thank you THO and Blueblade. :)

Edit: oh drat...wouldn't Ed have to have been born in '58 to turn seven in '65? I thought he was born in '59. I must seem like the worst of nitpickers.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 23 Feb 2015 19:38:22
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  20:43:48  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Heh. You are right, Jeremy. Ed was six in June of 1966, so it must have been that year (he would have turned six in July of 1965). He rewrote Unheralded in "late" (fall/autumn) of 1967, when he was eight.
And I wasn't around back then, to teach Ed how to count.
love,
THO
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A Publishing Lackey
Seeker

74 Posts

Posted - 23 Feb 2015 :  23:51:39  Show Profile  Visit A Publishing Lackey's Homepage Send A Publishing Lackey a Private Message
I'm just guessing here, not operating from personal knowledge of Ed's family, but from what I can tell, Ed's father's PROBABLE progression of employment, just going by when companies shut down or got bought or stopped doing most electrical work (as I do know, from my own professional past, that Ed's dad was a physicist specializing in radar, radio, and electronics) was:
Canadian Arsenals Ltd.
then:
Ferranti-Packard
then:
CGE
and finally a professor at Ryerson.
Ferranti shed most of its electronics guys in 1964, and CGE effectively shut down in 1989, so that would mean Ed's dad was sharing Ed's stories with fellow employees at Canadian General Electric. The ones that were into fantasy and sf.
I can just picture it.
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Blueblade
Senior Scribe

USA
804 Posts

Posted - 24 Feb 2015 :  15:09:31  Show Profile  Visit Blueblade's Homepage Send Blueblade a Private Message
That squares with a story Ed told us at the Great Canadian Baycon in Hamilton years back. About some of his father's co-workers, when they came to supper at the Greenwood household, sitting around the dinner table.
They thanked the young Ed for his entertaining writings they'd been enjoying, and he in turn asked them what they wanted to see more of - - and then they hemmed and hawed and stumbled, in front of Ed's dad and either his grandmother or his maiden aunt (those ladies took turns to step in to play homemaker and raise the Greenwood children after the death of Ed's mother), as they tried to ask the very young Ed to write love or sex scenes involving particular characters he'd written about. Without the grandmother/maiden aunt realizing what they were asking, and without angering Ed's dad . . . who, Ed says, was more or less on their side but hadn't the foggiest about how to ask his young son to write erotica.
And Ed, who caught on right away, was trying to play the bright, eager, "Oh, you mean like those scenes where ladies tease men? In their nighties and such?" card and communicate that he would be happy to, in a sort of code, and his Dad kept LOOKING at him and wondering WHAT he'd come across in his reading . . .
Ed had us in stitches. Pound the table laughter. When he gets going, Ed's a hoot of a comedian.
BB
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Vulpes
Acolyte

4 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2015 :  04:35:34  Show Profile Send Vulpes a Private Message
First time, long time!

I've long wondered about the Imaskari, specifically their penchant for dimensional magic (portals, extradimensional spaces, planar travel, etc.). The Grand History of the Relams intimates that they may have at least been influenced by Batrachi designs in creating the Bukhara Spires that knit their empire together, but even before that they were experimenting with extradimensional spaces. Was this due to Batrachi influence as well, or something they discovered and developed themselves? Was it something specific to Imaskari culture that made them take to this kind of magic in a way that no other culture on Toril has ever done before or since, or a historical accident?

If Ed can shed any insight, it would be much appreciated, as all his lore is.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1808 Posts

Posted - 25 Feb 2015 :  08:06:38  Show Profile  Visit xaeyruudh's Homepage Send xaeyruudh a Private Message
Apologies if this has been asked, or ruled out... I'm a little foggy headed at the moment and can't think how to search for it.

Is the Old Skull the crashed and weathered remnant of a Netherese city? Or, perhaps, a cloud/storm giant city?

I just had a vision of an enclave landing on Monikar's big temple of Kozah, during the Fall. Irony, poetic something something, Hoar steeples his fingers and chuckles. I'm seriously tired.

Also, though, it seems like the presence (or suspicion) of unknown (or known to some) Netherese magic here might help explain Alokkair's choice of this particular area for his lair.

Something about that guy keeps whispering to me...
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  20:10:36  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
I don't think Ed has ever hinted that the Old Skull was anything more than a natural feature: an unusually-large and bare, for the forested surroundings, "knob" of solid bedrock.
However, there ARE some ancient magical secrets about Shadowdale, some of them as yet unrevealed even to we Knights, so there ARE reasons Alokkair is where he is.
So off your musings go to Ed, xaeyruudh, to see what he might be nudged into sharing . . .
love,
THO
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader

USA
2717 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  20:15:04  Show Profile Send Jeremy Grenemyer a Private Message
Well again, THO and ED!

Ed, if you were given the task of writing a romance novel set in modern day Cormyr, with steamy sex scenes, passion-filled prose, etc., what location springs to mind as a good place to set such a tale, and in what ways would you go about the writing differently than when you write a standard Cormyr novel?

Also, which NPCs living in Cormyr would be the perfect character choices for the book?

Thank you both, as always. :D

EDIT: in general, what do you think of the idea of expanding the Realms novel line to other genres? Me? If WotC published romance novels set in the Realms, I'd read 'em.

Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver).

Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 26 Feb 2015 20:17:59
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paladinnicolas
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  20:53:23  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message
Hi Ed and THO, I have a question that may be a bit odd... but from a political point of view, the situation of Waterdeep's rulers seems a bit odd to me. The fact that save for Piergeiron and other open lords, always one at a time, all other lords have an unknown identity, seems counterintuitive to me. After all, currently most political scientists and lawyers argue that publicness and transparency are factors of accountability and rule of law. Therefore, I'd like to ask if some have called for a change in the political situation in Waterdeep, if some masked lords have abused their position, and if the political system has engendered problems there. Thanks!
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BenN
Learned Scribe

Japan
340 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  21:59:49  Show Profile Send BenN a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Also, which NPCs living in Cormyr would be the perfect character choices for the book?

The name 'Mirt' immediately springs to mind. He's the Barry White of the Realms.

Edited by - BenN on 26 Feb 2015 22:01:35
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
30283 Posts

Posted - 26 Feb 2015 :  22:19:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by paladinnicolas

Hi Ed and THO, I have a question that may be a bit odd... but from a political point of view, the situation of Waterdeep's rulers seems a bit odd to me. The fact that save for Piergeiron and other open lords, always one at a time, all other lords have an unknown identity, seems counterintuitive to me. After all, currently most political scientists and lawyers argue that publicness and transparency are factors of accountability and rule of law. Therefore, I'd like to ask if some have called for a change in the political situation in Waterdeep, if some masked lords have abused their position, and if the political system has engendered problems there. Thanks!



From various novels and tidbits scattered here and there, we do know that some Lords have abused their positions, using their Lordship to gain greater wealth, magic, or position among the criminal underworld of Waterdeep. We saw it in the DC/TSR comics, back in the day, and there was another one referenced, in the quote below.

quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One

And for about 30 years Ed worked for "Nipple" (that is, NYPL, or North York Public Library). A library system that can and has been called many things, but seldom "tawdry."
However, back to the Realms . . .
Wooly, Asper's Lordship WAS a brief one. She was made a Lord in place of someone ailing, to try to track down a traitor within the ranks of the Lords (this was a storyline/subplot in Ed's home Realms campaign that almost made it into printed Realmslore early on, that we called, "Who Is Killing the Lords of Waterdeep?" vice "Who Is Killing The Great Chefs of Europe?"), and managed to hunt down and kill the guilty lord, but in so doing grew to loathe many of the sitting Lords [who in turn loathed her], and she decided to remain a Lord so as to have the powers and privileges and be able to step in and deal with future traitors and misbehaving Lords, but to stay quiet and low-profile. This suited the rest of the Lords just fine; aside from Mirt and his personal friends within the Lords, who remained Asper's friend, the rest of the Lords just ignored her. Some of them referred to her as "the Sword At Our Back" or "the Lurking Sword," so if you run across those phrases in Realmslore, that's who's meant.
Published rosters of the Lords are notoriously incomplete and inaccurate, so the lone mention means little. I know of three NPCs widely (and correctly) suspected around the city of being Lords, who have never been mentioned in published Realmslore as belonging to the Lords.
This is fine, BTW; it gives individual DMs more leeway in playing "who's a Lord/who's not" games in their own campaigns.
love,
THO



We've also seen opposition to the Lords as a group, in a couple of the novels set in Waterdeep -- most notably Ed and Elaine's The City of Splendors. Garnet's actions in Elfsong were also aimed, in part, at undermining the rule of the Lords.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
148 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  00:31:53  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message
Hello Ed and THO,

I have some quick-fire librarial(sp?) questions.
-What was considered the greatest library in the realms before Candlekeep?
-Has there ever been a colossal single loss of stored knowledge like the destruction of the Library of Alexandraia on Earth?
-In the late 15th century,how fares the Index of Danali, Danali himself, and the Leaves of Learning?
-Is there an equivalent to our Dewey Decimal system or are other indexing systems used (like at the Leaves of Learning)?

I have more questions about magical libraries (a knowledge-web, akin to the internet), the children of the passive voice, and travelling libraries; but I will reign in my rabbit-hole of queries.

Many thanks in advance.

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms

Edited by - Eli the Tanner on 27 Feb 2015 00:32:55
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Moderator

Australia
31690 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  03:13:09  Show Profile  Send The Sage an AOL message  Click to see The Sage's MSN Messenger address  Send The Sage a Yahoo! Message Send The Sage a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

I have some quick-fire librarial(sp?) questions.
-What was considered the greatest library in the realms before Candlekeep?
To save Ed the time for a response... I'm pretty sure this one's been asked before [though it may have yet to receive a detailed reply].

I'll check the backlog archive.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)

"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood

Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage
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JJ
Acolyte

1 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  07:40:07  Show Profile Send JJ a Private Message
This is from someone who never has done tabletop rpgs.

How are the people in charge of FR adapting the setting in response to changing fantasy audiences? In terms of the growing visibility of women and minorities interested in fantasy?

And also, I would try this, but I am currently in a strange funk where I want to play as things like dragons or wyverns and such, meaning I do have to create my own worlds and lore for that.

IN another note:
If I read this setting's lore, will I find any dragons that get to have a happy ending in their story? Not many get to in fantasy, which is sad.

And also:
I am not going to open the can of worms about that annoying Wall of the Faithless, but things like that really just make me think that all the gods of Forgotten Realms are evil, and that things would be better without any of them. It just makes me angry, upset, and disgusted in a way that I cannot explain. I will just say this is not for me.

But also, it adds appeal to being faithless in the game, as there is a lot of story potential their. A rather interesting number of goals could show up also. This is from the point of view of an irl atheist who is more curious than vindicative.

I just am going to politely agree to disagree with others on this fantasy world, and stick to or create my own worlds that I like. This game is not for me.

I am not going to be disrespectful, as I can look to this setting, and visualize what I both like and dislike about fantasy, and then grow my own stories and fantasies how I like them.

(I am talking about my own, unique fantasy worlds and setting I had been creating before knowing of this. not trying to plagiarize)

Thank you for creating FR though.
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Eli the Tanner
Learned Scribe

United Kingdom
148 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  09:39:52  Show Profile  Visit Eli the Tanner's Homepage Send Eli the Tanner a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

quote:
Originally posted by Eli the Tanner

I have some quick-fire librarial(sp?) questions.
-What was considered the greatest library in the realms before Candlekeep?
To save Ed the time for a response... I'm pretty sure this one's been asked before [though it may have yet to receive a detailed reply].

I'll check the backlog archive.



Thanks Sage, especially if it makes things easier on Ed, my google-fu did not yield any results.

Moderator of /r/Forgotten_Realms
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore

Brazil
1408 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  11:29:41  Show Profile  Click to see Barastir's MSN Messenger address Send Barastir a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by JJ
(...)
And also, I would try this, but I am currently in a strange funk where I want to play as things like dragons or wyverns and such, meaning I do have to create my own worlds and lore for that.
(...)


Hi, JJ.

Have you checked 2e AD&D Council of Wyrms? It has rules for draconic PCs - although they are linked to human and demihuman companions, which you can ignore.

EDIT: You will also find valuable information about dragons, the behavior of each draconic variety, their relations with other draconic races and with humanoid beings in the excellent 2e sourcebook Draconomicon. Part of it was re-written, revised or updated in the Cult of the Dragon sourcebook, which is also a great book - but I still prefer the former.

In time, since this is Ed's thread, I have found no reference to him in Draconomicon, have he contributed to this book? How much of it is part of his home world, if any?

"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."

The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood)

Edited by - Barastir on 27 Feb 2015 12:21:41
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paladinnicolas
Learned Scribe

84 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  11:45:07  Show Profile Send paladinnicolas a Private Message
Thanks Wooly!
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Taurendil
Seeker

Chile
43 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  13:24:43  Show Profile Send Taurendil a Private Message
Hi Ed, THO and all of you guys!

I would like to know if, besides the shadovars, the few netherese survivors that went into other lands of Faerûn still exist as communities of "netherese", keeping their traditions, or did they just mixed with the rest of the Faerunian cultures.

And if they do remain, how do they look their returned shadow-kin, is there any kind of animosity between them?

Thanks a lot! :)

- Ideas desordenadas sin RPG en específico www.juegoconamnesia.blogspot.com (Spanish)
- Des idées en vrac pour n'importe quel JdR www.jeudeloubli.blogspot.com (French)
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore

5043 Posts

Posted - 27 Feb 2015 :  16:55:58  Show Profile  Visit The Hooded One's Homepage Send The Hooded One a Private Message
Hi again, all.
Taurendil, the former Netherese scattered all over Toril have continued to change, culturally, since the diaspora. In most places they went, they CREATED the local culture (e.g. Halruaa) by swamping in numbers/wealth/power the relatively few humans already there, or becoming the first humans in a locale. So they differ from each other.
Almost all of them would been hostile to the Shadovar who treated them with hostility or aggression, which tended to be the way the arcanists of Shade acted when making forays out from Thultanthar: they were looking to conquer, or to seize resources without paying for them, and so rubbed the people they were encountering, former Netherese or not, the wrong way.
love,
THO
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