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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3525 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2015 :  01:01:34  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

It seems to me like a lot of people went elsewhere with 4e. Is it just that the 4e fans are not responding here or are the figures on this thread representative of the numbers of people who liked 4e (almost none it would seem). If the latter is true one wonders why they stuck with the 4e timeline and changes.



We've got folks here who are fans of the 4E Realms... But I know of people who stopped coming here after the 4E campaign book came out.

Obviously, I didn't leave here, but the gaming money I used to give WotC instead went to Paizo and other companies. Until the Elminster's Realms book came out, I'd only given WotC maybe $20 during the entire run of 4E material.



*waves hand*

I've attempted to be a pretty positive poster about the 4E Realms and to take what the designers gave us and put it to good use. I don't like every change they made, but the majority of it I felt was needed (obviously YMMV). Since 4E came out I've only devoted my $$ for RGPs to them. Along with books and Adventures, I've also had the DDI account going for about 4 years now. For 5E, I haven't given them any money yet. I'm not hooked so to speak but I'm not opposed to playing the game with that system.

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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froglegg
Learned Scribe

317 Posts

Posted - 17 Jan 2015 :  02:42:26  Show Profile Send froglegg a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I stoped at 3.5

The only 4ht edition items I picked up were, The Essentials Red Box (So I had a nice new box to put my B/X and BECM books.) and Elminster's Forgotten Realms (It is edition neutral to me and could go hand in hand with my Old Grey Box.)

I looked at 4th edition Realms and all I could think was "No just no!"

I thought about what Mr. Greenwood said "It's your world, make it your own!" and I take it to heart.
My Realms, my lore being what ever I can dream up and no Realms shattering events.
The Forgotten Realms that now no longer needs WOTC or Hasbro, just me and a pen and some paper and some good friends to enjoy what I have come up with.

The B/X, BECM, 1st Edition & 2nd Edition and 3.5 rules give me so much freedom and so much to use so I don't need anymore.




John

Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!

On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale

The Old Grey Box gets better with age!
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2015 :  21:59:05  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't purchased D&D gaming books since they stopped making 2E stuff. I'll get around to collecting/reading all of the Forgotten Realms novels at some point though.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2

Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede
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MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe

688 Posts

Posted - 04 Mar 2015 :  01:56:18  Show Profile  Visit MrHedgehog's Homepage Send MrHedgehog a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Books were not of high enough quality content to purchase. I did play the normal 4e game, though. It was more the forgotten realms in 4th edition that was awful. (Recycled art and little or no content...)
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Delandil Aenar
Acolyte

6 Posts

Posted - 07 Mar 2015 :  09:46:29  Show Profile Send Delandil Aenar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I stopped at 3.5 material, with the already quoted exception of the Elminnster's Forgotten Realms which I think it's a very good book. Now I am supporting 5th edition because I really like the game and I look forward to see a campaign setting like the one for the third edition, but I guess it'll take a while.

I didn't like HotDQ / ToD because it seems to me the Realms are just on the background.

Long story short: I will buy 5E material associated to the Realms hoping to read good things.

Neither a warrior nor a cleric could heal the wounds made by love
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zemd
Master of Realmslore

France
1103 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2015 :  17:49:24  Show Profile Send zemd a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I walked away a few years ago, but i'm willing to give it an other go.
Very curious about the new content for FR
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
473 Posts

Posted - 08 Mar 2015 :  19:06:36  Show Profile  Visit Old Man Harpell's Homepage Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog

The 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Books were not of high enough quality content to purchase. I did play the normal 4e game, though. It was more the forgotten realms in 4th edition that was awful. (Recycled art and little or no content...)


I didn't really much grok into the 4th Edition system - for what it offered, I could log into Everquest. I'm not saying it was particularly bad, but pretty much everyone in my gaming circle gave a collective shrug of 'meh' after trying it. But we gave it a shot. It just wasn't our cup of tea.

Realms 4th, my initial reaction was nothing short of outrage. This was tempered more than a bit by the efforts of a couple of the good scribes here, and by the release of the Neverwinter book - enough that I was able to loosen the collar of my Vestments of the Grognard +5 and try to work with what was there. And I would still purchase all the books for 4th Edition Realms - Realmslore is Realmslore, period. The fact that I will now be able to likely find all 4th Edition material at Half Price Books at a substantial savings is a plus, of course.

I bought 5th Edition's Holy Trinity, I'll certainly pony up for any FR material, and possibly seriously consider other worlds, for rules, if northing else (I would seriously love some new Birthright material). My circle is currently using 5th Edition for three campaigns (only one of which I am presiding over), so WotC has my business, at least for the foreseeable future.

- OMH
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Jayson_Neverstop
Acolyte

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2015 :  06:35:58  Show Profile Send Jayson_Neverstop a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It has been a while, but, since I am starting a new 5e FR campaign with my gaming group, I had to make decisions on what to do.....

I have, just like everyone here, an extensive FR book collection. Whatever era I want to do is available. With that in mind, I made my decisions....

I am going to use the 4e part - as in the past. I am starting my campaign in the year 1500DR. The spellplague is over and what is Abeir's stays on Abeir; what is Toril's stays on Toril. I will not abandon the Realms, nor will I hang on to the past. I just hope my players enjoy it......

"Monks have tails, you idiot! It's the apes that don't!" ~ Clueless Player

Neverwinter MMO Character: Jayson Neverstop, Human, Ranger, Level 48
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader

USA
3085 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2015 :  13:27:20  Show Profile Send Artemas Entreri a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Another option is to mix and match whatever game edition rules you prefer with whatever Realms edition version you prefer.

Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin

Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2

Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe

Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 09 Mar 2015 :  14:13:50  Show Profile  Visit ZeshinX's Homepage Send ZeshinX a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My group has circled back to the Realms again with 5e's release. We had moved over to Pathfinder/Golarion, but we wanted to play 5e in a D&D setting.

So we currently play in the Realms (1378 DR), but ignore absolutely everything 4e introduced (the Dragonborn race included in the 5e Core Rules is also not used in our games).

We love the 5e rules quite a lot, but we're not impressed with WotC subsequent releases. We're quite baffled by the storyline approach to be honest. Not that they'd like to offer it, but at the expense, seemingly, of pretty much any other type of content. Paizo's approach is better. They offer the storyline in their APs, but don't brow beat you with it. If you're not interested, plenty of other product with useful content. Not so much with WotC.

So unless that shifts, I don't see us investing any more money in 5e/WotC product. As for the original question, I wouldn't say we're walking away from the Realms/WotC, but we're sure not sending any more money their way unless they offer something better.

"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage

Edited by - ZeshinX on 09 Mar 2015 14:15:58
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Peter R
Acolyte

United Kingdom
13 Posts

Posted - 09 Apr 2015 :  19:20:31  Show Profile  Visit Peter R's Homepage Send Peter R a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,
This is actually my first post on this forum and I found this quite interesting as I have come to the Realms from a completely different direction.

I stumbled upon a box full of FR source materials at a charity sale last year but I have not played D&D in any guise since (regularly) 1986 baring a one off game in about 1992.

Everything I have read in the source material I have converted over to the game rules I prefer and have been using the mid 80s.

Now I am spending 8 to 10 hours most weeks reading material, creating the NPCs to best fit both the source material and game. Undoubtedly everyone here knows more about the realms than I do and I am only now GMing my first party on their first adventure in the realms. Because we left the D&D world when Grayhawk was still current none of my players have ever adventured in the realms either so we are all new to it.

Playing Rolemaster in the Forgotten Realms
http://www.rolemasterblog.com
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe

Singapore
381 Posts

Posted - 10 Apr 2015 :  07:23:10  Show Profile Send Derulbaskul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm actually very happy with things as they are right now.

I've been a fan of FR since Ed's articles first appeared in Dragon/The Dragon. I have a copy of pretty much every product and most of the novels (even though I generally dislike the novels).

As a fan of 4E as a ruleset, I ended up becoming a convert to the 4E version of the Realms (despite my initial plans to ignore both 4E and the 4E Realms). It is the one I like best for actually running campaigns because it feels a lot more open but I still have all the older material to fill in the gaps. I can also go back to 1372 DR or thereabouts whenever I need something with a more "classic" Realms feel.

Personally, I don't need WotC to give me product any more. I have everything I need plus these forums from which I plunder a lot (thanks THO, Ed, George, Eric et al). If I had confidence that the new Mearlsian approach to FR would deliver something akin to what was effectively promised a year or two ago I might be more excited about WotC's plans going forward. But I am not confident because they seem to have found a direction that suits them as a business but doesn't suit me as a fan.

That isn't a complaint, either. I run FR campaigns. I like the minutiae but it's always with an eye on the practical task of running campaigns. I realised late last year that we were not going to be the expected FR support to I just managed my wants, so to speak. Now that I have done that, I really do not care what WotC does. I will still be running FR in the 4E time period, using 4E or 5E or 13th Age, and using the entire back catalogue of products I have.

As for the comment up-thread along the lines of, "Do we want the Realms to cease being published?" Honestly? I could live with that. The rights would then revert to Ed and a new Paizo-like company could be established to create FR products. Now that is something I could get excited about.


Cheers
D

NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here.
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Renin
Learned Scribe

171 Posts

Posted - 11 Apr 2015 :  04:00:43  Show Profile Send Renin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

Another option is to mix and match whatever game edition rules you prefer with whatever Realms edition version you prefer.



This is what I do. Never bought 4e, but got into PF.

Now? I run a PF rules set with homebrew corrections in a FR setting based off of lore and the prior 3 decades long campaigns I and my friends have run in the world, altering it to our PCs actions.

Being that we are now all married...with children, playing once a month would be like winning the lottery.

I don't NEED anything from Wizards. I like to read news and ideas of the Realms...but its obvious that what I think is junk I don't buy or use.

They can do what they want. I got mine.
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
3525 Posts

Posted - 12 Apr 2015 :  04:53:35  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri

Another option is to mix and match whatever game edition rules you prefer with whatever Realms edition version you prefer.



I too have done this as well. For the most part, the setting itself is edition neutral. Sure some minor plots and what-not adhere to the rules of the particular system said plot was written with, but that's mostly fluff that can easily be carried over to any edition.

I've run 4E in pre-Spellplague, 3E in post-spellplague (my new E6 game, for example), and 5E in pre-spellplague too. Nothing really comes to mind that makes me scream "OMG, I have to re-write or create XYZ mechanic to fit what I want to accomplish in this era."

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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mastermustard
Seeker

USA
57 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2015 :  13:25:07  Show Profile Send mastermustard a Private Message  Reply with Quote
No, I'll probably keep coming back to eat the scraps that are dropped for me. Maybe one day things will be like they were.
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sylvain
Seeker

Canada
18 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2015 :  14:22:34  Show Profile Send sylvain a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I won't walk away, I'll just reset the timeline and follow my own FR without the past three realms shaking events.
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Magor
Seeker

15 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2015 :  21:34:33  Show Profile Send Magor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I realize that I'm probably a little late here, but I'd like to share my view on things. It basically comes down to this: I never liked a single product produced after the 2nd edition product line of the realms. I started with 1st edition and was consumed by it wholeheartedly and the same goes for all the 2nd edition stuff. The density, quality and sincerity was never matched again in my opinion. It all went down in terms of quality from there on. So this goes for 3rd, especially 4th and from what I heard/read about 5th edition (as a system of rules and a product line) I have to hold true for the same here. From the point of view of a collector, gamer and dm this has to sound like a fatalistic attitude, but I neither like feeling that way nor can I say I didn't give 3rd-5th edition a fair chance to convince me otherwise. I feel like the forgotten realms I learned of off 1st + 2nd ed material is a closed system in that I do not really care now what further developments took place in 3rd to 5th. So, yes, I not only will walk away if Wizards does this or that, I already left the building back in 2000 when the last products for 2nd ed were released.

Edited by - Magor on 16 Apr 2015 21:36:43
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5281 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2015 :  03:21:22  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There were hit and miss FR products in 1E, 2E and 3E. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but there were more than a handful of poor/average products in 1E and 2E for the Realms.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Magor
Seeker

15 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2015 :  08:03:45  Show Profile Send Magor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
George, I believe I can agree to this: I can think of weak(er) products back in 1st/2nd ed times, but due to overall high standards of quality as well as high quantities in terms of releases it really didn't hurt too much. Also, I always had the feeling that things were in a good fit altogether back then. This is hard to explain, but from the perspective of aesthetics this must be called a holistic approach, I guess. I'm talking about the illustrations, the boxes/covers, the paper, the logos, the density of the text, the typeset, the ratio of material density relative to a given space and why this all worked together for me. Of course, it's the (old) rule system, too, I truly prefer. A friend of mine phrased it like this when we were speaking about 1e+2e vs. 3e-5e: "After 2e it really was just bloat/10". (In the sense you would rate something like "Yes, it's nice, I'll give it a 8,5 out 10".) Just for clarification: I'm not nostalgic for the sake of it, it's more of a matter of self-protection in this case.

Btw.: What do you consider to be the - let's say three - most weak products of the old 1e/2e product line? Just curious...
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
5281 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2015 :  10:35:46  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hmmm, weak is such an imprecise term. There are products like the Netheril boxed set that failed to live up to potential. The sourcebook FR10 Old Empires that was too much of an Earth analogue where unique "outlander" cultures could have been created. And others that seemed awesome at the time but that were absolutely shown up when they were re-done by someone with a passion for the Realms (FR3 Empires of the Sands - Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea for example). There were other products, which I called "vacuum" products - written with little reference to the lore or with only superficial attempts to make them a part of a cohesive FR whole (FR14 The Great Glacier and Giantcraft, for example). I'm showing my bias here but the best FR products have IMO over the years been written by that holy trinity of Ed Greenwood, Eric Boyd and Steven Schend: and for very different reasons. Ed because of his nuance and always putting in new stuff that made you think about the Realms as a whole, Steven because he created whole cloth that appeared like it had "always been like that" and Eric because he was the master at weaving together a multiplicity of realmslore strands into a shining cohesive whole. Masters all and I stand in awe of them to this day.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 18 Apr 2015 03:03:01
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe

USA
520 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  18:35:58  Show Profile  Visit GRYPHON's Homepage Send GRYPHON a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15675 Posts

Posted - 31 Jul 2015 :  20:17:40  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

Hmmm, weak is such an imprecise term. There are products like the Netheril boxed set that failed to live up to potential. The sourcebook FR10 Old Empires that was too much of an Earth analogue where unique "outlander" cultures could have been created. And others that seemed awesome at the time but that were absolutely shown up when they were re-done by someone with a passion for the Realms (FR3 Empires of the Sands - Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea for example). There were other products, which I called "vacuum" products - written with little reference to the lore or with only superficial attempts to make them a part of a cohesive FR whole (FR14 The Great Glacier and Giantcraft, for example). I'm showing my bias here but the best FR products have IMO over the years been written by that holy trinity of Ed Greenwood, Eric Boyd and Steven Schend: and for very different reasons. Ed because of his nuance and always putting in new stuff that made you think about the Realms as a whole, Steven because he created whole cloth that appeared like it had "always been like that" and Eric because he was the master at weaving together a multiplicity of realmslore strands into a shining cohesive whole. Masters all and I stand in awe of them to this day.
Standing up and applauding at my monitor for this.

And YOU, GK, have certainly earned your place amongst the giants.

So often I see FR material being written and you can just tell that the author had no clue as to the underpinnings of The Realms. They never step back and see the grand tapestry Ed wove with such precision. FR isn't a place you can just grab a corner of and write what you want, just as in the RW you can't just invade and take-over some place you want (at least, no anymore lol). Everything is interconnected, and NOTHING exists in a vacuum. You have to see the complete picture - something very few can discern - before crafting your little piece.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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