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sylvain
Acolyte
Canada
18 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 14:22:34
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| I won't walk away, I'll just reset the timeline and follow my own FR without the past three realms shaking events. |
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Magor
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 21:34:33
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| I realize that I'm probably a little late here, but I'd like to share my view on things. It basically comes down to this: I never liked a single product produced after the 2nd edition product line of the realms. I started with 1st edition and was consumed by it wholeheartedly and the same goes for all the 2nd edition stuff. The density, quality and sincerity was never matched again in my opinion. It all went down in terms of quality from there on. So this goes for 3rd, especially 4th and from what I heard/read about 5th edition (as a system of rules and a product line) I have to hold true for the same here. From the point of view of a collector, gamer and dm this has to sound like a fatalistic attitude, but I neither like feeling that way nor can I say I didn't give 3rd-5th edition a fair chance to convince me otherwise. I feel like the forgotten realms I learned of off 1st + 2nd ed material is a closed system in that I do not really care now what further developments took place in 3rd to 5th. So, yes, I not only will walk away if Wizards does this or that, I already left the building back in 2000 when the last products for 2nd ed were released. |
Edited by - Magor on 16 Apr 2015 21:36:43 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 03:21:22
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There were hit and miss FR products in 1E, 2E and 3E. Nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but there were more than a handful of poor/average products in 1E and 2E for the Realms.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Magor
Acolyte
15 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 08:03:45
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George, I believe I can agree to this: I can think of weak(er) products back in 1st/2nd ed times, but due to overall high standards of quality as well as high quantities in terms of releases it really didn't hurt too much. Also, I always had the feeling that things were in a good fit altogether back then. This is hard to explain, but from the perspective of aesthetics this must be called a holistic approach, I guess. I'm talking about the illustrations, the boxes/covers, the paper, the logos, the density of the text, the typeset, the ratio of material density relative to a given space and why this all worked together for me. Of course, it's the (old) rule system, too, I truly prefer. A friend of mine phrased it like this when we were speaking about 1e+2e vs. 3e-5e: "After 2e it really was just bloat/10". (In the sense you would rate something like "Yes, it's nice, I'll give it a 8,5 out 10".) Just for clarification: I'm not nostalgic for the sake of it, it's more of a matter of self-protection in this case.
Btw.: What do you consider to be the - let's say three - most weak products of the old 1e/2e product line? Just curious...
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 10:35:46
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Hmmm, weak is such an imprecise term. There are products like the Netheril boxed set that failed to live up to potential. The sourcebook FR10 Old Empires that was too much of an Earth analogue where unique "outlander" cultures could have been created. And others that seemed awesome at the time but that were absolutely shown up when they were re-done by someone with a passion for the Realms (FR3 Empires of the Sands - Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea for example). There were other products, which I called "vacuum" products - written with little reference to the lore or with only superficial attempts to make them a part of a cohesive FR whole (FR14 The Great Glacier and Giantcraft, for example). I'm showing my bias here but the best FR products have IMO over the years been written by that holy trinity of Ed Greenwood, Eric Boyd and Steven Schend: and for very different reasons. Ed because of his nuance and always putting in new stuff that made you think about the Realms as a whole, Steven because he created whole cloth that appeared like it had "always been like that" and Eric because he was the master at weaving together a multiplicity of realmslore strands into a shining cohesive whole. Masters all and I stand in awe of them to this day.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 18 Apr 2015 03:03:01 |
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GRYPHON
Senior Scribe
USA
527 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2015 : 18:35:58
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| Yes... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jul 2015 : 20:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Hmmm, weak is such an imprecise term. There are products like the Netheril boxed set that failed to live up to potential. The sourcebook FR10 Old Empires that was too much of an Earth analogue where unique "outlander" cultures could have been created. And others that seemed awesome at the time but that were absolutely shown up when they were re-done by someone with a passion for the Realms (FR3 Empires of the Sands - Lands of Intrigue and Empires of the Shining Sea for example). There were other products, which I called "vacuum" products - written with little reference to the lore or with only superficial attempts to make them a part of a cohesive FR whole (FR14 The Great Glacier and Giantcraft, for example). I'm showing my bias here but the best FR products have IMO over the years been written by that holy trinity of Ed Greenwood, Eric Boyd and Steven Schend: and for very different reasons. Ed because of his nuance and always putting in new stuff that made you think about the Realms as a whole, Steven because he created whole cloth that appeared like it had "always been like that" and Eric because he was the master at weaving together a multiplicity of realmslore strands into a shining cohesive whole. Masters all and I stand in awe of them to this day.
Standing up and applauding at my monitor for this.
And YOU, GK, have certainly earned your place amongst the giants.
So often I see FR material being written and you can just tell that the author had no clue as to the underpinnings of The Realms. They never step back and see the grand tapestry Ed wove with such precision. FR isn't a place you can just grab a corner of and write what you want, just as in the RW you can't just invade and take-over some place you want (at least, no anymore lol). Everything is interconnected, and NOTHING exists in a vacuum. You have to see the complete picture - something very few can discern - before crafting your little piece. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Will you walk away if Wizards doesn't deliver?
